Guest guest Posted November 13, 2001 Report Share Posted November 13, 2001 I guess I'll take a moment to introduce myself, now that the title line seems appropriate... I'm Carla, a student/veterinary technician from Millbrae (you know, where the SF airport lives). I've probably met some of you at SFVS events -- I was a volunteer at the Veg Fest, and have been involved since. If you have trouble trying to remember what I look like, I'm the one with green (was blue) hair. I'm also coordinating this year's Fur Free Friday in SF, which is the biggest annual anti-fur march/rally in the area, and probably the nation. It's really crucial this time around, because our ultimate goal is to ban the sale of fur in the city, and this won't happen without a successful education campaign. We aleady know that most people don't approve of fur, and think it's unnecessary, but aren't willing to ban it because they believe people should have the right to buy whatever they want. We need to gently remind them that animals have a right to freedom and a certain quality of life. I've also been working with the Coalition to Abolish the Fur Trade (CAFT), and, if you ever feel the need to visit me, I'm in front of Neiman Marcus in Union Square protesting every Sunday from 2-4 pm. Aside from fur issues, I also try to promote veganism any chance I get. If anyone needs AR or vegan literature in a moment's notice, just ask -- I've got plenty of Why Vegan, Vegetarian Living, Vegan Advocacy, Vegan Starter Packs, VIVA stuff, holiday shopping guides, furkills.org stickers (please take some!! Please?) and a copy of the Witness in stock. Kind of makes you wonder how I manage to fit a bed in my room, doesn't it? Anyhow, if anyone wants to get in touch with me for any reason, please call or email any time. Carla Brauer ObscuredDestiny 650-219-8984 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2001 Report Share Posted November 13, 2001 Hello V*gans! First off, thanks to Tammy for introducing me to this great online *local* community. My name is Rayek. I'm a Living Foods Chef & Instructor living in SF, soon relocating to Berkeley to start a v*gan home with 3-5 other folks (if you're interested or know of a house available.. please let me know!). I currently lead a Vegan Raw Cuisine class on Sundays 6-8pm at Sacred Space Healing Center in SF (776 Haight @ Scott).. Soon we'll be expanding to a Wednesday night class as well either in the mission or East Bay... depends on what the people want :^) I've been mostly v*gan for the past couple of years, and eating primarily raw foods for over a year now.. I feel better than I ever have in my life! It's like I'm re-living my 20s in the best possible way! So if anyone out there is interested in learning more about v*gan raw foods I'm happy to share my resources (books, flyers, websites)... and if you'd like to try some of the most vibrant tasty food available, feel free to contact me for individual or group catering. Peace ~!~ Rayek ___________ Learn about the power of raw foods at ---> http://www.rawfoods.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 In a message dated 7/31/03 9:12:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ct.knitter writes: Elizabeth from Connecticut here, new to the list for almost a week. My husband, daughter and I have been vegetarians for about 5 years, and are going vegan now. It's been almost a month, and although it isn't perfect yet, we are feeling much better physically and spiritually :-) Anyhow, I am glad to be here and look forward to meeting more of you! welcome and salutations just keep it up!!! where in the nutmeg state do you hail from? cheers fraggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Hi Elizabeth > Elizabeth from Connecticut here, new to the list for almost a week. Welcome to the list (that also goes for all the others who've joined over the past few days - I think there's been about 10 of you!) BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release 14/07/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 I live in Waterbury, about 30 min from Hartford, but grew up in Bethlehem, in Litchfield county. While I'm at it, I have a question for y'all, and please forgive me if this is a worn out topic, but it's new to me: I am, as you can tell from my email address, an avid knitter. I know vegans aren't supposed to utilize wool, but I have a whole bin still since I've only been vegan a month. Now what do I do? Throw it out? I was considering knitting a bunch of children's socks for charity with it - would that be ok? I personally know the person I got the wool from, she raised her own small flock of sheep, and they were kept on a small family farm and treated well...I don't know if that makes any difference, but I was feeling very bad about wasting it - not because of the $$, but because I could knit quite a few pairs of socks and mitties for charity with it.. I plan in the future to only use cotton or acrylic, but I would greatly appreciate some advice here.Peace, Elizabeth ****************** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 In a message dated 7/31/03 12:07:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ct.knitter writes: Now what do I do? Throw it out? give it away...