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, " Dora Hancock " <hancock@t...> wrote:

> I have just joined this group and I want to introduce myself. My

name is

> Dora.

 

Welcome, Dora!

 

<snip>

 

> He is very supportive but I feel I can't deny them what he eats when

he is

> out. In practice Beth has eaten one ham sandwich and they both ate

fish 18

> months ago.

 

We won't crucify you 8-). In fact, while we were travelling in the UK

last spring, I let my older son eat fish because he wouldn't eat

anything else (he is the original picky eater). I don't see

vegetarianism as a religion ...

 

> I would like to meet other people who are like me.

 

You are in the right place.

 

Be well, Hadass in Winnipeg, Canada

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do not feel bad dora. what people eat has to be their decision. I am

currently the only family member would eats vegetarian. It is great the

your DH is supportive of you.

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> My DH is not a vegetarian. We keep the house vegetarian except at

Christmas

 

 

Hi Dora my name is Emma I am 24 years old and have been a vegetarian

for 12 years. I am bringing up my 4 1/2 month year old daughter

vegetarian. Like you my husband is supportive however is not

a vegetarian. I hope I will never have to give my daughter any meat,

however it makes it hard if the whole family isn't vegetarian.

How many others are a similiar situation i.e whole family not

vegetarian. Love to hear others experiences

Emma

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Welcome Dora!

 

My DH and I are both vegetarians, but for a mere 5 years or so. We have

a 7 month old boy, and we plan on raising him as a vegetarian. My son's

primary caregiver is my MIL, who respects our wishes to raise our son as

vegetarian. However, I think it might be an issue as my son grows older

and is more interested in table foods. My MIL plans to cook " veggie

friendly " on the nights she has my son, but we know he will be

introduced to meats at many family events and friendly gatherings (my DH

and I are the only vegetarians we know. Bummer...).

I agree with Hadass when she says " I don't see vegetarianism as a

religion ... " , although some do. What we plan on doing is encouraging

meatless meals at home (focusing on a healthy diet and eating habits

FIRST), but allowing our son to explore when he's not at home (e.g. at

parties, friends homes -- I can't expect everyone to change THEIR

lifestyle to accomodate my son, and I don't want to make him feel

different than others unneccessarily. Again, healthful eating habits are

the most important)... I feel very strongly that he will decide for

himself what he wants to eat. Maybe we're TOO flexible.

 

I have a ways to go before being confronted with these issues, but am

too interested in learning how to approach them as they arise.

 

Pam, mommy to Ian Maxwell (7 mos)

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Hi Emma and Everyone!

I'm Nancy Dollard and I'm a lacto-ovo vegetarian in Ohio. My husband is not vegetarian and neither is my 3 year old daughter (although I'm introducing her to more vegan dishes).

I understand where you're coming from since you're the only vegetarian, it's hard when your husband isn't since you still have to buy and cook the meat. I just prepare his meat to the side and usually throw kidney beans or peas in my dishes in place of the meat. (For example: Manwhich-he gets hamburger, I get kidney beans-we all share the sauce).

Love to hear from others like us with any helpful tips,

Nancy

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DH is Darling Husband and SIL is SISTER IN LAW.

 

CrenHov [CrenHov]Tuesday, January 23, 2001 2:40 AM Subject: Re: IntroductionPlease can someone tell me what "DH" and "SIL" mean? Thanks!CarmenFor more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to http://www.vrg.org/family.

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  • 10 months later...

Welcome Karen! What area of the country are you from? We know exactly how

you feel - we are the only weirdos on the block so to speak!

 

Lynne

karen_rebecca_99 [kdetling]

Monday, December 10, 2001 9:06 AM

Introduction

 

 

Hi - I just joined the group, and I am really looking forward to

being connected with other vegetarian parents. I don't think I know

any in person.

 

I have been vegetarian for 13 years, and my husband has been for

about 9 or 10. We have two small children, a 2 1/2 year old daughter

and a 6 month old son, who are both vegetarian. I'll probably lurk

for a few days to get a feel for the group, but I look forward to

posting too.

 

Karen

 

 

 

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Hi Lynne - Thanks for the welcome. I live in the Baltimore, Maryland

area.

