Guest guest Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 It is good to have read that Pat, John, Rain, and L.L. Scott found the term " khessedan " of interest, that the concept describes John's own practice well, and that Rain has correctly intuited the derivation of the word. (Their messages are below.) During the years when I was making my food choices with great care for animal welfare while also reaching beyond grain, beans, soy, and vegetables for some of my protein, I never could find an English-language word describing my practice. In my May 23 message (below) I briefly discuss why neither " vegetarianism " nor " veganism " was applicable. " Pescatarian/pescetarian " didn't fit, either. Some six or eight years ago I was studying the first book of the Torah, reading the original Hebrew with weekly help from a rabbi's wife. I became intrigued by the Hebrew word " khe-sed, " which means " kindness, " and adapted the word to describe my diet. For a while I thought about creating a business of selling the eggs of well-treated hens, thought about using " Khes-sed " and " Khessedan " as marketing terms. But I haven't created that business, so to date probably only a few thousand people have ever seen or heard the words. Maybe all publication so far has been on Internet lists--that would explain why a Google search doesn't uncover the words. Pronunciation and spelling notes (feel free to skip this paragraph if it's not of interest): Hebrew uses a different alphabet than English does, and the usual English-language spelling of the Hebrew word is " chesed. " But the initial " ch " of that spelling would confuse people unfamiliar with Hebrew. It's not the " ch " of " charity " or even the " ch " of " charisma " ; instead it stands for a consonant sound that we don't really have in English--it's very close to the " ch " in " Johann Sebastian Bach. " Another difference between the languages is that " chesed " doesn't rhyme with " teased " ; instead it's pronounced as two syllables, each syllable with a short " e. " It almost rhymes with our Biblical two-syllable " blessed, " except that the second syllable of " chesed " is stressed just as strongly as the first. I've been assuming that many people, seeing the idea written as " khessedanism, " would pronounce it " kessedanism, " and that a smaller number would opt for using the " Bach " ch-sound for the " kh. " I'd love to see the term " khessedanism " come into general use. We don't seem to have another word for the concept, and I believe it's a concept of some importance. I'd think lots of people would like to incorporate khessedan principles into their diets--to an extent--even though most wouldn't feel able to make the sacrifices demanded by veganism, vegetarianism, any sort of strict khessedan adherence. Having an accepted word for the concept should greatly facilitate bringing the idea to people's attention and thus should help lessen animals' suffering. Do you agree? Lynn ------- (*was* ROLL CALL) Now: khessedan, pescatarian, vegetarian, vegan, etc. Sat, 23 May 2009 11:34:49 -0500 John Daleske <john References: <4A17C4C3.4090100 <522601.39035.qm <29CA4D645BD94715BFA34F578D96C669@ReinaPC> <591071.73383.qm Hi Pat, I very much appreciate your kind, soul-filled words. I agree that pollo-vegetarian and other variants makes no sense. Pescetarian specifically identifies the top level of the food chain consumed. Pollotarian would make more sense, but sounds more like a political party... Also agree with your statement that we don't need to consume any of the walking, crawling, flying, entities around us. Yes, we are all at various stages. Some of us cook for families that are non-vegetarian, so moving my wife from mostly beef and chicken to mostly fish and sometimes completely vegetarian has taken some time and patience, but mostly successful. (I don't tell her what to choose when we go out, but if I'm cooking, generally she'll eat it so I pick the more healthy direction, which is non-meat. Some times I compromise with pesce.) Agreed with your point that it is still killing and does a hierarchy really exist. I don't see it is a spiritual-religious hierarchy, but I do recognize the levels in the sense of food chain. Now, I have friends who are sensitive enough to sense the beings in plants. I'm not sensitive to that, but can recognize their sincerity. Does it not extend that we should also not kill plants? Even bacteria are alive. So, should we make sure we don't consume bacteria? Should we only consume up to the level where we aren't sensitive to the life being consumed? It is easy to see the intelligence of mammals (well, except maybe except for our dalmatian ;-), for any warm-blooded creature. As one moves down the food chain toward plankton it becomes less easy to sense the entity as being intelligent and thus we rationalize that it is ok to consume them. If spiritually sensitive, one can sense the life in all of the creatures and for some, even in plants. My sensitive friends still eat up to some level, but typically most are vegetarian, though one definitely is not, yet he seems to be able to sense and communicate with all the levels. I know, the argument gets to a point of banality. I sincerely respect and admire the path of those who work to walk this world trying to avoid killing creatures. Problem is, we get energy from something; it is all an energy exchange. Better to keep it to lower levels than upper (as in food chain). I have rationalized myself from the upper levels down to pesce and working toward removing that as well. It is a rationalization to what level one goes. For some, it is recognizing the spirit, the essence of those entities, for others it is recognizing that toxins build up in higher level consumers, so better to eat lower on the consumption tree. What ever we consume, I feel the approach of many groups (often indiginous) of thanking the entity we are to about kill and consume, whether fleshed or plant, is a great way of acknowledging. This care, this concern, this love, this *chesed* (or *khessed*) approach seems important. I would hope we can all move to the lower levels. Now, maybe moving this topic toward an even more spiritual bent, I've heard some folks raise the idea that maybe we'll be able to move away from needing energy from other entities at all. No, not that we would genetically modify our skin to add photosynthesis genes (but that might be a cool science fiction story!) but changing our vibrational level. Must say I don't follow the thinking, yet, but an interesting concept. + John ------- Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: ROLL CALL AND THREE QUESTIONS FOR _ALL_ MEMBERS]] - spotterfly Sat, 23 May 2009 08:56:17 -0700 (PDT) drpatsant <drpatsant References: <231696.65089.qm Hi Spotterfly! Oh it's not easy for pescatarians and other omnivores on this group, is it?! We do ask, however, that all members refrain from explaining or justifying an omnivore eating style on this group, as it goes against vegetarian principles and practice and is upsetting to many members. I know you didn't mean to offend but to support Lynn in her choices (and I applaud the sisterly intent), but perhaps this kind of thing is better kept off-list? Thanks heaps. And yes, I'm delighted that you have been able to give up some forms of animal flesh Good for you! That's a great start! Many of us go through a pescatarian phase before becoming vegetarian, just as many become ovo-lacto-vegetarians or lacto-vegetarians before going vegan. It's all a process, I think, although some decide that they prefer to keep ovo-lacto than go further. In that case, many try to minimize the cruelty by buying eggs, milk, butter, and cheese from respected local farmers who are dedicated to a (relatively) cruelty-free existence for their animals. Ahhh, the compromises we make, eh? LOL Best luck, and when you decide you want to move on to vegetarianism and/or veganism, give us a shout and we'll help you to do it as painlessly for you as possible, okay? Pat (Co-owner with Piers) --- http://www.vegandonelight.com/spice http://beanvegan.blogspot.com http://river-rambles.blogspot.com " As long as you derive inner help and comfort from anything, keep it. " Mahatma Gandhi. ________________________________ Thanks, Lynn, for this great new (to me) word! I'm the same as you are about fish. Yes, I do still feel sorry for the fishies, but at least they lived a free life in their natural habitat. I do try to avoid farmed fish, for health reasons as well as ethics. I'm blessed to live in Florida in that sense, being surrounded by water ) I just wanted to thank Lynn for sharing that word and her philosophy on being a pesco. Please no hate mail. Please just be happy that I whittled away red meat many years ago, and poultry for the last few. I promise not to say anything further about my consumption. And I will say that being a vegan does appeal to me. ------- Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: ROLL CALL AND THREE QUESTIONS FOR _ALL_ MEMBERS]] Sat, 23 May 2009 08:44:50 -0700 (PDT) drpatsant <drpatsant References: <4A17C4C3.4090100 <522601.39035.qm <29CA4D645BD94715BFA34F578D96C669@ReinaPC> Hi John, Thanks for your input here - very useful. I also find that merciful eating is a comforting thought - as is merciful living - but eating wild fish doesn't