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Hi Elizabeth My view is that it is very wrong to waste something that you already have. I am still wearing leather shoes that I bought years ago, but will buy vegan ones when I next need some. Knitting socks for kiddies with the wool sounds like a good idea. Afterall, the wool is already there, so you might as well do some good with it. Incidentally, I love knitting too, but cannot do too much of it now, since I've had RSI a couple of times which has left my hands weak. They ache if I knit more than a few rows at a time :-( BBJo - Elizabeth L Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:45 PM Re: Introductions I live in Waterbury, about 30 min from Hartford, but grew up in Bethlehem, in Litchfield county. While I'm at it, I have a question for y'all, and please forgive me if this is a worn out topic, but it's new to me: I am, as you can tell from my email address, an avid knitter. I know vegans aren't supposed to utilize wool, but I have a whole bin still since I've only been vegan a month. Now what do I do? Throw it out? I was considering knitting a bunch of children's socks for charity with it - would that be ok? I personally know the person I got the wool from, she raised her own small flock of sheep, and they were kept on a small family farm and treated well...I don't know if that makes any difference, but I was feeling very bad about wasting it - not because of the $$, but because I could knit quite a few pairs of socks and mitties for charity with it.. I plan in the future to only use cotton or acrylic, but I would greatly appreciate some advice here. Peace, Elizabeth ****************** To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Hi, welcome to the list!!!!Elizabeth L <ct.knitter wrote: Hi all! Elizabeth from Connecticut here, new to the list for almost a week. My husband, daughter and I have been vegetarians for about 5 years, and are going vegan now. It's been almost a month, and although it isn't perfect yet, we are feeling much better physically and spiritually :-) Anyhow, I am glad to be here and look forward to meeting more of you!EBbrewpunx wrote: Organics sponsored conference says 'no' to GMOFoodProductionDaily.com29/7/2003A recent UK conference which questioned the future of GMO foods in theUK has returned a resounding 90 per cent of its attendees voting againstit.Chaired by political journalist Sue McGregor, the debate was sponsoredby Yeo Valley Organic and the Organic Milk Suppliers Cooperative (OMSCo)and held at the Lakewood Conference Centre, Somerset. It was attended byaround 150 local people including farmers, politicians, doctors, vetsand members of the public.The argument in favour of GM food was presented by Professor VivianMoses, co-ordinator of a EU, GM education programme, and Tony Combes,public affairs director of Monsanto, the world's largest producer of GMseeds.Speaking against the farming of GM crops were Peter Melchett, policydirector of The Soil Association and Nathan Argent, of Greenpeace.In his presentation to try and convince the audience that the adoptionof GM technology would be beneficial, Professor Moses explained thatvirtually every world safety authority has endorsed the 8 seeds approvedfor use in the UK and he explained that use of GM seeds worldwide wasincreasing by 10-20 per cent annually.He commented: "GM is already out there. The real issue now is how do weaccommodate different systems of agriculture in the same land area?"In a question and answer session, John Penrose, a local MP, who is akeen bee keeper, asked him how it would be possible to ensure that honeythat is currently organic remains uncontaminated by pollen fromgenetically modified plants, if approval is given for GM cultivation.Professor Moses commented: "I think we have to acknowledge thatsegregation isn't possible. There will still be a choice, it just won'tbe the same as it used to be."Speaking against the planting of GM seeds, Peter Melchett said:"Genetically engineered crops represent a huge, uncontrolled experiment.Their outcome is unpredictable. There is huge uncertainty not just inthe process, but in the impact it might have on you, your children andthe environment. It would be stupid to go ahead."According to the sponsors this view was supported by many in theaudience, including GP, Dr Richard Lawson, who stated: "It took 20,000papers to establish smoking causes lung cancer. If GM planting isallowed and we don't get GM labelling as well, we won't know who haseaten it and who hasn't, so we won't have a control group of people ifit transpires something does go wrong."A vote by the audience, to show how many were for and how many wereagainst GM foods was strongly against, with more than 90 per cent of theattendees saying they don't want to have GM food planted in Britain.This reflects the results of a poll that has been running on the YeoValley organic web site, where around 93 per cent of visitors have voted'No'Yeo Valley dairy products are all of organic origin, which follows thatmany of its customers would not be likely to consume GMO food products.The results of both polls and a summary of the debate are now being sentto the UK Government in advance of its forthcoming deliberations onwhether to allow further planting of genetically modified seeds in theUK. *************************************************************** Naive, narrow and biased... Carlo Leifert explains why he resigned from the government's GM sciencereview panel Thursday July 24, 2003The Guardian When I joined the GM science review panel, I thought that we would bedoing a detailed risk assessment. We would work out where there might beproblems with GM, what the nature of the problems might be and whatresearch had to be done to prove whether or not they were significant. From the very start, we should have looked at whether something could gowrong with the technology itself. If you add an alien gene to a plant,how do you know what side effects you will get? We know that if we addgenes to bacteria, it can change things unintentionally, and studiesshow this can happen in plants as well. How good are our methods todetect these unintentional changes? But it soon became clear we wouldn't be doing a detailed riskassessment. Part of the problem came down to how scientific results arereported. If anyone had found that the GM process caused unwanted sideeffects in plants, it probably wouldn't make it into the scientificjournals. Side effects would be viewed as negative results andscientists tend not to publish those. They often only get mentioned inPhD