Guest guest Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Not clear why you say yang xu? Can you explain or give more info? -Jason On Behalf Of Yamin Chehin L.Ac., Dipl OM Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:15 PM Chronic hoarseness. Dear practitioners, This is a 60 year old male with chronic hoarseness. His description of the condition is a “feeling of a raw chestâ€. He says that he feels like coughing up phlegm, though nothing comes out. Other symptoms include: enlarged prostate, some feet tingling (only one sided) and stabbing headaches over left eye (also chronic). The patient had a motorcycle accident when he was in his 20’s and has a scar over the left eye. My diagnosis is: Kidney yang Xu with dry phlegm. I gave him Bei mu gua lou san modified with yang tonics. Only little relief was observed. cThe condition has gotten worse in the past month. I’d appreciate your input Thank you! Yamin Chehin L.Ac.; Dipl O.M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 I'm not sure that Yang Xu would present in this type of hoarseness so even if it underlying I wouldn't attempt to treat it now. In other words, its neither here nor there. Bei Mu Gua Lou is a good first choice from what you've said. The choices now are if its a Ban Xia Hou Po Tang (liver qi) or truly stuck phlegm or your original choice in a bigger quantity. If its really true (potentially visible) phlegm you could try something like Zhu Li Da Tan Wan. If scours more of the phlegm out. I would listen to the sound of the cough, you often can hear the raspiness of phlegm. Practically, you can try cupping or gua sha the back. Is he taking High Blood pressure medication? Often this gives a dry cough that we can't touch in my experience. Doug , " " wrote: > > Not clear why you say yang xu? Can you explain or give more info? > > > > -Jason > > Dear practitioners, > > This is a 60 year old male with chronic hoarseness. His description of the condition is a “feeling of a raw chestâ€. He says that he feels like coughing up phlegm, though nothing comes out. > > Other symptoms include: enlarged prostate, some feet tingling (only one sided) and stabbing headaches over left eye (also chronic). The patient had a motorcycle accident when he was in his 20’s and has a scar over the left eye. > > My diagnosis is: Kidney yang Xu with dry phlegm. I gave him Bei mu gua lou san modified with yang tonics. Only little relief was observed. cThe condition has gotten worse in the past month. > > I’d appreciate your input > > Thank you! > > Yamin Chehin L.Ac.; Dipl O.M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 have you considered that this might be caused by reflux? Cara On Apr 1, 2010, at 3:12 AM, wrote: > I'm not sure that Yang Xu would present in this type of hoarseness so even if it underlying I wouldn't attempt to treat it now. In other words, its neither here nor there. Bei Mu Gua Lou is a good first choice from what you've said. The choices now are if its a Ban Xia Hou Po Tang (liver qi) or truly stuck phlegm or your original choice in a bigger quantity. If its really true (potentially visible) phlegm you could try something like Zhu Li Da Tan Wan. If scours more of the phlegm out. > I would listen to the sound of the cough, you often can hear the raspiness of phlegm. > Practically, you can try cupping or gua sha the back. > Is he taking High Blood pressure medication? Often this gives a dry cough that we can't touch in my experience. > Doug > > , " " wrote: > > > > Not clear why you say yang xu? Can you explain or give more info? > > > > > > > > -Jason > > > > > Dear practitioners, > > > > This is a 60 year old male with chronic hoarseness. His description of the condition is a “feeling of a raw chest”. He says that he feels like coughing up phlegm, though nothing comes out. > > > > Other symptoms include: enlarged prostate, some feet tingling (only one sided) and stabbing headaches over left eye (also chronic). The patient had a motorcycle accident when he was in his 20’s and has a scar over the left eye. > > > > My diagnosis is: Kidney yang Xu with dry phlegm. I gave him Bei mu gua lou san modified with yang tonics. Only little relief was observed. cThe condition has gotten worse in the past month. > > > > I’d appreciate your input > > > > Thank you! > > > > Yamin Chehin L.Ac.; Dipl O.M > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 The single herb Luo han guo could be useful in this kind of situation. It's made in cubes 95% luo han guo, 5% sugar to drink as a tea a few times daily. Just a symptomatic treatment for that, without a full diagnosis, plus it tastes good. What about pang da hai? http://www.yinyanghouse.com/theory/herbalmedicine/pang_da_hai_tcm_herbal_databas\ e It's the famous herb used for singers and teachers with hoarse voices.... K > > > > > > > > Dear practitioners, > > > > > > This is a 60 year old male with chronic hoarseness. His description of > the condition is a “feeling of a raw chest”. He says that he feels like > coughing up phlegm, though nothing comes