Guest guest Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Hello all! I am in Connecticut and interested in gaining easy recipe ideas to spice up my cooking experience. I look forward to learning more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Welcome - from a neighbor to the west (NYS) Lady Jexie One's life is not as fixed as one believes. Surprises may lie in store for you, the unexpected often tends to happen, sometimes bringing in its train the most delightful change in one's life or circumstances. - Elizabeth Aston --- On Mon, 8/11/08, Miss Nelson <meaningfuloutcomes wrote: Miss Nelson <meaningfuloutcomes New member Monday, August 11, 2008, 4:04 AM Hello all! I am in Connecticut and interested in gaining easy recipe ideas to spice up my cooking experience. I look forward to learning more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Welcome to the group! I have not had much time to post lately, but saw you were from Boston and had to say hi! Boston is, hands down my favorite US city. l lived there for 7 years, hopefully will one day move back! They have such wonderful veg. friendly restaurants and the farmers market there is wonderful! Lorraine Bryda /// Art Director Hatch Studios /// http://hatch-studios.com lbryda telephone: 682/622-9057 efax: 810/821-7760 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Good morning, and thank you for the welcome. I am sorry I didn't say this before, but the things with my family happened years ago. The approach I've always taken with people I know well enough to do so with is to let them know ahead of time, as you suggested, that I don't eat meat. When I don't, or when something has popped up last minute, I've not said anthing eating everything but. When pressed at the dinner table, again for those I don't know well, I'll say something neutral and polite to deter their attention. My approach has always been to deter attention. I always offer to bring an appetizer, also, for the reasons you mentioned. No, I never have given an inch and never would. When in a social situation and am pushed for a response, I apologize and explain. I don't want the host or hostess to feel bad. No, I don't compromise. Ever. I am at work right now but on break. If my answer seems a little short in some regard, please forgive me. Jan Piers Clement <piersalgarve Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:25:42 PM Re: New member Hi Jan, thanks for the mail and welcome to the group! You do seem to lead a healthy and busy life - no problem about the long introduction, these are all issues that concern us all especially the problems with family or others who are not sympathetic towards vegetarianism, we all have to deal with that in different ways. Some thoughts on this: - Let them know in advance about your diet preferences, this gives the possibility of discussion about what is or is not possible - a lot of people don't even know! - Depending on the circumstances, e.g. for a festive occasion you might be able to offer your own vegetarian recipe which would also give the others the opportunity to sample how delicious vegetarian food really is! Look for ideas in our recipe pages under Files. - In fact, traditional festive occasions are sometimes easier to deal with cos you can just ignore the meat and gravy and enjoy the rest. Problem is when you are offered integral menus (western or oriental) which don't give you the opportunity to eat anything else. - Don't give an inch, well I'm sure you wouldn't - if you ever agree under pressure to sample a little of some meat dish, then it will never be forgotten and it makes it very difficult to go back to a stricter diet. Be persistent and consistent! The other problem you mention is, of course, not knowing what ingredients (fats etc.) are involved in the cooking of a dish especially in restaurants and so on - this is an area where you may have to give an inch as you can't always go into detail about the cooking arrangements (though I'm sure many members wouldn't agree with me about this). Safest is, of course, only to visit vegetarian restaurants or those who have a good reputation in providing reliable vegetarian food. Enjoy the list! Piers (co-owner with Pat and Marie) , Jan <starfishgirl529@ ...