theses and reports to sponsors, because in those you have to explainwhy you've taken so long to do something. I made the point that to do aproper risk assessment, we needed to try and obtain that original datato get an idea of how often such side effects happen. This request wasignored. The panel felt we should focus mainly on peer-reviewed work andthat going into that much detail would take too long. I completelydisagreed with this approach. It quickly became apparent that the panel wasn't balanced enough toproduce an objective report. Most of the biologists who reallyunderstood the technical details of some of the arguments were stronglypro-GM. I felt that there should have been more specialists on board whoweren't so indiscriminantly positive about the technology. There shouldhave been more of an attempt to recruit scientists with good molecularbiology knowledge and a more critical approach to the technology. For me, the last straw came when someone from the biotech industry wasasked to write the chapter on food safety. It seemed incredibly naive tome to have someone whose interest is in selling GM to do the riskassessment chapter. They were already convinced of its safety. I triedto resign quietly, because I was warned that it was not a good ideacriticising your peers on scientific panels. But once everyone knew Ihad resigned and I was asked about my reasons, I felt that I had toexplain why. Especially because what we have now from the panel is areport that is essentially pro-GM. It means the government decisionmakers may have to react to this scientific advice by allowing importsof GM crops and the growing of GM crops in the UK. In my opinion, this report is not carefully enough researched to givethe green light to GM and doesn't identify the uncertainties wellenough. The report mentions that Americans have eaten GM food for about sevenyears now and they haven't suffered. But nobody has actuallyinvestigated the effect of GM consumption on public health in the US.The argument doesn't make sense, and to have it coming from a scientificpanel is really quite sad. I don't believe the government has tried to force the science review inany particular direction to push an agenda. My feeling is they areconcerned that GM technology could be risky to human health and theenvironment. I feel that the bias came from the strong lobby of pro-GMscientists and biotechnology representatives on the panel. They seem tobe much more prepared to take little or no evidence as meaning noproblem. I felt we should be more careful than that and say, let's getmore information and then judge it. There are already signs that Europe is being more cautious about GMtechnologies. The European Union is now seeking to fund research intoways of improving our ability to check GM plants for unwanted sideeffects. They have also put out a tender for testing the difficulties ofco-existence between GM crops and non-GM crops). We should wait until wehave better techniques and more information on the questions that arestill open. As soon as improved methods for safety assessments areavailable we should insist they become part of the routine riskassessments of the GM companies. One of the conclusions of the report is that we have to look at GM cropson a case-by-case basis. I wouldn't agree with that. Right now we stillhave to check that there isn't some inherent problem with thetechnology. Professor Carlo Leifert, an expert in organic farming at the Universityof Newcastle, resigned from the government's GM science panel last week.The panel's final report was published on Monday. Interview by Ian Sample. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 theres nothing wrong with using it up, im sure someone out there will be snuggly warm for your generosity!!!!! so how can it be wrong!!!! i used to love it when i was a kid and my nana and auntie would knit me jumpers and things i miss that!!!!!Elizabeth L <ct.knitter wrote: I live in Waterbury, about 30 min from Hartford, but grew up in Bethlehem, in Litchfield county. While I'm at it, I have a question for y'all, and please forgive me if this is a worn out topic, but it's new to me: I am, as you can tell from my email address, an avid knitter. I know vegans aren't supposed to utilize wool, but I have a whole bin still since I've only been vegan a month. Now what do I do? Throw it out? I was considering knitting a bunch of children's socks for charity with it - would that be ok? I personally know the person I got the wool from, she raised her own small flock of sheep, and they were kept on a small family farm and treated well...I don't know if that makes any difference, but I was feeling very bad about wasting it - not because of the $$, but because I could knit quite a few pairs of socks and mitties for charity with it.. I plan in the future to only use cotton or acrylic, but I would greatly appreciate some advice here. Peace, Elizabeth ******************To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2003 Report Share Posted August 1, 2003 Welcome to that chat Elizabeth. Hope you find it at LEAST some what resourceful! Ly, Sam.EBbrewpunx wrote: In a message dated 7/31/03 9:12:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ct.knitter writes: Elizabeth from Connecticut here, new to the list for almost a week. My husband, daughter and I have been vegetarians for about 5 years, and are going vegan now. It's been almost a month, and although it isn't perfect yet, we are feeling much better physically and spiritually :-) Anyhow, I am glad to be here and look forward to meeting more of you!welcome and salutationsjust keep it up!!!:)where in the nutmeg state do you hail from?cheersfraggle To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2003 Report Share Posted August 1, 2003 welcome, Elizabeth! " This is your American dream Everything is simple in the white and the black You will never need to see the grey anymore