 

Karen

 

- In , " Lynne Stornello " <libby63@a...> wrote:

> Welcome Karen! What area of the country are you from? We know

exactly how

> you feel - we are the only weirdos on the block so to speak!

>

> Lynne

>

> karen_rebecca_99 [kdetling@h...]

> Monday, December 10, 2001 9:06 AM

>

> Introduction

>

>

> Hi - I just joined the group, and I am really looking forward to

> being connected with other vegetarian parents. I don't think I

know

> any in person.

>

> I have been vegetarian for 13 years, and my husband has been for

> about 9 or 10. We have two small children, a 2 1/2 year old

daughter

> and a 6 month old son, who are both vegetarian. I'll probably

lurk

> for a few days to get a feel for the group, but I look forward to

> posting too.

>

> Karen

>

>

>

>

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi Huria

 

I didn't take supplements at all during my first pregnancy because they made

me very ill. For some reason I could manage them fine with my second and

most of the time with my third.

 

All my babies were quite healthy. I also had an ultrasound with all three

of them with no problems. It might be worth having to put your mind at rest

but it is totally up to you. I am very much for having a natural pg but did

go along with the ultrasound in the end.

 

Jacqueline

 

-

" Jakqui Remec " <jak.remec

 

January 7, 2002 10:46

Introduction

 

 

> Hi all,

>

> my name's Huria (that's my nick, my real name's Jakqui) and I'm almost 20

> weeks pregnant with my first baby. (Baby is due late May). I live in

Wales,

> UK and am married to my husband Andrej.

>

> I hope you don't mind me asking about something that's really been playing

on

> my mind.

>

> I wanted to ask the group members, especially vegan ones, whether they

took

> folic acid and B12

> during pregnancy, especially before pregnancy and during first 12 weeks.

The

> reason I ask is because in first 12 weeks I had ongoing nausea and my

> nutrition wasn't amazing (although had a lot of fruit) because I went off

> nearly all foods. I had the B-complex vitamin tablets, but to even put one

of

> those yucky tasting pills in my mouth for an instant was too much to bear

> most of the time, so I didn't take them that often. I wanted to know if

any

> of you (or if you know of others similarly) had a similar experience where

> you didn't take the folic acid and B12 during those first weeks and

whether

> your babies were healthy? I'm a bit paranoid that because of not taking

the

> vitamins I might now have a baby with disabilities, like a NTD. It would

be

> reassuring to know that babies coming from a similar scenario were born

> healthy, but equally I would like to hear if that wasn't the case. I'm due

to

> have my 20 week scan next Thursday, I was going to try and avoid having

it,

> like I did the 15 week scan (due to hearing of suspected risks to babies

from

> ultrasound) but now am feeling so nervous about the above that I'm

> considering having it.

>

> Kindest Best Wishes,

>

> Huria

>

>

>

> For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.

>

>

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Huria, this is just my opinion (I guess that is what this group is all about) I

would encourage you to have the 20 week ultrasound. I believe being prepared is

the best thing you can do for yourself and your new baby. If you need to be

prepared to deal with a problem or defect, it will help if you know what to

expect and have some contacts to use for support rather than being completely

blind-sided the day your baby arrives. As far as taking the b-12 and folate I

do not have much of an answer, I have a friend that is a registered dietian and

ate by the book including supplements and her child has NTD's, but you also

have to think that women in generations past have lacked many things in their

diet and had perfectly healthy babies. And look at it this way, your are only

1/2 way , you still have 20 weeks to eat right and take all the supplements you

feel will be beneficial!! Best of luck!!!

 

 

 

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Huria

 

Congratulations! I was really good at taking my vitamins (either pill or

juice) before I got pregnant and until I was about 6 weeks when nausea set

in in a big way. I took a multi vitamin whenever I felt I could stomach it

and later, as the nausea subsided, daily. I, too, worried about NTD (along

with everything else) but my son was born healthy and has had no problems in

his 21 mos other than repeated ear infections. I hope this eases your mind a

little. Enjoy the rest of your pregnancy! Madeline

 

 

>Jakqui Remec <jak.remec

>

>

> Introduction

>Mon, 7 Jan 2002 14:46:12 +0000

>

>Hi all,

>

>my name's Huria (that's my nick, my real name's Jakqui) and I'm almost 20

>weeks pregnant with my first baby. (Baby is due late May). I live in Wales,

>UK and am married to my husband Andrej.

