I'm new

June 21, 2001

My son is 11 and has been vegetarian all his life. I am vegetarian and his

father is not, and even though we divorced when Jackson was 4, he supports

my decision to raise our son meat-free.

If you teach your child to love animals, it is not a stretch to think of

that love when it comes time to consider what to eat. When Jackson was

younger, I'd tell him that he and I are vegetarians because, to paraphrase

George Bernard Shaw, 'Animals are our friends and we don't eat our friends.'

To this day, my son loves animals and cannot understand why people eat them.

To him it is 'disgusting'.

I truly believe if you leave the decision about meat-eating up to the child

at too young an age, the child will likely yield to the temptation to eat

it - especially if those he loves treat eating meat as normal. He may want

to eat it to please the meat-eating parent or grandparent. Of course, for

those of us who were raised eating meat, fowl and fish, the taste of the

dead animal was not the reason we stopped eating meat, so I don't believe it

is a valid reason for starting to eat meat. Something can taste quite good

and it can still be bad for you, the animals and the environment and be

ethically 'wrong'.

More and more evidence piles up that eating meat is not good for the human

body. It's only one part of the picture and I have no scientific evidence to

support my suspicion, but I have also believed that there is a connection

between eating meat and childhood cancer. Now, of course, we have the

specter of Mad Cow Disease and Foot and Mouth Disease, along with the

hormones, antibiotics and other medications pumped into the animals

slaughtered or milked for food.

There are many reasons for becoming vegetarian/vegan. If we consider the

following five reasons (and I know there are others!): 1. Health, 2.

Environmental/World Hunger, 3. Animal Welfare, 4. Financial, 5. Religious,

about the only motivation that a child can easily understand and remember is

animal welfare. (I suppose religious reasons would also make a strong

impression, but the child would likely also be part of a supportive

community of like-minded people.)

Most of us have to deal with the isolation of our choice to be vegetarian.

We have to actively seek out other vegetarians/vegans to find our

'community' and support for our choice. It's not an easy route for a child

to be 'different' because of a choice his/her parent has made. But if you

look at vegetarianism as an ethical choice, it is very difficult to consider

eating flesh when you know that the choice to eat meat results in the gross

suffering and premature death of helpless animals.

I like to think that most vegetarians are more 'evolved' than flesh-eaters.

We are setting new standards for a civilized society, to consider the impact

of our choices and choose a responsible, caring response that will make the

world a healthier, kinder place for all.

Live and let live.

Wendy

June 21, 2001

Hi Wendy,

I have been working on this but I became vegetarian only 5yrs ago so the kids

had started off eating meat I'm afraid. I make no mistake about the fact that

they are eating dead animals when they eat meat. I think this already is in

their mind and tugs at them a bit. Especially my daughter who is almost 9. I

have told them not to eat beef because of the dangers (yes I know there are

dangers with other meats too but I'm trying to do this one step at a time). It

is just hard to do when my ex tells them that being vegetarian is bad for

you,etc. I can't control the food that he offers them. I was wondering if any

of you know of any good books about vegetarianism for children?

Maybe taking them to see a farm so that they can see animals that later are

eaten would help. It is hard to see a cow's gentle eyes and then think about

eating it. Piglets are also really cute. What do you think?

I also thought that talking about the Walkerton tragedy (In Ontario where

several people died due to e-coli in the water supply that was contaminated by a

huge cattle farm) might help them understand how livestock farms pollute our

streams.

Jacqueline

June 21, 2001

Hi Jacqueline:

Of course, it's very difficult when your ex is working at cross purposes

with you by telling the children that being a vegetarian is unhealthy.

That's another issue to add to the ones where the children are in the middle

of parents who are no longer together. I think all you can do is insist that

in your home, the children will not eat meat because vegetarian food is all

that will be served.

Unfortunately, as you said, just as you cannot control what time the

children go to bed or what the household rules are at your ex's house, you

cannot control the food they eat when they are with him. I would urge you to

repeat to your children that you have looked very carefully at the research

and are convinced that being a vegetarian is healthiest for children and

adults. Try to be firm and fact-based. Resist getting into a " Well, Daddy

says... " argument because that just adds to the conflict. When they are with

you, your kids must abide by your rules and know that the food you serve

them will keep them healthy. I don't think it will be easy, because kids

know how to push our buttons, but you have to be strong and make the

parenting decision that you believe is best for them.

Maybe it would be a good idea to look into the meat 'analogues' that are

slowly making their way into grocery stores (and are available, of course,

in natural food stores). These are products that look and taste like the

meat-based original. This will show them that they can eat food that looks

like what they're used to eating, but is not dead animals. Surely, your kids

would like to eat veggie burgers and soy hot dogs (try Yves' brand for

traditional flavour). Yves and President's Choice have 'ground round', a soy

product that looks and tastes like ground beef that you could use in

spaghetti, chili and tacos. In the freezer section, there are also products

that look and taste like 'chicken nuggets' and chicken burgers.

