mock meat, mock shrimp

[Guest guest]

chinese buddhist vegetarian " meat " is made from yuba,

the skin formed on soy milk when tofu is made. it's

cheap and readily available in chinese markets, either

as sheets or as rolls. just soak or boil in water to

reconstitute. it has a lovely bland, milky flavor -- i

love the stuff.

 

konnkyaku is japanese, often found in the refrigerated

section near the tofu in asian markets. it's some kind

of amazing substance (alum root? i can't remember)

that has no calories or nutrients; it's used widely in

japan in all kinds of forms (including sweetened) to

help with digestion -- kind of like flax seeds are

used here, i suppose. it comes in clear cubes and a

gray-flecked variety; it's also made into noodles,

which make a fantastic calorie-less, no-carb

alternative in asian stir-fries.

 

 

> Message: 3

> Tue, 05 Apr 2005 21:32:52 -0700

> Craig Tompkins <craigtompkins

> Re: Chinese Buddhist " Mock Me@t "

>

> I had lunch at Vegetarian Haven, a wonderful

> restaurant in Toronto last Christmas, and they had

> several mock seafood dishes. The shrimp substitute

> in the salad roll was amazing. I don't know how they

> did it, but I think konyaku was used in some form.

> Does anyone have any ideas?

>

> Cheers,

> Craig

>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

This may be a very stupid question, but if you are a vegetarian why do

you want or need something called " mock meat " ? To me it sounds like you

aren't serious about being a vegetarian, or, at the least, regret it.

Please explain the reasoning behind this.

 

This is a comment from a non-vegetarian, so should be taken as such.

(curious and questioning rather than judgmental or critical)

 

Keiko Ohnuma wrote:

 

>chinese buddhist vegetarian " meat " is made from yuba,

>the skin formed on soy milk when tofu is made. it's

>cheap and readily available in chinese markets, either

>as sheets or as rolls. just soak or boil in water to

>reconstitute. it has a lovely bland, milky flavor -- i

>love the stuff.

>

>konnkyaku is japanese, often found in the refrigerated

>section near the tofu in asian markets. it's some kind

>of amazing substance (alum root? i can't remember)

>that has no calories or nutrients; it's used widely in

>japan in all kinds of forms (including sweetened) to

>help with digestion -- kind of like flax seeds are

>used here, i suppose. it comes in clear cubes and a

>gray-flecked variety; it's also made into noodles,

>which make a fantastic calorie-less, no-carb

>alternative in asian stir-fries.

>

>

>

>

>>Message: 3

>> Tue, 05 Apr 2005 21:32:52 -0700

>> Craig Tompkins <craigtompkins

>>Re: Chinese Buddhist " Mock Me@t "

>>

>>I had lunch at Vegetarian Haven, a wonderful

>>restaurant in Toronto last Christmas, and they had

>>several mock seafood dishes. The shrimp substitute

>>in the salad roll was amazing. I don't know how they

>>did it, but I think konyaku was used in some form.

>>Does anyone have any ideas?

>>

>>Cheers,

>>Craig

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

People who have been raised as vegetarians from birth (millions of Indian Hindus

would fall into that category, like me) would simply never imagine eating

non-veg food. They also would not understand why anybody would want to make

vegetarian food that tastes like meat - and even less understand why vegetarians

would eat it

 

But I guess people who used to be non-vegetarians crave the taste of meat, even

if they dont eat meat any more (possibly for health reasons). Which is why the

thriving business in mock-meat, vegetarian " sausages " etc.

 

Just my two bits.

 

> : Spotted Dog <spotteddog

>

> Re: mock meat, mock shrimp

> Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:16:12 -0400

 

 

This may be a very stupid question, but if you are a vegetarian why do

you want or need something called " mock meat " ?  To me it sounds like you

aren't serious about being a vegetarian, or, at the least, regret it. 

Please explain the reasoning behind this.

 

This is a comment from a non-vegetarian, so should be taken as such. 

(curious and questioning rather than judgmental or critical)

 

Lycos email has now 300 Megabytes of free storage... Get it now at

mail.lycos.co.uk

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I don't think it's a question of one being serious or not, but it's

something different that the vegetarian market has been flooded with.

