Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Hi everyone, I turned over a new leaf for 2008 and became a vegetarian! One small issue, I wouldn'r exactly consider myself a full-grown vegetarian because I am still eating fish (pescovegetarian?). I am trying to wean but finding it difficult. Any words of wisdom? I must say how wondeful I already feel that I have completely nixed-out beef, pork, and chicken from my diet. I already lost weight, and my energy level is surprisingly higher. Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 On 2/13/08, luckynumero7 <luckynumero7 wrote: > > Hi everyone, Hi, Jen! > I turned over a new leaf for 2008 and became a vegetarian! > One small issue, I wouldn'r exactly consider myself a full-grown > vegetarian because I am still eating fish (pescovegetarian?). I am > trying to wean but finding it difficult. > Any words of wisdom? From a health perspective, fish has as much fat as beef, loads of cholesterol, and much of it is contaminated by mercury. From an animal welfare perspective, fish have well-developed nervous systems and suffer just as other animals do when they're " harvested " for food. From an environmental perspective, we are over-fishing the oceans and driving many species of fish toward extinction. Fish are a very important part of the oceanic life cycle and their diminishing numbers are having a wide-spread impact on the environment. And from a food craving perspective, studies have shown that trying to wean off a food or other substance will prolong cravings while committing to just three weeks completely without the food or substance will be more effective because the cravings pass after two weeks. So try committing to three weeks with no fish and give it 100% for those three weeks and then see where you're at. > I must say how wondeful I already feel that I have completely nixed-out > beef, pork, and chicken from my diet. I already lost weight, and my > energy level is surprisingly higher. Isn't it great?! And it gets better and better, the more animal proteins you eliminate from your diet. Several people here are vegan or working their way toward vegan. If you think vegetarian (or almost vegetarian) feels good . . . it only goes uphill from here! I'm so glad you joined us and I hope we can share some recipes with you that are tasty enough to distract you from fish and help you get onto a more fully plant-based diet! Welcome! Sparrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 >> I am still eating fish > (pescovegetarian?). I am > > trying to wean but finding it difficult. > > Any words of wisdom? > > From a health perspective, fish has as much fat > as beef, loads of > cholesterol, and much of it is contaminated by > mercury. > > From an animal welfare perspective, fish have > well-developed nervous > systems and suffer just as other animals do > when they're " harvested " > for food. > > From an environmental perspective, we are > over-fishing the oceans and > driving many species of fish toward extinction. > Fish are a very > important part of the oceanic life cycle and > their diminishing numbers > are having a wide-spread impact on the > environment. > > And from a food craving perspective, studies > have shown that trying to > wean off a food or other substance will prolong > cravings while > committing to just three weeks completely > without the food or > substance will be more effective because the > cravings pass after two > weeks. > > So try committing to three weeks with no fish > and give it 100% for > those three weeks and then see where you're at. Welcome to the group - and please do try what our moderator Sparrow has suggested - I promise you it works! I'm so glad you are feeling better on a vegetarian diet. The further you go towards a plant-based diet, the better off you feel, the fewer problems, etc. And think of all the wonderful vegetables and fruits and grains and lentils and beans and seeds and nuts (whew!!!) you'll be able to enjoy when you're no longer filling your bod with animal flesh and animal products! A whole world of lovely dining is out there waiting for you! Enjoy the group - and ask whatever you want. We like to be able to help. And a word for Sparrow: Well said. I couldn't have put it better myself. Indeed, not even half as well Best, Pat (Group Owner) ---- Vegetarian Spice: http://beanvegan.blogspot.com Vegan World Cuisine: http://www.care2.com/c2cvegworld Vegetarian Slimming: vegetarianslimming Vegetarians In Canada: vegetariansincanada " Atrocities are not less atrocities when they occur in laboratories and are called medical research. " (George Bernard Shaw) ______________________________\ ____ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Aquatic cholesterol http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0876/is_n74/ai_18001480 http://tinyurl.com/22uw6j Try baking some firm tofu coated with breadcrumbs. After it is chilled it can be eaten cold as is or used in sandwiches