Husband and I disagree about raising our child vegetarian (long)

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

Thanks to Davida, I have become aware of this great e-mail list about

vegetarian parenting. Davida contacted me about the following post

which I put on three vegetarian boards online. I've already

exchanged a couple e-mails with Sarah Blum (thank you again Sarah)

which has helped considerably, and now I would like to post our

disagreement to the list in hopes of many replies.

 

THE POST:

I have been vegetarian for 11 years (since 16) and my husband has

been vegetarian for 6 years. We are thinking about starting a family

but our disagreement on this important issue is really holding us

back. I have always imagined raising any children I have as

vegetarians since I am so against eating meat. My husband does not

eat meat for the same moral reasons that I don't, though we both

respect other's choices to eat meat and do not preach our beliefs to

meat-eaters. Enough about that...

 

Our disagreement: I want to raise the child vegetarian from the

start, my husband wants to start the child eating meat and then let

him choose to be a vegetarian later on if he/she decides to. He feels

that becoming a vegetarian is a personal decision that goes against

society's norm and should be left up to the individual, not forced

upon them. I believe this as well, but feel our child should be

brought up vegetarian and then when old enough can decide if he/she

wants to start eating meat. His main concern is that the child will

grow up being teased and feeling left out in some way because his

friends will likely be meat-eaters. He brought up the scenario of our

child being at a birthday party at 5 yrs old and having to not eat

the hot dogs that all the other kids were being served. He thinks

that our 5 yr old should be able to eat that hot dog if he wants to -

I think not.

 

I have dealt with a lot of criticism of course, but I switched to

vegetarian at 16 when I could easily defend myself (believe me, my

family gave me hell). I never saw a young vegetarian child be teased,

but I can't say that I knew/know many vegetarian children. My husband

grew up calling the vegetarians down the street " weed eaters " and

thinking they were strange. You can see why we have different

opinions on this.

 

To me it seems so obvious that our child should be vegetarian at

least until he is old enough to form his own opinion for many

reasons - 1) I don't plan on eating meat during pregnancy, he'll be

vegetarian from the start so why change later on, 2) Being vegetarian

is a strong moral choice for me, and for my husband as well, 3) A

child can get teased for anything these days and being vegetarian

isn't the worst thing that people could make fun of, and finally 4) I

am sure we can raise the child to be proud of being vegetarian and to

understand that someone who makes fun of him just might not really

understand the reasons for not eating meat.

**added question from my husband since the original post... " how old

is old enough? "

 

To my husband it seems so obviously wrong to force a child to be

vegetarian. We feel equally strong about our opinions and really are

in a dilemma here. Unfortunately we can't just agree to disagree and

still have a child in this situation.

 

So, he suggested I get other's opinions on this. Can you share your

experiences raising vegetarian children? any problems with teasing?

Does the child understand at a young age why we don't eat meat? What

do you do when the child is not with you (say, at a friend's birthday

party) and meat is served - how do you explain to a 5 year old that

they aren't supposed to eat what their friends are eating? Do your

children feel bad because they often have to have something different

to eat?

 

***I'd like to add that at the present time, my husband seems to be

searching for people who have been vegetarian/vegan from birth

(though I'd love to hear from anyone on this topic). He wants to

know how difficult it is for them to deal with teasing and

disapproval from others. I have some hope now because he did say

that if he heard from veggies-from-birth people who had good

experiences, he would consider giving it a shot. Believe me, him

saying this feels like a victory all in its own already (It's been

such a struggle)!!

 

Any replies would be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance!

 

Hilary

[Guest guest]

Hilary,

 

You said that you and your husband are vegetarian because of moral reasons.

That, alone, tells me that you should raise your children veg. One of a

parent's primary duties is to pass along moral guidance.

 

If you were Jewish, but lived in a predominately Catholic neighborhood,

would you raise your children as Catholic, just so they wouldn't be teased

by the other kids? Of course not! To me, this is very similar and I'm not

even vegetarian (although my daughter is)!

 

I agree with you that the children should be raised as veg, but allowed to

make their own decision when they are older. However - the next " big

decision " would be how old is old enough to make that kind of decision?! Ah

yes....the challenges of being a parent.....