20 years ago, you couldn't FIND soymilk at HEB (the main grocery

stores here in central/south texas), much less baked tofu! You HAD to

go to either Whole Foods or SunHarvest for those " specialty items. "

 

Also, when you are in a family of meat eaters, sometimes you can eat

whwhat everyone else is eating. For instance. Hot dogs. A four-year

old likes hot dogs. I can have hot dogs with my bf and his 2 boys...

without the meat, yet we are having (almost) the exact same thing.

I certainly don't crave meat, I never have. (I don't eat fake bacon

and I really don't care for the beef too much, either.) But since the

market allows for these types of foods now, I've tried some of them,

liked some, didn't like others.

 

Hope that helps!

-selena

 

 

, Spotted Dog <spotteddog@t...>

wrote:

> This may be a very stupid question, but if you are a vegetarian why

do

> you want or need something called " mock meat " ? To me it sounds like

you

> aren't serious about being a vegetarian, or, at the least, regret

it.

> Please explain the reasoning behind this.

>

> This is a comment from a non-vegetarian, so should be taken as

such.

> (curious and questioning rather than judgmental or critical)

[Guest guest]

Recipesonly replied as follows to Spotteddog re why vegetarians eat mock meat:

 

> People who have been raised as vegetarians from birth (millions of Indian

Hindus

would fall into that category, like me) would simply never imagine eating

non-veg

food. They also would not understand why anybody would want to make vegetarian

food that tastes like meat - and even less understand why vegetarians would eat

it

 

Some of those who haven't been raised vegetarian from birth also have gone 'off'

the

idea of eating meat to the extent that anything that looks or tastes like it is

disliked

by them. An example: an excellent Thai restaurant near us makes very realistic

mock fish fillets (then cooked Thai style, of course) which even 'flake', mock

duck

complete with fatty 'skin', etc. etc. and knowing that they were completely

vegetarian my dh and I have eaten them - and they were beautifully cooked and as

authentic as we can remember such things being (minus what we used to call the

unpleasant 'after taste'). After a couple of times or so, however, we both found

them

just a little too evocative of eating meat and therefore we do not now order

from that

side of the vegetarian menu but from one of the other two vegetarian menus they

kindly offer: dishes with tofu; dishes with vegetables only - the 'vegetarian'

vegetarian selection LOL. We save the fake meat side of the menu for when we go

there with non-vegetarians (who also like Spotteddog, usually do not understand

the

point of it - so maybe we won't do that any more either!)

 

Others, however, who are vegetarian because they abhor cruelty to animals and

the

killing of their fellow creatures for food, might find that the mock meats both

palatable and guilt free. No one and no thing is harmed by their use after all.

Recipes

only goes on to say:

 

> But I guess people who used to be non-vegetarians crave the taste of meat,

even

if they dont eat meat any more (possibly for health reasons). Which is why the

thriving business in mock-meat, vegetarian " sausages " etc.

 

Yes I think for some people it has been difficult to give up meat - and perhaps

these

fake meats are useful in that way. That's what I'm told anyway. Health

vegetarians

are however in a whole different category.

 

Pat

[Guest guest]

> Also, when you are in a family of meat eaters, sometimes you can eat

> whwhat everyone else is eating. For instance. Hot dogs. A four-year

> old likes hot dogs. I can have hot dogs with my bf and his 2 boys...

> without the meat, yet we are having (almost) the exact same thing.

 

Without wanting to go Off Topic, I note that you can also look at this (at

least) two

ways: 1. fitting in with convenience foods without making a whole big thing of

being

a vegetarian and having to have some seemingly 'difficult' or 'special' and

'attention

getting', or 2. capitulating to common prejudices, which start from birth, about

the

socially right and wrong foods to eat, even leaving the question of health out

of it. (I

think my second suggestion here is however a bit strong and it is definitely OT

for

which I apologize.)