really help much because the poor creature is still killed instead of continuing to live free. One might just as well argue that putting a bullet in, say, one of a herd of wild deer would be 'merciful', although I am aware that many people think that there is and should be a hierarchy or animal life, mammals at the top and fish/sea creatures followed by insect life, etc., at the bottom And this is where I go on record as saying: We do not _need_ to eat animal flesh in any form - and by 'animal' vegetarians mean the flesh of any once-living creature, including those that fly, swim, crawl, etc. OK, finished now I haven't read the book you mention. I'll see if it's in our library (it's a good library!) but I won't purchase it if it advocates eating non-veggie things. 'Pescatarian' is a useful word. It correctly describes those who eat no animal flesh _except_ for fish, regardless of whether or not they eat eggs and/or dairy. Some say 'pesco-vegetarian' but that makes as much sense as saying 'pollo-vegetarian' (meaning those who eat chicken) or 'pesco-pollo-vegetarian' - both of which make the rounds occasionally - since it negates the concept 'vegetarian'. There are several pescatarians on this group, some of whom plan to give up the pesco part of their diet in future and others who don't. We're a varied lot, aren't we! (Just checked my library online. Nope. They don't have the book.) Best, Pat --- http://www.vegandonelight.com/spice http://beanvegan.blogspot.com http://river-rambles.blogspot.com " As long as you derive inner help and comfort from anything, keep it. " Mahatma Gandhi. ________________________________ The concept as describes fits me well. I had found " The Hippy Gourmet's Quick and Simple Cookbook for Healthy Eating " last year. He described that he was a pescatarian, which I had also not heard before. That pretty well fit me, but I like that added tone of concern defined in " khessedan " . The Hippy Gourmet actually expressed that level of concern in his discussion on pescatarian, so they are similar to that regard. + John I've not run across the term Khessedan previously (I must lead a sheltered life, eh?) - and looking it up didn't help either. Origins??? ------- Re: Re: ROLL CALL AND THREE QUESTIONS FOR _ALL_ MEMBERS]] - 'khesedan' origin Sat, 23 May 2009 08:20:15 -0700 (PDT) drpatsant <drpatsant References: <4A17C4C3.4090100 <522601.39035.qm <4A18020F.30403 Thanks, Rain. I made an uninformed guess of a similar kind, but hadn't a clue how else it might be spelt, so didn't get anywhere Being completely ignorant (apologies to those who aren't) about such things, do I guess further that the 'k' in the word would be or should be silent? In the original? In its applied form as used originally on this list? Helps if you want to be able to say it, I think. Love, Pat ------- Re: Re: ROLL CALL AND THREE QUESTIONS FOR _ALL_ MEMBERS]] Sat, 23 May 2009 09:41:05 -0500 L.L. Scott <llscott2000 References: <4A17C4C3.4090100 <522601.39035.qm <4A18020F.30403 Another bonus from this list, Very educational. >> >> I've not run across the term Khessedan previously (I must lead a >> sheltered life, eh?) - and looking it up didn't help either. Origins??? >> >> > > I'm guessing this is from the Hebrew _/chesed,/_/ or /_/ khesed,/_, > meaning " mercy " . So a khesedan > diet would be merciful, i.e., cruelty-free. Did I get that right? > > Rain > @@@@ > \\\\ ------- Re: ROLL CALL AND THREE QUESTIONS FOR _ALL_ MEMBERS]] Sat, 23 May 2009 10:02:55 -0400 bluezinnia References: <4A17C4C3.4090100 <522601.39035.qm drpatsant wrote: > Hi Lynne, > > I've not run across the term Khessedan previously (I must lead a sheltered life, eh?) - and looking it up didn't help either. Origins??? > > I'm guessing this is from the Hebrew _/chesed,/_/ or /_/ khesed,/_, meaning " mercy " . So a khesedan diet would be merciful, i.e., cruelty-free. Did I get that right? Rain @@@@ \\\\ ------- Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: ROLL CALL AND THREE QUESTIONS FOR _ALL_ MEMBERS]] Sat, 23 May 2009 08:53:12 -0500 John Daleske <john References: <4A17C4C3.4090100 <522601.39035.qm Khessedan doesn't even show up in Google. (So it must not exist, huh? ;-) The concept as describes fits me well. I had found " The Hippy Gourmet's Quick and Simple Cookbook for Healthy Eating " last year. He described that he was a pescatarian, which I had also not heard before. That pretty well fit me, but I like that added tone of concern defined in " khessedan " . The Hippy Gourmet actually expressed that level of concern in his discussion on pescatarian, so they are similar to that regard. + John ------- Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: ROLL CALL AND THREE QUESTIONS FOR _ALL_ MEMBERS]] Sat, 23 May 2009 06:25:43 -0700 (PDT) drpatsant <drpatsant References: <4A17C4C3.4090100 Hi Lynne, I've not run across the term Khessedan previously (I must lead a sheltered life, eh?) - and looking it up didn't help either. Origins??? I agree, more veggies are very important for improved health! And of course anyone, including those who are non-vegetarian, is welcome here - although we do expect members to express an interest in 'vegetarian topics' (as per our web page) and have respect for vegetarian lifestyle and values. There are lots of groups that encourage vegetables and include animal flesh in their diets, so it's not as if we were the only option for those trying to improve their health. Indeed, I used to be on an excellent wholefoods group that was omni. And in case anyone thinks I've lost the plot (and it's been known to happen!), I do remember that the intent of this group is not as a health group - there are lots of vegetarian and vegan groups for that - nor even a weight-loss group Not that we're against health or healthy weight LOL But tell me about 'khessedan' as a word (don't need to hear about what animal flesh is eaten, since I get the import of its meaning). Interesting. Love, Pat --- http://www.vegandonelight.com/spice <http://www.vegandonelight.com/spice> http://beanvegan.blogspot.com <http://beanvegan.blogspot.com> http://river-rambles.blogspot.com <http://river-rambles.blogspot.com> " As long as you derive inner help and comfort from anything, keep it. " Mahatma Gandhi. ________________________________ Lynn (1StraightArrow) <dayrain <dayrain%40earthlink.net>> <%40> Saturday, May 23, 2009 5:41:23 AM [Fwd: [Fwd: ROLL CALL AND THREE QUESTIONS FOR _ALL_ MEMBERS]] Starting with Question 3: 3. I guess you'd say I'm " lurking. " Probably some day I'll get back to spending more time on creative food preparation. On that day it'll be great to be able to choose and adapt recipes from among the wealth offered here. 1. When I joined I wasn't a " vegetarian " (a person who consumes dairy products) and I wasn't a vegan. I was a khessedan--someone who eats low on the cruelty scale. That means I ate no dairy foods at all, because of knowing that dairy cows and their male calves are abused. And it means I ate wild-caught fish--because the fish had enjoyed a free life up until their last few moments. It also means I ate lots of soy protein. But after several years of that regimen I've come to suspect that the soy protein may have caused a thyroid imbalance. A very positive note on the low-cruelty front is that here in California we've passed a ballot initiative that will (by 2011, if I recall correctly) limit factory-farm abuses of animals. The delay is to give businesses time to adjust their operations. The Vegetarian Spice group will be important even for someone who's not vegetarian, not vegan, and no longer strictly khessedan, because for health reasons we need to maximize vegetable consumption. Thank you to everyone who contributes. Lynn - 21 May 2009 drpatsant <drpatsant%40> <%40> <snip> 1. Did you join this group to help you BECOME vegetarian (or vegan) - or were you ALREADY veggie? (Additional comments would be helpful.) 2. Did you joing this group to be able to access the recipe Files or is that just a bonus? 3. Are you now or were you ever a lurker? If so, why? If not, why not? OTHER THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS? <snip> .._,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Lynn, I became a big fan of the Young Indiana Jones tv series (out in DVD as of last year). In it while Indy pursues his teen and early twenties years much history, philosophy, and some theology is presented. Each episode has Indy running into a variety of notables around the world. On the DVDs they have included documentaries about the incidents and historical characters that were in each episode. One episode that I revisited recently included being saved by Dr. Albert Sweitzer. As part of the discussions while he was recovering Indy learned of Sweitzer's life philosophy, which is Reverence for Life. It was a moving episode for me because it fit how I had felt, but did not have a cohesive philosophy stated. I did some research on Sweitzer and his concept and found a nice discussion at: http://www.albertschweitzer.info/discovery.html Please read it and see where it fits with what you are naming as Khessedanism. Another reason why it clicked with me was because I've studied both eastern (Hebraic) and western versions of the Kabbalah / Qabala where the concept is discussed as part of the tree of life. (I'm not a follower specifically of