 

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

Jenna

 

 

_______________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

Hilary,

Hi there,

I myself only have a 4 1/2 month old baby, who is being exclusively breastfed

currently. She will be vegan however. But I know 5 families with vegan kids,

ranging in age from

14 to 2 and younger, who have all been vegan from birth. I can tell you with no

qualms, that these kids are some of the best adjusted kids I have ever known.

While I have met

one mom over the internet whose child had occasional problems with teasing, I

can tell you that this was the exception. The kids I personally know have had

no problems with

this. By the time they are about 2, they seem to understand why they don't eat

meat and agree with their parents' ethical choices. I think if you are raising

an ethical vegan

child (as opposed to for health reasons) the child will stick with your choices.

These days there are so many options (soy dogs, deli " meats " ) that the kids I

know hardly get a

comment about their alternative meals. Plus, many kids dont' eat dairy and

such for allergy reasons more and more these days, so " weird " diets aren't as

notable as they used to

be. I would be happy to have you communicate directly with these families and

their kids if you feel that's necessary, just email me privately and I'll see

what I can do.

You may also want to check out a few websites.

http://www.veggiebaby.com/

These people have a great magazine called Vegetarian Baby and Child which comes

out every couple months.

Another good resource: http://www.vegfamily.com/

I hope this helps! If your child is raised on meat, it will give him

conflicting values - why does he do something that his parents believe is

morally wrong? Kids I know are

very happy and comfortable with their identities as ethical vegans. In fact,

most kids somewhere around age 4 or 5 upon hearing where meat comes from become

veg for a day or

two, until their well-meaning parent convinces them why it's " right " to eat

meat. It is a child's natural way to love animals and to have compassion for

all living beings. Like

I said, I'd be happy to hook you up with some older vegan kids and talk directly

to them over email or something.

Leena

--

" Teaching a child not to step on a caterpillar is as valuable to the child as it

is to the caterpillar. "

Bradley Miller

 

All beings tremble before violence.

All love life.

All fear death.

See yourself in others.

Then whom can you hurt?

What harm can you do?

-The Buddha

 

Visit the garden: http://www.leenasgarden.com

[Guest guest]

Hilary,

My husband and I have been vegetarian for about 12 years now. Our two

children, ages 5 and 9 have been vegetarian from birth, and I can comment

on some of the issues you raised. I would also be happy to discuss this

in further detail if you want to email me directly.

 

First, to me, it seems sensible and " natural " for the child to follow

his/her own family's patterns, to fit in with the culture of the family

and later to make choices about the larger world. How would a child feel

to realize he/she is eating in a way that is antithethical to her/his

parents' ethics? I would wonder if It could create some problems if you

have one set of moral rules for yourselves and a different one for your

child.

 

No one has teased my kids about being vegetarian, although I'm

discovering that my older son keeps a low profile at school so as not to

seem different. It probably doesn't matter; many kids in grade school

seem to prefer vegetarian foods. He is lacto-vegetarian (that is, the

only dairy product he eats is vegetarian rennet cheese on pizza but

drinks soymilk, etc...) He brings pizza to school daily and his friends

clammor for a piece. I " ve had moms ask me how I make it and even what

cheese I use because their kids wanted pizza just like my son's. He also

met a vegetarian classmate (an 8 yr old who is the only vegetarian in her

family because she loves animals!) My younger daughter has been in a

sheltered preschool environment for only a few mornings a week, and I'm

not sure what will happen in kindergarten this fall, but it seems the

neighborhood kids take her diet in stride, although she isn't big on

pizza; one has even learned to like soymilk and asks for it when she is

playing here.

 

My son finally grasped the concept of why we are vegetarian when he was

about 4 and we watched the Simpsons cartoon about Lisa going vegetarian.

Victor the Vegetarian was a book that helped, too. He became a staunch

vegetarian at that point and made a point of teaching his younger sister,

who I think became fully aware of being a vegetarian at about the same

age. She seems less committed and more prone to experimentation, but then

she is younger. In any case, both kids know we will love them whatever

choices they make as they get older.