> wrote: > > Hello. My name is Jan, and I'm a new member. I'm from Boston, Massachusetts, USA where I've lived most of life except for 4 years in Idaho. I've been vegetarian for 7 1/2 years now, but haven't had beef or pork since the 1980's. Right now I do eat a little fish, very little but am quickly headed towards not eating any at all. Along with not eating meat, I also don't eat anything where any part of animal was used to make it, and so that means no soups with beef or chicken broth. I do my best not to buy anything made with leather, but this is very hard to do so. I can't always avoid it, but believe me, I try. I don't eat eggs, but will eat something where it's part of the recipe. I do drink milk. I never knowingly eat anything that's cooked in animal fat. I eat lots of vegetables, meat substitues like Boca burgers, crushed boca burger, tofu, Qourn, and always stock up when any of it's on sale. I'm physically very active. I'm looking to > improve my eating habits and to do so in a more healthy manner. I'm getting into long distance bicycle riding and want to become stronger. I volunteer at a cat adoption center, am currently fostering 6 while having two of my own; Batman and Robin. I work full-time, don't have a family and am going to back to school in January for paralegal certification. My family hasnt always understood my being a vegetarian. Easter one year we were over my brother's and his family's house. My sister-in-law tried pass me the meat platter, and I told her, " No, thank you. " My family said but it was Easter. Wasn't I going to have some ham, and when I told them no, they repeated again that it was Easter. My reply was that I was vegetarian, and that either a person is or isn't. Not just when it's convenient. The samething happened on Thanksgiving. Someone made the comment I was serious, and I said yes, I was. I'm vegetarian because animals are living > breathing things, and each one is someone's mother, father, etc. Cows have feelings and emotions just like humans do. Anyway....I' m sorry. I know this is long for an introduction. I just wasnt sure what and what not to say. > > Jan > > Click on the " Fund Food for Animals " button at The Animal > Rescue Site and give food to an animal living in a shelter > or sanctuary -- at no cost to you. > http://www.theanima lrescuesite. com/tpc/ERA_ 091907_ARS > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Another Jan here with the same experiences. Seems if I don't have some of 'everything' offered food wise at a family function - they take exception. 'Sorry we don't have anythng you want to eat' when I am sitting there with a heaping plate of veggies. But over the years - a lot more veggies being served at the holiday meals. Jan (in northern New York) Learn something new every day As long as you are learning, you are living When you stop learning, you start dying - Jan Monday, August 11, 2008 11:44 AM Re: Re: New member Good morning, and thank you for the welcome. I am sorry I didn't say this before, but the things with my family happened years ago. The approach I've always taken with people I know well enough to do so with is to let them know ahead of time, as you suggested, that I don't eat meat. When I don't, or when something has popped up last minute, I've not said anthing eating everything but. When pressed at the dinner table, again for those I don't know well, I'll say something neutral and polite to deter their attention. My approach has always been to deter attention. I always offer to bring an appetizer, also, for the reasons you mentioned. No, I never have given an inch and never would. When in a social situation and am pushed for a response, I apologize and explain. I don't want the host or hostess to feel bad. No, I don't compromise. Ever. I am at work right now but on break. If my answer seems a little short in some regard, please forgive me. Jan Piers Clement <piersalgarve Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:25:42 PM Re: New member Hi Jan, thanks for the mail and welcome to the group! You do seem to lead a healthy and busy life - no problem about the long introduction, these are all issues that concern us all especially the problems with family or others who are not sympathetic towards vegetarianism, we all have to deal with that in different ways. Some thoughts on this: - Let them know in advance about your diet preferences, this gives the possibility of discussion about what is or is not possible - a lot of people don't even know! - Depending on the circumstances, e.g. for a festive occasion you might be able to offer your own vegetarian recipe which would also give the others the opportunity to sample how delicious vegetarian food really is! Look for ideas in our recipe pages under Files. - In fact, traditional festive occasions are sometimes easier to deal with cos you can just ignore the meat and gravy and enjoy the rest. Problem is when you are offered integral menus (western or oriental) which don't give you the opportunity to eat anything else. - Don't give an inch, well I'm sure you wouldn't - if you ever agree under pressure to sample a little of some meat dish, then it will never be forgotten and it makes it very difficult to go back to a stricter diet. Be persistent and consistent! The other problem you mention is, of course, not knowing what ingredients (fats etc.) are involved in the cooking of a dish especially in restaurants and so on - this is an area where you may have to give an inch as you can't always go into detail about the cooking arrangements (though I'm sure many members wouldn't agree with me about this). Safest is, of course, only to visit vegetarian restaurants or those who have a good reputation in providing reliable vegetarian food. Enjoy the list! Piers (co-owner with Pat and Marie) , Jan <starfishgirl529@ ...