either of these, I have a strong interest in many philosophies and religions. Both are very interesting.) On a linguistic level, you may have an up-hill road with the name. The " K " sure makes one want to put in a hard K sound. It is also quite a mouthful and doesn't have an immediate inner-concept (which may be good). If you are looking for a short phrase rather than needing only a single word, perhaps " Reverence for Life " might fit. That, of course, would depend on how close your concepts match with an already existing use of the phrase. + John - Lynn Martin Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:51 PM Khessedanism (dietary practice of kindness) It is good to have read that Pat, John, Rain, and L.L. Scott found the term " khessedan " of interest, that the concept describes John's own practice well, and that Rain has correctly intuited the derivation of the word. (Their messages are below.) During the years when I was making my food choices with great care for animal welfare while also reaching beyond grain, beans, soy, and vegetables for some of my protein, I never could find an English-language word describing my practice. In my May 23 message (below) I briefly discuss why neither " vegetarianism " nor " veganism " was applicable. " Pescatarian/pescetarian " didn't fit, either. Some six or eight years ago I was studying the first book of the Torah, reading the original Hebrew with weekly help from a rabbi's wife. I became intrigued by the Hebrew word " khe-sed, " which means " kindness, " and adapted the word to describe my diet. For a while I thought about creating a business of selling the eggs of well-treated hens, thought about using " Khes-sed " and " Khessedan " as marketing terms. But I haven't created that business, so to date probably only a few thousand people have ever seen or heard the words. Maybe all publication so far has been on Internet lists--that would explain why a Google search doesn't uncover the words. Pronunciation and spelling notes (feel free to skip this paragraph if it's not of interest): Hebrew uses a different alphabet than English does, and the usual English-language spelling of the Hebrew word is " chesed. " But the initial " ch " of that spelling would confuse people unfamiliar with Hebrew. It's not the " ch " of " charity " or even the " ch " of " charisma " ; instead it stands for a consonant sound that we don't really have in English--it's very close to the " ch " in " Johann Sebastian Bach. " Another difference between the languages is that " chesed " doesn't rhyme with " teased " ; instead it's pronounced as two syllables, each syllable with a short " e. " It almost rhymes with our Biblical two-syllable " blessed, " except that the second syllable of " chesed " is stressed just as strongly as the first. I've been assuming that many people, seeing the idea written as " khessedanism, " would pronounce it " kessedanism, " and that a smaller number would opt for using the " Bach " ch-sound for the " kh. " I'd love to see the term " khessedanism " come into general use. We don't seem to have another word for the concept, and I believe it's a concept of some importance. I'd think lots of people would like to incorporate khessedan principles into their diets--to an extent--even though most wouldn't feel able to make the sacrifices demanded by veganism, vegetarianism, any sort of strict khessedan adherence. Having an accepted word for the concept should greatly facilitate bringing the idea to people's attention and thus should help lessen animals' suffering. Do you agree? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 I appreciate John's message and I'm planning to investigate the reference he's given--though probably I shouldn't do that today. But here's a quick reply to another part of his message: Maybe " khessedanism " isn't the best word, and if not, then isn't it appropriate that it's not yet googlable. I don't think I see " Reverence for Life " as quite workable, though. " I practice Reverence for Life " might work, because " Reverence for Life " only has four (five?) syllables. However, it sure does have lots of alphabetic letters (16 plus the two spaces). And I don't think " I'm a Reverence-for-Life-ist " would work very well at all, and " I'm a Reverence-for-Life practitioner " has eight or nine syllables. I'm not sure about " Do you have any good Reverence-for-Life recipes? " Also, many in the younger generation are saving keystrokes by omitting capitals, so " Reverence for Life " would become " reverence for life, " maybe thus losing its recognizability as a term for a specific concept. Interesting thought about whether the absence of an