Guest guest Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 I have seen side effects from fu zi that don't go away until the fu zi is discontinued and replaced with a more appropriate formula. In all these cases, the patients didn't have any indications for its use. The practitioner was just in the habit of giving it to everybody. I have tried very small doses of Heiner's Jiangyou fu zi. In one case, a patient who had digestive issues for a decade responded very well to using a gram of a mixture of Jiangyou fu zi, sheng jiang and gan cao, along with her usual regulate qi herbs. There were a few days of mild adverse effects, and then the best results she has seen in years. I tried some of the Jiangyou fu zi on myself. In both cases, I took 1 gram of the extract. It caused severe agitation and irritability. I don't have any indications that I need fu zi, though. I know it seems like I'm stating the obvious, but adverse effects will be more likely if somebody doesn't need fu zi, but they are given it anyway. Oh, and I also like Greta's Shang Han Lun text. Very well written. - Bill Schoenbart , <johnkokko wrote: > > Sharon and Jason... > These are really good questions that would be great to investigate. > Quality and processing is crucial, but so is dosing. > Since this was not even touched on in regular TCM training, I'd like to > really have a good grasp > about the proper dosing of important herbs, such as Fu zi and Chai hu. > > As Heiner wrote in his article, a small dose of Fu zi has been said to bring > the heat up to the upper jiao, > and also guide the herb to the 12 channels. Maybe a small dose (3 gms) in a > formula opens the door to the Ming men, like putting kindle on a fire, > without really stoking it with large logs. In this case, there is light, > but no warmth. The light shows up like heat rising up to the head and the > extremities. > > This might also fit into my question about the small dose of Fu zi in Shen > qi wan (3 gms).... > Maybe a small dose of Fu zi in the formula opens the gate to the Ming men, > so that the other herbs can mix into the cauldron. Otherwise, it's under > lock and key. > As far as I know of, only 1 formula in the Shang han za bing lun has the 3gm > dosage of Fu zi... Shen qi wan. > > Which reflects what my Shang han lun teacher at ACTCM, who grew up in > Sichuan said, > which is a little bit of Fu zi could be just as dangerous as too much. > She has no problem using 15-30 gms for many many cases, but I've never seen > her give less than that. > > K > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Bill, I'm fascinated by the " fire school " philosophy written in Heiner Fruehauf's article that virtually everyone needs some Fu zi because we are constantly losing yang as we age. The issue is when to give it, because if you add fire to fat, you can cause a lot of smoke and stink. So, the metaphor that was given in the article about using Fu zi like playing soccer is a game-changer. Giving Fu zi is like a goal-shot... but it is important to dribble the ball down the field first.. which is moving Qi, Blood, clearing phlegm, damp and water first, before we can situate the ball in the correct position to shoot a goal. The Shang han teacher I had in school said that this is like running hot water in a sink with a clogged drain, because there are dirty dishes that haven't been cleaned yet. As I remember almost every formula was moving Qi and Blood first in order to get to write in Fu zi to the script. K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Nice metaphors... Doug , <johnkokko wrote: > > Bill, > I'm fascinated by the " fire school " philosophy written in Heiner Fruehauf's > article that virtually everyone needs some Fu zi because we are constantly > losing yang as we age. The issue is when to give it, because if you add > fire to fat, you can cause a lot of smoke and stink. So, the metaphor that > was given in the article about using Fu zi like playing soccer is a > game-changer. Giving Fu zi is like a goal-shot... but it is important to > dribble the ball down the field first.. which is moving Qi, Blood, clearing > phlegm, damp and water first, before we can situate the ball in the correct > position to shoot a goal. > > The Shang han teacher I had in school said that this is like running hot > water in a sink with a clogged drain, because there are dirty dishes that > haven't been cleaned yet. As I remember almost every formula was moving Qi > and Blood first in order to get to write in Fu zi to the script. > > K > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 John, I think that's a good strategy, but I have my doubts whether " everybody " needs some fu zi. If there are no indications at all, it shouldn't be used, IMO. - Bill , <johnkokko wrote: > > Bill, > I'm fascinated by the " fire school " philosophy written in Heiner Fruehauf's > article that virtually everyone needs some Fu zi because we are constantly > losing yang as we age. The issue is when to give it, because if you add > fire to fat, you can cause a lot of smoke and stink. So, the metaphor that > was given in the article about using Fu zi like playing soccer is a > game-changer. Giving Fu zi is like a goal-shot... but it is important to > dribble the ball down the field first.. which is moving Qi, Blood, clearing > phlegm, damp and water first, before we can situate the ball in the correct > position to shoot a goal. > > The Shang han teacher I had in school said that this is like running hot > water in a sink with a clogged drain, because there are dirty dishes that > haven't been cleaned yet. As I remember almost every formula was moving Qi > and Blood first in order to get to write in Fu zi to the script. > > K > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 I've got Heiner scheduled to teach in my program in feb. He will definitely be covering his fu zi theories. i'll let you know.... Cara On Dec 21, 2009, at 2:58 PM, bill_schoenbart wrote: > John, > > I think that's a good strategy, but I have my doubts whether " everybody " needs some fu zi. If there are no indications at all, it shouldn't be used, IMO. > > - Bill > > , <johnkokko wrote: > > > > Bill, > > I'm fascinated by the " fire school " philosophy written in Heiner Fruehauf's > > article that virtually everyone needs some Fu zi because we are constantly > > losing yang as we age. The issue is when to give it, because if you add > > fire to fat, you can cause a lot of smoke and stink. So, the metaphor that > > was given in the article about using Fu zi like playing soccer is a > > game-changer. Giving Fu zi is like a goal-shot... but it is important to > > dribble the ball down the field first.. which is moving Qi, Blood, clearing > > phlegm, damp and water first, before we can situate the ball in the correct > > position to shoot a goal. > > > > The Shang han teacher I had in school said that this is like running hot > > water in a sink with a clogged drain, because there are dirty dishes that > > haven't been cleaned yet. As I remember almost every formula was moving Qi > > and Blood first in order to get to write in Fu zi to the script. > > > > K > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 You'll enjoy his classes on Gu syndrome and his take on Fu Zi. I just disagree with the idea to give it to everybody. - Bill , cara <herbbabe wrote: > > I've got Heiner scheduled to teach in my program in feb. He will definitely be covering his fu zi theories. i'll let you know.... > > Cara > > On Dec 21, 2009, at 2:58 PM, bill_schoenbart wrote: > > > John, > > > > I think that's a good strategy, but I have my doubts whether " everybody " needs some fu zi. If there are no indications at all, it shouldn't be used, IMO. > > > > - Bill > > > > , <johnkokko@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > > I'm fascinated by the " fire school " philosophy written in Heiner Fruehauf's > > > article that virtually everyone needs some Fu zi because we are constantly > > > losing yang as we age. The issue is when to give it, because if you add > > > fire to fat, you can cause a lot of smoke and stink. So, the metaphor that > > > was given in the article about using Fu zi like playing soccer is a > > > game-changer. Giving Fu zi is like a goal-shot... but it is important to > > > dribble the ball down the field first.. which is moving Qi, Blood, clearing > > > phlegm, damp and water first, before we can situate the ball in the correct > > > position to shoot a goal. > > > > > > The Shang han teacher I had in school said that this is like running hot > > > water in a sink with a clogged drain, because there are dirty dishes that > > > haven't been cleaned yet. As I remember almost every formula was moving Qi > > > and Blood first in order to get to write in Fu zi to the script. > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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