and salads. The Asian store I shop at has mock oyster which is incredible. They also have most everything else. Squid, fish, shrimp and lobster. I am an value orientation vege and I like the analogs so I can make all of the old fashioned menus and not miss texture or taste. I think some people try to avoid things that resemble the unhealthy lifestyle and find the scenario too alien, then recoil because they can't integrate the ingredients. Why avoid the past that can be changed. We all know world history. As long as the life is preserved who cares about political correctness. Like any other habit breaking attempt, pick up a substitute. Might I add, many of the substitutes actually TASTE better due to the ingredients AND the even elimination of some not desirable. Funny thing is I use these mushroom stems that taste like rubbery stringy beef, they call them mutton, but I like the rubbery, stringy texture and flavor. The make a vegetable soup that is shocking. Or my tamales that seem so real by combining Yves, TVP and red palm oil that they seem greasy and fattening. A pursuit of mine is to make dishes that seem extremely unhealthy that are really counterfeits. I get the biggest thrill knowing so many health nuts would outright reject them as having way more calories and being more overindulgent than acceptable. But they are really tricks of color, texture and spice. The fat/sugar/carbohydrate content and caloric assessment is low. They have no cholesterol. I have even learned how to make it seem foods come from " Greasy Spoon Cafe " . My vegan boudin balls this weekend were proof of that. You don't have to deny yourself, simply use your intelligence and creativity to make the changes necessary. Trick the tongue and the mind will not know either. A lot of people who feel they must take life would be surprised to find it now and especially in the near future is becoming unnecessary and perhaps dangerous. I don't think people would have as many problems if they did not make it seem as though they were on a religious retreat where they give up the " cares of the world " if you know what I mean. , " luckynumero7 " <luckynumero7 wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I turned over a new leaf for 2008 and became a vegetarian! > One small issue, I wouldn'r exactly consider myself a full-grown > vegetarian because I am still eating fish (pescovegetarian?). I am > trying to wean but finding it difficult. > Any words of wisdom? > > I must say how wondeful I already feel that I have completely nixed- out > beef, pork, and chicken from my diet. I already lost weight, and my > energy level is surprisingly higher. > > Jen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 On 2/13/08, Vida Stevens <vida wrote: > > I am an value orientation vege and I like the analogs so I can make > all of the old fashioned menus and not miss texture or taste. I think > some people try to avoid things that resemble the unhealthy lifestyle > and find the scenario too alien, then recoil because they can't > integrate the ingredients. I agree, although I tend to shy away from recommending analogs because it can be very frustrating for people who live in places where these products are not available. For example, where I live I can get a Boca Burger or Garden Burger, veggie crumbles, or mock steak strips (which are not very good, although the other two products I mention are quite tasty.) I was eating veggie dogs but a closer inspection of the label showed them to have dairy in them, so they're out. Someone recommending that I eat lots of veggie bologna and veggie chicken chunks, etc. would leave me frustrated and not knowing what to eat if they did not also say that these foods are fun but not required and I can get all my nutrition from foods that are available in nearly every grocery store such as beans, grains, fruits and vegetables. It may be a little easier for me since I grew up in a vegetarian household, though. Someone who did not grow up that way is going to be very frustrated if every vegetarian recipe they encounter contains things they don't recognize and can't purchase in their town. (And even worse if they can't even mail order it.) > I don't think people would have as many problems if they did not make > it seem as though they were on a religious retreat where they give up > the " cares of the world " if you know what I mean. I think I do know what you mean, but as a religious person who came to vegan eating as a result of my church's dietary rules and feels a stronger connection to my God and to Paradise every time I eat vegan I do wish you had chosen a different way to phrase it. I am having to remind myself that you did not mean any insult by putting it that way. Peace, love and veggies! Sparrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Vida wrote and Sparrow responded: > > I don't think people would have as many problems if they did not make > > it seem as though they were on a