Your new baby will be at your home all the time and will follow your rules

even if . Later you can explain that the other children eat what they are

served at their father's house, but when they're with you they eat what you

think is best. That's a variation on what I tell my son when he says he

doesn't understand why people eat meat. We talk about how people like to eat

the same things they ate when they were growing up and how they think that

what they are eating is healthy food. We talk about making choices and

everyone has to make up their own mind about being a vegetarian. (Everyone,

that is, who is old enough to make an informed decision.)

I don't envy you this problem Jacqueline. Just concentrate on controlling

what you can and letting go of what you can't. Your children have the best

examples of the effects of healthy eating in front of them - you, your new

husband and their sibling. There's hope they'll see things your way!! Be

patient and be strong!! YOU are right.

Wendy

August 7, 2002

i believe that you can, in fact, shred Seitan, though i have personally never tried it. i usually buy it already made or buy the box of seitan mix from the store and use that....another thought of something you may want to look for is TVP (textured vegetable protien). sometimes you can find it already flavored, but if not, you can flavor it yourself. it has the texture of ground meat, comes dry, and all you do is add water you can usually find it in the bulk section of a health food store, and it is relatively inexpensive. i've marinated it before in soy sauce and other spices to make it taste more meaty, with huge success

welcome to the list!

cherrie

Kelley C Smith <smithkc Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:54 PM I'm newWell, I've lurked a while. I'm not a complete vegan, but I'm interested in cutting down on meats for my family (family still wants meat) and I'm interested in saving money, as I'm a SAHM. My family does like Yves Veggie Ground Round {YVGR}. I still think it's a little expensive for our budget. I am wondering about a homemade alternative. Was watching a video about how to make seitan. I'm wondering if I could make seitan, then shred it in the food processor for something like YVGR. I think YVGR is soy-based. It seems more firm than the firmest tofu I've ever seen though. Anyone have suggestions?KelleyOklahoma City

August 8, 2002

TVP

Textured Vegetable Protien ----Comes from soy beans

..... make sure that the source is not ... that is NOT

.... GE (Genetically Engineered) Soy.

Tempeh

Also a soy bean based food product but with spelt also

(spelt is a very low glutonous form of wheat) The soy

beans are treated with a bacteria whis is allowed to

grow before the processing begins. Very good ...

super excellent ... product for vegans especially to

esat ... super high Vitamin B 12 content

Seitan

Made from wheat gluten ... therefore it would be an

understatement to say it is highly glutenous

It is high in protien ... and for those that love the

taste of dead animal ... it will give that illusion to

food.

Hope this helps

" A "

--- glitterophelia <res19o3d wrote:

> i believe that you can, in fact, shred Seitan,

> though i have personally never tried it. i usually

> buy it already made or buy the box of seitan mix

> from the store and use that....another thought of

> something you may want to look for is TVP (textured

> vegetable protien). sometimes you can find it

> already flavored, but if not, you can flavor it

> yourself. it has the texture of ground meat, comes

> dry, and all you do is add water you can usually

> find it in the bulk section of a health food store,

> and it is relatively inexpensive. i've marinated it

> before in soy sauce and other spices to make it

> taste more meaty, with huge success

>

> welcome to the list!

>

> cherrie

>

> Kelley C Smith <smithkc

>

> Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:54 PM

> I'm new

>

> Well, I've lurked a while. I'm not a complete

> vegan, but I'm interested

> in cutting down on meats for my family (family

> still wants meat) and I'm

> interested in saving money, as I'm a SAHM. My

> family does like Yves

> Veggie Ground Round {YVGR}. I still think it's a

> little expensive for

> our budget. I am wondering about a homemade

> alternative. Was watching a

> video about how to make seitan. I'm wondering if I

> could make seitan,

> then shred it in the food processor for something

> like YVGR. I think

> YVGR is soy-based. It seems more firm than the

> firmest tofu I've ever

> seen though. Anyone have suggestions?

>

> Kelley

> Oklahoma City

>

July 12, 2006

Carol,

Welcome! I have the same hubby issues that you do, and I too prepare two meals

every day. I am actually looking forward to the next cold & flu season so see

which one of us handles it better this year. I am betting on my mostly raw

vegan plan or his SAD one.

Leah

Carol Minnick <carolminnick wrote:

Hi everyone!

Iï¿½m new here, invited by HeatherJoy (hi HeatherJoy ï¿½ thanks for telling me

about this group!)

Iï¿½ve been a vegetarian for several years, and working my way toward vegan.

I still cheat once in a while though. Iï¿½m always looking for quick and easy

recipes, whether they be raw or cooked, because I prepare two meals every day

for dinner. Hubby is a meat and potatoes guy, and of course throw in a lot of

extra junk food during the day.

July 12, 2006

Welcome, Carol!

It must be hard to see the people you love harm their bodies. Best wishes

with the evolution to veganism!

Mary

Carol Minnick <carolminnick wrote:

Hi everyone!

Iï¿½m new here, invited by HeatherJoy (hi HeatherJoy ï¿½ thanks for telling me

about this group!)

Iï¿½ve been a vegetarian for several years, and working my way toward vegan.

I still cheat once in a while though. Iï¿½m always looking for quick and easy

recipes, whether they be raw or cooked, because I prepare two meals every day

for dinner. Hubby is a meat and potatoes guy, and of course throw in a lot of

extra junk food during the day...

