New Member

Posted September 27, 2003 · September 27, 2003

Catherine-I must've just taken what you wrote the wrong way. I sort of took as you forced him just because you said you put your foot down, but now I completly understand what you're saying. :-)Take Care,SamCatherine Harris <cait2 wrote:

hi sam

of course it is right to say that we all have choices about being vegan or not.........and i never evangelise about it..........but my partner was eating take aways every night, spending large amounts of money, put on 4 stone, and was so stubborn about his principle of not cooking if i wouldnt cook meat for him, that in the final analysis, all round, it is better for him, and myself, financially, healthwise that he is eating the meals i prepare..........

we are all responsible for our own health........but years of battling with him about his health mean going vegan, having healthy meals, lower fat, economical are in his best interest as well as mine..............

if he got sick because of overweight, it would be myself who would be responsible for him!

catherine

>sam hall

> > >Re: Re: New member >Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:52:35 -0700 (PDT) > >Catherine- > I don't mean to sound rude at all! But... My bf and I have been together for a while as well and he also loves meat, And even though it's my choice to be Vegan & his to eat meat...I'd never in 100 yrs try to make him go vegan, I wouldn't object to it, But as being vegan is my choice, eatting meat is his & he's never once tried to change my views. I mean I'm not saying you absolutley made your partner because ultimatley it was his choice. I guess in my opinion I wouldn't do that... My boyfriend knows I will not cook the meat for him, but if he choices to do so and to eat it, thats his decision, not mine. That's just how I feel. Hope I didn't offend at all. >Take Care, >Sam. > >Catherine Harris wrote: > >hi all, > >i have made some progress with my meat eater partner, and i thought i would share it with in case it helps anyone maintain their hope and their strategy...........we have been together 8 years........he loves meat.......but about 8 months ago, i put my foot down and said i would not cook, reheat, serve or handle meat .......and that every day i would cook a vegan meal from scratch, and he was entitled to eat with me or watch, whichever took his fancy....... > >so he bought kebabs, cooked things..........and one day i cooked an extra delicious chilli.......the whole house smelled of woderful vegan chilli............he gave in and ate some.......so at the moment he is eating chili, vegan soya bolognese, vegan sausages onion gravy and mash, so three or four meals a week are vegan.............. > >i dont say much to him about it, because he was very stubborn about meat............but when theres hot tasty food to be eaten, he caved in.......... > >i cross my fingers that it will continue > >catherine > > > > > >"nikki_mackovitch" > > > > > > Re: New member > >Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:25:30 -0000 > > > >Hi Maggie and WELCOME! > > > >CONGRATS on yer decision to go veggie! > > > >Two books I highly recommend is Jon Robbin's "Diet For A New America" > >and another is "The Vegan Sourcebook" (cannot remember the authors > >name right now to save my life). Or even go to the library and look > >up vegetarian/vegan. You should find somewonderful resources there. > >The Vegan Sourcebook helped me out a lot because it listed the > >nutrients that the human body needs daily and wonderful ways for you > >to get it. It also has a lot of great recipes in it as well. > > > >I've also included below some info I got (maybe from this group??) on > >kids and vegetarian dites. It has helped me a lot with my 5 year old > >son. Unfortunately, my DH is still a carnivore and so is my son. But > >slowly they are experiencing new foods with me and do eat a lot of > >soy products with me now. But I think the house would have to burn > >down before either of them would allow something green to pass their > >lips. *sigh* tis a shame, guess I have to eat all of the brocolli > >Oh darn! > > > > > >A great website for recipes and info is www.vegweb.com or you can > >wait fer Fraggle to get back to the group and pound us with some of > >his. > > > >Hope this helps! > > > >nikki > >Everything alive is sacred; life delights in life. > >William Blake > > > > > > > >Article on kids and veggie diets: > > > > > >http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? > >AID=/20030903/NEWS/309030303/1004 > > > >Influenced by family or on their own, many young people turn to > >veggie diet > >By Meredith Cummings > >NYT Regional Newspapers > > > > > > TIPS FOR PARENTS > > The American Dietetic Association offers parents the following > >practical advice for helping vegetarian children meet their > >nutritional needs in healthful and tasty ways: > >* Calories and fat: Vegetarian children's diets sometimes tend to be > >high in fiber, filling their stomachs but making it difficult for > >them to consume the levels of energy they need. Avocados, nuts, > >seeds, dried fruits and soy products provide concentrated sources of > >calories. > >* Protein: Protein needs generally can be met by eating a variety of > >plant foods and having an adequate intake of calories. Foods high in > >protein include legumes, grains, soy products, nuts, dairy products > >and eggs. Grains such as rice, pasta, breads and cereals also provide > >protein. > >* Calcium: Good sources of calcium, especially for vegans, include > >calcium-fortified soy and rice milks and orange juice, tofu and dark > >green leafy vegetables. > >* Vitamin D: Children regularly exposed to appropriate levels of > >sunlight - 20 to 30 minutes per day on the hands and face, two to > >three times per week - apparently have no dietary requirement for > >vitamin D. Children with darker skin or who have limited exposure to > >sunlight may require vitamin supplements. Dietary sources of vitamin > >D include fortified cow's milk, some brands of soy or rice milk and > >most dry cereals. > >* Iron: Iron-deficiency anemia is the most common childhood > >nutritional problem, but it's no more