religious retreat where they give up > > the " cares of the world " if you know what I mean. > > I think I do know what you mean, but as a religious person who came to > vegan eating as a result of my church's dietary rules and feels a > stronger connection to my God and to Paradise every time I eat vegan I > do wish you had chosen a different way to phrase it. I am having to > remind myself that you did not mean any insult by putting it that way. I feel reasonably secure in saying that Vida did not mean her remark to be directed towards any one person here Had I made that remark myself (which I didn't) I would have probably simply meant that it is not necessary to punish oneself because one is veg*n by withdrawing from the available convenience faux-meat products that can make becoming vegetarian or vegan easier I think that the remark made was meant in general, not specific. Unless one must avoid even a smidgin of extra fat, there would seem little point in cutting them completely out of consideration - unless one just plain dislikes them (And some are truly yucky! - so newbies be warned - but so are some non-veg products!) I know it is difficult, when remarks touch close to home, to think that what is said is meant neither about oneself nor about one's philosophy, beliefs, culture or lifestyle. Here the philosphy, belief system, culture and lifestyle we try to respect is the _veg*n_ path. Admittedly, I don't like it much myself when people say they are here for health only, for an example, and if they then firmly state it is _not_ because they care about animals! But I don't take it personally even though I feel closer to my fellow animals and to planet earth when I eat my plant-based diet. Ya know? We are all here for different reasons. And we may have differing views about what is and what is not a good reason. But no one reason takes precedence over another here - they are all good. If you're veg*n (or eating more veg) for health, good - you also help the animals and the planet. Same if you are doing it for the animals - you improve your health by avoiding animal protein and you help the planet. If you are doing it for the planet, likewise you improve your health as above and save the animals. And if you're doing it to be trendy, the same results pertain. And ain't that just dashedly marvellous!!!! So much served by just one act! Okay, all. As you were. We love you all here, okay? Thanks for listening LOL Love and hugs, and thanks to both Vida and Sparrow for this very interesting exchange Pat (Group Owner, general dogsbody and scapegoat [strange expressions, eh! Must look em up again!]) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 On 2/13/08, Pat <drpatsant wrote: > > I feel reasonably secure in saying that Vida did not mean > her remark to be directed towards any one person here Oh, I'm sure that it wasn't meant to be an insult. But a thoughtless remark can be insulting if one doesn't stop to think about the idea of respecting all the world's cultures. > Had I made that remark myself (which I didn't) I would have > probably simply meant that it is not necessary to punish oneself > because one is veg*n And, see, there's where it's hard to hear - religious retreats from the cares of the world are not punishment. I *know* that's not what you mean, but that's what the words say and even though it's not intended harshly or as an insult, it was using someone's culture as an insulting term and I have a problem with that - be it my culture or anyone else's. > I know it is difficult, when remarks touch close to home, to think > that what is said is meant neither about oneself nor about one's > philosophy, beliefs, culture or lifestyle. It's not about me. I'd dislike a comment like that just as much it if said " ashram " or " mosque " instead of the generic " religious retreat. " Now, I'm the last person in the world to fight for " political correctness, " but I am careful not to put my religion forward here on the list and in return I'd like to not hear religion used as an insult. I love this list and I love all you guys and I don't want to come to feel uncomfortable because my culture is considered something acceptable to use as an insult. I don't call stupid things " gay " (as is culturally accepted in some circles) for the same reason - someone else's culture is not my insult. With great love and respect for all here, Sparrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 > The Asian store I shop at has mock oyster which is incredible. They > also have most everything else. Squid, fish, shrimp and lobster. Now occasionally - just occasiionally, mind you! - I do remember with a certain nostalgia my previous enjoyment of just the things that you can buy in mock form. Mock oyster? Now THAT I could go for! I shall look for some at our local asian grocer - he has to be all things to all people, but you never know, he just might have some there. I've had mock shrimp and can take it or