Guest guest Posted August 6, 2001 Report Share Posted August 6, 2001 Hi- I apologize ahead of time if this question seems ignorant. I've been wondering of Zoos are a good thing or a bad thing. I mean, are they beneficial to the animals? Is it better to let nature take its course, rather than force an animal to spend the time it has left on this earth in a cage? I have an 18 month old son whose Grandparents are just dying to take him to a zoo. So I'm wondering if it is something I should support or not. Any insights are greatly appreciated. Thanks, Karen Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger http://phonecard./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 I am also torn over the whole zoo issue. We really do have a nice zoo out here. They have tried to recreate the animals natural habitat and to give them plenty of room, they do look well treated, yet, I do feel bad about that fact that they are not allowed to roam free as they did out in the wild nor do they have the chance to hunt or to choose their own mates. But, some of the species that are in zoos are endangered and are at risk of being hunted, many of them are losing their natural habitats as it is. I don't agree with whoever compared all zoos to rodeos or circuses, animals in rodeos and circuses are beaten for entertainment. I was involved with an animal rights group and did a few protests with them, one of them being a circus protest, we had the support of the head of the zoo out here, he also worked with us to try to get the animals out of the zoo. Our zoo also lets all of the local animal shelters come out and have a big adoption show so that they can find good homes for all of the animals, it really helps the smaller organizations that don't have the money or fundraising capabilities as the " in " humane Society, most of the shelters that participate in it do not euthanize and some of them have " foster " parents do all of the sheltering in their own homes. I do see the good and the bad with zoos. Sara Colin's Ap Mama We haven't inherited the earth, we are only borrowing it from our children. Come see us at <A HREF= " http://members.tripod.com/colinsapmama/ " >http://members.tripod.com/colinsa\ pmama/</A> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 Karen, We've had a hard time trying to figure out what we think about zoos, too. At this point we feel that a good zoo with well-cared-for animals with decent habitat is not a bad place for an animal to live, but I know that many feel that an animal should not be a captive. Some include companion animals in that. I imagine each person has to search his/her own conscience to find the answer. Susan ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 I can't tell you how often I have wondered this myself. After learning about an animal it is so neat to see them in the live....but I always feel horrible after visiting a zoo. It depresses me greatly. The animals are often lethargic and sickly looking or their cages stink to high heaven. I went to a sort of " zoo " one time that cured sickly animals and then turned them loose. It was such a different experience. The animals looked healthy and lively and curious. I don't know the answer but I think from now on I will support the shelter type by visiting. I think it is a tough issue. Some animals that are in the zoo have no natural habitat left. I haven't really made up my mind on the issue if you can tell. I have four kiddos who love to go and see the animals at the zoo. Only one of my children have mentioned on their own that it seems cruel. Renee - " Karen Butler " <kbutlerjr Monday, August 06, 2001 3:31 PM Zoos > Hi- > > I apologize ahead of time if this question seems > ignorant. I've been wondering of Zoos are a good > thing or a bad thing. I mean, are they beneficial to > the animals? Is it better to let nature take its > course, rather than force an animal to spend the time > it has left on this earth in a cage? I have an 18 > month old son whose Grandparents are just dying to > take him to a zoo. So I'm wondering if it is > something I should support or not. Any insights are > greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Karen > > > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger > http://phonecard./ > > > > For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to http://www.vrg.org/family. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 In a message dated 8/7/2001 12:05:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ccl writes: > We have a small " petting " zoo near our house that keeps " farm " animals > I am grateful that not too far from me there is an animal rights activist couple that bought a farm and the have rescued farm animals there, they are allowed to live out their years in peace. Some of the animals are in bad shape or were in bad shape. I am still trying to get ahold of them to see if and when we can come and visit. They used to have volunteers come out once a month and help with the animals and then have a vegan potluck afterwards but they stopped it. Sara Colin's Ap Mama A baby will only spoil if you leave it on the shelf. Come see us