You will never have to be afraid. " --Everclear ----Original Message Follows---- Elizabeth L <ct.knitter Introductions Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:44:55 -0700 (PDT) Hi all! Elizabeth from Connecticut here, new to the list for almost a week. My husband, daughter and I have been vegetarians for about 5 years, and are going vegan now. It's been almost a month, and although it isn't perfect yet, we are feeling much better physically and spiritually :-) Anyhow, I am glad to be here and look forward to meeting more of you! EBbrewpunx wrote: Organics sponsored conference says 'no' to GMO FoodProductionDaily.com 29/7/2003 A recent UK conference which questioned the future of GMO foods in the UK has returned a resounding 90 per cent of its attendees voting against it. Chaired by political journalist Sue McGregor, the debate was sponsored by Yeo Valley Organic and the Organic Milk Suppliers Cooperative (OMSCo) and held at the Lakewood Conference Centre, Somerset. It was attended by around 150 local people including farmers, politicians, doctors, vets and members of the public. The argument in favour of GM food was presented by Professor Vivian Moses, co-ordinator of a EU, GM education programme, and Tony Combes, public affairs director of Monsanto, the world's largest producer of GM seeds. Speaking against the farming of GM crops were Peter Melchett, policy director of The Soil Association and Nathan Argent, of Greenpeace. In his presentation to try and convince the audience that the adoption of GM technology would be beneficial, Professor Moses explained that virtually every world safety authority has endorsed the 8 seeds approved for use in the UK and he explained that use of GM seeds worldwide was increasing by 10-20 per cent annually. He commented: " GM is already out there. The real issue now is how do we accommodate different systems of agriculture in the same land area? " In a question and answer session, John Penrose, a local MP, who is a keen bee keeper, asked him how it would be possible to ensure that honey that is currently organic remains uncontaminated by pollen from genetically modified plants, if approval is given for GM cultivation. Professor Moses commented: " I think we have to acknowledge that segregation isn't possible. There will still be a choice, it just won't be the same as it used to be. " Speaking against the planting of GM seeds, Peter Melchett said: " Genetically engineered crops represent a huge, uncontrolled experiment. Their outcome is unpredictable. There is huge uncertainty not just in the process, but in the impact it might have on you, your children and the environment. It would be stupid to go ahead. " According to the sponsors this view was supported by many in the audience, including GP, Dr Richard Lawson, who stated: " It took 20,000 papers to establish smoking causes lung cancer. If GM planting is allowed and we don't get GM labelling as well, we won't know who has eaten it and who hasn't, so we won't have a control group of people if it transpires something does go wrong. " A vote by the audience, to show how many were for and how many were against GM foods was strongly against, with more than 90 per cent of the attendees saying they don't want to have GM food planted in Britain. This reflects the results of a poll that has been running on the Yeo Valley organic web site, where around 93 per cent of visitors have voted 'No' Yeo Valley dairy products are all of organic origin, which follows that many of its customers would not be likely to consume GMO food products. The results of both polls and a summary of the debate are now being sent to the UK Government in advance of its forthcoming deliberations on whether to allow further planting of genetically modified seeds in the UK. *************************************************************** Naive, narrow and biased... Carlo Leifert explains why he resigned from the government's GM science review panel Thursday July 24, 2003 The Guardian When I joined the GM science review panel, I thought that we would be doing a detailed risk assessment. We would work out where there might be problems with GM, what the nature of the problems might be and what research had to be done to prove whether or not they were significant. From the very start, we should have looked at whether something could go wrong with the technology itself. If you add an alien gene to a plant, how do you know what side effects you will get? We know that if we add genes to bacteria, it can change things unintentionally, and studies show this can happen in plants as well. How good are our methods to detect these unintentional changes? But it soon became clear we wouldn't be doing a detailed risk assessment. Part of the problem came down to how scientific results are reported. If anyone had found that the GM process caused unwanted side effects in plants, it probably wouldn't make it into the scientific journals. Side effects would be viewed as negative results and scientists tend not to publish those. They often only get mentioned in PhD theses and reports to sponsors, because in those you have to explain why you've taken so long to do something. I made the point that to do a proper risk assessment, we needed to try and obtain that original data to get an idea of how often such side effects happen. This request was ignored. The panel felt we should focus mainly on peer-reviewed work and that going into that much detail would take too long. I completely disagreed with this approach. It quickly became apparent that the panel wasn't balanced enough to produce an objective report. Most of the biologists who really understood the technical details of some of the arguments were strongly pro-GM. I felt that there should have been more specialists on board who weren't so indiscriminantly positive about the technology. There should have been more of an attempt to recruit scientists