leave it, but not had the mock squid or mock lobster. The only time I eat faux meats is when we dine out at our fave asian veg restaurant - they do a pretty convincing faux chikken which worried me at first bite I suppose I could stop being so negative about such things - just because I tried a couple from the supermarket that I didn't like - and try some of those chikken strips in a curry or a stir-fry at home. Why not?!!! If I don't like em my puppy will be happy to tidy up (well, not the curry perhaps LOL). Love and hugs, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 My Dad had for a while gone on retreats where for the next week he would fold his hands a certain way which if you are my age you may have seen some people do. Of course not taking the life of an animal to exist is a spiritual thing even for those who may not have decided to do it for ethical reasons. I like the idea I can be a better person to animals without giving anything up. Just pretending to be not of the world is not to say I am free. When I don't have to over adjust my nature to live and the past flows into the future it brings comfort. People taking the time and spending the effort to help what is a bad situation, and it surely is, may not have to find such an alien future. By using analogs I have both food science and nutritional science at work for me. My Dad did fine to change for a week but as is seed on stone the unreal nature and patterns of thought were not comfortable or doable. This idea of not eating animals is as natural and normal as any other thought, thing or day. When it is comfortable and does not require sacrifice. I know many people have a spiritual existence and the worst antagonist to doing so is failing to follow a pattern of familiarity. I know many people are comfortable with beans and few other protein sources. They have holding ability because they are principled or satisfied with their suroundings. Through out the old furniture and buy new, some will prefer the old back because it was comfortable and familiar. Furniture can't be brought back usually. People can pop down to the supermarket and pick up the old foods just for a while though. If they miss something it will be twice as likely they will reactivate towards the normal food sources. As long as less than five percent of the populace is vegetarian much effort needs to be placed on keeping interested people happy. Everybody has eaten beans. Not everybody has tried the exciting and nutritious new foods. The more people that buy them and never alter their new lifestyle will ensure the continued availability of such commodities. There is also peer pressure to not be vegetarian. As well as attack agents who snipe at vegetarians. Vegan food is not going away. It is big. Primarily disease free. Healthier and more sanitary. Eventually vegan food will cost much less than historical avenues of diet and will attempt to please those who simply must have Grannies vittles. The Asian store I shop at sells vegetarian tripe and kidney. Mock duck and oyster. Ham and fish. I kid you not. The list is actually much longer. When John and Jane Doe can eat a vegan oyster po boy with veganase not missing the experience aside from the worry of contamination or other pathogen their will be a lessening of psychological loss. Psychological loss causes regret. Regret makes people question their behavior and pattern changes. The products like the ham will work in casseroles and pasta dishes. Or in food spread. I made some thing with veganase and the ham using wheat berries that was awesome, the following day I used Quorn to do the same thing. Someday it will be foolish to the obvious extent not to be a vegetarian. I don't like to put religious pressure on others. I am not religious except to my everyday routines. But whether we acknowledge it or not we inherently have a responsibility to the Creator of life and all living things. I am very near many people who are religious, yet not spiritual. This is kind of long and wordy but it is, and jeez do I almost hate to say this, that we are like salespeople and (BTW not martyrs) who want a whale existence with a butterfly touch. I feel almost ashamed, what right do I have to say I know better, but scientific fact is on my side and the future will prove disaster after disaster shows something is wrong and is not going to work, become better or go away. Don't be offended, but the world is not going to go away, it won't change that quick except for the worse and temporary fixations as I have personally seen many pass through similar to religious retreats where they give up the " cares of the world " for a week or so as a soul cleansing affair do more harm than good. And I know you know what I mean if you have lived long enough and have visited with enough of the major religious efforts. Perhaps I should have used the term " Homesick " . At the time I had not thought of that. There are of course cults and I have been