at <A HREF= " http://www.sos.state.mi.us/election/elecadmin/2000web/index.html " > </A>h<A HREF= " http://members.tripod.com/colinsapmama/ " >ttp://members.tripod.com/colinsap\ mama/</A> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 Hi Karen, Our beliefs are that zoos are no different than circuses, rodeos & racetracks. The abuse is more apparent at a circus than a zoo, although the environment that these animals are forced to live in caged resembles prisons where inmates serve life sentences with no chance of parole. Larger zoos do there best I feel to simulate natural habitats, but it is really to appeal to the audiences rather than the animals. These animals are taken from very different climates than the cities in which they are kept. Zoos also do not enable animals to hunt, mate, socialize and live as they were intended to. We are teaching young children that it is okay to take animals out of their natural habitat, cage them and keep them unwillingly. It is a very hard choice to make to not support these forms of animal exploitations. Try to remember the animals, do you think if they had a choice would they be there? They are used for profit entertainment, that's it. I have 4 children myself, ranging from 12 years - 4 years. There are plenty of other forms of entertainment that the grandparents can take your child to. If you are interested, there is a wonderful book called Beyond the Bars, the author is Virginia McKenna. Good Luck!! Love & Peace NormaJean >Karen Butler <kbutlerjr > > > Zoos >Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:31:29 -0700 (PDT) > >Hi- > >I apologize ahead of time if this question seems >ignorant. I've been wondering of Zoos are a good >thing or a bad thing. I mean, are they beneficial to >the animals? Is it better to let nature take its >course, rather than force an animal to spend the time >it has left on this earth in a cage? I have an 18 >month old son whose Grandparents are just dying to >take him to a zoo. So I'm wondering if it is >something I should support or not. Any insights are >greatly appreciated. > >Thanks, > >Karen > > > >Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger >http://phonecard./ > _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 Thank you NormaJean. That is very much how I felt, I think I just wanted reassurance that there isn't really a good reason why the animals should be in a zoo. Now I just have to convince the Grandparents who already think I am a bit looney for raising a veggie child. Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger http://phonecard./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 We have a small " petting " zoo near our house that keeps " farm " animals and I take my 2-year-old there frequently. My feelings about it are this: you generally don't see cows, pigs and chickens in the " wild " -- they don't have natural habitats anymore. As obnoxious as the concept is, the zoo is not going to disappear if I don' t take my daughter there. So I use it as an early form of vegetarian education: " Look at the baby cow...and look! it has a mommy! Do you want to touch it? It's soft, isn't it? We only give cows nice touches. That's why we would never kill them and eat them. No, way! We like cows... " And she agrees that the animals are " nice " and it's good to be nice to them. It makes other parents with their kids uncomfortable when they hear us (I've had people grab their kids and back slowly away)...but that's their problem. If they're comfortable with where their food comes from, I'm sure they'll have no problem explaining it to their kids:) Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 The only good thing I can think of about zoos is any research they might be doing about how to save or propegate endangered species who would be at risk in their own environment. The Vancouver zoo and aquarium near me has closed most of the zoo part. There are many animals in the aquarium but I believe they sent the whale to the US somewhere so it has more room and friends. They have had a lot of public outcry about the zoo and aquarium and now it seems like they are turning the place more into an educational facility...perhaps they can start tours to study whales in the wild:) Certainly with new technologies they could do a lot of public education without having the actual animals there. Zoos could be linked with field studies where kids could talk with scientists about their work and see movies (the IMAX is pretty life like) or study animals through computers. As well, zoos could focus more on local ecology and be centers for research and public education of local species -- perhaps be like an animal hospital or shelter for animals while they are recovering and kids could observe this process or go on field trips into the surrounding area. I definately think the traditional zoos of the past -- foreign animals on display in small cages should be a thing of the past -- I guess you can vote with your feet by not going to these zoos. Mel. Karen Butler [kbutlerjr] Monday, August 06, 2001 1:31 PM Zoos Hi- I apologize ahead of time if this question seems ignorant. I've been