likely to occur in vegetarian > >children than non-vegetarians. Good sources of iron include whole or > >enriched grains, iron-fortified cereals, legumes, green leafy > >vegetables and dried fruits. > >* Vitamin B12: Vegan children should eat foods fortified with vitamin > >B12, including fortified soy milk, fortified nutritional yeast and > >some breakfast cereals. > >* Zinc: Sources include legumes, hard cheeses, whole grain products, > >wheat germ, nuts and tofu. > >* * * > >Of course, children being children - vegetarian or not - means they > >can be picky eaters. To try to overcome this natural tendency, ADA > >offers some recommendations: > >* Offer choices of foods: Letting the child make some decisions can > >increase the acceptance of foods. > >* Make foods fun: Make pancakes in different shapes or with faces > >made from fruit, offer vegetables and dips, hide small pieces of > >fruit in yogurt. > >* Set a good example: Let children see you eating healthy foods. > >* Involve the child in food preparation: Young toddlers can tear up > >lettuce and put pieces of vegetables into a pot. Older preschoolers > >can wash vegetables, stir a fruit salad and help measure dry > >ingredients. > >* Keep mealtimes pleasant: Don't force a child to eat or use food as > >a reward. Try to stay calm about food refusals. > >- American Dietetic Association, 1998 > > > > > > Kara and Erik Hestevold put their plates forward for slices of > >chocolate cream pie. Not a bad way to wrap up a recent meal for the > >Hestevold children and their parents, Scott and Nita. > > > >But this pie was not ordinary. > > > >Its secret ingredient was tofu - whipped into a froth and mixed with > >chocolate. That may sound unappetizing to some, but it appeals to 9- > >year-old Kara and 14-year-old Erik. > > > >The Hestevolds are raising their children as vegetarians. About 1 > >million children ages 6 to 17 are vegetarians, according to the > >Vegetarian Resource Group, a nonprofit organization based in > >Baltimore. > > > >Vegetarians do not eat meat, fish or fowl. Vegans do not eat meat, > >fish or fowl and do not use other animal products such as dairy or > >eggs. > > > >Erik and Kara said they are sometimes teased, but that it's not as > >bad as it once was. They take their lunches to school each day and > >deal with offerings at birthday parties and other social events. > > > >"My true friends don't bug me about it,'' Erik said. "But then, some > >people will say things like, 'Do you take protein pills?' I've never > >heard of a protein pill. The closest thing to a protein pill is a > >bean.'' > > > >Books such as "Raising Vegetarian Children'' and "Cooking with Herb, > >the Vegetarian Dragon - A Cookbook for Kids'' sit in the Hestevolds' > >kitchen, showing how this Tuscaloosa family differs from neighbors > >who prefer the meat-and-veggies staples of the South. > > > >The Hestevold parents both ate meat for years before becoming > >vegetarians for moral reasons. > > > >Experts say that a well-planned vegetarian diet can be a healthy > >alternative to standard meat-based menus for all age groups. That > >includes during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood and > >adolescence, the group said in a statement published in the June > >issue of the Journal of the American Dietetic Association. > > > >A representative of the American Academy of Pediatrics concurred. > > > >"We agree that vegetarianism, especially the vegetarianism that does > >not eliminate milk, eggs and so on, is compatible with the normal > >dietary intake of a child and an adolescent,'' said Dr. Fima > >Lifshitz, director of pediatrics and a senior nutrition scientist at > >the Sansum Medical Research Institute in Santa Barbara, Calif. > > > >Lifshitz, however, cautions that more extreme > > > >- James Beard's"Beard on Pasta'' > > > >diets, such as those that eliminate all animal products, can be > >dangerous if not managed correctly. There have been well-publicized > >cases of malnutrition in children with restrictive diets. > > > >Parents say the challenges of raising vegetarian children change over > >time, but most agree that one issue is contending with other people. > >Whether it's in-laws who don't agree with parents' choices or helping > >children handle teasing or peer pressure, parental duties can be > >difficult. > > > >"Teaching our kids to navigate in a world which is so fundamentally > >different from what we believe is right as far as nutrition and > >animal welfare is sometimes difficult,'' said Melanie Wilson, > >publisher of Vegetarian Baby and Child Magazine and > >Vegetarianteen.com Online Magazine. She has two daughters who are > >vegans, ages 5 and 18 months. > > > >Parents who are thinking of raising children as vegetarians - or > >switching to vegetarianism - must do research, said Reed Mangels, > >nutrition adviser for the Vegetarian Resource Group. For the first > >six or seven months of life, a vegetarian or vegan baby's diet should > >not differ from that of a nonvegetarian. But once the time comes when > >meat would normally be introduced to the baby, parents need to find > >alternative sources of protein, such as yogurt, cottage cheese, soy > >and dry beans. > > > >Mangels, an author of books on vegetarianism, said some parents > >mistakenly try to make their own baby formula. If a vegetarian baby > >cannot be breast-fed, she said, always buy formula from the store. > > > >"Breast-feeding is the very best way to go whether you're vegetarian > >or not,'' Mangels said. "If that's not possible, then infant formula > >is the only other choice. I think that's important because, > >sometimes, a vegetarian will say, 'Oh, I drink soy milk so it must be > >OK for my baby,' but that won't work for the baby.'' > > > >The Hestevolds' decision to raise their children as vegetarians was a > >natural one since they are vegetarians. But some families decide to > >switch to vegetarianism when their children are older. > > > >Making the switch takes time, but children adapt easily and can soon > >get the hang of new foods. Meanwhile, providing familiar foods can > >help, Mangels said. > > > >Families switch to vegetarianism in many ways. Some