 

Pat

[Guest guest]

I was raise on meat and had no idea what I was eating

when I learned about veal I refused to eat it

my mother made a stuffed veal pocket that was unbelievable

and the memory of us together looking at each other

brings these meal of togethgerness back

I had a friend Maurice Campbell who died of AIDS

He was my dearest friend, we would go to a special

place that he loved and get their patty melts

I could go on and on about how happy memories

are tied into the taste of a poor dead animal

with Bocca Burgurs marble rye grilled onion cheese and a dab of butter

I bring back my friend Maurice and our hours together

it's not the taste alone it is thatcontection with family and friends

it is the memories that are conveyed with the tastes

 

recipesonly <recipesonly wrote:

 

People who have been raised as vegetarians from birth (millions of Indian Hindus

would fall into that category, like me) would simply never imagine eating

non-veg food. They also would not understand why anybody would want to make

vegetarian food that tastes like meat - and even less understand why vegetarians

would eat it

 

But I guess people who used to be non-vegetarians crave the taste of meat, even

if they dont eat meat any more (possibly for health reasons). Which is why the

thriving business in mock-meat, vegetarian " sausages " etc.

 

Just my two bits.

 

> : Spotted Dog

>

> Re: mock meat, mock shrimp

> Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:16:12 -0400

 

 

This may be a very stupid question, but if you are a vegetarian why do

you want or need something called " mock meat " ? To me it sounds like you

aren't serious about being a vegetarian, or, at the least, regret it.

Please explain the reasoning behind this.

 

This is a comment from a non-vegetarian, so should be taken as such.

(curious and questioning rather than judgmental or critical)

 

Lycos email has now 300 Megabytes of free storage... Get it now at

mail.lycos.co.uk

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In my case, my husband is not vegetarian. I've been vegetarian since 1982,

and no meat, fish, fowl, or sealife is allowed in our home. I cook mock

meats in deference to his living with a vegetarian for 23 of our 32 years

of marriage. Another reason is that mock meats make it easier to have

meals I enjoyed as a child, such as burgers. I don't believe in

sacrificing or depriving myself at all in response to my ethical food choices.

 

Sherry

 

At 09:16 PM 4/6/2005, you wrote:

>This may be a very stupid question, but if you are a vegetarian why do

>you want or need something called " mock meat " ? To me it sounds like you

>aren't serious about being a vegetarian, or, at the least, regret it.

>Please explain the reasoning behind this.

>

>This is a comment from a non-vegetarian, so should be taken as such.

>(curious and questioning rather than judgmental or critical)

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> I was raise on meat and had no idea what I was eating

> when I learned about veal I refused to eat it

 

Well good for you! And now you are vegetarian? Or vegan??

 

> my mother made a stuffed veal pocket that was unbelievable

 

Uh-uh-uh - not fair to evoke memories of me*t-eating! LOL I the idea

'unbelievable'

too.

 

> and the memory of us together looking at each other

> brings these meal of togethgerness back . . .

 

Okay, I see where you are going here - and I sympathize and I truly am sorry for

the

loss of your friend - but please don't let's discuss sentimental memories which

revolve aroound the eating of me*t here, okay? It is disturbing to those who

feel it is

wrong to eat meat; it is repulsive to those who have found that they are now

made ill

by the idea of eating the flesh of their fellow creatures (or anything that

looks or

tastes like it); and it just might be tempting to those who would like to eat

me*t if it

weren't for health considerations. Three good reasons to not discuss eating me*t

on

a vegetarian list, I'd say.

 

Best, Pat

[Guest guest]

In my experience, calling it " meat " has just been a texture thing. A lot of

protein substitutes have a texture similar to various forms of meat when cooked.

 

Rain

 

Spotted Dog <spotteddog wrote:

This may be a very stupid question, but if you are a vegetarian why do

you want or need something called " mock meat " ? To me it sounds like you

aren't serious about being a vegetarian, or, at the least, regret it.

Please explain the reasoning behind this.

 

This is a comment from a non-vegetarian, so should be taken as such.

(curious and questioning rather than judgmental or critical)

 

Keiko Ohnuma wrote:

 

>chinese buddhist vegetarian " meat " is made from yuba,

>the skin formed on soy milk when tofu is made. it's

>cheap and readily available in chinese markets, either

>as sheets or as rolls. just soak or boil in water to

>reconstitute. it has a lovely bland, milky flavor -- i

>love the stuff.