 

Our children think meat is disgusting. They can't imagine why anyone

would want to eat a dead animal. BUT they have a harder time with

candies containing gelatin--some brands of fruit rollups, gummi worms,

marshmallows, and have slipped up occasionally by eating these away from

home-and then they find they LIKE them. They seem to feel this is

different somehow from eating meat, perhaps because it doesn't look like

a piece of dead animal. We have provided substitutes when possible, and

they make their own decisions away from home...I often don't find out

about it until later my son eats a gummiworm at school. My son feels

" bad " about eating such things, but he sometimes weakens and we try not

to make a big deal out of it, reminding him of the reasons for not eating

gelatin and encouraging him to think carefully about his choices. They

know I won't buy the stuff for them. I have to keep reminding myself

that there is not going to be any such thing as perfection, and that I do

not have absolute control over my kids as they grow older.

 

We did have an incident at school when the music teacher made chicken

soup with rice for the class and the kids were told everyone had to at

least taste it. My son did try a drop, and felt awful, also said it made

him gag. I spoke to the teacher about it , and of course she had

forgotten he was vegetarian and was quite apologetic. It would be easier

if my kids were not so shy and afraid to speak up !

 

I'm sure there is more I could think of to say, but this is getting long

enough. Good luck! Susan

______________

GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!

Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!

Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:

http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

[Guest guest]

I don't think there's anyone on this planet who doesn't raise their children

(consciously or unconsciously) without their own value system. You can't

help it. And that's the best part of being a parent - getting to teach your

children good values.

 

As a vegetarian, you already know what it means to be " different " . But at

some point you made the decision to be different and the best thing you can

teach your children is to learn how to follow their heart, do the right

thing and feel comfortable with being different. If you didn't raise your

children as vegetarians, how would you explain to them why you are

vegetarian but not them? It's not about " forcing " your values on your

children. They need guidance. They need to be like mommy and daddy more

than they need to be like their friends. And where does it stop - if their

friends like to go hunting, do you buy them a gun and let them go too so

they can decide for themself? Where do you draw the line about being

different?

 

My husband and I have been vegan for about ten years and we have two

children, 3-1/2 and 7, who were raised vegan from birth. We always told

them why we were vegan and we told them that most people, including

grandma, grandpa and most of their friends weren't. We try to teach them

compassion for all living things and we told them, at an early age (without

gory details) what " meat " really is and how dairy and eggs come from the

same factory farms. They do understand and I don't think they're horrified

and scared - I think they understand and truly don't want to be a part of

that. My son (7) always asks, wherever he goes, what the ingredients in

foods are. Ever since he learned to read, he reads food labels and knows

ingredients, and their origin, better than most consumers. And he's not

afraid of being different. I think it gives him a better sense of self and

his place in this world. When they go to parties, if they can't serve

vegetarian food, we bring the equivalent with us - if other kids are eating

pizza, we bring pizza without cheese (neither of my children have expressed

an interest in cheese or meat, etc), if they serve hot dogs we bring tofu

pups. If there's birthday cake, we bring our own cake or cookies and

everyone is happy just to be with each other and play. No one worries about

the food except the parents!

 

If you are vegetarian because you feel it's right for you then it has to be

right for your children. They have their whole life to make their own

choices - you need to steer them (not force) in the direction of the right

choices.

 

Susan C.

 

 

-

<chadhil

 

Wednesday, July 25, 2001 5:28 PM

Husband and I disagree about raising our child

vegetarian (long)

 

 

> Hello,

>

> Thanks to Davida, I have become aware of this great e-mail list about

> vegetarian parenting. Davida contacted me about the following post

> which I put on three vegetarian boards online. I've already

> exchanged a couple e-mails with Sarah Blum (thank you again Sarah)

> which has helped considerably, and now I would like to post our

> disagreement to the list in hopes of many replies.

>

> THE POST:

> I have been vegetarian for 11 years (since 16) and my husband has

> been vegetarian for 6 years. We are thinking about starting a family

> but our disagreement on this important issue is really holding us

> back. I have always imagined raising any children I have as

> vegetarians since I am so against eating meat. My husband does not

> eat meat for the same moral reasons that I don't, though we both

> respect other's choices to eat meat and do not preach our beliefs to

> meat-eaters. Enough about that...