immediately visible inner concept in " khessedanism " is good. Wonder if we could find a more satisfactory root from another language, a root that wouldn't produce a word that's " quite a mouthful. " From Latin? From one of the languages of India? From any of the Native American tongues? From an African tongue? From the language(s) of the Australian aborigines? (As I recall, the aborigines didn't eat anything that had a face.) From elsewhere? Lynn ------- Re: Khessedanism (dietary practice of kindness) Sun, 24 May 2009 18:18:21 -0500 John Daleske <john References: <4A19CF6D.2040005 Lynn, I became a big fan of the Young Indiana Jones tv series (out in DVD as of last year). In it while Indy pursues his teen and early twenties years much history, philosophy, and some theology is presented. Each episode has Indy running into a variety of notables around the world. On the DVDs they have included documentaries about the incidents and historical characters that were in each episode. One episode that I revisited recently included being saved by Dr. Albert Sweitzer. As part of the discussions while he was recovering Indy learned of Sweitzer's life philosophy, which is Reverence for Life. It was a moving episode for me because it fit how I had felt, but did not have a cohesive philosophy stated. I did some research on Sweitzer and his concept and found a nice discussion at: http://www.albertschweitzer.info/discovery.html <http://www.albertschweitzer.info/discovery.html> Please read it and see where it fits with what you are naming as Khessedanism. Another reason why it clicked with me was because I've studied both eastern (Hebraic) and western versions of the Kabbalah / Qabala where the concept is discussed as part of the tree of life. (I'm not a follower specifically of either of these, I have a strong interest in many philosophies and religions. Both are very interesting.) On a linguistic level, you may have an up-hill road with the name. The " K " sure makes one want to put in a hard K sound. It is also quite a mouthful and doesn't have an immediate inner-concept (which may be good). If you are looking for a short phrase rather than needing only a single word, perhaps " Reverence for Life " might fit. That, of course, would depend on how close your concepts match with an already existing use of the phrase. + John - Lynn Martin <%40> Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:51 PM Khessedanism (dietary practice of kindness) It is good to have read that Pat, John, Rain, and L.L. Scott found the term " khessedan " of interest, that the concept describes John's own practice well, and that Rain has correctly intuited the derivation of the word. (Their messages are below.) During the years when I was making my food choices with great care for animal welfare while also reaching beyond grain, beans, soy, and vegetables for some of my protein, I never could find an English-language word describing my practice. In my May 23 message (below) I briefly discuss why neither " vegetarianism " nor " veganism " was applicable. " Pescatarian/pescetarian " didn't fit, either. Some six or eight years ago I was studying the first book of the Torah, reading the original Hebrew with weekly help from a rabbi's wife. I became intrigued by the Hebrew word " khe-sed, " which means " kindness, " and adapted the word to describe my diet. For a while I thought about creating a business of selling the eggs of well-treated hens, thought about using " Khes-sed " and " Khessedan " as marketing terms. But I haven't created that business, so to date probably only a few thousand people have ever seen or heard the words. Maybe all publication so far has been on Internet lists--that would explain why a Google search doesn't uncover the words. Pronunciation and spelling notes (feel free to skip this paragraph if it's not of interest): Hebrew uses a different alphabet than English does, and the usual English-language spelling of the Hebrew word is " chesed. " But the initial " ch " of that spelling would confuse people unfamiliar with Hebrew. It's not the " ch " of " charity " or even the " ch " of " charisma " ; instead it stands for a consonant sound that we don't really have in English--it's very close to the " ch " in " Johann Sebastian Bach. " Another difference between the languages is that " chesed " doesn't rhyme with " teased " ; instead it's pronounced as two syllables, each syllable with a short " e. " It almost rhymes with our Biblical two-syllable " blessed, " except that the second syllable of " chesed " is stressed just as strongly as the first. I've been assuming that many people, seeing the idea written as " khessedanism, " would pronounce it " kessedanism, " and that a smaller number would opt for using the " Bach " ch-sound for the " kh. " I'd love to see the term " khessedanism " come into general use. We don't seem to have another word for the concept, and I believe it's a concept of some importance. I'd think lots of people would like to incorporate khessedan principles into their diets--to an extent--even though most wouldn't feel able to make the sacrifices demanded by veganism, vegetarianism, any sort of strict khessedan adherence. Having an accepted word for the concept should greatly facilitate bringing the idea to people's attention and thus should help lessen animals' suffering. Do you agree? .