Thanks for the invite

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:44:36 -0500, you wrote:

 

 

>

>I do have a couple of questions that perhaps someone from the group can

>address. I'm not a vegan. I don't eat chicken or fish but do eat dairy

>products and eggs. I lived around cows all my life. I don't see anything

>wrong with consuming dairy products since cows have a good life--at least

>all the dairy cows I've ever seen.. I've also lived around chickens and

>don't have a problem with eating eggs, however, I've heard, through word of

>mouth, that chickens are treated poorly and they certainly seem to live in a

>small confined area, but then so do other caged birds. I've also heard that

>chickens are given electric shocks in order to get them to lay eggs. Do you

>have any information on this?

 

Commercial chicken raising is extremely cruel, IMHO, but I

never read anything about electric shocks. The chickens are

confined in terribly small cages though.

 

I think the 'electric shocks' might be a confusion with

'electric light' - chickens are often provided electric

light during the short days of winter - otherwise, they

mostly stop laying in the dead of winter. (I've had

chickens, so I know this is true.) This - in and of itself

- I wouldn't think of as cruel. But the conditions under

which commercial egg farmers raise their chickens ARE

exceedingly cruel.

 

If you live in or near the country, it's generally easy to

avoid dealing with commercial (factory farming) chicken

raising as one can generally ask around and locate a local

person who keeps hens and sells eggs. We buy our eggs from

a local farmer: we can see the chickens running around in

the sunshine leading good chicken-lives. And the eggs

are ever so much better too.

 

I see you live in Kentucky: surely there's someone around

who will sell eggs? If you don't know of anyone, you could

ask at your natural food store or co-op (assuming there's

one somewhere around where you live). Natural food stores

and/or co-ops often sell free-range eggs. If truthful, the

'free-range' part means the chickens could run around

outdoors, probably in an enclosure, but that's OK. If you

work in a big office or other organization, you could even

ask around there: every large place I've ever worked always

had at least one person who brought in and sold eggs.

 

 

>I'm not sure I could avoid eating eggs since

>they are used for so many different products but did want to have more

>information. Like I said, I don't cook much and rely on many prepared

>foods. Of course I always check to be sure there was no meat products used.

>I was also wondering about the use of leather. I have a leather chair that

>I bought many years ago that seems somewhat inappropriate for a vegetarian.

>It was an expensive chair and I guess I feel a little guilty. I don't buy

>anything leather or made from animal skins now but curious as to what others

>have done who have chosen to become vegetarian. This message turned out to

>be a lot longer than I anticipated and apologize for the length and any

>misspelling. Thanks again for inviting me to join.

 

I think that worrying about using leather - while the USA

and other developed countries practice such exceedingly

cruel factory farming - is like rearranging the deck chairs

on the Titanic as it sinks....

 

Especially since you already HAVE the chair: no animal will

be helped by your getting rid of the chair now. Conversely,

no animal will be harmed by your keeping the chair now.

(Just IMHO.)

 

Cheers,

Pat

 

--

Pat Meadows

 

CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY

United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/

International: http://www.thehungersite.com/

[Guest guest]

Warm welcome, Richard. I am glad you chose to join us. You ask some

very

good questions.

 

First off, like you I was raised around small dairy farms out in the

country. I

knew the cows lived wonderful lives, and I even would go out hiking

in thier

fields, pet them, help the farmer herd them in etc. My mom tells me

now how

nervous I made her then b/c she would always see little me walking

around

these huge cows, just " communing with them " . *lol* I do now buy only

milk

from sources where I know they use milk from smaller farms. Pretty

much

the same with eggs. My dad held a second job driving an egg delivery

truck

for a local egg/chicken farmer. I used to go there with him and see

the

chickens and I knew they were treated well. I buy free-range eggs now

from a

local farm market. Just driving around my community I see many little

wooden signs at the ends of driveways advertising they sell fresh

eggs. You

should be able to find someone around who sells them. Alison and Pat

gave

good suggestions for that.

 

I also agree with some of what Pat said about your chair. She makes

an

excellent point about how you bought the chair before you developed

these

ethical thoughts. However, I also agree with Gene that if it causes

you some

guilt or discomfort now, perhaps you should decide how to handle it.

I can tell you what I would do personally, but only you can decide

for yourself.

If I had a leather chair I bought prior to becoming a vegetarian, I

think would

keep it. I would feel that ridding of it, destroying it or whatever

would only

assuage my guilt a bit, and I would feel better if I honored the

memory of the

animal who died by enjoying it instead. I would probably have to do

some

kind of ritual or cerimony in honor of the animal done with the

intent of

clearing any negativity or guilt feelings, and honoring the divine in

the

creature who died to make the chair. I might even pause each time I

sat in it

to be thankful for it.... but that's just me. Like I said, you will

need to

determine for yourself how to best handle it for you. Interesting

topic to

ponder. Namaste.

 

~ P_T ~

 

Never try and teach a pig to sing: it's a waste of time, and it

annoys the pig.

--Robert A. Heinlein

~~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~>

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the list, Joseph.

How long have you been a vegetarian?

I hope you enjoy your time spent here.

 

~ PT ~

 

Turn yourself not away from three best things:

Good Thought, Good Word and Good Deed.

~ Zoroaster (B.C. 628-551)

~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~~~~~~~~>

, Joseph <

scorpio_tiger_60609> wrote:

> Good Morning,

>

> This is Just a note to introduce myself.

> My name is Joseph.

> I am employed as a chief engineer.

> I'm near midway & dwntwn.

>

> If you would like to converse please email me and

> I will send you my phone number or we may talk online.

>

> Have a really great weekend.

>

> Big Huggs, Joseph

>

>

>

> Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more

> http://tax.

[Guest guest]

Hello to the group!

I am Paul Harmon, new to the group. My wife Becky and I live in

Bayonet Point, Florida. We are both members of the Seventh-day

Adventist Church. I am also a Colonel with the US Disaster Relief

Command.

I want to thank the moderator for inviting us to join this group,

and look forward to seeing your ideas for veggie cooking.

Paul & Becky Harmon

kc8npa

Bayonet Point, Florida

[Guest guest]

Welcome Paul!!! I also am very happy to have been invited to this wonderful

group!! Currently I am working on a cookbook with a group of friends. The book

is just a friendship exchange between a number of friends and while the book

includes meat dishes the group has created a special vegitarian section just

because of me. I will enjoy sharing with all of you the many recipes i have

been lucky to receive. I am a kosher keeping jewish woman, so vegitarian makes

it easy for me to enjoy dinner with friends both here where I live and the cyber

world of . I bid you peace......B " Shalom, ChanaRivka