Guest guest Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 Yehuda, You are correct, huang qin and ban zhi lian are in the same family (Lamiaceae or mint). They are also in the same genus, scutellaria, which is a much closer relationship. There are many scutellarias used in medicine. Scutellaria lateriflora is a famous one from the US, which I wrote about in my book. I have seen about a dozen species in my travels in China and am familiar with about 6 species in Western North America (I have used several of them). To my knowledge, huang qin is the only species that the root is used. Generally the plants in this genus have very small thin roots so this species (HQ) is, if not unique, pretty special (botanically speaking). I have a species (sorry I forget which one at the moment) growing on my balcony from seeds I collected at the Great Wall. It has emerged just recently (we are finally starting to get some SLIGHTLY warmer weather here in Beijing). Many of the species look very similar and I suspect that there are actually many species used as ban zhi lian (I'm not sure what is in the literature off-hand). A couple of the species I have used from California/Oregon are pretty bitter and mighty tasty, more bitter than ban zhi lian, and I would really like to get some work done on it at some point. I have been using one of them (S. californica) since the early 90's and suspect that research would put it pretty high on the list. It will be in the next volume of my book but unfortunately it is not available commercially, though it is pretty common and easy to cultivate. However, it is native to mountain slopes, meadows, and stream sides so the elevation may be important for its potency. In Good health, Thomas wrote: > > Ban Zhi Lian is in the family of Huang Qin to the best of recollection.  It is a Dui Yao which is often used with bai hua she she cao in formulas that treat toxic damp heat as in patients with cancer, tumors or undergoing radiation therapy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Thomas, There is a gentleman, David Valdez I believe, who is doing his Master's research at SFSU on California native Scute, and specifically their biochemical similarity to ban zhi lian which has so much literature on its applications in treatment of various cancers. I don't know what he has published on the topic yet but when I talked to him he had done the HPLC and found many to be remarkably similar. He had personally identified and collected all the species in the state. Quite a feat as you know they can be a dickens to key out. As people on this list who haven't read your book may not know is that in Western herbal medicine this is a profound calm spirit herb. In your translations of Chinese materia medica have you found any applications that relate to this?Ben tag.plantgeek Wed, 21 Apr 2010 01:38:14 +0000 was H. pylori now Scutellaria Yehuda, You are correct, huang qin and ban zhi lian are in the same family (Lamiaceae or mint). They are also in the same genus, scutellaria, which is a much closer relationship. There are many scutellarias used in medicine. Scutellaria lateriflora is a famous one from the US, which I wrote about in my book. I have seen about a dozen species in my travels in China and am familiar with about 6 species in Western North America (I have used several of them). To my knowledge, huang qin is the only species that the root is used. Generally the plants in this genus have very small thin roots so this species (HQ) is, if not unique, pretty special (botanically speaking). I have a species (sorry I forget which one at the moment) growing on my balcony from seeds I collected at the Great Wall. It has emerged just recently (we are finally starting to get some SLIGHTLY warmer weather here in Beijing). Many of the species look very similar and I suspect that there are actually many species used as ban zhi lian (I'm not sure what is in the literature off-hand). A couple of the species I have used from California/Oregon are pretty bitter and mighty tasty, more bitter than ban zhi lian, and I would really like to get some work done on it at some point. I have been using one of them (S. californica) since the early 90's and suspect that research would put it pretty high on the list. It will be in the next volume of my book but unfortunately it is not available commercially, though it is pretty common and easy to cultivate. However, it is native to mountain slopes, meadows, and stream sides so the elevation may be important for its potency. In Good health, Thomas wrote: > > Ban Zhi Lian is in the family of Huang Qin to the best of recollection.  It is a Dui Yao which is often used with bai hua she she cao in formulas that treat toxic damp heat as in patients with cancer, tumors or undergoing radiation therapy. _______________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en\ -US:WM_HMP:042010_1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2010 Report Share Posted April 22, 2010 Ben, That is extremely interesting to me. I would love to get in contact with Mr. Valdez, if you have his contact info please ask him if it is ok if you forward it to me, or you can give him mine and ask him to contact me. I don't remember ever seeing anything in the Chinese literature about a quieting spirit action, although I will have to take a look. I translated some highlights of a couple species in the S. lateriflora monograph of my book and I don't remember ever seeing anything in this vein. Michael, many of the native species are quite different from the mid-west/eastern species most people use, in fact, their morphology is also quite different, growing much more like ban zhi lian. They are more bitter and acrid (significantly so) and I suspect have a much stronger heat clearing/resolve toxin action as well. I believe they are quite different in action and there are some significant differences among the native California species as well. For example, S. california and S. antirrhinoides are quite similar while S. galericulata and S. bolanderi are similar and I think more like S. lateriflora (our most commonly used species from the mid-west and east). It is a fascinating study and I look forward to some day getting back to the area where I can continue to use these wonderful gems. So, while I don't totally disagree with your premise I am not totally supportive of it and this is why. I find that the more bitter species, i.e. S. californica and S. antirrhinoides are less spirit quieting than S. lateriflora, but I think they are more heat clearing/toxin resolving. Now I could be wrong and others have reported strong spirit quieting action with these species, so there certainly is nothing set in stone. I think that in the case of S. lateriflora being so well understood as a quieting spirit herb speaks to something different happening than resolving toxin, especially since it is not used so much to resolve toxin. What do you think? In Good Health, Thomas ben zappin <btz23 wrote: > > Thomas, There is a gentleman, David Valdez I believe, who is doing his Master's research at SFSU on California native Scute, and specifically their biochemical similarity to ban zhi lian which has so much literature on its applications in treatment of various cancers. I don't know what he has published on the topic yet but when I talked to him he had done the HPLC and found many to be remarkably similar. He had personally identified and collected all the species in the state. Quite a feat as you know they can be a dickens to key out. > As people on this list who haven't read your book may not know is that in Western herbal medicine this is a profound calm spirit herb. In your translations of Chinese materia medica have you found any applications that relate to this?Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 Hi, yeah I know David, the fellow studying the scutellaria, but I dont think his last name is Valdez. It may be Garcia or Rodriguez. When I first met him a few years ago he was very close to Christopher Hobbs. I bet Christopher would have his contact info.,,Matt Haug LAc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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