> wrote: > > Hello. My name is Jan, and I'm a new member. I'm from Boston, Massachusetts, USA where I've lived most of life except for 4 years in Idaho. I've been vegetarian for 7 1/2 years now, but haven't had beef or pork since the 1980's. Right now I do eat a little fish, very little but am quickly headed towards not eating any at all. Along with not eating meat, I also don't eat anything where any part of animal was used to make it, and so that means no soups with beef or chicken broth. I do my best not to buy anything made with leather, but this is very hard to do so. I can't always avoid it, but believe me, I try. I don't eat eggs, but will eat something where it's part of the recipe. I do drink milk. I never knowingly eat anything that's cooked in animal fat. I eat lots of vegetables, meat substitues like Boca burgers, crushed boca burger, tofu, Qourn, and always stock up when any of it's on sale. I'm physically very active. I'm looking to > improve my eating habits and to do so in a more healthy manner. I'm getting into long distance bicycle riding and want to become stronger. I volunteer at a cat adoption center, am currently fostering 6 while having two of my own; Batman and Robin. I work full-time, don't have a family and am going to back to school in January for paralegal certification. My family hasnt always understood my being a vegetarian. Easter one year we were over my brother's and his family's house. My sister-in-law tried pass me the meat platter, and I told her, " No, thank you. " My family said but it was Easter. Wasn't I going to have some ham, and when I told them no, they repeated again that it was Easter. My reply was that I was vegetarian, and that either a person is or isn't. Not just when it's convenient. The samething happened on Thanksgiving. Someone made the comment I was serious, and I said yes, I was. I'm vegetarian because animals are living > breathing things, and each one is someone's mother, father, etc. Cows have feelings and emotions just like humans do. Anyway....I' m sorry. I know this is long for an introduction. I just wasnt sure what and what not to say. > > Jan > > Click on the " Fund Food for Animals " button at The Animal > Rescue Site and give food to an animal living in a shelter > or sanctuary -- at no cost to you. > http://www.theanima lrescuesite. com/tpc/ERA_ 091907_ARS > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Good morning, everyone, and thank you for the welcome, Pat. I love Boston, too....it's home! And there's no place like home,right? What is pesco-vegetarian? I've not heard of that term before. I've no desire for meat, or fish either anymore, and it's been ages since I bought either. I definitely need to get more protein in my diet, and am always working to do that. I take a multi-vitamin, too...when I can remember! Jan Click on the " Fund Food for Animals " button at The Animal Rescue Site and give food to an animal living in a shelter or sanctuary -- at no cost to you. http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/tpc/ERA_091907_ARS " drpatsant " <drpatsant Sunday, August 10, 2008 4:55:41 PM Re: New member Hi Jan, Welcome to our group! I love Boston (don't even live in the usa but have done so in the past and have since visited many many times) and the whole area there Never been to Idaho, though, so you've got me there! LOL Good for you for heading towards total vegetarianism - sometimes it's not easy, is it? Total sympathy there! I see that one of our co-owners, Piers, has already responded to your post and welcomed you, so this is simply an addendum to that Keep up the good work and do let us know if there is anything we can do to support, advise, help, etc. We love to help! I'm Pat, and I live in Canada with my dh, our little beagle Casey and our tiger-striped cat Misha. I'm originally from the UK but have in recent years lived in New Zealand and Australia as well as in the UK again off and on and the USA - we do seem to get around. I've been a veggie since the early 80s (actually at first I was pesco-vegetarian) , bar a couple of backslides, and changed to vegan after the turn of this new century (which isn't so new any more), as did my dh. Currently, we are tending more and more towards raw, but that's a whole other story and needn't concern this group one little bit! LOL Let's hear from you lots, okay????? Grrrreat!!! All best wishes, Pat (co-owner with Piers and Marie) Hello. My name is Jan, and I'm a new member. I'm from Boston, Massachusetts, USA where I've lived most of life except for 4 