wondering of Zoos are a good thing or a bad thing. I mean, are they beneficial to the animals? Is it better to let nature take its course, rather than force an animal to spend the time it has left on this earth in a cage? I have an 18 month old son whose Grandparents are just dying to take him to a zoo. So I'm wondering if it is something I should support or not. Any insights are greatly appreciated. Thanks, Karen Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger http://phonecard./ For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to http://www.vrg.org/family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2001 Report Share Posted August 7, 2001 I like your approach. When we go to county fairs where they have petting zoos, I say the same thing to my children. Even more educational is the fact that most of the animals at the petting zoo are only there temporarily until they are killed for food. I remember how upset I got when I was young and my mother took me to a petting zoo only to tell me not to get too attached because the lamb was soon to be a lamb chop on someone's plate. Better than zoos are are animal sanctuaries, like the Farm Sanctuary in Watkins Glen, New York - they take in downed animals and take care of them for life. You can take a tour, pet the animals, and they also have B & B accommodations where you can stay overnight and get a vegan breakfast also! There are several sanctuaries across the country that allow visitors and I think these are great alternatives to zoos. I am most familiar with the Farm Sanctuary because I live in upstate NY, but maybe Davida can interject with the names of some others. Susan C. - <ccl Tuesday, August 07, 2001 2:41 PM Re: Zoos > We have a small " petting " zoo near our house that keeps " farm " animals > and I take my 2-year-old there frequently. My feelings about it are > this: you generally don't see cows, pigs and chickens in the " wild " -- > they don't have natural habitats anymore. As obnoxious as the concept > is, the zoo is not going to disappear if I don' t take my daughter > there. So I use it as an early form of vegetarian education: > " Look at the baby cow...and look! it has a mommy! Do you want to touch > it? It's soft, isn't it? We only give cows nice touches. That's why we > would never kill them and eat them. No, way! We like cows... " And she > agrees that the animals are " nice " and it's good to be nice to them. It > makes other parents with their kids uncomfortable when they hear us > (I've had people grab their kids and back slowly away)...but that's > their problem. If they're comfortable with where their food comes > from, I'm sure they'll have no problem explaining it to their kids:) > > Carol > > > > > > For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to http://www.vrg.org/family. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2001 Report Share Posted August 8, 2001 Hi there, I was a bit late checking email, so here's a late 2 cents. I've copied the text below from another email list I belonged to about zoos, which I thought was pretty interesting. Also, you have to consider that zoos breed animals in excess of what they need, as only some babies are cute enough or desirable in other ways for display. What happens to the excess animals? They are routinely sold to circuses, road side and travelling " zoos " or carnival shows, canned hunts, exotic animal dealers, or worse yet, to labs for experimentation. I have copied a newspaper article in relation to this as well. " Animals in zoos suffer terribly from depression, anxiety, neurosis, loneliness, confusion, anger... All because, in many respects, they are in an unnatural environment . They have synthetic trees and grass. They have food given to them at regulated intervals, rather than gathering food for themselves all day. Children and adults talk and point and laugh and poke at their cages all day, candy wrappers and pop cans find their way into the cages, I could go on and on. Animals are mostly born in the zoos, so they never get to use their natural instincts. Their whole life is lived in strange, unnatural captivity, merely for our entertainment. If you've been to a zoo, you've seen the animals pace back and forth, back and forth, for hours. You've seen the monkeys go crazy, flinging around their cages. You've smelled the conditions they live in. You've seen the discarded popcorn bag being picked up by the bears, wondering what this strange thing is. The animals, just in their appearance, look disturbed. The sad thing is, zoos and aquariums are mystifying and captivating to their audience. I used to love the zoo when I was a kid, before I understood the misery the animals go through. I even enjoyed an aquarium, after I became vegan! The animals are interesting to look at and learn about. What we need to remember is that although these animals are interesting and diverse, we can not and should not get to know them more than through a TV or first hand experience in their natural environment. Animals are not for our use. We need to co-exist in order for everyone to live in peace. " And the newspaper article: Zoo fails in