+Wines

[Guest guest]

Karen, thank you for the in depth distinctions. While I wholeheartedly

agree that there is a real difference in choosing one extractor over the

other, it does very much seem to be ignored on the herbal shop shelves.

I think Michael Moore's site had a database on the value of the

different extractors and the percentages that were needed. Maybe it is

just my poor eyesight but I really fail to see those differences played

on the shelves.

 

Again, I do agree in the differences. We do know today that they create

a difference. My question was twofold. 1) did the Ancients realize those

differnces and 2) if those dinstinctions are imporatnt why do we not see

them on the store shelves?

 

What we see on the shelves and reading from the labels is that 'they "

are all effective. They all work, and if they all work what then can be

the difference?

 

For a young herbalist, there exists so many possibilites it is literally

mind boggling. Preparation Time or pharamcy set up then add patient

compliance, and then your competition hands them a bottle off the shelf

- that works " just as well "

 

Ed

 

 

, Karen Vaughan

<creationsgarden1 wrote:

>

> Ed,

>

> It certainly isn't true that alcohol is chosen as the menstrum for

legal

> other than medicinal reasons. Alcohol is superior at extracting most

> herbs compared to vinegar, glycerin or honey. You get a greater

> medicinal output for any given amount of herbs. Herbs whose medicinal

> action comes from resins or terpenes require high alcohol

> concentrations. Further compared to water extractions alcohol is 30%

> more absorbed. Much of the alcohol goes into tissue long before it

hits

> the liver, carrying the medicine in and invigorating the blood.

>

> Alcohol needs to be tempered with about 10% glycerin when the herbs

are

> very astringent with tannins. And it cannot be used to stabilize

> pectin-rich decoctions because it will cause gelling which locks up

> constituents. Alcohol will not extract the medicinal mushrooms- the

> chitin must be broken down by long decoction- but it can be used post

> decoction to extract terpenes, to stabilize the decoction and to

> increase assimilation.

>

> Vinegar is used when you want to astringe tissues, but it must be used

> at a greater dosage than a medicinal wine because it extracts less

> well. On those herbs which are not antimicrobial, a live vinegar may

> possibly increase assimilation over a pasteurized vinegar- but because

> the bacteria could also break down the herbs I'd want to find some

> traditional use or at least experimentation. Antimicrobial herbs will

> probably kill off any vinegar bacteria, but you get a moderate

> extraction with vinegar.

>

> Honey helps the Spleen assimilate the herbs, although as an extraction

> medium it isn't great. I mostly use it when I am making syrups and may

> add alcohol extracts. It also takes a larger dosage. Honey can also be

> used for medicinal jams as it is in Ayurveda. In this case it is less

> useful for extraction than for preservation and assimilation.

>

> For topical use, the menstrum (egg white, vinegar, alcohol,

turpentine)

> carries the herbs to different levels of the body.

>

> --

> Karen Vaughan, MSTOM

> Licensed Acupuncturist, and Herbalist

> 253 Garfield Place

> Brooklyn, NY 11215

>

> (718) 622-6755

>

> Co-Conspirator to Make the World A Better Place: Visit

http://www.heroicstories.com/ and join the conspiracy

> See my Acupuncture and Herbalism website at:

http://www.acupuncturebrooklyn.com

>

> Eric, thanks for the comparisons. Vinegars are also used in

> medicinals. I understand the differences in shelf life and preparation

> of the varios solvents. But I am interested more in the rationale. The

> Ancients had choices. Why chose alcohol, vinegar, honey, or a powder ?

>

>

>

> In the United States alcohol is the choice - the industry standard -

> becasue of legal issues and not medicinal considerations. Of course

not

> counting pills, capsules or granuales which I throw into the 'powder'

> catagory.

>

>

>

> Ed Kasper > formulas ( " hit medicine, " common in the martial arts).

Honey and

> molasses are more common in cough syrups, and these sugars often fail

> to deliver the shelf life that alcohol has to offer.

[Guest guest]

--- On Sun, 2/28/10, happyherbalist2001 <eddy wrote:

 

happyherbalist2001 <eddy

+Re: Wines

 

Sunday, February 28, 2010, 8:17 AM

 

 

 

>For a young herbalist, there exists so many possibilites it is literally

>mind boggling. Preparation Time or pharamcy set up then add patient

>compliance, and then your competition hands them a bottle off the shelf

>- that works " just as well "

 

 

Ed, I can think of 2 differences right off hand. 1. It's costs less to make your

own (more profit) and 2. you can modify the tincture to fit the clients need.I

wrote the Tincture Calculator (a software product) it helps save prep time, it

frees herbalists from the math. The formulas were from " Making Plant Medicine "

by Richo Cech. Richo was the process manager at the Herb Pharm in Williams,

Oregon for 11 years. The majority of the formulas listed in this program were

formerly official preparations listed in several U.S.P. and National Formulary

(N.F.) volumes from 1906-1930, and King's American Dispensatory (1915). This was

the peak period for the Eclectic's in the U.S. These formulas do take into

account the fine subtleties of using the correct strength of alcohol, glycerine

and acidic acid (vinegar) to extract and protect particular components from the

plants.I think when an herbalist makes a point of explaining that this is the

difference between

their product and those on the shelf it helps create a understanding that it's

special, it's based on science, experience and was made  personally not mass

produced by someone just doing a job.Also, a good reference for combining

tinctures is " Therapeutic Herb Manual " by Ed Smith. Ed has been an herbalist for

30+ years and is the owner of the Herb Pharm.

Patrick._,___