years in Idaho. I've been vegetarian for 7 1/2 years now, but haven't had beef or pork since the 1980's. Right now I do eat a little fish, very little but am quickly headed towards not eating any at all. Along with not eating meat, I also don't eat anything where any part of animal was used to make it, and so that means no soups with beef or chicken broth. I do my best not to buy anything made with leather, but this is very hard to do so. I can't always avoid it, but believe me, I try. I don't eat eggs, but will eat something where it's part of the recipe. I do drink milk. I never knowingly eat anything that's cooked in animal fat. I eat lots of vegetables, meat substitues like Boca burgers, crushed boca burger, tofu, Qourn, and always stock up when any of it's on sale. I'm physically very active. I'm looking to improve my eating habits and to do so in a more healthy manner. I'm getting into long distance bicycle riding and want to become stronger. I volunteer at a cat adoption center, am currently fostering 6 while having two of my own; Batman and Robin. I work full-time, don't have a family and am going to back to school in January for paralegal certification. My family hasnt always understood my being a vegetarian. Easter one year we were over my brother's and his family's house. My sister-in-law tried pass me the meat platter, and I told her, " No, thank you. " My family said but it was Easter. Wasn't I going to have some ham, and when I told them no, they repeated again that it was Easter. My reply was that I was vegetarian, and that either a person is or isn't. Not just when it's convenient. The samething happened on Thanksgiving. Someone made the comment I was serious, and I said yes, I was. I'm vegetarian because animals are living breathing things, and each one is someone's mother, father, etc. Cows have feelings and emotions just like humans do. Anyway....I' m sorry. I know this is long for an introduction. I just wasnt sure what and what not to say. Jan Click on the " Fund Food for Animals " button at The Animal Rescue Site and give food to an animal living in a shelter or sanctuary -- at no cost to you. http://www.theanima lrescuesite. com/tpc/ERA_ 091907_ARS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 What part of CT do you live in? I use to go down to Grandby, New London and Groton all the time.I ran into the samething you did when I stopped eating even fish for a whole year, but I know thats because I wasnt eating right, and thats a hard thing to do...least it was for me....when first becoming veggie. I became veggie not all at once but over the years. I stopped eating beef when as a teenager I wanted to lose weight, and then ate less when I became involved in a sport and wanted to get into a particular weight class, and then animal rights is what pushed me the rest of the way. I have 2 cats...soon will have 3. I volunteer at a cat adoption center and am currently fostering 6 kittens along wth my 2. Yes, I've got a full house indeed. Its been a lot of work but a labor of love. Jan Click on the " Fund Food for Animals " button at The Animal Rescue Site and give food to an animal living in a shelter or sanctuary -- at no cost to you. http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/tpc/ERA_091907_ARS " bunmomsue " <bunmomsue Monday, August 11, 2008 12:19:29 AM Re: New member I live in central Ct. I tried getting off of meat cold turkey (pardon the expression) for about 3 months. I then started feeling tired and weak. I think I just did not know how to do it. So my vegetarian friend said to start slowling not all at once. I cofounded a rabbit rescue and netwerk with many animal lovers. I saw a gross movie and that is why I really wanted to try going vegetarian besides meeting more people involved in rescues that are vegetarian. I also have some minor health problems and am not sure if I need certain foods. -- Susan, Tabitha & Pumpkin Pie, Six & Drifter, Jordan, Iceberg, Peanut, Samantha, Baily & Nokki ------------ -- Original message ------------ -- Jan <starfishgirl529@ > Hello. My name is Jan, and I'm a new member. I'm from Boston, Massachusetts, USA where I've lived most of life except for 4 years in Idaho. I've been vegetarian for 7 1/2 years now, but haven't had beef or pork since the 1980's. Right now I do eat a little fish, very little but am quickly headed towards not eating any at all. Along with not eating meat, I also don't eat anything where any part of animal was used to make it, and so that means no soups with beef or chicken broth. I do my best not to buy anything made with leather, but this is very hard to do so. I can't always avoid it, but believe me, I try. I don't eat eggs, but will eat something where it's part of the recipe. I do drink milk. I never knowingly eat anything that's cooked in animal fat. I eat lots of vegetables, meat substitues like Boca