around enough to see the damage to the individual who after exposure will now shun all valid assemblages. Of the major churches I have been to a dozen I suppose. It has been my experience that even in the established religions there is a human psychological formula that is habitually followed. Like trips to the dentist for tooth cleaning, once the smile is bright the visits stop. I find this more than sad but part of the moral breakdown and subsequent false reassurance of faithfulness in character which has hurt society. Of course I am not anti-worship, but in giving newer vegetarians a great gift to keep and use to hold fast to the newer behavioral and dietary lifestyle I have seen too many times the pattern and hope to offer solutions to help. Just think, every person who cooks food will more than likely be preparing for for others. When somebody who eats the same or similar meals with the same texture and flavor expected will most likely remark that they are surprised to find there is not much difference. If I on the other hand make everybody dance around the lettuce bowl while chanting, I can't be certain I will ever be feeding these people again. Just imagine somebody having to make hats out of their lettuce before they eat it. Or tossing something on the table that has fifty new ingredients. The most likely comment I will hear is " Gee, where is the Mac and Cheese with Ham? " People just to be nice will say " That is very nice, I have never tasted anything quite like that before " . You can bet they are thinking " ...and I sure won't be anymore... " I myself eat some strange foods and so far nobody has once wanted to touch the stuff after looking at it or smelling it so many times I know not to ask Except on the rare occasion when I am making that age old offering when you both know the answer is no, but it is culturally considerate to ask. At first, and I mean years ago, I thought everybody was going to become excited as I. Some people still consider artichoke an exotic food. Say vegetarian or vegan and see the face muscles stiffen and body language still to cover the discomforting awkwardness of explanations. I know some people relish alternate food scenarios and I am glad to see you have that happen. I live in Louisiana " The Sportsman's Paradise " . I am in Baton Rouge. We do not have one vegetarian restaurant in this metro area of over half a million. I do meet others in the frozen food section at Wal- Mart. They move the " breakfast section " where the vegetarian shelf is often. It is moving all the time. So far I have had protracted conversations with many others and much enthusiasm has been generated. I have to say the thing that seems to find its way into most peoples heart is the non-differe3nce of newer products. I am hearing comments like " Even my kids love it " or " Yeah those burgers were pretty good " . I feel it is not about shoving people off of a cliff but moving them along a path. It is on this note I suggest as many cooks learn to use vegetarian and if possible vegan products to serve others. You know you have won when people say it is less greasy or rubbery. Or taste better. Then if they lose weight and their digestion and elimination is improved they will rationalize they are not losing a friend. They are being set free. How many people labor to a temple of worship as though they were led to slaughter. Instead of getting out of prison. Well, being a vegetarian is supposed to be like that. You are getting out of bondage. One week of a fast is as useless as wine in an eyedropper. I also want people to feel like they are sitting in their living room in their underwear and not in the hospital getting ready for surgery. I want to give them their blanket and teddy bear. Not put it in the closet and tell them " you have changed, you are older now " meaning " it looks bad to have that " . As though they have to buy a bowler hat and arrange vegetable refrigerator magnets on it. [Make note to self, great idea] The living room is the comfort of the past food experiences and the blanket and teddy bear is the flavor, texture and expectation of ingredients (analogs). I know it is frustrating, but five percent is low. In Baton Rouge I have found around what I think is perhaps two percent or less to be even considering the change. I speak with a lot of people as I initiate conversations easily. It is a hobby of mine to interview people in a non offensive and invisible manner as though it were just conversation alone. Because of this I am able to information mine on a broad scale and believe me, people open up when the correct format is given. I am very positive towards my data that we are just about to handsomely increase our ranks quite well. The traditional foods have meaning to all cultures. I don't want to steal a persons culture from them by food harassment. Political or ethic. Supplying exciting revelations of edibility and then even health considerations along with cost