>

>I hope you don't mind me asking about something that's really been playing

>on

>my mind.

>

>I wanted to ask the group members, especially vegan ones, whether they took

>folic acid and B12

>during pregnancy, especially before pregnancy and during first 12 weeks.

>The

>reason I ask is because in first 12 weeks I had ongoing nausea and my

>nutrition wasn't amazing (although had a lot of fruit) because I went off

>nearly all foods. I had the B-complex vitamin tablets, but to even put one

>of

>those yucky tasting pills in my mouth for an instant was too much to bear

>most of the time, so I didn't take them that often. I wanted to know if any

>of you (or if you know of others similarly) had a similar experience where

>you didn't take the folic acid and B12 during those first weeks and whether

>your babies were healthy? I'm a bit paranoid that because of not taking the

>vitamins I might now have a baby with disabilities, like a NTD. It would be

>reassuring to know that babies coming from a similar scenario were born

>healthy, but equally I would like to hear if that wasn't the case. I'm due

>to

>have my 20 week scan next Thursday, I was going to try and avoid having it,

>like I did the 15 week scan (due to hearing of suspected risks to babies

>from

>ultrasound) but now am feeling so nervous about the above that I'm

>considering having it.

>

>Kindest Best Wishes,

>

>Huria

>

>

>

>For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

>http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

>http://www.vrg.org/family.

>

>

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Don't freak out, but it is absolutely imperative that you take both B-12 and

folic acid every day in pregnancy....especially if you aren't eating much.

Folic acid is usually high on a vegan diet if one is consuming foods such as

leafy greens, beans, oranges, etc etc. You may have been ok on folic acid

if you were eating anything at all that had some (oranges for example), but

vegans who are pregnant must supplement b12 every day! This is verrrrry

important.

 

Good luck and don't assume anything as there are so many variables as to

whether your baby suffered damage or not. It doesn't matter what others tell

you about what happened to them individually because your body is

different....different digestive system, different vitamin stores, different

genetic material, etc etc.... Let us know what you find out.

 

Shelly

 

> Hi all,

>

> my name's Huria (that's my nick, my real name's Jakqui) and

> I'm almost 20

> weeks pregnant with my first baby. (Baby is due late May). I

> live in Wales,

> UK and am married to my husband Andrej.

>

> I hope you don't mind me asking about something that's really

> been playing on

> my mind.

>

> I wanted to ask the group members, especially vegan ones,

> whether they took

> folic acid and B12

> during pregnancy, especially before pregnancy and during

> first 12 weeks. The

> reason I ask is because in first 12 weeks I had ongoing nausea and my

> nutrition wasn't amazing (although had a lot of fruit)

> because I went off

> nearly all foods. I had the B-complex vitamin tablets, but to

> even put one of

> those yucky tasting pills in my mouth for an instant was too

> much to bear

> most of the time, so I didn't take them that often. I wanted

> to know if any

> of you (or if you know of others similarly) had a similar

> experience where

> you didn't take the folic acid and B12 during those first

> weeks and whether

> your babies were healthy? I'm a bit paranoid that because of

> not taking the

> vitamins I might now have a baby with disabilities, like a

> NTD. It would be

> reassuring to know that babies coming from a similar scenario

> were born

> healthy, but equally I would like to hear if that wasn't the

> case. I'm due to

> have my 20 week scan next Thursday, I was going to try and

> avoid having it,

> like I did the 15 week scan (due to hearing of suspected

> risks to babies from

> ultrasound) but now am feeling so nervous about the above that I'm

> considering having it.

>

> Kindest Best Wishes,

>

> Huria

>

>

>

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Remember that B12 is fortified in many soy and rice milks so if you used these

you might be ok on that one too. It is also in the veg'n support formula of Red

Starr Nutritional Yeast and I noticed some of the analogues also have it. There

is nothing you can do about the past and most likely things will be fine so try

not to worry. As for the Folic Acid it is quite possible to get enough through

diet. My obstetrician told me this during my first pg when I couldn't handle

the supplement. As said earlier it is in many vegan foods so you are probably

fine on that count. Not to mention your levels of folic acid would have been

fine in the first few weeks of pg that happened before you even knew you were pg

if you were eating well.