parents choose to > >have the whole family switch, often when health concerns are an > >issue. Others let children transition gradually, selecting what they > >want to eat outside the home, for example, but having only vegetarian > >food in the home. Still others simply set a healthy example. > > > >"I've also heard from a lot of families in which one parent is > >vegetarian, but the other is not. Many families, like ours in the > >beginning, get along just fine because one parent agrees to raise the > >kids vegetarian even though he or she is not,'' Wilson said. "My > >husband, for example, ate vegetarian at home, but he would often > >order meat in a restaurant.'' > > > >"Many families experience some level of stress when making the > >transition, and it's important to remember that each of us is on his > >or her own path in life,'' she said. "There needs to be acceptance > >within the family for members who choose to eat meat, for those who > >occasionally eat meat, as well as for those who are adamant about not > >eating any animal's products.'' > > > >Some teen-agers decide to become vegetarians for their own reasons, > >because their friends are, or because they have a newfound sense of > >moral, ethical or environmental awareness. Wilson said that when this > >happens, many parents don't research vegetarianism and are unable to > >help the teen-ager make healthy choices. > > > >"Some do this because they think it's a phase which will pass, others > >because they feel that it's an insult to their parenting or beliefs > >that their child has chosen vegetarianism and still others because > >they hope to force the teen back into eating meat by not offering > >options,'' Wilson said. > > > >Lifshitz said these young people are particularly vulnerable to > >nutritional deficiencies. > > > >"The adolescents are the ones that worry me more because they are > >often on their own,'' without the guidance of parents or others who > >know how to manage a vegetarian diet, he said. > > > >Nutritionists agree that parents of vegetarians must play a major > >role in educating their children, whether teens or babies, about > >nutrition, just as any parents do. Scott Hestevold, for example, said > >his children have been taught to plan meals with complete protein, > >such as dishes that combine pasta with legumes. > > > >"With all the information now available about the long-term health > >benefits of plant-based diets, there is really no question that the > >vegan diet is safe - in fact, it offers the most disease-fighting > >protection of any dietary pattern,'' said Amy Lanou, nutrition > >director for the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine in a > >statement on the group's Web site. > > > >"Studies show that a meat-free vegan diet rich in fruits, vegetables, > >whole grains, and legumes offers clear advantages to growing > >bodies,'' said Lanou, author of "Healthy Eating for Life for > >Children.'' "In fact, some research has even shown that vegan diets > >may offer advantages for developing minds as well.'' > > > >Lifshitz, however, recommends that parents of vegetarian children > >substitute protein foods including eggs and milk for meat. If the > >family wants to go vegan, Lifshitz said, they should take vitamin and > >mineral supplements "just to be sure.'' > > > >He said the greater the variety of foods that children have > >available, the better their nutritional needs will be met. > > > >"All foods are good in moderation,'' he said. "Any extremes of > >avoiding certain foods carries risks.'' > > > >Lifshitz said some cultures, such as those in India and other parts > >of Asia, have a long history of raising children on vegetarian diets. > >Parents there have experience in managing the diet to avoid > >malnutrition. Parents in cultures without the same dietary history > >may not have that know-how, he said. > > > >Some parents find that by adopting a vegetarian diet, their children > >learn more about various food groups. > > > >"When it comes to vegetarianism, now they can sometimes be more > >adamant than we are,'' Nita Hestevold said of Erik and Kara. > > > >Although the Hestevolds said they never expect anyone else to become > >vegetarian because of them, and don't push their values on others, > >sometimes their friends want to see what it's like to be a vegetarian. > > > >"Most of my friends have tried being vegetarian,'' Kara said, > >smiling. "One tried and almost did, but they just couldn't stay away > >from meat.'' > > > >Meredith Cummings writes for the Tuscaloosa News. > > > > > > > > , Margaret MacGregor > > wrote: > > > Hi > > > > > > > > > I just joined up last night. My DH (Ian) and I are brand new > > > vegetarians. We may go down the vegan path later on. Ian > >announced > > > his wish to go vegetarian > > > in the car yesterday, saying he didn't like the way a lot of > >animals, > > > particularly chickens, were treated and that he no longer wanted to > >eat > > > them. I agree, > > > and I'd like to know more about it. I'm sure none of the animals > >lead > > > a good life! > > > > > > We have a six year old daughter who has autism, and he wants her to > > > continue eating meat! I don't, and feel that since she loves > >things > > > like vegetables, beans of all > > > kinds, pasta and rice it would be an easy job to have her eating > > > vegetarian, too. He's worried she won't get all the nutrients she > > > needs. Is there anywhere/anything > > > we can read which would make this clearer? I know many children > >grow > > > up to be healthier eating a vegetarian diet. I'm leery of her > >being > > > vegan, I must admit. > > > > > > I like to knit and crochet (I don't use wool; not for moral/ethical > > > reasons, but it just doesn't get cold enough in San Jose to warrant > > > wearing it and besides, it makes me > > > itch!) When we go somewhere that gets cold, I wear polar fleece. > > > > > > Where can we get non-leather sneakers and belts? > > > > > > If anyone can suggest any reading matter for Ian and myself, please > >do. > > > > > > Maggie > > > San Jose CA > > > > > > >Half price modem, FREE connection and one month FREE - click here to sign up to BT Broadband. >