out. > > > > > > Other symptoms include: enlarged prostate, some feet tingling (only one > sided) and stabbing headaches over left eye (also chronic). The patient had > a motorcycle accident when he was in his 20’s and has a scar over the left > eye. > > > > > > My diagnosis is: Kidney yang Xu with dry phlegm. I gave him Bei mu gua > lou san modified with yang tonics. Only little relief was observed. cThe > condition has gotten worse in the past month. > > > > > > I’d appreciate your input > > > > > > Thank you! > > > > > > Yamin Chehin L.Ac.; Dipl O.M > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 I will take your word for it that the signs of Yang Vacuity exist. That being true, I would also accept your diagnosis of dry phlegm (in the lungs I assume, rather than system wide). I interpret your dry phlegm diagnosis to mean there is heat in the lungs. So we have the common problem of Heat above - Cold below. I would suggest ignoring the Yang Xu for the most part until the lung condition is resolved. My reasoning is that the Yang Xu is not directly supporting the lung condition. I suspect that there is some qi vacuity that goes along with this making the bei mu gua lou san less than optimal. Bei mu gua lou san is definitely a good first try though. I would stick with that approach but switch to bu fei tang with some xing ren added. The herbs in that formula will drive the qi upwards to the lungs and the moisture will follow. I wouldn't think your first approach to be wrong, it sounds like solid reasoning, when a patient gets worse that is not always a sign of misdiagnosis, sometimes a condition is gradually worsening and will continue to do so regardless of our interventions. ~Mark Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Thank you much for your comments!. Patient presents with Kidney Yang vacuity, to answer that question though he's had hoarsness on and off for the past 20yrs. Albuterol was the med recommended by his MD and is not doing the trick. There is no visible phlegm he does not hear it rattle in the chest either, but he has the subjective feeling of some phlegm sitting deep in his chest. I will try the Pang Dai hai as a branch treatment and play around with the formulas suggested. I truly appreciate your time! Yamin Chehin L.Ac.; Dipl O.M http://www.healingcycles.net 310-280-0438 Office hours: Mondays 1 to 7pm, Wednesdays 8am to 7pm, Fridays and Saturdays 9am to 7pm. The contents of this email and any attachments to it, contain confidential and/or legally privileged information from Healing Cycles. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. On Behalf Of Thursday, April 01, 2010 4:56 AM Re: Chronic hoarseness. The single herb Luo han guo could be useful in this kind of situation. It's made in cubes 95% luo han guo, 5% sugar to drink as a tea a few times daily. Just a symptomatic treatment for that, without a full diagnosis, plus it tastes good. What about pang da hai? http://www.yinyanghouse.com/theory/herbalmedicine/pang_da_hai_tcm_herbal_dat abase It's the famous herb used for singers and teachers with hoarse voices.... K > > > > > > > > Dear practitioners, > > > > > > This is a 60 year old male with chronic hoarseness. His description of > the condition is a " feeling of a raw chest " . He says that he feels like > coughing up phlegm, though nothing comes out. > > > > > > Other symptoms include: enlarged prostate, some feet tingling (only one > sided) and stabbing headaches over left eye (also chronic). The patient had > a motorcycle accident when he was in his 20's and has a scar over the left > eye. > > > > > > My diagnosis is: Kidney yang Xu with dry phlegm. I gave him Bei mu gua > lou san modified with yang tonics. Only little relief was observed. cThe > condition has gotten worse in the past month. > > > > > > I'd appreciate your input > > > > > > Thank you! > > > > > > Yamin Chehin L.Ac.; Dipl O.M > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 One other thing to evaluate is the numbness and tingling sensations. Chronic hoarseness and things like numbness / stumbling can be a possible precursor to something like ALS - but I hope it's just a side effect of a blood pressure medicine. Geoff , " Yamin Chehin L.Ac., Dipl OM " <sanaselena wrote: > > Thank you much for your comments!. > > Patient presents with Kidney Yang vacuity, to answer that question though > he's had hoarsness on and off for the past 20yrs. Albuterol was the med > recommended by his MD and is not doing the trick. There is no visible > phlegm he does not hear it rattle in the chest either, but he has the > subjective feeling of some phlegm sitting deep in his chest. I will try the > Pang Dai hai as a branch treatment and play around with the formulas > suggested. I truly appreciate your time! > > Yamin Chehin L.Ac.; Dipl O.M > http://www.healingcycles.net > 310-280-0438 > Office hours: > Mondays 1 to 7pm, > Wednesdays 8am to 7pm, > Fridays and Saturdays 9am to 7pm. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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