 

I'm not discounting the importance of supplements but just pointing out that

Huria is halfway through her pregnancy and probably was better off for B12 and

Folic Acid than she thought.

 

Jacqueline

 

-

Shelly Eades

January 7, 2002 23:05

RE: Introduction

 

 

 

Don't freak out, but it is absolutely imperative that you take both B-12 and

folic acid every day in pregnancy....especially if you aren't eating much.

Folic acid is usually high on a vegan diet if one is consuming foods such as

leafy greens, beans, oranges, etc etc. You may have been ok on folic acid

if you were eating anything at all that had some (oranges for example), but

vegans who are pregnant must supplement b12 every day! This is verrrrry

important.

 

Good luck and don't assume anything as there are so many variables as to

whether your baby suffered damage or not. It doesn't matter what others tell

you about what happened to them individually because your body is

different....different digestive system, different vitamin stores, different

genetic material, etc etc.... Let us know what you find out.

 

Shelly

 

> Hi all,

>

> my name's Huria (that's my nick, my real name's Jakqui) and

> I'm almost 20

> weeks pregnant with my first baby. (Baby is due late May). I

> live in Wales,

> UK and am married to my husband Andrej.

>

> I hope you don't mind me asking about something that's really

> been playing on

> my mind.

>

> I wanted to ask the group members, especially vegan ones,

> whether they took

> folic acid and B12

> during pregnancy, especially before pregnancy and during

> first 12 weeks. The

> reason I ask is because in first 12 weeks I had ongoing nausea and my

> nutrition wasn't amazing (although had a lot of fruit)

> because I went off

> nearly all foods. I had the B-complex vitamin tablets, but to

> even put one of

> those yucky tasting pills in my mouth for an instant was too

> much to bear

> most of the time, so I didn't take them that often. I wanted

> to know if any

> of you (or if you know of others similarly) had a similar

> experience where

> you didn't take the folic acid and B12 during those first

> weeks and whether

> your babies were healthy? I'm a bit paranoid that because of

> not taking the

> vitamins I might now have a baby with disabilities, like a

> NTD. It would be

> reassuring to know that babies coming from a similar scenario

> were born

> healthy, but equally I would like to hear if that wasn't the

> case. I'm due to

> have my 20 week scan next Thursday, I was going to try and

> avoid having it,

> like I did the 15 week scan (due to hearing of suspected

> risks to babies from

> ultrasound) but now am feeling so nervous about the above that I'm

> considering having it.

>

> Kindest Best Wishes,

>

> Huria

>

>

>

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Hi Madeline,

 

>Congratulations!

 

Thank you :)

 

>I was really good at taking my vitamins (either pill or

>juice) before I got pregnant and until I was about 6 weeks when nausea set

>in in a big way. I took a multi vitamin whenever I felt I could stomach it

>and later, as the nausea subsided, daily. I, too, worried about NTD (along

>with everything else) but my son was born healthy and has had no problems in

>his 21 mos other than repeated ear infections. I hope this eases your mind a

>little.

 

Thanks for letting me know about this..sounds like you were much better at

taking your vitamins than me! I wasn't taking any vitamins before getting

pregnant (except those naturally occuring in diet of course) because it

wasn't a planned pregnancy. Also I didn't take the folic acid (in form of

B-complex tablet) much at all in those first 12 weeks, because as I said

before they made me feel so bad to take them, nausea wise. It was strange

because I felt so repelled from them..I wonder if my body didn't want/need

them (?? who knows!)

 

It's great to hear you have a healthy baby :)

 

>Enjoy the rest of your pregnancy!

 

Thanks! - and many thanks for responding :)

 

Huria

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Hi Jacqueline,

 

> I didn't take supplements at all during my first pregnancy because they

> made me very ill. For some reason I could manage them fine with my second

> and most of the time with my third.

 

hmm interesting it was ok with the other pregnancies

 

Are you vegan or just veggie btw? Also, if you are vegan, how long for? (B12

stores in the body for quite a while) I'm interested in this because I've

been vegan for nearly 10 years now - although have taken b vitamins on and

off

 

> All my babies were quite healthy. I also had an ultrasound with all three

> of them with no problems. It might be worth having to put your mind at

> rest but it is totally up to you. I am very much for having a natural pg

> but did go along with the ultrasound in the end.