Posted September 27, 2003 · September 27, 2003

Hiya Cath,

Sounds like you have the right idea, couldnt you cast a few spells to help

things along? ( or havent you been dancing in the woods lately!)

My wife also eats meat and its her choice, the same as my cats ( unlike my kids,

who choose not to ). She does however eat some of my meals when I cook up a

batch to freeze ( saves her cooking when she gets home from work), so some days

are cruelty free in my kitchen.

We are still leading by example and have the moral high ground......oooh doesnt

that sound pompous....time I went back to sleep............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

The Valley Vegan....

>

Peter H

--------------------

talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at

http://www.talk21.com

Posted September 27, 2003 · September 27, 2003

RE Ctherines recipie for Chilli,

Hi Cath,

My recipie is simular, exept that I use bulgar wheat soaked in vegan stock

instead of TVP/Soya bits, leave out the Garlic and add Oregano, Cumin , Tomato

Paste and chopped mushrooms and tinned/frozen sweetcorn.

All the best,

The Valley Vegan......

> >

Peter H

--------------------

talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at

http://www.talk21.com

Posted September 28, 2003 · September 28, 2003

hi valley vegan,

that version of chilli sounds nice as well.......might try it sometine.........

catherine

>swpgh01 > > >Re: Re: New member >Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:03:32 GMT+01:00 > > >RE Ctherines recipie for Chilli, >Hi Cath, >My recipie is simular, exept that I use bulgar wheat soaked in vegan stock instead of TVP/Soya bits, leave out the Garlic and add Oregano, Cumin , Tomato Paste and chopped mushrooms and tinned/frozen sweetcorn. >All the best, >The Valley Vegan...... > > > > >Peter H > >-------------------- >talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com > Stay connected whilst on the move. Now you can get Hotmail sent directly to your mobile phone. Click here for details.

Posted September 29, 2003 · September 29, 2003

Looks wonderful Catherine!

Thx fer sharing!

nikki

, " Catherine Harris " <cait2@h...>

wrote:

> my recipe for chilli

Posted September 29, 2003 · September 29, 2003

Hollin;

Your story is similar to mine, I went raw in the spring of '98 but I

work around meat eating, cookie crunching, construction workers. Same

thing happened. I didn't try again until the fall of " 99. This time

it worked. What saved me, was reading more books, on raw foods, ( I

found that as long as I was learning about raw foods I was less

likely to be tempted by cooked foods) and participating in this forum

(this is a great support group). If you liked " Nature's First Law " ,

you'll love " Sun Food Diet Success System " by David Wolf.

Doug

rawfood , " Elizabeth " <ellehollinger@h...>

wrote:

> Hello everyone!

>

> I'm a 20-year-old college student in Massachusetts who has been

> gradually transitioning to raw foodism for the last few years. My

> story begins two summers ago when I was doing my usual nutrition

book

> search and I came across " Nature's First Law " . It changed my life

> that summer -- I had never felt better in my life. When I got back

> to college I had a lot of trouble staying raw, mostly due to the

fact

> that my motivations were weak and cooked food was too tempting (and

> too available). I gave up, but continued to eat mostly vegan.

>

> In the past year or so I have become more spiritual, and I find new

> meaning in the raw food diet from both a health and spirituality

> point of view. I feel that the raw food diet would really enhance

> the healing process I am going through, and I'd like to give it

> another chance. I have joined this group with the intention of

> corresponding with like-minded people and finding the community I

> need to stick with this goal. I look forward to reading your posts!

>

> Cheers,

> Hollin

Posted October 6, 2003 · October 6, 2003

Howdy,

Have you thought about getting an electric steamer or

mini crockpot so you can cook in your room? You can

make a zillion types of cheap and easy vegan meals

that way.

--- Megan <total_instant_karma wrote:

> Hello everyone, My name is Megan, I am 18 years old

> and live in

> Ontario Canada, I have been a vegetarian for 5 years

> now. I am very

> interested in veganism and have been doing a lot of

> research on it.

> It is definatly something that I am interested in

> but I am finding it

> way to hard to avoid many things at the moment. I am

> currently living

> in residence at University, and have a manditory

> meal plan.

> Unfortunatly, it is difficult enough to find a

> vegetarian meal 2-3

> times a day, let alone a vegan one! So right now I

> am doing all I can

> to cut down on my dairy consumption as much as

> possible and avoid

> what ever else I feel I should. (Non-free-trade

> supporting corp. for

> example.) I was just wondering what other peoples

> oppinions are on

> this, or possibly someone has some advice to give,

> although I don't

> see a solution being possible until the end of the

> school year. Your

> group is wonderful by the way, very informative! I

> look forward to

> participating in your disgussions when I can, or

> just reading what

> other people have to say!

>

> -Megan

>

The New with improved product search

Posted October 8, 2003 · October 8, 2003

Good question, Ron. Generally, lifelong vegans don't even have to

worry about cholesterol as it is only found in animal products. But

if you need to lower cholesterol, lowering stress and having a good

exercise program will help to keep cholesterol levels in check. Also

natural fiber in the diet helps to lower cholesterol. (A while back

oat bran was a big hit because of this.) Raw sources of fiber can be

from fruits and vegetables, and ground nuts and seeds, especially

flax seed. I looked on the Internet and there is actually a web site

devoted to information concerning lowering cholesterol. It is

www.loweringcholesterol.net.

Also, the exercise program combined with a natural diet is the best

long-term way to lose weight and keep it off. There's no hurry to

lose the weight. Be sure to drink adequate water between meals as it

curbs the desire to overeat. If you eating naturally (and not too

much) along with sensible exercise, it will come off in time. Vegans

are usually looked upon by others as too skinny and underweight, so

that day may come for you also.

I hope this helps.

Ron Koenig

Bellevue, WA

RawSeattle , " rlmftw " <rlmftw> wrote:

> Hi Folks:

>

> I have been reading your posts for some weeks, but this is my first

> post. I weigh 160 lbs. and my cholesterol is around 150. I'm 60

> years old and interested in avoiding chronic, degenerative diseases

> related to obesity, such as diabetes, hypertension and osteoporosis.

>

> I'm eating vegan, low fat, no simple sugars or caffeine. Is there

> anybody out there who can tell me how to lose another 5 pounds and

> get my cholesterol down to around 100?

>

> Appreciate the help.

>

> Ron

Posted October 21, 2003 · October 21, 2003

on 10/20/03 10:46 PM, sojourningypsy at ggypsy_37 wrote:

Hello,

I'd like to introduce myself. I'm Sharyn and I live in NC.

I found this group through researching living foods. I began

eating raw food almost 2 mos. ago and have had amazing results.

Goodmorning Sharyn

Can you share with us all how you began this diet ? How much juicing do you

do?

Thanks so much

Jane Edenfield

boxers1

Posted October 23, 2003 · October 23, 2003

The first question is, why do you avoid soy? There is almond milk, but it

is being enriched with soy protein, I understand.

You can always do what I do. I have a soymilker machine. It will make

soy, rice or almond milk, or even a combination of these. It means that

you make your own rice milk, sweeten as you please. The stuff in the

store, soy, rice and almond, have tons of sugars, just read the

labels. Home made is warm, naturally sweet and terribly fresh.

www.soyclub.com or www.thesoyclub.com I don't know which, but it is there

somewhere!