>

>konnkyaku is japanese, often found in the refrigerated

>section near the tofu in asian markets. it's some kind

>of amazing substance (alum root? i can't remember)

>that has no calories or nutrients; it's used widely in

>japan in all kinds of forms (including sweetened) to

>help with digestion -- kind of like flax seeds are

>used here, i suppose. it comes in clear cubes and a

>gray-flecked variety; it's also made into noodles,

>which make a fantastic calorie-less, no-carb

>alternative in asian stir-fries.

>

>

>

>

>>Message: 3

>> Tue, 05 Apr 2005 21:32:52 -0700

>> Craig Tompkins <craigtompkins

>>Re: Chinese Buddhist " Mock Me@t "

>>

>>I had lunch at Vegetarian Haven, a wonderful

>>restaurant in Toronto last Christmas, and they had

>>several mock seafood dishes. The shrimp substitute

>>in the salad roll was amazing. I don't know how they

>>did it, but I think konyaku was used in some form.

>>Does anyone have any ideas?

>>

>>Cheers,

>>Craig

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> In my experience, calling it " meat " has just been a texture thing. A lot of

protein

substitutes have a texture similar to various forms of meat when cooked.

 

(This is a really interesting discussion!) Okay, but if you had, for argument's

sake,

never eaten me*t, then you wouldn't know that a certain protein substitute had

the

texture of me*t, would you? And even if you were told so, how would that make it

seem desirable? I see what you are saying, though: that you like these faux

me*ts

for their texture not because they taste like me*t.

 

Someone got a bit aggressive with me when I took him and his wife to a place

that

made faux me*t. Neither of them is vegetarian, but they don't object to doing

without

animal protein when visiting (at least, they don't say they object). Anywayyyyy,

he

kept asking me what the *point* was of making something that looked like me*t

(but,

as he pointed out, didn't taste a bit like it really) if you were vegetarian. I

finally

quietened him down by using the comparison of radish or tomato 'roses' and

various

decorative carvings in butter, ice, fruits, etc. I said, why not? I said it hurt

no one,

and it's amusing to make something look like something it is not. It ended the

aggression, thank goodness, but my answer didn't even satisfy me, I'm afraid!

LOL

 

Pat

[Guest guest]

> I cook mock

> meats in deference to his living with a vegetarian for 23 of our 32 years

> of marriage.

 

OK - but I don't quite get this. Do you mean that you are somehow *compensating*

for otherwise vegetarian meals? Hey, maybe give them up and he'd become

veggie!!!

 

> Another reason is that mock meats make it easier to have

> meals I enjoyed as a child, such as burgers.

 

Well that's true enough. But you could make vegetable or bean patties that don't

pretend to be meat. But oh no, I'm wrong, that wouldn't work at all if it's the

taste/

smell you're after. Yeah, okay. So you use faux meats for burgers, shepherd's

pie,

lasagna, me*tballs, and strips of the stuff for stir fries, etc., and then there

are all

the sausage-like things for putting in buns, slicing on sandwiches, adding to

paella

or caldo verde or whatever. Okay. I get it!

 

>I don't believe in

> sacrificing or depriving myself at all in response to my ethical food choices.

 

LOL Love it. That's cute!

 

Best, Pat

[Guest guest]

Thank you for this information - I've written both products down.

These sound wonderful. It sounds like I may be able to make jerky out

of that yuba. Anyone ever try that? Anywho, this should be fun to

play with.

 

Shawn

 

, Keiko Ohnuma <kohnuma1>

wrote:

> chinese buddhist vegetarian " meat " is made from yuba,

> the skin formed on soy milk when tofu is made. it's

> cheap and readily available in chinese markets, either

> as sheets or as rolls. just soak or boil in water to

> reconstitute. it has a lovely bland, milky flavor -- i

> love the stuff.

>

> konnkyaku is japanese, often found in the refrigerated

> section near the tofu in asian markets. it's some kind

> of amazing substance (alum root? i can't remember)

> that has no calories or nutrients; it's used widely in

> japan in all kinds of forms (including sweetened) to

> help with digestion -- kind of like flax seeds are

> used here, i suppose. it comes in clear cubes and a

> gray-flecked variety; it's also made into noodles,

> which make a fantastic calorie-less, no-carb

> alternative in asian stir-fries.

