OT: 'Stifling talk' / was Digest Number 314

[Guest guest]

This subject line now reads OT for Off-Topic because, well, it is really - since

the

members of this list have expressed the preference that we post about recipes

and

food-related issues rather than vegetarianism in general. However, since the

list is a

bit slow right now, I shall be happy to have this topic discussed for a short

time

provided that it is understood to be OT and all posts are so marked for the

assistance of those who are *not* interested and wish to skip them. Okay? Fair

enought??? Okayyyy, off we go.

 

Doug said:

> As a non-vegetarian who over the past year or so has eaten

> considerably less meat. . .

 

Let me stop right there (don't laugh, Doug - I know that's funny [for others,

that was

the subject of our off-list discussion, that is to say being halted by certain

words or

phrases and responding to them rather than putting them in context] - and say

how

happy it makes me feel to have you say 'considerably less meat' - and you sound

happy about that decision. Good for you! I'd like to bet you feel better for it

too.

 

Okay, sorry for the interruption, let's continue:

 

>I would be interested in understanding what

> the issues are that vetetarians struggle with as " reformed meat-

> eaters "

 

For me, the issues are social, and we all know what those are.

 

>(I guess someone who has never eaten meat might struggle

> with what does a hamburger taste like).

 

I doubt it, but it's not for me to say.

 

>If someone " slips " , is

> there a feeling of guilt or do you put it aside and resolve to do

> better?

 

Difficult to answer. Not everyone is into the concept of 'guilt', you know. A

deliberate

'slip'? Well, that would be a decision made for what would seem to be a good

reason

at the time, wouldn't it. I guess (and I'm remembering my last encounter with

some

once-living creatures) I'd call it a feeling of tremendous sadness and

compassion

and mourning for the loss of life. That certainly strengthened my resolve - and

the

nightmares and indigestion that followed for the next three or four days didn't

make it

any weaker either. And then I went on of course as a vegetarian for the ensuing

years.

 

Accidental slip? Oh good grief that happened last year - they'd put chicken

stock

into a product that I keep in the freezer 'in case' - otherwise always been a

vegetarian product. It tasted odd, I retrieved the package from the rubbish bin

and

read the finest print and found, yup, chicken stock. I felt angry with myself

for not

reading the fine print each and every time. Then I threw the rest of the

packages

out. (There was indeed a slight feeing of physical nausea and a greater one of

revulsion at the thought that I had eaten a fellow creature.)

 

>From my naive perspective, I can understand that someone

> who objects to eating meat from an ethics perspective would could

> feel guilty because they helped support the killing of an animal;

 

Ahhh, that guilt thing again. Annoyed with myself, certainly. Forgiving of

myself?

Have to or I won't be able to get on with it.

 

> someone who is a vegetarian for religious reasons might feel guilty

> for breaking a relgious tenet.

 

Again, cannot comment.

 

>I would find it very helpful to hear

> from others about how they feel if they " slip. "

 

Well, you now have my longwinded response now. It's up to others to decide if

they

want to pursue this.

 

But answer a question or two back, would you please? (Fair's fair!) If you were

to

become vegetarian, would it be for ethical reasons (eg the animals are equal

lives to

ours and/or shouldn't be hurt of misused), philosophical or religious reasons,

humanitarian (world hunger comes to mind), environmental/ecological reasons, or

health reasons??? (There are probably others, but you get my drift.)

 

Having answered my question, above, how do you think you would feel yourself if

you went against what you believe to be right for you and, presumably, the

world?

We eat differently, we dress a little differently, and we often believe in

somewhat

different causes than many non-vegetarians, but vegetarian brains are not wired

differently, you know. We are not some strange never-before-discovered-by-

'divilized'-mankind lost tribe with similarly strangely perceived mindset. I'm

happy to

answer your queries, since you (and some others) have expressed a need to know.

But I do rather feel that you are playing Margaret Mead (and yes, I once spent

and

evening with the lady, thank you) to my Samoan Islander. LOL

 

> Thanks for the opportunity to raise these questions.

 

Yer welcome! Thanks for writing in. We don't hear from you often.

 

Best love,

 

Pat

[Guest guest]

pengwhyn wrote:

 

>Having answered my question, above, how do you think you would feel yourself if

>you went against what you believe to be right for you and, presumably, the

world?

>We eat differently, we dress a little differently, and we often believe in

somewhat

>different causes than many non-vegetarians, but vegetarian brains are not wired

>differently, you know. We are not some strange never-before-discovered-by-

>'divilized'-mankind lost tribe with similarly strangely perceived mindset. I'm

happy to

>answer your queries, since you (and some others) have expressed a need to know.

>But I do rather feel that you are playing Margaret Mead (and yes, I once spent

and

>evening with the lady, thank you) to my Samoan Islander. LOL

>

>

Speaking as a " health " veggie, I can say that when I " fall off the

wagon " it has some very real physical effects that remind me why I went

veggie in the first place! I have acid reflux, and going veggie and

cutting out most of the dairy and all of the meat has made it much

better. I have slipped here and there, and boy have I paid for it! I had

something with chicken in it a few weeks ago, and my stomach was a mess

for a week! Talk about a great deterrant, eh?

 

It's also good if you have support in your household. My roommate is now

going veggie like me. For him it's to control his asthma. He's planning

on totally cutting out the dairy, since it aggravates the asthma. We've

made the decision to totally support each other in sticking to the

veggie plan. It's much easier to do with friends. It's also easier to do

where I live (San Francisco Bay Area), since there are a great variety

of veggie resteraunts and most resteraunts have a signigicant veggie menu...

 

We believe that it's a healhier and more enviromentally friendly

lifestyle, and it makes us feel " cleaner " . To me, meat almost seems like

an addiction to get over. *shrug*

 

Gina