Dragonfly

Posted October 24, 2003 · October 24, 2003

--- meztli81 <meztli81 wrote: > Hey, new

member. I haven't eaten animal flesh in

> years but I just

> became vegan. The question I had was about milk.

> Since I avoid soy

> whenever possible and rice milk is just to sweet for

> my taste, is

> there any other milk substitutes that vegans use? I

> don't know much

> about this.

>

What's your problem with soy? Allergies?

Look for Oatmilk. There's quite a few brands around:

http://www.vegsoc.org/cordonvert/recipes/oatmilk.html

Or make your own:

http://members.tripod.com/~iskra/nomilk/omilk1.htm

______________________

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Posted October 24, 2003 · October 24, 2003

meztli81 wrote:

>Since I avoid soy whenever possible and rice milk is just to sweet for my

>taste, is there any other milk substitutes that vegans use? I don't know

>much about this.

Oat milk is worth trying. I find it to be the least sweet, but you have to

check that it's not sweetened. My personal favourite is Pacific Oat

(http://www.pacificfoods.com), because it's organic, and there's an

unsweetened version.

Gerry

Posted October 24, 2003 · October 24, 2003

I don't avoid all soy, that wasn't entirely true, but I do avoid

large amounts like tofu and soymilk. It just doesn't go well with my

stomach. I don't know why. All the products I've bought have been

from grocery stores, though, so maybe I'll try it in a more natural

state. Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to check those out.

Posted October 28, 2003 · October 28, 2003

Ron,

Thanks for the email. I'm glad you could join us!

The best way to get started would likely be to connect with some raw

foodists in your area. Meeting people, discussing raw food nutrition,

and experiencing prepared raw foods first hand is a great way to

learn a new way of eating and living. Here are a few listings for

Texas groups I found. If you are not close to them, they may know of

raw foodists in your area.

Dallas Raw Experience

learning and support every second Saturday of the month at 6:30 PM

Call for details and location 214-454-5250

or email Cynthia Beavers

rawfoodchef

http://www.rawheaven.com/

Plano, Texas (north Dallas)

We have a Living Pot Luck the first Sunday of every month.

Contact Jeannette Wright at 972-862-0967.

or email: ljquest

Texas Live Feast Group

Austin

1st Saturday of the month

3920 Idalia Drive

http://www.livefeast.com

512-282-4308

yemiah

From your home, you can find lots of information on line. Take a look

at my raw food page, which has lots of raw food links:

http://www.soystache.com/rawlinks.htm.

There are also lots of books on the subject to read, which may be

purchased online, or possibly found at a nearby library:

http://www.soystache.com/rawfoodbooks.htm

Personally, since going raw, I don't recall any incidence of

hypoglycemia. While not diagnosed with it, I certainly experienced

it's symptoms, before going raw. There is diabetes in my family and

even though I have eaten tons of sugary fruits since going raw, I

have never had any signs of the disease. I just ate two pints of figs

and two bosc pears and feel better than on my cooked meals of the

past. My blood pressure is now normal, I stopped getting colds and

flus, no more migraines, most aches and pains are gone, etc.

I eat lots of fruits and 1 or two salads a day. Sometimes some raw

nuts and seeds. Sometimes I eat very simply with just one fruit or

green in a meal, sometimes I eat more gourmet, with casseroles,

smoothies, etc. You can find lots of recipes online or in books.

I wish you well! If you have any questions or comments, we're here for you!

Jeff

PS: One thing that helped me let go of coffee was to recognize how

low my average energy was as a result of the coffee, so, while the

coffee had the illusion of giving me a boost, I actually had a lower

overall energy level while on coffee. When I considered drinking

coffee, I also thought about how my energy level would be lower later

on as a result and also how sluggish I would wake up the next morning

as a result. I eventually opted for waking up more alert and vibrant.

I recognized I could live up to more of my fullest potential without

coffee/caffeine in my body. (hope this helps)

>I am sixty years old. I'm semiretired, sort of, and I drive a school

>bus in Fort Worth, Texas. I've had hypoglycemic episodes and my

>doctor says my cholesterol is high and I need to change my diet or

>I'll soon be diabetic.

>

>I'd like to try totally renouncing the Western diet and sedentary

>lifestyle and trying to eat just fruits and veggies. Is there anyone

>who could sponsor/mentor me?

>

>I'm trying today to " taper off " by avoiding concentrated sweets. I'm

>addicted to coffee and hope to quit, but not today.

>

>I'd appreciate some advice and support.

>

>Ron

Posted October 28, 2003 · October 28, 2003

<<< while the coffee had the illusion of giving me a boost, I actually had a

lower

overall energy level while on coffee.

Good point, Jeff. It's also helpful to remember that the stimulation we feel

as a result of drinking coffee is energy *leaving* the body, not energy being

generated. After caffeine is ingested, the body accelerates its eliminative

efforts in order to effect the expedient removal of the caffeine. In other

words, there is a very large cost to bear for that little boost of perceived

energy. Bodily vitality and energy that could be used for outward activities

or internal restorative processes must be used to eliminate caffeine instead.

There is a great article in the Summer 2002 edition of " Just Eat An Apple "

magazine ( " Coffee: The Great Energy Sapper " ) about the harmful physiological

and environmental effects of coffee.

Nora

Posted October 29, 2003 · October 29, 2003

Hi Ron,

You might want to find a competent naturopathic doctor to help you

with the hypoglycemia. You are probably deficient in some minerals

like chromium and zinc, and the naturopath should be able to

determine if that is the case. Tapering off is the best way to go,

you should also do that with the coffee, drinking a little bit less

each day. Proper nutrition combined with moderate exercise should

eliminate the hypoglycemia under normal conditions, but I would see a

doctor to see what else could be a contributing factor. Eliminating

animal products along with sensible exercise will help to lower your

cholesterol. It's up to you, the decisions you make will determine

what quality of life you will live.