[Guest guest]

-

pengwhyn

 

Someone got a bit aggressive with me when I took him and his wife to a place

that

made faux me*t. <snip> he kept asking me what the *point* was of making

something that looked like me*t (but, as he pointed out, didn't taste a bit like

it really) if you were vegetarian. I finally quietened him down by using the

comparison of radish or tomato 'roses' and various decorative carvings in

butter, ice, fruits, etc. I said, why not? I said it hurt no one, and it's

amusing to make something look like something it is not.

 

 

 

Reminds me of a New Year's party I went to a long time ago. I was the only

vegetarian, and was responsible for dessert, so I made up a " side of bacon " out

of marzipan! It looked so much like the real thing that a couple of near sighted

people were completely fooled, or maybe it was too much red wine! Anyway, it was

a great hit.

Cheers,

Craig

 

 

[Guest guest]

>>>so I made up a " side of bacon " out of marzipan! It looked so much like the

real thing that a couple of near sighted people were completely fooled, or maybe

it was too much red wine! Anyway, it was a great hit. Cheers, Craig

 

now THAT is funny!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Better first dates. More second dates. Personals

 

 

[Guest guest]

> >>>so I made up a " side of bacon " out of marzipan! It looked so much like the

real thing that a couple of near sighted people were completely fooled

 

ROFLMAO I love it! Just shows to go ya that most people just don't pay as much

attention to their food as you'd think!

 

Thanks for the belly laugh.

 

Pat

[Guest guest]

Pat said, " ...But you could make vegetable or bean patties that don't

pretend to be meat... "

 

That reminds me. We had dinner at an Indian restaurant down in Miami

last night and had kafta balls as one of the dishes. They were

delicious. They were a little different than the ones I had at a Middle

Eastern restaurant a long time ago. Both were good, but different from

each other.

 

(We have several recipes for " kofta " balls in our recipe files.)

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

from Maida, Citizens for Pets in Condos: http://www.PetsinCondos.org

[Guest guest]

Rain wrote:

 

>In my experience, calling it " meat " has just been a texture thing. A lot of

protein substitutes have a texture similar to various forms of meat when cooked.

>

>

 

Same here...I really don't look at the mock meats as a substitute for

meat, just another type of food...even good mock meat just doesn't taste

like meat to me at all...

 

The only thing that's come close for me are the McD's veggie burgers I

had in NYC...it was acctually kind of scary, so that's the last time

I've eaten at McD's since...

 

I do like the GardenBurgers, which I find pretty tasty, especially

grilled...although, I wanted to know what brand of mock hot dog was

good...I've been wanting to try them to have an alternative to the

gardenburgers....

 

Gina

[Guest guest]

Morningstar makes good soy dogs.

 

Rain

 

YankeeDyke <yankeedyke wrote:

Rain wrote:

 

>In my experience, calling it " meat " has just been a texture thing. A lot of

protein substitutes have a texture similar to various forms of meat when cooked.

>

>

 

Same here...I really don't look at the mock meats as a substitute for

meat, just another type of food...even good mock meat just doesn't taste

like meat to me at all...

 

The only thing that's come close for me are the McD's veggie burgers I

had in NYC...it was acctually kind of scary, so that's the last time

I've eaten at McD's since...

 

I do like the GardenBurgers, which I find pretty tasty, especially

grilled...although, I wanted to know what brand of mock hot dog was

good...I've been wanting to try them to have an alternative to the

gardenburgers....

 

Gina

 

 

[Guest guest]

I thought that I would finally chime in.

 

I am a born again vege; born a vege, ate meat for 4 years (age 6-10), then

back to vege-man since. I enjoy the Morningstar products because of the

protein content....keeps me full longer than anything else. My wife is not

particular fond of the products because they look and feel like meat, but

she does allow it in the house (which is good).

 

I am somehow against the concept of corn dogs, buffalo wings, chicken

burgers etc, but I am okay with the vege-burger product (I can't explain

it...it just is).

 

I say...if you enjoy it and its vege, go for it!

 

Have fun...stay healthy

 

-parag

 

On Apr 8, 2005 4:22 PM, Lauren Lowe <shadow13_6 wrote:

>

> Morningstar makes good soy dogs.

>

> Rain

>

> YankeeDyke <yankeedyke wrote:

> Rain wrote:

>

> >In my experience, calling it " meat " has just been a texture thing. A lot

> of protein substitutes have a texture similar to various forms of meat when

> cooked.