burgers, crushed boca burger, tofu, Qourn, and always stock up when any of it's on sale. I'm physically very active. I'm looking to improve my eating habits and to do so in a more healthy manner. I'm getting into long distance bicycle riding and want to become stronger. I volunteer at a cat adoption center, am currently fostering 6 while having two of my own; Batman and Robin. I work full-time, don't have a family and am going to back to school in January for paralegal certification. My family hasnt always understood my being a vegetarian. Easter one year we were over my brother's and his family's house. My sister-in-law tried pass me the meat platter, and I told her, " No, thank you. " My family said but it was Easter. Wasn't I going to have some ham, and when I told them no, they repeated again that it was Easter. My reply was that I was vegetarian, and that either a person is or isn't. Not just when it's convenient. The samething happened on Thanksgiving. Someone made the comment I was serious, and I said yes, I was. I'm vegetarian because animals are living breathing things, and each one is someone's mother, father, etc. Cows have feelings and emotions just like humans do. Anyway....I' m sorry. I know this is long for an introduction. I just wasnt sure what and what not to say. Jan Click on the " Fund Food for Animals " button at The Animal Rescue Site and give food to an animal living in a shelter or sanctuary -- at no cost to you. http://www.theanima lrescuesite. com/tpc/ERA_ 091907_ARS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 I would be interested in recipes also. One thing I love is cucumber salad, and I started mixing that with different squashes. I also love to mix in crushed boca burger or boca hamburger subsititute with pasta. I havent had breakfast yet and this is making me hungry. Jan Click on the " Fund Food for Animals " button at The Animal Rescue Site and give food to an animal living in a shelter or sanctuary -- at no cost to you. http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/tpc/ERA_091907_ARS Miss Nelson <meaningfuloutcomes Monday, August 11, 2008 4:04:17 AM New member Hello all! I am in Connecticut and interested in gaining easy recipe ideas to spice up my cooking experience. I look forward to learning more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Its nice to hear of someone with similar experience. I think my family thought of it as a joke at a first....didnt think I was serious, but I think I earned their respect when they found out I was, and I was polite about it too! Jan Click on the " Fund Food for Animals " button at The Animal Rescue Site and give food to an animal living in a shelter or sanctuary -- at no cost to you. http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/tpc/ERA_091907_ARS JonquilJan <ward39 Monday, August 11, 2008 5:30:25 PM Re: Re: New member Another Jan here with the same experiences. Seems if I don't have some of 'everything' offered food wise at a family function - they take exception. 'Sorry we don't have anythng you want to eat' when I am sitting there with a heaping plate of veggies. But over the years - a lot more veggies being served at the holiday meals. Jan (in northern New York) Learn something new every day As long as you are learning, you are living When you stop learning, you start dying - Jan Monday, August 11, 2008 11:44 AM Re: Re: New member Good morning, and thank you for the welcome. I am sorry I didn't say this before, but the things with my family happened years ago. The approach I've always taken with people I know well enough to do so with is to let them know ahead of time, as you suggested, that I don't eat meat. When I don't, or when something has popped up last minute, I've not said anthing eating everything but. When pressed at the dinner table, again for those I don't know well, I'll say something neutral and polite to deter their attention. My approach has always been to deter attention. I always offer to bring an appetizer, also, for the reasons you mentioned. No, I never have given an inch and never would. When in a social situation and am pushed for a response, I apologize and explain. I don't want the host or hostess to feel bad. No, I don't compromise. Ever. I am at work right now but on break. If my answer seems a little short in some regard, please forgive me. Jan Piers Clement <piersalgarve@ .co. uk> Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:25:42 PM Re: New member Hi Jan, thanks for the mail and welcome to the group! You do seem to lead a healthy and busy life - no problem about the long introduction, these are all issues that concern us all especially the problems with family or others who are not sympathetic towards vegetarianism, we all have to deal with that in different ways. Some thoughts on this: - Let them know in advance about your diet preferences, this gives the