 

Yes, i've been struggling with this one..still am looking into it, but have

recently found some studies and research that indicate it's better not to

have the scan

 

here are the urls to the articles, if anyone here's interested:

 

http://www.aims.org.uk/ultrasound.htm

 

http://www.aims.org.uk/ultra2.htm

 

I'm pleased to hear all your babies are healthy :)

 

Thanks for responding

 

Huria

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Hi Lindsay,

 

>Huria, this is just my opinion (I guess that is what this group is all

>about) I would encourage you to have the 20 week ultrasound. I believe being

>prepared is the best thing you can do for yourself and your new baby.

 

thanks for your opinion Lindsay :) Yes I certainly hear what you're saying as

this is what's been making me struggle to come to a decision. The below urls

link to articles that have swung my decision towards not having the scan, but

I'm still open to hear evidence FOR having the scan

 

http://www.aims.org.uk/ultrasound.htm

 

http://www.aims.org.uk/ultra2.htm

 

>As far as taking the b-12 and folate I do not have much of an answer, I have

>a friend that is a registered dietian and ate by the book including

>supplements and her child has NTD's,

 

how awful :( strange after doing everything she felt right nutritionally.

obviously other factors were involved

 

>but you also have to think that women in generations past have lacked many

>things in their diet and had perfectly healthy babies.

 

yes, very true!

 

> And look at it this way, your are only 1/2 way , you still have 20 weeks to

eat right and take >all the supplements you feel will be beneficial!!

 

well yes true, although evidently the most crucial time to have the folic

acid is in the first few weeks before the spine has completely formed. but

yes there's still developments going on...e.g. with the brain.

 

>Best of luck!!!

 

Thanks! and thanks also for responding :)

 

Huria

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Hi Shelly,

 

>Don't freak out, but it is absolutely imperative that you take both B-12 and

>folic acid every day in pregnancy....especially if you aren't eating much.

 

well, what's done is done i suppose. at least my diet's better since the

sickness went away, after the first trimester

 

>Folic acid is usually high on a vegan diet if one is consuming foods such as

>leafy greens, beans, oranges, etc etc.  You may have been ok on folic acid

>if you were eating anything at all that had some (oranges for example), but

>vegans who are pregnant must supplement b12 every day! This is verrrrry

>important.

 

thanks for the advice. i'm not sure about supplementing every day with b12

because the body only needs a very small amount,and can store it for ages, so

I take a good b complex tablet, but not every day. With regards folic acid, I

was eating quite a bit in early pregnancy (eating loads now!) even though i

felt sick quite a lot. I don't remember much of what i ate...quite a lot of

fruit, definately bananas, as bananas were one of the rarities that i didn't

go off!

 

>Good luck and don't assume anything as there are so many variables as to

>whether your baby suffered damage or not. It doesn't matter what others tell

>you about what happened to them individually because your body is

>different....different digestive system, different vitamin stores, different

>genetic material, etc etc....

 

Thanks. Yes v true regarding different variables

 

>Let us know what you find out.

 

yes, if i have the scan

 

Thanks for responding Shelly :)

 

Huria

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When I was pregnant with my daughter, I had ultrasounds every month from month

5-8 and more often in month 9. My daughter was born 8 days late, the night

before I was going to be induced! I am not too sure about this study... though I

may an exception...

 

Hugs,

 

" My darling girl, when are you going to understand

that being normal isn't necessarily a virtue.

It rather denotes a lack of courage! "

 

Aunt Frances in Practical Magic

 

 

 

 

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In a message dated 1/9/2002 5:18:47 AM Pacific Standard Time,

jak.remec writes:

 

 

> The below urls

> link to articles that have swung my decision towards not having the scan,

> but

> I'm still open to hear evidence FOR having the scan

>

 

I am pregnant right now and talked to my midwife about ultrasounds and her

biggest fear about them is the fact that most of the females who's mother's

had the scan haven't had children yet, she said that there are some " experts "

that believe that they can cause reproductive damage in females. Scary

stuff.

 

Sara

 

 

 

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Huria,

 

I hope you don't worry too much about your nutrition.

It really sounds like you are doing great and

stressing out about things can be more harmful to both

of you. Eat a wide variety of foods, take a B12 or

eat foods high in B12 regularly, and just enjoy every

second of your pregnancy. I really loved being

pregnant...it is such a cool time of life.