Ron Koenig

Bellevue

RawSeattle , " rlmftw " <rlmftw> wrote:

> I am sixty years old. I'm semiretired, sort of, and I drive a

school

> bus in Fort Worth, Texas. I've had hypoglycemic episodes and my

> doctor says my cholesterol is high and I need to change my diet or

> I'll soon be diabetic.

>

> I'd like to try totally renouncing the Western diet and sedentary

> lifestyle and trying to eat just fruits and veggies. Is there

anyone

> who could sponsor/mentor me?

>

> I'm trying today to " taper off " by avoiding concentrated sweets.

I'm

> addicted to coffee and hope to quit, but not today.

>

> I'd appreciate some advice and support.

>

> Ron

Posted October 29, 2003 · October 29, 2003

Just be mindful of the naturopath. I've come away with a $600 bill to tell me

my daughter didn't have strep throat!

Naturopaths can be just as bad for prescribing un-needed " pills " as medical

doctors.

For me my hypoglcemia disappeared before I was even 80% raw. And as long as I

exercise and stay raw it is not a problem. I had a 5 hour glucose tolerance

test back in '87 and I wasn't even on the charts by the 3 hour. I was semi

concious by the 4 hour and unconcious by the 5 hour. Interestingly enough it

was done in a medical setting and they didn't prescribe anything but fruit juice

first thing in the morning. They said to keep it by my bed so I could drink it

first thing in the morning before I even set foot on the floor. I never did,

but I do know it didn't abate until I found raw foods.

What nationality are you? Through reading I have discovered that people of the

colder climes, Sweden (me), Norway, Finland, etc... have a tendency to have high

cholesterols even on raw food. You need to look at both readings. Mine is

barely under 200 even with raw, but the " good " stuff is in a great place.

Exercise helps, a lot.

Just some early morning ramblings.

Shari

Posted October 29, 2003 · October 29, 2003

<<<< " Just be mindful of the naturopath. "

I would very much agree with Shari. Naturopaths are just as intent on

suppressing symptoms as " regular " doctors. They give lip service to finding

causes, but they never get to the real causes because they are as ignorant about

the true requisites of health as mainstream health professionals. I worked at

Bastyr for a year and what I saw there convinced me that naturopathy is almost

as mired in confusion as allopathy. You may find a naturopath that is

knowledgeable about real health and supportive of raw diets, but they are few

and far between. Most advocate nonsense like the blood type diet, the

zone, atkins, etc.

The real cure for hypoglycemia is water fasting. It's best to do this with

supervision, as it may take an extended fast for impaired organs to regenerate

and repair themselves. After the fast, it might still be necessary to avoid

very sweet foods like dates, dried fruit or even bananas for a period of time.

This is one of the very few exceptions to the rule that the conditions which

create health are the same regardless of the diagnosis. After a complete

recovery, you wouldn't have to worry about eating sweet fruits, or having

symptoms if you miss a meal.

Hope this is helpful,

Nora

>

Posted October 30, 2003 · October 30, 2003

Jeff:

Thanks for the advice, support and Dallas area addresses. I do

believe that I need to get in touch with a support group to help me

do this thing. I don't seem to be able to put away the beer, coffee,

sugar and fat for just one day! I get up at 5:30 a.m. with a new

resolve, but by 9:30 a.m. I'm having coffee, bacon, eggs, cheese and

pancakes with butter! I don't seem to give a shit about myself!

I perused some of the links you gave me; looked at some of the

picures of the beautiful people. . . and can't bring myself to walk

into a potluck or group like that. I have low self-esteem in

addition to poor mental health.

If you don't mind, I would like to tell it like it is, anonymously,

on this web site for a while. Hopefully, until I can get off the

Western diet and sedentary lifestyle.

Ron

RawSeattle , Jeff Rogers <jeff@s...> wrote:

> Ron,

>

> Thanks for the email. I'm glad you could join us!

>

> The best way to get started would likely be to connect with some

raw

> foodists in your area. Meeting people, discussing raw food

nutrition,

> and experiencing prepared raw foods first hand is a great way to

> learn a new way of eating and living. Here are a few listings for

> Texas groups I found. If you are not close to them, they may know

of

> raw foodists in your area.

>

> Dallas Raw Experience

> learning and support every second Saturday of the month at 6:30 PM

> Call for details and location 214-454-5250

> or email Cynthia Beavers

> rawfoodchef@a...

> http://www.rawheaven.com/

>

> Plano, Texas (north Dallas)

> We have a Living Pot Luck the first Sunday of every month.

> Contact Jeannette Wright at 972-862-0967.

> or email: ljquest@a...

>

> Texas Live Feast Group

> Austin

> 1st Saturday of the month

> 3920 Idalia Drive

> http://www.livefeast.com

> 512-282-4308

> yemiah@l...

>

> From your home, you can find lots of information on line. Take a

look

> at my raw food page, which has lots of raw food links:

> http://www.soystache.com/rawlinks.htm.

>

> There are also lots of books on the subject to read, which may be

> purchased online, or possibly found at a nearby library:

> http://www.soystache.com/rawfoodbooks.htm

>

> Personally, since going raw, I don't recall any incidence of

> hypoglycemia. While not diagnosed with it, I certainly experienced

> it's symptoms, before going raw. There is diabetes in my family and

> even though I have eaten tons of sugary fruits since going raw, I

> have never had any signs of the disease. I just ate two pints of

figs

> and two bosc pears and feel better than on my cooked meals of the

> past. My blood pressure is now normal, I stopped getting colds and

> flus, no more migraines, most aches and pains are gone, etc.