with good molecular biology knowledge and a more critical approach to the technology. For me, the last straw came when someone from the biotech industry was asked to write the chapter on food safety. It seemed incredibly naive to me to have someone whose interest is in selling GM to do the risk assessment chapter. They were already convinced of its safety. I tried to resign quietly, because I was warned that it was not a good idea criticising your peers on scientific panels. But once everyone knew I had resigned and I was asked about my reasons, I felt that I had to explain why. Especially because what we have now from the panel is a report that is essentially pro-GM. It means the government decision makers may have to react to this scientific advice by allowing imports of GM crops and the growing of GM crops in the UK. In my opinion, this report is not carefully enough researched to give the green light to GM and doesn't identify the uncertainties well enough. The report mentions that Americans have eaten GM food for about seven years now and they haven't suffered. But nobody has actually investigated the effect of GM consumption on public health in the US. The argument doesn't make sense, and to have it coming from a scientific panel is really quite sad. I don't believe the government has tried to force the science review in any particular direction to push an agenda. My feeling is they are concerned that GM technology could be risky to human health and the environment. I feel that the bias came from the strong lobby of pro-GM scientists and biotechnology representatives on the panel. They seem to be much more prepared to take little or no evidence as meaning no problem. I felt we should be more careful than that and say, let's get more information and then judge it. There are already signs that Europe is being more cautious about GM technologies. The European Union is now seeking to fund research into ways of improving our ability to check GM plants for unwanted side effects. They have also put out a tender for testing the difficulties of co-existence between GM crops and non-GM crops). We should wait until we have better techniques and more information on the questions that are still open. As soon as improved methods for safety assessments are available we should insist they become part of the routine risk assessments of the GM companies. One of the conclusions of the report is that we have to look at GM crops on a case-by-case basis. I wouldn't agree with that. Right now we still have to check that there isn't some inherent problem with the technology. Professor Carlo Leifert, an expert in organic farming at the University of Newcastle, resigned from the government's GM science panel last week. The panel's final report was published on Monday. Interview by Ian Sample. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2003 Report Share Posted August 1, 2003 Oh, boy, do I smell another furious debate coming.... anyway, it's really up to you. Would you feel comfortable wearing clothes if you knit them for yourself? I think this falls under the " a friend of mine raises chickens; is it ok to eat the eggs? " while it's not vegan, it's certainly better than buying wool/eggs from a store. I think it's a great idea to give to charity--if you can. Danielle " This is your American dream Everything is simple in the white and the black You will never need to see the grey anymore You will never have to be afraid. " --Everclear ----Original Message Follows---- Elizabeth L <ct.knitter Re: Introductions Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:45:54 -0700 (PDT) I live in Waterbury, about 30 min from Hartford, but grew up in Bethlehem, in Litchfield county. While I'm at it, I have a question for y'all, and please forgive me if this is a worn out topic, but it's new to me: I am, as you can tell from my email address, an avid knitter. I know vegans aren't supposed to utilize wool, but I have a whole bin still since I've only been vegan a month. Now what do I do? Throw it out? I was considering knitting a bunch of children's socks for charity with it - would that be ok? I personally know the person I got the wool from, she raised her own small flock of sheep, and they were kept on a small family farm and treated well...I don't know if that makes any difference, but I was feeling very bad about wasting it - not because of the $$, but because I could knit quite a few pairs of socks and mitties for charity with it.. I plan in the future to only use cotton or acrylic, but I would greatly appreciate some advice here. Peace, Elizabeth ****************** _______________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2003 Report Share Posted August 1, 2003 Hi Elizabeth and WELCOME! nikki One must care about a world one will not see. Bertrand Russell , Elizabeth L <ct.knitter@s...> wrote: > Hi all! > > Elizabeth from Connecticut here, new to the list for almost a week. My husband, daughter and I have been vegetarians for about 5 years, and are going vegan now. It's been almost a month, and although it isn't perfect yet, we are feeling much better physically and spiritually :-) > > Anyhow, I am glad to be here and look forward to meeting more of you! > > EBbrewpunx@c... wrote: > Organics sponsored conference says 'no' to GMO > > FoodProductionDaily.com > 29/7/2003 > > A recent UK conference which questioned the future of GMO foods in the > UK has returned a resounding 90 per cent of its attendees voting against > it. > > Chaired by political journalist Sue McGregor, the debate was sponsored > by Yeo Valley Organic and the Organic Milk Suppliers Cooperative (OMSCo) > and held at the Lakewood Conference Centre, Somerset. It was attended by > around 150 local people including farmers, politicians, doctors, vets > and members of the public. > > The argument in favour of GM food was presented by Professor Vivian > Moses, co-ordinator of a