 

I want to just say a word about ultrasounds. I got a

ton of them and I would never get another one again.

My story is long so bore you with all the details, but

I also want to say that I have a wonderfully healthy

almost 2 year old boy. He also happens to have a CHD

(congenital heart defect). He has never been on meds,

never needed surgery, never been sick, etc. From the

ultrasounds they were sure he would die soon after

birth if not before. This put an end to our homebirth

plans.

 

I had a wonderful natural birth experience and he had

a perfect apgar, but they took him to NICU for 5 days.

It would have been longer if we hadn't threatened to

sign him out since the cardiologists kept telling us

to take him home...once they are in the NICU system it

is tough to get them out without jumping through

hoops. They never did anything for him in NICU...just

observed him and did a bunch of tests.

 

It has really changed the way I view a lot of things,

but especially how I view the tests they do during

pregnancy and the way we define 'defect' in this

culture.

 

Also, I have two friends who live within a block of

each other. One was told she was having a downs

syndrome baby...perfectly healthy baby. The other did

all the tests and everything came out fine...her baby

has downs. These tests are not 100% accurate, they

are expensive and can cause lots of stress to the

mother and baby.

 

This is just my opinion and I'm sure there are lots of

people out there who are fan of amnios, ultrasounds,

etc. I respect that and it is a personal choice and

it is nice that we have the options.

 

Congratulations!

 

Linda

 

PS I really enjoyed reading Reclaiming Our Health by

John Robbins he talks quite a bit about pregnancy and

women's health issues.

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

I just want to thank all that replied to my intro email a couple of weeks ago

(asking whether you took folic acid and B12 supplements/got adequate natural

in take of these during early/pre pregnancy or not) and that I'm sorry it's

taken me this long to respond. I wanted to reply to each individual one, and

intend to, but have been very busy and decided I wanted to at least say a

general thank you for the time being

 

All the Best

 

Huria

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  • 6 years later...
Guest guest

Thank you for allowing me to participate in your group! I've been

moving toward becoming a vegetarian for several months. My husband is

an absolute carnivore and also does professional bbq! Fortunately, he's

ok with whatever I choose. I don't feel well eating meat and I'm at the

point of not wanting any animal flesh.

I live in northwest Ohio in a rural town. I am self-employed as a

holistic practitioner/massage therapist. I enjoy cooking and trying new

recipes. My husband is game for most anything I prepare so that's fun!

I'm 48 and have grown kids and now grandkids. My youngest son doesn't

much like meat either. I've studied a lot of information about the

blood type diets which is very interesting. I don't agree 100%, but do

find there are definite tendencies. I guess this sounds like ramblings

here and there.....but it's a snippet. Looking forward to discussions

and trying out recipes!

Julie

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Guest guest

Hi Julie...

 

Welcome to the vegetarian group. I am Cheryl from Texas and have been a

vegetarian for a little over a year. It has helped me get back to a normal

healthy weight and I absolutely love eating this way. My husband eats whatever

I cook for him. Occasionally, I still cook some meat for him, but he really

doesn't care one way or the other. He is doing fine too.

 

I have several grandchildren and we are newly retired.

 

Again, welcome!

 

Cheryl

 

 

 

 

I can do everything God asks me to with the help of Christ who gives me the

strength and power. .......Phillipians 4:13

 

 

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total

Access, No Cost.

 

 

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Cheryl just wrote:

 

> I . . . have been a vegetarian for a

> little over a year. It has helped me get back

> to a normal healthy weight and I absolutely

> love eating this way. My husband eats whatever

> I cook for him.

 

Now THAT'S what we love to hear around here!

Congratulations - a year a vegetarian AND back to

a normal weight! Wowieeee. I'll sleep happier

tonight knowing another success story.

 

Thanks for telling Julie that - all newbies

deserve to hear of these triumphs!

 

Love and special hugs, Pat

 

----

http://www.care2.com/c2cvegpets (and others listed on

http://beanvegan.blogspot.com)

" Atrocities are not less atrocities when they occur in laboratories and are

called medical research. " (George Bernard Shaw)

 

 

______________________________\

____

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total

Access, No Cost.

http://tc.deals./tc/blockbuster/text5.com

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