possibility of discussion about what is or is not possible - a lot of people don't even know! - Depending on the circumstances, e.g. for a festive occasion you might be able to offer your own vegetarian recipe which would also give the others the opportunity to sample how delicious vegetarian food really is! Look for ideas in our recipe pages under Files. - In fact, traditional festive occasions are sometimes easier to deal with cos you can just ignore the meat and gravy and enjoy the rest. Problem is when you are offered integral menus (western or oriental) which don't give you the opportunity to eat anything else. - Don't give an inch, well I'm sure you wouldn't - if you ever agree under pressure to sample a little of some meat dish, then it will never be forgotten and it makes it very difficult to go back to a stricter diet. Be persistent and consistent! The other problem you mention is, of course, not knowing what ingredients (fats etc.) are involved in the cooking of a dish especially in restaurants and so on - this is an area where you may have to give an inch as you can't always go into detail about the cooking arrangements (though I'm sure many members wouldn't agree with me about this). Safest is, of course, only to visit vegetarian restaurants or those who have a good reputation in providing reliable vegetarian food. Enjoy the list! Piers (co-owner with Pat and Marie) , Jan <starfishgirl529@ ...> wrote: > > Hello. My name is Jan, and I'm a new member. I'm from Boston, Massachusetts, USA where I've lived most of life except for 4 years in Idaho. I've been vegetarian for 7 1/2 years now, but haven't had beef or pork since the 1980's. Right now I do eat a little fish, very little but am quickly headed towards not eating any at all. Along with not eating meat, I also don't eat anything where any part of animal was used to make it, and so that means no soups with beef or chicken broth. I do my best not to buy anything made with leather, but this is very hard to do so. I can't always avoid it, but believe me, I try. I don't eat eggs, but will eat something where it's part of the recipe. I do drink milk. I never knowingly eat anything that's cooked in animal fat. I eat lots of vegetables, meat substitues like Boca burgers, crushed boca burger, tofu, Qourn, and always stock up when any of it's on sale. I'm physically very active. I'm looking to > improve my eating habits and to do so in a more healthy manner. I'm getting into long distance bicycle riding and want to become stronger. I volunteer at a cat adoption center, am currently fostering 6 while having two of my own; Batman and Robin. I work full-time, don't have a family and am going to back to school in January for paralegal certification. My family hasnt always understood my being a vegetarian. Easter one year we were over my brother's and his family's house. My sister-in-law tried pass me the meat platter, and I told her, " No, thank you. " My family said but it was Easter. Wasn't I going to have some ham, and when I told them no, they repeated again that it was Easter. My reply was that I was vegetarian, and that either a person is or isn't. Not just when it's convenient. The samething happened on Thanksgiving. Someone made the comment I was serious, and I said yes, I was. I'm vegetarian because animals are living > breathing things, and each one is someone's mother, father, etc. Cows have feelings and emotions just like humans do. Anyway....I' m sorry. I know this is long for an introduction. I just wasnt sure what and what not to say. > > Jan > > Click on the " Fund Food for Animals " button at The Animal > Rescue Site and give food to an animal living in a shelter > or sanctuary -- at no cost to you. > http://www.theanima lrescuesite. com/tpc/ERA_ 091907_ARS > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 Hi I have not heard of boca burger, please let me know what is it? and how do u eat it. Txs Lalit --- On Tue, 8/12/08, Jan <starfishgirl529 wrote: Jan <starfishgirl529 Re: New member Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 4:34 AM I would be interested in recipes also. One thing I love is cucumber salad, and I started mixing that with different squashes. I also love to mix in crushed boca burger or boca hamburger subsititute with pasta. I havent had breakfast yet and this is making me hungry. Jan Click on the " Fund Food for Animals " button at The Animal Rescue Site and give food to an animal living in a shelter or sanctuary -- at no cost to you. http://www.theanima lrescuesite. com/tpc/ERA_ 091907_ARS Miss Nelson <meaningfuloutcomes@ > Monday, August 11, 2008 4:04:17 AM New member Hello all! I am in Connecticut and interested in gaining easy recipe ideas to spice up my cooking experience. I look forward to learning more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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