EU, GM education programme, and Combes, > public affairs director of Monsanto, the world's largest producer of GM > seeds. > > Speaking against the farming of GM crops were Peter Melchett, policy > director of The Soil Association and Nathan Argent, of Greenpeace. > > In his presentation to try and convince the audience that the adoption > of GM technology would be beneficial, Professor Moses explained that > virtually every world safety authority has endorsed the 8 seeds approved > for use in the UK and he explained that use of GM seeds worldwide was > increasing by 10-20 per cent annually. > > He commented: " GM is already out there. The real issue now is how do we > accommodate different systems of agriculture in the same land area? " > > In a question and answer session, John Penrose, a local MP, who is a > keen bee keeper, asked him how it would be possible to ensure that honey > that is currently organic remains uncontaminated by pollen from > genetically modified plants, if approval is given for GM cultivation. > > Professor Moses commented: " I think we have to acknowledge that > segregation isn't possible. There will still be a choice, it just won't > be the same as it used to be. " > > Speaking against the planting of GM seeds, Peter Melchett said: > " Genetically engineered crops represent a huge, uncontrolled experiment. > Their outcome is unpredictable. There is huge uncertainty not just in > the process, but in the impact it might have on you, your children and > the environment. It would be stupid to go ahead. " > > According to the sponsors this view was supported by many in the > audience, including GP, Dr Richard Lawson, who stated: " It took 20,000 > papers to establish smoking causes lung cancer. If GM planting is > allowed and we don't get GM labelling as well, we won't know who has > eaten it and who hasn't, so we won't have a control group of people if > it transpires something does go wrong. " > > A vote by the audience, to show how many were for and how many were > against GM foods was strongly against, with more than 90 per cent of the > attendees saying they don't want to have GM food planted in Britain. > This reflects the results of a poll that has been running on the Yeo > Valley organic web site, where around 93 per cent of visitors have voted > 'No' > > Yeo Valley dairy products are all of organic origin, which follows that > many of its customers would not be likely to consume GMO food products. > > The results of both polls and a summary of the debate are now being sent > to the UK Government in advance of its forthcoming deliberations on > whether to allow further planting of genetically modified seeds in the > UK. > > *************************************************************** > > Naive, narrow and biased... > > Carlo Leifert explains why he resigned from the government's GM science > review panel > > Thursday July 24, 2003 > The Guardian > > When I joined the GM science review panel, I thought that we would be > doing a detailed risk assessment. We would work out where there might be > problems with GM, what the nature of the problems might be and what > research had to be done to prove whether or not they were significant. > > From the very start, we should have looked at whether something could go > wrong with the technology itself. If you add an alien gene to a plant, > how do you know what side effects you will get? We know that if we add > genes to bacteria, it can change things unintentionally, and studies > show this can happen in plants as well. How good are our methods to > detect these unintentional changes? > > But it soon became clear we wouldn't be doing a detailed risk > assessment. Part of the problem came down to how scientific results are > reported. If anyone had found that the GM process caused unwanted side > effects in plants, it probably wouldn't make it into the scientific > journals. Side effects would be viewed as negative results and > scientists tend not to publish those. They often only get mentioned in > PhD theses and reports to sponsors, because in those you have to explain > why you've taken so long to do something. I made the point that to do a > proper risk assessment, we needed to try and obtain that original data > to get an idea of how often such side effects happen. This request was > ignored. The panel felt we should focus mainly on peer-reviewed work and > that going into that much detail would take too long. I completely > disagreed with this approach. > > It quickly became apparent that the panel wasn't balanced enough to > produce an objective report. Most of the biologists who really > understood the technical details of some of the arguments were strongly > pro-GM. I felt that there should have been more specialists on board who > weren't so indiscriminantly positive about the technology. There should > have been more of an attempt to recruit scientists with good molecular > biology knowledge and a more critical approach to the technology. > > For me, the last straw came when someone from the biotech industry was > asked to write the chapter on food safety. It seemed incredibly naive to > me to have someone whose interest is in selling GM to do the risk > assessment chapter. They were already convinced of its safety. I tried > to resign quietly, because I was warned that it was not a good idea > criticising your peers on scientific panels. But once everyone knew I > had resigned and I was asked about my reasons, I felt that I had to > explain why. Especially because what we have now from the panel is a > report that is essentially pro-GM. It means the government decision > makers may have to react to this scientific advice by allowing imports > of GM crops and the growing of GM crops in the UK. > > In my opinion, this report is not carefully enough researched to give > the green light to GM and doesn't identify the uncertainties well > enough. > > The