Guest guest Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 I just happened to be reviewing si ni san in F & S. on the top of pg. 117 they describe chai hu: " Because the condition is due to constraint and stagnation of the qi mechanism, its primary focus is to regulate the qi by venting heat and releasing constraint. Chai hu performs both of these functions well and is therefore the chief herb. through it's action on the lesser yang, it facilitates both the ascent of clear yang and the descent of turbid yin, as explained in the Explanation of the classic of materia medica: Chai hu is clear and light, ascending and spreading out the GB qi. when the GB thrusts outward, the other 12 organs follow its dissipating transformation. thus is is able to disperse any clumped qi in the epigastrium, abdomen, intestine and stomach. " Anyway Jason-I thought you might appreciate the reference to descending the turbid. Hope this helps. Cara On Apr 5, 2010, at 9:30 AM, wrote: > Hhuuhh??? Unless I missed a crucial email, I have yet to see any source (provided by John or anyone else) that states chai hu is descending. Which is BTW the original point in this thread. If I missed it please re-send this. > > Stephan W. not sure of your question / confusion, I was just quoting straight from ZJY which of course you brought up, no? Please clarify the confusion. > > - > > On Behalf Of stephen woodley > Sunday, April 04, 2010 6:59 PM > > RE: Bitter (con't) > > Since Kokko is back in the mix and provided a source - I'll step > back for the time being, although it is fun > > confused and curious on one point, though - > > Jasen: > > BTW – Bitter and warming medicinal are ren shen, fu zi, gan > jiang, wu zhu > yu and rou gui. Certainly not descending herbs. > > Ren shen = sweet > > Fu Zi = acrid > > Gan Jiang = acrid > > Wu zhu yu = acrid > > Rou gui = ? don’t see that in SNBCJ > > Gui = acrid > > Didn't all of this start with an insomnia case 3 weeks ago? If I > had known that teasing Kokko would cause this... > > Stephen Woodley LAc > > www.shanghanlunseminars.com > > -- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 Cara, Thanks for the post, I am also aware of this passage in Scheid and Bensky. However if we look close it says, " Chai hu is clear and light, ascending and spreading out the GB qi " it only FACILITATES the descent of turbid yin. This is the exact mechanism I outlined in a post last week and is no different than mechanism of action for formulas such as Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang. That is, when one raises the clear yang it *facilitates* the descent of turbid yin. This passage is NOT saying that chai hu is fundamentally descending. It is saying chai hu has a secondary result of descending turbid yin. This is well known action of most ascending yang herbs. This also should be very clear from reading the whole description of si ni san. Actually this is clear here because after this " facilitation " quote it spells it out by saying, " Chai hu is clear and light, ascending and spreading... " -Jason On Behalf Of cara Monday, April 05, 2010 8:31 AM Re: Chai hu = descending? I just happened to be reviewing si ni san in F & S. on the top of pg. 117 they describe chai hu: " Because the condition is due to constraint and stagnation of the qi mechanism, its primary focus is to regulate the qi by venting heat and releasing constraint. Chai hu performs both of these functions well and is therefore the chief herb. through it's action on the lesser yang, it facilitates both the ascent of clear yang and the descent of turbid yin, as explained in the Explanation of the classic of materia medica: Chai hu is clear and light, ascending and spreading out the GB qi. when the GB thrusts outward, the other 12 organs follow its dissipating transformation. thus is is able to disperse any clumped qi in the epigastrium, abdomen, intestine and stomach. " Anyway Jason-I thought you might appreciate the reference to descending the turbid. Hope this helps. Cara On Apr 5, 2010, at 9:30 AM, wrote: e 04/05/10 00:32:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 yes- I saw that too. that is different than actually descending. I almost didn't post it for that reason, but since there was a remote possibility that it would be helpful to you, I went ahead.... Cara O. Frank, R. OM Six Fishes China Herb Company Chinese Herb Department Tai Sophia Institute www.carafrank.com 215-772-0770 On Apr 5, 2010, at 10:55 AM, wrote: > Cara, > > Thanks for the post, I am also aware of this passage in Scheid and Bensky. > However if we look close it says, " Chai hu is clear and light, ascending and > spreading out the GB qi " it only FACILITATES the descent of turbid yin. This > is the exact mechanism I outlined in a post last week and is no different > than mechanism of action for formulas such as Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang. That is, > when one raises the clear yang it *facilitates* the descent of turbid yin. > > This passage is NOT saying that chai hu is fundamentally descending. It is > saying chai hu has a secondary result of descending turbid yin. This is well > known action of most ascending yang herbs. This also should be very clear > from reading the whole description of si ni san. Actually this is clear here > because after this " facilitation " quote it spells it out by saying, " Chai > hu is clear and light, ascending and spreading... " > > -Jason > > > > On Behalf Of cara > Monday, April 05, 2010 8:31 AM > > Re: Chai hu = descending? > > I just happened to be reviewing si ni san in F & S. on the top of pg. 117 > they describe chai hu: > " Because the condition is due to constraint and stagnation of the qi > mechanism, its primary focus is to regulate the qi by venting heat and > releasing constraint. Chai hu performs both of these functions well and is > therefore the chief herb. through it's action on the lesser yang, it > facilitates both the ascent of clear yang and the descent of turbid yin, as > explained in the Explanation of the classic of materia medica: Chai hu is > clear and light, ascending and spreading out the GB qi. when the GB thrusts > outward, the other 12 organs follow its dissipating transformation. thus is > is able to disperse any clumped qi in the epigastrium, abdomen, intestine > and stomach. " > > Anyway Jason-I thought you might appreciate the reference to descending the > turbid. Hope this helps. > > Cara > On Apr 5, 2010, at 9:30 AM, wrote: > > e 04/05/10 00:32:00 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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