savings or equivalence along with the stark points about life saving consequences are received in a spirited manner. I almost get the feeling an amputation is not anticipated. BTW be careful to begin to read labels. revolutionary ingredient for the chocolate industry http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/news-by- product/productpresentation.asp?id=967 & k=gelita-unveils-a http://tinyurl.com/2f8pw9 http:GELITA AG WORLDWIDE EXCELLENCE IN GELATINE //www.foodnavigator-usa.com/news-by-product/indexbyCpyEntry.asp? id=51 & k=elita-a http://tinyurl.com/yqlojw I'm sure they feel very strongly they are doing good for us all and would not want to hurt their feelings, but I bet a dollar to doughnuts they get attacked and develop a hard protective coating that protects their mouth and hands. http://www.gelita.com/ , " Sparrow R Jones " <sparrowrose wrote: > > On 2/13/08, Vida Stevens <vida wrote: > > > > I am an value orientation vege and I like the analogs so I can make > > all of the old fashioned menus and not miss texture or taste. I think > > some people try to avoid things that resemble the unhealthy lifestyle > > and find the scenario too alien, then recoil because they can't > > integrate the ingredients. > > I agree, although I tend to shy away from recommending analogs because > it can be very frustrating for people who live in places where these > products are not available. For example, where I live I can get a Boca > Burger or Garden Burger, veggie crumbles, or mock steak strips (which > are not very good, although the other two products I mention are quite > tasty.) I was eating veggie dogs but a closer inspection of the label > showed them to have dairy in them, so they're out. > > Someone recommending that I eat lots of veggie bologna and veggie > chicken chunks, etc. would leave me frustrated and not knowing what to > eat if they did not also say that these foods are fun but not required > and I can get all my nutrition from foods that are available in nearly > every grocery store such as beans, grains, fruits and vegetables. > > It may be a little easier for me since I grew up in a vegetarian > household, though. Someone who did not grow up that way is going to be > very frustrated if every vegetarian recipe they encounter contains > things they don't recognize and can't purchase in their town. (And > even worse if they can't even mail order it.) > > > I don't think people would have as many problems if they did not make > > it seem as though they were on a religious retreat where they give up > > the " cares of the world " if you know what I mean. > > I think I do know what you mean, but as a religious person who came to > vegan eating as a result of my church's dietary rules and feels a > stronger connection to my God and to Paradise every time I eat vegan I > do wish you had chosen a different way to phrase it. I am having to > remind myself that you did not mean any insult by putting it that way. > > Peace, love and veggies! > Sparrow > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Hi again, I'm really interested in what you have to say here - and I don't wish to suggest that all I got out of your excellent email was one little phrase - but this, the obvious statement you make, struck me as honing in on something my dh and I often discuss. > As long as less than five percent of the populace is vegetarian much effort needs to be placed on keeping interested people happy. Yes indeed - and there are more and more excellent foods out there now which are made specifically for veg*ns. Some may not be as 'healthy' as beans and greens or whatever one's particular eating style is, but they are much healthier than me*t and real dairy AND they are better for the planet as well as saving the murder of the animals. Being 'normal' is important to most people, although some others do tend to highlight their difference from the rest of the crowd (often to the detriment of the very cause they are trying to promote). People are generally happier when they don't feel alienated from their peers, their family, etc., because of the lifestyle choices they are making. We are sociable creatures, we humans, not quite pack animals but we do like to drift around in herds And I actually tried a faux f*sh dish at the asian restaurant on Thursday - for the first time in several years. Those who know me know that I usually say I dislike these fake me*ts. It was delicious. I'll be having it again! Keeping people interested in vegetarianism and veganism is important - the idea of sacrifice might appeal to some, but after a while even the novelty of that can wear off. I'd rather that when and if it DOES wear off that these same people are already aware of the lovely things available so that they don't have to go back to destroying the animals, the planet and their own health. Soapbox now returned to storage. Going shopping! Love and hugs, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.