report mentions that Americans have eaten GM food for about seven > years now and they haven't suffered. But nobody has actually > investigated the effect of GM consumption on public health in the US. > The argument doesn't make sense, and to have it coming from a scientific > panel is really quite sad. > > I don't believe the government has tried to force the science review in > any particular direction to push an agenda. My feeling is they are > concerned that GM technology could be risky to human health and the > environment. I feel that the bias came from the strong lobby of pro- GM > scientists and biotechnology representatives on the panel. They seem to > be much more prepared to take little or no evidence as meaning no > problem. I felt we should be more careful than that and say, let's get > more information and then judge it. > > There are already signs that Europe is being more cautious about GM > technologies. The European Union is now seeking to fund research into > ways of improving our ability to check GM plants for unwanted side > effects. They have also put out a tender for testing the difficulties of > co-existence between GM crops and non-GM crops). We should wait until we > have better techniques and more information on the questions that are > still open. As soon as improved methods for safety assessments are > available we should insist they become part of the routine risk > assessments of the GM companies. > > One of the conclusions of the report is that we have to look at GM crops > on a case-by-case basis. I wouldn't agree with that. Right now we still > have to check that there isn't some inherent problem with the > technology. > > Professor Carlo Leifert, an expert in organic farming at the University > of Newcastle, resigned from the government's GM science panel last week. > The panel's final report was published on Monday. > > Interview by Ian Sample. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 Hi Elizabeth, If you own it and it is not vegan I would suggest that you utelise it and not waste it. Either knit items and donate them to a charity shop or non vegan friends and relatives. Obviously from your original note , you will not be buying wool in the future, so have a clear conciense and at least do something positive with what you have.... All The Best, The Valley Vegan......... > I live in Waterbury, about 30 min from Hartford, but grew up in Bethlehem, in Litchfield county. > >While I'm at it, I have a question for y'all, and please forgive me if this is a worn out topic, but it's new to me: > >I am, as you can tell from my email address, an avid knitter. I know vegans aren't supposed to utilize wool, but I have a whole bin still since I've only been vegan a month. Now what do I do? Throw it out? I was considering knitting a bunch of children's socks for charity with it - would that be ok? I personally know the person I got the wool from, she raised her own small flock of sheep, and they were kept on a small family farm and treated well...I don't know if that makes any difference, but I was feeling very bad about wasting it - not because of the $$, but because I could knit quite a few pairs of socks and mitties for charity with it.. > >I plan in the future to only use cotton or acrylic, but I would greatly appreciate some advice here. > > > > >Peace, >Elizabeth >****************** Peter H -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 Elizabeth- I just think you're the sweetest thing, donateing them to charity is an awsome idea, go for it! Surley doesn't make you a bad person! Ly, Sam.Elizabeth L <ct.knitter wrote: I live in Waterbury, about 30 min from Hartford, but grew up in Bethlehem, in Litchfield county. While I'm at it, I have a question for y'all, and please forgive me if this is a worn out topic, but it's new to me: I am, as you can tell from my email address, an avid knitter. I know vegans aren't supposed to utilize wool, but I have a whole bin still since I've only been vegan a month. Now what do I do? Throw it out? I was considering knitting a bunch of children's socks for charity with it - would that be ok? I personally know the person I got the wool from, she raised her own small flock of sheep, and they were kept on a small family farm and treated well...I don't know if that makes any difference, but I was feeling very bad about wasting it - not because of the $$, but because I could knit quite a few pairs of socks and mitties for charity with it.. I plan in the future to only use cotton or acrylic, but I would greatly appreciate some advice here. Peace, Elizabeth ******************To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Hi Sharon and welcome! Mika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Hi Sharon, I'm not that big of a cottage cheese person either, but I put it in my shake and it tastes pretty good. The blender actually breaks up the curds. I do cottage cheese, flaxseeds, 1/2 scp protein mix, oats and strawberries and 1 banana. It is the only thing that holds me until lunchtime. Wendy in Philly On Behalf Of Sharon WylieTuesday, February 21, 2006 12:00 PM Subject: Introductions Hi all,I'm Sharon (Sharon in CA, since there are severalSharons now). I've been vegetarian for 11 years, onthe program for just over a year, and on steps 6/7 for7 months or so.I was a member of the previous vegetarian group, soI'm glad to see it return. I know there are a lot ofpeople who eat some small amounts of meat here, but Ihope we will stay focused on vegetarian eating. It wasfrustrating to me in the past when the group wouldfall into meat-eating discussions.Just to share: my usual breakfast is cottage cheesewith pineapple and a couple of slices of whole wheattoast. I have never been a cottage cheese lover, and Istill struggle with the texture (thus the addedpineapple), so every now and then I think to myself,"Wow, I'm a cottage cheese eater!" What a change.Bright