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 > (As I recall, the aborigines didn't eat anything > that had a face.) From elsewhere? Well, they're accomplished hunters today, and many also work in the livestock industry. If they were vegetarians in the past, it must if nothing else have been pretty hard to get enough food in an Outback summer. I do know they've eaten witchetty grubs (big things that do indeed have faces of a sort) for at least several centuries, maybe longer. I'd be fascinated to know more about this; anybody have sources? Rain @@@@ \\\\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Hi Lynn, The only words or terms that come to my mind are already used by vegans and vegetarians - eg compassion and compasionate (as in the well known Compassionate Cooks) and ahimsa ( 'do no violence' from the sanskrit; as used by Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, etc.). Neither I think would be suitable, even if not already appropriated, for a philosophy which condoned the killing of animals for food. (Perhaps Khedassan is really your best bet, although I take John's point about recognition, pronunciation, spelling etc.) Forgive me if I don't spend longer on this, but I have tried and failed, perhaps understandably since the ideas you suggest do indeed go against my own vegetarian/vegan philosophy both rationally and emotionally. I also think most members here would feel more comfortable if we didn't further explore this non-vegetarian concept. Your comments have, however, been thought-provoking, and I thank you for that. Nice to find oneself confirmed even more firmly in lovingly held beliefs, however stubbornly unthinking that may seem to you. I go along with Piers on this kind of topic: the question to be put, I believe, is Why Eat Meat At All. Best love, Pat --- http://www.vegandonelight.com/spice http://beanvegan.blogspot.com http://river-rambles.blogspot.com " As long as you derive inner help and comfort from anything, keep it. " Mahatma Gandhi. ________________________________ Lynn Martin <dayrain Sunday, May 24, 2009 8:26:04 PM Re: Khessedanism (dietary practice of kindness) I appreciate John's message and I'm planning to investigate the reference he's given--though probably I shouldn't do that today. But here's a quick reply to another part of his message: Maybe " khessedanism " isn't the best word, and if not, then isn't it appropriate that it's not yet googlable. I don't think I see " Reverence for Life " as quite workable, though. " I practice Reverence for Life " might work, because " Reverence for Life " only has four (five?) syllables. However, it sure does have lots of alphabetic letters (16 plus the two spaces). And I don't think " I'm a Reverence-for-Life-ist " would work very well at all, and " I'm a Reverence-for-Life practitioner " has eight or nine syllables. I'm not sure about " Do you have any good Reverence-for-Life recipes? " Also, many in the younger generation are saving keystrokes by omitting capitals, so " Reverence for Life " would become " reverence for life, " maybe thus losing its recognizability as a term for a specific concept. Interesting thought about whether the absence of an immediately visible inner concept in " khessedanism " is good. Wonder if we could find a more satisfactory root from another language, a root that wouldn't produce a word that's " quite a mouthful. " From Latin? From one of the languages of India? From any of the Native American tongues? From an African tongue? From the language(s) of the Australian aborigines? (As I recall, the aborigines didn't eat anything that had a face.) From elsewhere? Lynn ------- Re: Khessedanism (dietary practice of kindness) Sun, 24 May 2009 18:18:21 -0500 John Daleske <john References: <4A19CF6D.2040005 Lynn, I became a big fan of the Young Indiana Jones tv series (out in DVD as of last year). In it while Indy pursues his teen and early twenties years much history, philosophy, and some theology is presented. Each