>

> I eat lots of fruits and 1 or two salads a day. Sometimes some raw

> nuts and seeds. Sometimes I eat very simply with just one fruit or

> green in a meal, sometimes I eat more gourmet, with casseroles,

> smoothies, etc. You can find lots of recipes online or in books.

>

> I wish you well! If you have any questions or comments, we're here

for you!

>

> Jeff

>

> PS: One thing that helped me let go of coffee was to recognize how

> low my average energy was as a result of the coffee, so, while the

> coffee had the illusion of giving me a boost, I actually had a

lower

> overall energy level while on coffee. When I considered drinking

> coffee, I also thought about how my energy level would be lower

later

> on as a result and also how sluggish I would wake up the next

morning

> as a result. I eventually opted for waking up more alert and

vibrant.

> I recognized I could live up to more of my fullest potential

without

> coffee/caffeine in my body. (hope this helps)

>

> >I am sixty years old. I'm semiretired, sort of, and I drive a

school

> >bus in Fort Worth, Texas. I've had hypoglycemic episodes and my

> >doctor says my cholesterol is high and I need to change my diet or

> >I'll soon be diabetic.

> >

> >I'd like to try totally renouncing the Western diet and sedentary

> >lifestyle and trying to eat just fruits and veggies. Is there

anyone

> >who could sponsor/mentor me?

> >

> >I'm trying today to " taper off " by avoiding concentrated sweets.

I'm

> >addicted to coffee and hope to quit, but not today.

> >

> >I'd appreciate some advice and support.

> >

> >Ron

>

Posted October 30, 2003 · October 30, 2003

Thanks, Ron:

I have recently had a bad experience with doctors. I respect your

advice to find a naturopathic doctor to help me with the transition

to raw foods, but I believe that anybody working for money probably

puts that interest ahead of helping me. I would fear that such a

person might sell me therapy I didn't need in order to make more

money.

I like being able to post anonymously to this group, if you don't

mind, and I respect the advice I get here because nobody knows me or

is after a paycheck.

This group seems to be a very unique group of people that I would

like to be able to emulate one day.

Ron McClure

RawSeattle , " Ron Koenig " <ron.koenig@v...>

wrote:

> Hi Ron,

> You might want to find a competent naturopathic doctor to help you

> with the hypoglycemia. You are probably deficient in some minerals

> like chromium and zinc, and the naturopath should be able to

> determine if that is the case. Tapering off is the best way to go,

> you should also do that with the coffee, drinking a little bit less

> each day. Proper nutrition combined with moderate exercise should

> eliminate the hypoglycemia under normal conditions, but I would see

a

> doctor to see what else could be a contributing factor.

Eliminating

> animal products along with sensible exercise will help to lower

your

> cholesterol. It's up to you, the decisions you make will determine

> what quality of life you will live.

>

> Ron Koenig

> Bellevue

>

> RawSeattle , " rlmftw " <rlmftw> wrote:

> > I am sixty years old. I'm semiretired, sort of, and I drive a

> school

> > bus in Fort Worth, Texas. I've had hypoglycemic episodes and my

> > doctor says my cholesterol is high and I need to change my diet

or

> > I'll soon be diabetic.

> >

> > I'd like to try totally renouncing the Western diet and sedentary

> > lifestyle and trying to eat just fruits and veggies. Is there

> anyone

> > who could sponsor/mentor me?

> >

> > I'm trying today to " taper off " by avoiding concentrated sweets.

> I'm

> > addicted to coffee and hope to quit, but not today.

> >

> > I'd appreciate some advice and support.

> >

> > Ron

Posted October 30, 2003 · October 30, 2003

Shari:

Thanks for your caution about naturopaths. I have had similar

regretable experiences. I don't have much respect for a 300 pound

M.D. who tells me about health and wellness. In fact, that was my

last experience. I've done my own experiments since then.

Actually, I found a Chicago raw foodist on the internet who has been

helping me on a one-to-one basis. We began a health and wellness

group on the internet called Fruits And Veggies Forever, but the

membership is still at no more than 4 or 5 people.

After 60+ days on the Fruits And Veggies program, my weight dropped

from 180 lbs. to 158 lbs. and my cholesterol went from 211 to 115!

My PSA level also improved from 1.7 to 1.2. I felt recovered from

hypoglycemia and have had no more problems with it--until I somehow

picked up a slice of pizza!!!

The pizza has turned me into an eating machine for the past week and

I'm beginning to wonder if I will ever be able to get back on track.

I'm into coffee, ice cream, animal products, beer, sweets, and

everything vile and shameless. I just finished a pancake breakfast

with butter, syrup, eggs, cheese and bacon!

There are four beers at home in my refrigerator and I am afraid that

I will not be able to throw them out. I'll probably have to drink

them. I can't seem to get clean the day after drinking beer! On

hangover days I usually have to taper off with ice cream, cookies,

cakes and pies.

It is unbelievable that one week ago I had been eating only fruits

and veggies for 60+ days straight! Last week I felt pretty good.

Today, after eating the S.A.D. for 6 days I feel like shit!

Ron McClure

RawSeattle , " Shari V " <shavig@p...> wrote:

> Just be mindful of the naturopath. I've come away with a $600 bill

to tell me my daughter didn't have strep throat!

>

> Naturopaths can be just as bad for prescribing un-needed " pills " as

medical doctors.

>

> For me my hypoglcemia disappeared before I was even 80% raw. And

as long as I exercise and stay raw it is not a problem. I had a 5

hour glucose tolerance test back in '87 and I wasn't even on the

charts by the 3 hour. I was semi concious by the 4 hour and

unconcious by the 5 hour. Interestingly enough it was done in a

medical setting and they didn't prescribe anything but fruit juice

first thing in the morning. They said to keep it by my bed so I

could drink it first thing in the morning before I even set foot on

the floor. I never did, but I do know it didn't abate until I found

raw foods.