>

> Our disagreement: I want to raise the child vegetarian from the

> start, my husband wants to start the child eating meat and then let

> him choose to be a vegetarian later on if he/she decides to. He feels

> that becoming a vegetarian is a personal decision that goes against

> society's norm and should be left up to the individual, not forced

> upon them. I believe this as well, but feel our child should be

> brought up vegetarian and then when old enough can decide if he/she

> wants to start eating meat. His main concern is that the child will

> grow up being teased and feeling left out in some way because his

> friends will likely be meat-eaters. He brought up the scenario of our

> child being at a birthday party at 5 yrs old and having to not eat

> the hot dogs that all the other kids were being served. He thinks

> that our 5 yr old should be able to eat that hot dog if he wants to -

> I think not.

>

> I have dealt with a lot of criticism of course, but I switched to

> vegetarian at 16 when I could easily defend myself (believe me, my

> family gave me hell). I never saw a young vegetarian child be teased,

> but I can't say that I knew/know many vegetarian children. My husband

> grew up calling the vegetarians down the street " weed eaters " and

> thinking they were strange. You can see why we have different

> opinions on this.

>

> To me it seems so obvious that our child should be vegetarian at

> least until he is old enough to form his own opinion for many

> reasons - 1) I don't plan on eating meat during pregnancy, he'll be

> vegetarian from the start so why change later on, 2) Being vegetarian

> is a strong moral choice for me, and for my husband as well, 3) A

> child can get teased for anything these days and being vegetarian

> isn't the worst thing that people could make fun of, and finally 4) I

> am sure we can raise the child to be proud of being vegetarian and to

> understand that someone who makes fun of him just might not really

> understand the reasons for not eating meat.

> **added question from my husband since the original post... " how old

> is old enough? "

>

> To my husband it seems so obviously wrong to force a child to be

> vegetarian. We feel equally strong about our opinions and really are

> in a dilemma here. Unfortunately we can't just agree to disagree and

> still have a child in this situation.

>

> So, he suggested I get other's opinions on this. Can you share your

> experiences raising vegetarian children? any problems with teasing?

> Does the child understand at a young age why we don't eat meat? What

> do you do when the child is not with you (say, at a friend's birthday

> party) and meat is served - how do you explain to a 5 year old that

> they aren't supposed to eat what their friends are eating? Do your

> children feel bad because they often have to have something different

> to eat?

>

> ***I'd like to add that at the present time, my husband seems to be

> searching for people who have been vegetarian/vegan from birth

> (though I'd love to hear from anyone on this topic). He wants to

> know how difficult it is for them to deal with teasing and

> disapproval from others. I have some hope now because he did say

> that if he heard from veggies-from-birth people who had good

> experiences, he would consider giving it a shot. Believe me, him

> saying this feels like a victory all in its own already (It's been

> such a struggle)!!

>

> Any replies would be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance!

>

> Hilary

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.

>

>

[Guest guest]

" And where does it stop - if their friends like to go hunting, do

you buy them a gun and let them go too so they can decide for

themself? Where do you draw the line about being different? "

 

Hi Susan,

Thank you for your reply! I want to reply to the above quote from

your post because HE DID SAY THAT OUR CHILD SHOULD BE ABLE TO GO

HUNTING WITH HIS FRIENDS IF HE'S ASKED!! So, you can see just how

hard our conversations can get over here. His reasons, he always

felt left out because he didn't get to go to the cabin with his dad

and brothers and do the bonding stuff that apparently goes on there.

He chose not to hunt because he didn't think he could kill an animal -

something that I truly admire, but why oh why does he think that it

is okay for his child to go do so?? Just venting there, sorry! I

know the answer...he doesn't want our child to feel left out. I

tried to explain that there are other ways a child could feel he/she

is bonding with people and hunting doesn't have to be involved. Some

families out there who do eat meat don't go hunting but he just

doesn't seem to see it from a different angle. Oh I am getting

frustrated just typing this, lol. I haven't brought it up to him in

a couple days (we need a break) but I am printing out all of the

replies to bring to him once this thread dies down.

 

I see I have a few more replies to read (yay) - thank you ALL for

your help

 

Hilary

[Guest guest]

--- .

>

Can you share your

> experiences raising vegetarian children? any problems with teasing?

> Does the child understand at a young age why we don't eat meat?