blessings,Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 yeah i can relate to the cottage cheese thing...i just had some about an hour ago actually, with pinapple! i never liked the texture, but the pineapple helped. i had the "cottage cheese doubles" though, which has sugar. when i give up sugar, i will switch to real pineapple. thanks for your input! Kim On Behalf Of Sharon WylieTuesday, February 21, 2006 12:00 PM Subject: IntroductionsHi all,I'm Sharon (Sharon in CA, since there are severalSharons now). I've been vegetarian for 11 years, onthe program for just over a year, and on steps 6/7 for7 months or so.I was a member of the previous vegetarian group, soI'm glad to see it return. I know there are a lot ofpeople who eat some small amounts of meat here, but Ihope we will stay focused on vegetarian eating. It wasfrustrating to me in the past when the group wouldfall into meat-eating discussions.Just to share: my usual breakfast is cottage cheesewith pineapple and a couple of slices of whole wheattoast. I have never been a cottage cheese lover, and Istill struggle with the texture (thus the addedpineapple), so every now and then I think to myself,"Wow, I'm a cottage cheese eater!" What a change.Bright blessings,Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Hi Sharon, my hope is that this list will be a place where all versions of vegetarians can feel comfortable posting, from the vegans all the way to those who eat small amounts of meats. We have a lot of respect around Radiant Recovery for people who are in different places in their lives, and I would hope that continues here . Of course the specific discussions should be relevant to support for vegetarians doing the food overall. Your breakfast sounds yummy! Mine fluctuates between eggs and toast, or shake. This morning it was shake: almond milk, george's jr, blueberries, and oats. Yum! Heather On Behalf Of Sharon WylieTuesday, February 21, 2006 12:00 PM Subject: IntroductionsHi all,I'm Sharon (Sharon in CA, since there are severalSharons now). I've been vegetarian for 11 years, onthe program for just over a year, and on steps 6/7 for7 months or so.I was a member of the previous vegetarian group, soI'm glad to see it return. I know there are a lot ofpeople who eat some small amounts of meat here, but Ihope we will stay focused on vegetarian eating. It wasfrustrating to me in the past when the group wouldfall into meat-eating discussions.Just to share: my usual breakfast is cottage cheesewith pineapple and a couple of slices of whole wheattoast. I have never been a cottage cheese lover, and Istill struggle with the texture (thus the addedpineapple), so every now and then I think to myself,"Wow, I'm a cottage cheese eater!" What a change.Bright blessings,Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Wow ! I like that idea very much. What you think we try that on Raw Soul. Lynda See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Hello I just signed up today I have not been a practicing veggie for the pass year. And am looking to get back on the wagon so to speak I had a lot of trouble with traveling and working too many hours ,,, Each new year is a new start, right I in New England but orginally a west coaster (Seattle) I don't think ever really transplant completely I work here as an engineer at Pratt and Whitney ( jet engine maker) Share my home and life with 5 parrots, 2 cats and a 66lb 8 month old puppy Who takes a ton of time too... Gabriele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 I hear you, I signed up today as well..Travel and work had me so busy, I stopped exersizing and eating healthy. Though I managed to stay vegetarian, I found myself eating veggie burgers every day and rarely cooking. Going back to the gym for the first time today! I have a few really good veg recipes that I modified from regular meat based recipes that I will post later. , " azimom " <zookeeper2007 wrote: > > Hello > I just signed up today > I have not been a practicing veggie for the pass year. And am looking > to get back on the wagon so to speak > I had a lot of trouble with traveling and working too many hours ,,, > > > Each new year is a new start, right > I in New England but orginally a west coaster (Seattle) I don't think > ever really transplant completely > > I work here as an engineer at Pratt and Whitney ( jet engine maker) > Share my home and life with 5 parrots, 2 cats and a 66lb 8 month old > puppy Who takes a ton of time too... > > > Gabriele > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Lovely to have you here - welcome! And how good that you've decide to revert to being veggie! Such a good way to go!!!! And yeah, it's really tough sometimes if you are away from home, isn't it Still, now you know the problems I'm sure you'll find a way around it! Being here just might help - I hope so - so let us know if there's anything we can help you with. > I in New England but orginally a west coaster > (Seattle) I don't think > ever really transplant completely Know the feeling, although from and in a different part of the world! > Share my home and life with 5 parrots, 2 cats > and a 66lb 8 month old > puppy Who takes a ton of time too... My dh and I share ours with three rescued companion animals: one sweet-tempered handsome tiger tabby with attitude and two beautiful tri-coloured beagle girls. What is your puppy (or hasn't he made up his mind yet?)?? Best, Pat (Group Owner - so you know who to blame if needed!) ---- Dr Patricia M. Sant http://beanvegan.blogspot.com Vegan World Cuisine: http://www.care2.com/c2cvegworld Vegetarian Spice: Vegetarian Slimming: vegetarianslimming Vegetarians In Canada: vegetariansincanada 'To cultivate kindness is a valuable part of the business of life.' Samuel Johnson (1709-1784) ______________________________\ ____ Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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