>

> What nationality are you? Through reading I have discovered that

people of the colder climes, Sweden (me), Norway, Finland, etc...

have a tendency to have high cholesterols even on raw food. You need

to look at both readings. Mine is barely under 200 even with raw,

but the " good " stuff is in a great place. Exercise helps, a lot.

>

> Just some early morning ramblings.

>

> Shari

>

Posted October 30, 2003 · October 30, 2003

Nora:

I second your cautions about American medicine in general. Most

doctors are very good businessmen; very good salesmen; and very well-

dressed--but they don't know beans about health and wellness, in my

opinion. The last time I talked with a doctor about cholesterol I

decided that he didn't know beans about cholesterol! I've worked in

a hospital while attending nursing school and I decided that the

hospital where I worked would be the last place I would go with a

health problem, if I needed help.

The help I need now is how to get off alcohol, sweets, fats & oils,

animal products, salt and condiments, caffeine and other addictive

substances! You mentioned a water fast. I've been trying to " taper

off " for the last week, but eating less and less of addictive foods

still leaves me with uncontrollable cravings that get me back into

the addictions.

I may try fasting. . . How would you recommend doing it? Just don't

eat anything but water?

Ron McClure

RawSeattle , Nora Lenz <nmlenz@s...> wrote:

> <<<< " Just be mindful of the naturopath. "

>

> I would very much agree with Shari. Naturopaths are just as intent

on suppressing symptoms as " regular " doctors. They give lip service

to finding causes, but they never get to the real causes because they

are as ignorant about the true requisites of health as mainstream

health professionals. I worked at Bastyr for a year and what I saw

there convinced me that naturopathy is almost as mired in confusion

as allopathy. You may find a naturopath that is knowledgeable about

real health and supportive of raw diets, but they are few and far

between. Most advocate nonsense like the blood type diet, the

> zone, atkins, etc.

>

> The real cure for hypoglycemia is water fasting. It's best to do

this with supervision, as it may take an extended fast for impaired

organs to regenerate and repair themselves. After the fast, it might

still be necessary to avoid very sweet foods like dates, dried fruit

or even bananas for a period of time. This is one of the very few

exceptions to the rule that the conditions which create health are

the same regardless of the diagnosis. After a complete recovery, you

wouldn't have to worry about eating sweet fruits, or having symptoms

if you miss a meal.

>

> Hope this is helpful,

> Nora

>

> >

Posted October 30, 2003 · October 30, 2003

Hi Ron,

Yes, for a water fast you take in nothing but water. When you are

through with the fast you need to start small and not eat too much.

Your experience confirms the addicting qualities of the food that you

went back to on a whim after 60 days of eating well. I hope that you

have learned from that experience and will avoid doing it again.

When your body starts to cleanse, you will experience cravings for

the foods you used to eat. You can give in and have your health go

downhill or take steps to choose the more healthy way. It is not

going to be easy. Old habits are hard to break. Having a support

group will help a lot.

Ron Koenig

Bellevue

RawSeattle , " rlmftw " <rlmftw> wrote:

> Nora:

>

> I may try fasting. . . How would you recommend doing it? Just

don't

> eat anything but water?

>

> Ron McClure

>

> > >

Posted October 30, 2003 · October 30, 2003

Ron,

Firstly, what I get from your comments is that you have what it takes to get

well -- an open and discerning mind! Having invested some of your own life

in medical training, you have come through unscathed, with your integrity and

intellect intact. No small feat. The only thing you need to overcome now is

your addictions. That's not easy either, but you have the will and ability

to overcome them. Of this you must have no doubt! Everyone slips. The

important part of backsliding is that you learn from the experience. The

symptoms you're feeling now as a result of eating garbage is a powerful

lesson and it will help you learn how to not slip in the future. What you're

doing right now is not failing. You are learning how to succeed. You've

already accomplished a lot, having stayed raw for 60 days. Focus on your

accomplishments, not your perceived " failures " . And, your inability at this

point to stay raw is not necessarily a reflection of whether or not you care

about yourself. If you didn't care, you wouldn't be trying.

The kind of fasting I was referring to really needs to be supervised. Short

fasts of 3-4 days are manageable without help, but you really need something

longer than that to get the maximum benefit. The danger of fasting alone

when you're still indulging in the SAD lifestyle is that you'll likely have

some uncomfortable symptoms during the fast, plus you might have the tendency

to overeat when coming off the fast. The best and most economical fasting

retreat I'm aware of is Tanglewood Wellness Center

(www.tanglewoodwellnesscenter.com). They'll supervise your fast, make sure

you break it the right way, and teach you how to eat so you stay well.

Also, I offer private consultations for aspiring raw fooders, if you're

interested. If so, feel free to email me privately. (nmlenz)

Nora

Posted October 31, 2003 · October 31, 2003

Ron -

Please don't let those pictures of beautiful people turn you away! And

don't think that we're all some perfect eaters who have never eaten a

Twinkie in our lives!! Every last one of us are former SAD'ers!

So, there is hope. All it takes is one step at a time. You don't have to

do everything at once. Just pick one new habit to adopt and one bad habit

to get rid of at a time. When you get up at 5:30 a.m., put on those walking

shoes, and go outside for a 15 minute walk. Then, come back inside for a

piece of fruit. If you're still hungry, eat another piece of fruit. When

you catch yourself going after the coffee or bacon & eggs, put those walking

shoes back on and go back outside for another 15 minute walk.

As you have noticed, as you make small changes, you feel more energetic and

more positive about things. These feelings help to re-enforce the changes

that you have made, and encourage you to take further steps along the path

to optimal health. It's also important to take that bigger step and go to

one of your local potlucks. When we eat so different from everybody else,

we all need each other.

Please try these simple steps. It's much easier than waiting until you're

told by your doctor that you have to take drugs for the rest of your life

and/or require surgery. We'll all be here to offer our support.

Sue

rlmftw [rlmftw]

Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:00 AM

RawSeattle

[RawSeattle] Re: New Member