My two kids (married with kids of their own) unfortunately have taken up the

Dad Way of Eating, and passed that on to their kids.

April 23, 2007

Hi Laurie, welcome!

I love your enthusiasm. ) Can you talk some more about how breakfast is going? Are you managing all 4 parts consistently: enough protein, a complex carb, within an hour of getting out of bed, and doing all of this every day?

Breakfast totally lays the foundation for the other steps. I've been doing the program for 2 years (I'm on step 7), and I'm "revisiting" step 1 by focusing on what options make me feel best. I'm interested to hear what suits you! cheers, Cinzia

, "l_seidman" <l_seidman wrote:>> Hey everyone, I've been doing the program for about 5 weeks. I'm > pretty steady on step one and have started step 2. I had already cut > out whites and sugar and am also working on the 3 meal step. That is a > big big challenge. I think I'm going to really like this group. I've > already read some posts on nut milk that have been of help. I've been > wondering about unsweetened nuts milks other than soy. I'm alittle > staying away from the almond milk with all of those grams of sugar but > maybe I'll try it and see. I just found a nonsweetened natural vanilla > flavored soy milk I will try soon with my oatmeal. I really like the > ezekiel breads. Does anyone else like them or have troulbe with them? > I was buying them the other day and for some reason (and I've never > felt like these breads were a probem actually quite the opposite) I was > heitant to buy the sesame sprouted (was it?) whole wheat bread. I eat > fish and eggs. I just started eating them pretty much when I started > the progam. I felt I needed the protein and the B-12 and I don't want > to eat soo much soy. I'm not that into beans. Although I used to LOVE > any of the sweetened canned beans--gee I wonder why?! hee,hee. That's > it for now. Looking forward to some great ideas. Laurie>

April 24, 2007

I use the sesame ezekiel bread and have never had a problem with it.

Allison

>l_seidman <l_seidman

>Apr 23, 2007 1:52 AM

>

> I'm new

>

>Hey everyone, I've been doing the program for about 5 weeks. I'm

>pretty steady on step one and have started step 2. I had already cut

>out whites and sugar and am also working on the 3 meal step. That is a

>big big challenge. I think I'm going to really like this group. I've

>already read some posts on nut milk that have been of help. I've been

>wondering about unsweetened nuts milks other than soy. I'm alittle

>staying away from the almond milk with all of those grams of sugar but

>maybe I'll try it and see. I just found a nonsweetened natural vanilla

>flavored soy milk I will try soon with my oatmeal. I really like the

>ezekiel breads. Does anyone else like them or have troulbe with them?

>I was buying them the other day and for some reason (and I've never

>felt like these breads were a probem actually quite the opposite) I was

>heitant to buy the sesame sprouted (was it?) whole wheat bread. I eat

>fish and eggs. I just started eating them pretty much when I started

>the progam. I felt I needed the protein and the B-12 and I don't want

>to eat soo much soy. I'm not that into beans. Although I used to LOVE

>any of the sweetened canned beans--gee I wonder why?! hee,hee. That's

>it for now. Looking forward to some great ideas. Laurie

>

August 31, 2008

HI all thanks for letting me join. This is why I am here. I am a 47 old

mom of six, am married live on a farm in North East Nebr. I have lived

on a farm all my life only other place for me would be close to

mountains somewhere as I love them and the beauty they have. I love to

garden, veggies and flowers. Collect recipes. I also have two

grandkids. My oldest is a RN, my second is almost a teacher, my third

is going to a tech school. And I have three more at home. The reason I

am here is because I have always suffered with tmj, but now the doctor

said my jaw is now out of its joint. My back teethe on the right side

hit, and I can only open my mouth 25% so I need to eat softer and

different protein I have never been much of a meat eater as I could

never chew it. So I am anxious to learn how you all get your protein

and some recipes. Thanks so much for letting me join. Debbie

August 31, 2008

Welcome, Debbie!

You certainly do have yourself a problem, eh? Well, I think you may have come to

the right place. One of the first things most members will tell you is that

people, especially omnivores (er, non-vegetarians) generally think they need

more protein than they really do. (We do try to keep abreast of current

nutritional and medical thinking and that's the way it's tending for health.)

Secondly, we have great ideas for preparing foods that have lots of good

nutritional value and which shouldn't be difficult for you to manage with your

particular problem.

Please have a look through our Files (you received info on this when you joined)

and check out all the wonderful possibilities for exciting vegetarian cuisine.

Who knows, this difficulty you are having might prove to be a way for you to

find a whole new way of eating which you actually prefer to your former one!

That's what Vegetarian Spice is about - spicing up the vegetarian experience

Please let's hear from you often, and if you have any questions, just ask! We

love to help.

Best, Pat (Co-owner with Piers and Marie)

--- On Sun, 8/31/08, debbie26111 <debbie26111 wrote:

debbie26111 <debbie26111

I'm new

Sunday, August 31, 2008, 8:51 AM

HI all thanks for letting me join. This is why I am here. I am a 47

old