What

> do you do when the child is not with you (say, at a friend's

birthday

> party) and meat is served - how do you explain to a 5 year old that

> they aren't supposed to eat what their friends are eating? Do your

> children feel bad because they often have to have something

different

> to eat?

Dear Hilary,

I thought about this over a while.Many people have aready addressed

the issue about raising a kid meat eating while the family is veg.So

I will not also go on about that.I think that the fear of your DH

must be something from his childhood thatmight not seem so fearful if

he talks about.I do not think that making decisions from a what might

happen place, is the best way.What kind of life do you want for this

child?might be a better place.I also think that your DH is a deep

thinker and once he reread the info. about what meat and dairy do

once inside a body he will not want to feed that junk to his baby.I

am thinking that once he reads how safe homebirths are he will want

his baby born at home.Once he reads how happy men are with a foreskin

he will not want to cut off his sons,once he reads what is in

formules he will only want breast milk in his baby,once her reads how

happy and well ajusted home school families are he will want this

for his family also. OH I of course could go on like this with many

different issuses as you see there are many decisions to make about

how much are you willing to act like everyone else.I do not think

that being like everyone is all that great.Walking around buying and

using thing up just because you can?

I have a 13 yrs and a 6 yrs vegetarian DD they feel go about who they

are. They have and get alone with friends mostly meat eaters.I feel

good about what I have done for this Planet raising two

thinking,strong,healthy people that will walk lightly on Mother

Earth,not eating and buying all that they can get thier hands on.

I would love to know what you and DD are talking about after

reading all of your emails.

Love Felice

[Guest guest]

Thanks for writing-----

 

My wife and I are the blessed and proud parents of two beautiful vegan

children.

I'm replying after chatting with her about this.

Our take on it is this:

 

-having a scope on the health benefits of our veganism as well as the

humane ones, choosing to feed our children a meat-based diet until they

can decide for themselves would be equal to deliberately feeding our

children slow-acting poisons in the form of growth hormones, steroids,

pesticides, etc. inherent in this diet. We are certain enough in our

beliefs to want our children to ingest healthy food and to know the truth

about the meat industry when the time comes. Our older daughter is 3 and

understands that we don't eat animals because we love and respect all of

God's creatures, but others are allowed to make their own food choices.

She has many good friends and loved relatives who eat meat.

 

-being teased about having a compassionate heart is a " consider the

source " issue. Would these be real friends, and if not, could their

comments injure a confident child? We can't please everyone, and

sometimes those who criticize vegetarians are those who seek to discredit

others to ease their own guilt.

 

-at certain events such as birthday parties (where we normally try to

bring a vegan cake/cookies) where cake/ cookies/ etc. are offerred, we

discuss it with our child and let them decide. A directive from us to

abstain from their food, essentailly separating her from her friends,

could have the effect of leaving her feeling deprived, isolated, weird,

and different from her peer group. this would be really harmful to their

impression of veganism.

 

-We feel we are in a special group and very priviledged to be vegan,

understanding our diet and lifestyle, it's impact on us and our world. We

want our children to feel this pride in their identity.

 

-best wishes on your great adventure of a vegan family!

 

 

______________

GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!

Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!

Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:

http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

[Guest guest]

>...he doesn't want our child to feel left out. I

> tried to explain that there are other ways a child could feel he/she

> is bonding with people and hunting doesn't have to be involved. Some

> families out there who do eat meat don't go hunting but he just

> doesn't seem to see it from a different angle.

 

My first thought on this was...Is it OK for your child to smoke so that

he/she doesn't feel left out? so that he/she will feel like they are part

of that group and be able to bond with that group. same thing about drugs.

This is the number one reason children say that they do these things.

In my thoughts, if you are raising a vegan child then they are much more

stronger against the influence of peers against choices that can damage them

and that much more further away from using alcohol, smoking, or using drugs.

 

Without a parent's guidance then how is a child to know which choices are

right or wrong?

 

~Zena, Lactation Counselor & Financial Consultant in Las Vegas

mother of Thad 14yo; Thea 11.75yo; Sariah 7yo; & Charles 5yo

www.wmas.com & www.slingsnthings.com

ICQ#23200192 AIM: zena1st

" If it wasn't *hard* then everyone would be doing it! It's the *hard* that

makes it so Great! " ~ From the movie " A League of Their Own "