> >

> >

>

> Same here...I really don't look at the mock meats as a substitute for

> meat, just another type of food...even good mock meat just doesn't taste

> like meat to me at all...

>

> The only thing that's come close for me are the McD's veggie burgers I

> had in NYC...it was acctually kind of scary, so that's the last time

> I've eaten at McD's since...

>

> I do like the GardenBurgers, which I find pretty tasty, especially

> grilled...although, I wanted to know what brand of mock hot dog was

> good...I've been wanting to try them to have an alternative to the

> gardenburgers....

>

> Gina

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hari OM

 

I am a Hindu Brahman - invested with the sacred thread - one of very

few Americans to be so honored - our diet is dictated by scripture -

as for not discussing the past of meat eating, seems to me to be

saying Oh you were raped as a child, don't talk about it here. Most

vegetarians today once eat meat. Family dining is a ritual of unity

that has faded away turning the coffe table into the dining table.

The unity has been replaced by the boob tube. Americans on the whole

are pretty screwed up. Some of us have stated I will not be a part

of the killing and eating of helpless animals. I first gave up veal -

followed by red meat - it was a few years before I cut out anything

that could look at me. I had become so sick of chicken it was an

easy plunge. This is the third try at it and have not touched meat

since 94. If this is not a place where we can openly talk to our

fellow man without censoring our feelings. I am not so sure I want

to stay here. If I offend you - just say so - you decide if I should

go.

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " pengwhyn "

<veggiehound> wrote:

>

>

> > I was raise on meat and had no idea what I was eating

> > when I learned about veal I refused to eat it

>

> Well good for you! And now you are vegetarian? Or vegan??

>

> > my mother made a stuffed veal pocket that was unbelievable

>

> Uh-uh-uh - not fair to evoke memories of me*t-eating! LOL I the

idea 'unbelievable'

> too.

>

> > and the memory of us together looking at each other

> > brings these meal of togethgerness back . . .

>

> Okay, I see where you are going here - and I sympathize and I

truly am sorry for the

> loss of your friend - but please don't let's discuss sentimental

memories which

> revolve aroound the eating of me*t here, okay? It is disturbing to

those who feel it is

> wrong to eat meat; it is repulsive to those who have found that

they are now made ill

> by the idea of eating the flesh of their fellow creatures (or

anything that looks or

> tastes like it); and it just might be tempting to those who would

like to eat me*t if it

> weren't for health considerations. Three good reasons to not

discuss eating me*t on

> a vegetarian list, I'd say.

>

> Best, Pat

[Guest guest]

Comments after yours. I hope you find them all favorable, as that is

how they are meant. I believe that each of us has something (more than

one something) valuable to contribute. Thank you, and the many who have

commented before you, for your comments. All have been very helpful to me.

 

John Wagner wrote:

 

>Hari OM

>

>as for not discussing the past of meat eating,

>

> seems to me to be

>saying Oh you were raped as a child, don't talk about it here. Most

>vegetarians today once eat meat.

>

That was not the point at all---I just wondered about " mock meat " . I

suspect that the large majority of the members here are former

meat-eaters. And some of us are still carnivorous, just trying to learn

more about the life style while getting some great recipes.

 

>Americans on the whole are pretty screwed up.

>

Do you mean all Americans (quite a few countries) or just us United

Stations (with or without including Canadian)?

 

> If this is not a place where we can openly talk to our fellow man without

censoring our feelings.

>

I do not see it that way at all. I THANK YOU for expressing your

feeling. I am sorry that you feel, in any way, as though you are being

censored. I haven't seen that, but this is an issue for you to take up

with the group owners and moderators.

 

>I am not so sure I want to stay here. If I offend you - just say so - you

decide if I should

>go.

>

>

You have not in the least offended me, John. I shall reiterate that I

wish you to stay. The lose of any thinking, expressive member makes the

group poorer and less effective.

 

By the way, I'm the one who started the whole thread, not at all as a

criticism, but as a request for the group to help me learn since I am

not, at least for now, a vegetarian, just someone who wants to learn

more about the lifestyle.

 

With highest regards to you and all members of ,

 

Rev. D.Lynn Hickman

aka Spotted Dog

spotteddog