episode has Indy running into a variety of notables around the world. On the DVDs they have included documentaries about the incidents and historical characters that were in each episode. One episode that I revisited recently included being saved by Dr. Albert Sweitzer. As part of the discussions while he was recovering Indy learned of Sweitzer's life philosophy, which is Reverence for Life. It was a moving episode for me because it fit how I had felt, but did not have a cohesive philosophy stated. I did some research on Sweitzer and his concept and found a nice discussion at: http://www.albertschweitzer.info/discovery.html <http://www.albertschweitzer.info/discovery.html> Please read it and see where it fits with what you are naming as Khessedanism. Another reason why it clicked with me was because I've studied both eastern (Hebraic) and western versions of the Kabbalah / Qabala where the concept is discussed as part of the tree of life. (I'm not a follower specifically of either of these, I have a strong interest in many philosophies and religions. Both are very interesting.) On a linguistic level, you may have an up-hill road with the name. The " K " sure makes one want to put in a hard K sound. It is also quite a mouthful and doesn't have an immediate inner-concept (which may be good). If you are looking for a short phrase rather than needing only a single word, perhaps " Reverence for Life " might fit. That, of course, would depend on how close your concepts match with an already existing use of the phrase. + John - Lynn Martin <%40> Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:51 PM Khessedanism (dietary practice of kindness) It is good to have read that Pat, John, Rain, and L.L. Scott found the term " khessedan " of interest, that the concept describes John's own practice well, and that Rain has correctly intuited the derivation of the word. (Their messages are below.) During the years when I was making my food choices with great care for animal welfare while also reaching beyond grain, beans, soy, and vegetables for some of my protein, I never could find an English-language word describing my practice. In my May 23 message (below) I briefly discuss why neither " vegetarianism " nor " veganism " was applicable. " Pescatarian/pescetarian " didn't fit, either. Some six or eight years ago I was studying the first book of the Torah, reading the original Hebrew with weekly help from a rabbi's wife. I became intrigued by the Hebrew word " khe-sed, " which means " kindness, " and adapted the word to describe my diet. For a while I thought about creating a business of selling the eggs of well-treated hens, thought about using " Khes-sed " and " Khessedan " as marketing terms. But I haven't created that business, so to date probably only a few thousand people have ever seen or heard the words. Maybe all publication so far has been on Internet lists--that would explain why a Google search doesn't uncover the words. Pronunciation and spelling notes (feel free to skip this paragraph if it's not of interest): Hebrew uses a different alphabet than English does, and the usual English-language spelling of the Hebrew word is " chesed. " But the initial " ch " of that spelling would confuse people unfamiliar with Hebrew. It's not the " ch " of " charity " or even the " ch " of " charisma " ; instead it stands for a consonant sound that we don't really have in English--it's very close to the " ch " in " Johann Sebastian Bach. " Another difference between the languages is that " chesed " doesn't rhyme with " teased " ; instead it's pronounced as two syllables, each syllable with a short " e. " It almost rhymes with our Biblical two-syllable " blessed, " except that the second syllable of " chesed " is stressed just as strongly as the first. I've been assuming that many people, seeing the idea written as " khessedanism, " would pronounce it " kessedanism, " and that a smaller number would opt for using the " Bach " ch-sound for the " kh. " I'd love to see the term " khessedanism " come into general use. We don't seem to have another word for the concept, and I believe it's a concept of some importance. I'd think lots of people would like to incorporate khessedan principles into their diets--to an extent--even though most wouldn't feel able to make the sacrifices demanded by veganism, vegetarianism, any sort of strict khessedan adherence. Having an accepted word for the concept should greatly facilitate bringing the idea to people's attention and thus should help lessen animals' suffering. Do you agree? .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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