bid to recover giraffes Sunday, July 29, 2001 ATLANTIC CITY -- Cape May County Zoo officials may have stuck their necks out on this one. The zoo sold two giraffes for $3,000 each to an upstate New York animal broker in December. The giraffes ended up in a Bradenton, Fla., circus and now the zoo wants them back. The trouble is, all giraffe sales apparently are final. " I wouldn't sell them, " Circus Hollywood owner Serge Landkas told The Press of Atlantic City for Saturday's editions. " They're part of the family now. " The young male giraffes, Twiggs and Jeffrey, are now stars of the circus's petting zoo, which includes a zebra, two camels, goats, and llamas. The circus is putting on nightly shows this month in Wildwood. Life for the pair changed after they started fighting with older giraffes in the Cape May County Zoo's herd, said zoo Director William Sturm Jr. The county tried to find suitable homes for the pair through the American Zoo and Aquarium Association, an organization that accredits zoos nationwide. The zoo ended up selling the giraffes to animal broker Ed Novack of Cairo, N.Y., who resold them to Landkas. Sturm and other zoo officials went to Wildwood on Wednesday to see how the giraffes were being treated. Sturm said they saw nothing wrong. But Landkas was asked if he would give the animals back. He declined. 2001 North Jersey Media Group Inc. Hope this helps with your grandparents, Leena -- " Teaching a child not to step on a caterpillar is as valuable to the child as it is to the caterpillar. " Bradley Miller All beings tremble before violence. All love life. All fear death. See yourself in others. Then whom can you hurt? What harm can you do? -The Buddha Visit the garden: http://www.leenasgarden.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2001 Report Share Posted August 8, 2001 In a message dated 8/8/2001 5:39:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, leena writes: > Animals in zoos suffer terribly from depression, anxiety, neurosis, > loneliness, confusion, anger... All because, in many respects, they are in > an unnatural environment . They have synthetic trees and grass. They have > food given to them at regulated intervals, rather than gathering food for > themselves all day. In the Detroit Zoo's defense I do have to say that they do not have any synthetic trees or grass, the animals aren't even in traditional cages. They have a huge chimpanzee and gorilla exhibit that is so big and full of trees that sometimes you can't even see them. They try very hard to recreate the natural habitat and like I stated before, they are against the using of animals in circuses. Sara Colin's Ap Mama A baby will only spoil if you leave it on the shelf. Come see us at <A HREF= " http://www.sos.state.mi.us/election/elecadmin/2000web/index.html " > </A>h<A HREF= " http://members.tripod.com/colinsapmama/ " >ttp://members.tripod.com/colinsap\ mama/</A> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2001 Report Share Posted August 8, 2001 In a message dated 8/8/2001 12:09:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, njleeaz writes: > Sara, > I did not bother to respond when you stated your dissagreement with the > comparison I used between zoos, rodeos & circuses. I felt that I needed to > respond now since you seem to be overlooking some of the facts, seemingly > content with the thoughts that the Detroit zoo does a good job with > simulating a natural habitat for these animals. > I guess that we will have to agree to disagree on this point, eh? Sara Colin's Ap Mama A baby will only spoil if you leave it on the shelf. Come see us at <A HREF= " http://www.sos.state.mi.us/election/elecadmin/2000web/index.html " > </A>h<A HREF= " http://members.tripod.com/colinsapmama/ " >ttp://members.tripod.com/colinsap\ mama/</A> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2001 Report Share Posted August 8, 2001 Sara, I did not bother to respond when you stated your dissagreement with the comparison I used between zoos, rodeos & circuses. I felt that I needed to respond now since you seem to be overlooking some of the facts, seemingly content with the thoughts that the Detroit zoo does a good job with simulating a natural habitat for these animals. If zoos were truly concerned about the welfare of endangered animals, they would be doing everything possible to ensure the preservation of natural habitats, not try to create profit-oriented artificial ones! Adults & children alike can learn all about exotic animals by observing them in their " natural habitat " or for most of us we study them through books, films & photographs. Keep in mind the chosen animals are taken from their natural habitat & their families then segregated at the zoo often in solitary confinement or in pairs. Zookeepers are concerned with creating an attractive exhibit, keeping the animals docile (there are many ways they do this), & encouraging them to breed. Also if an animal has been bred or reared in captivity it is impossible to release it into the wild. It could have a hard time surviving without being familiar with its true environment. Surplus zoo animals are sold to other zoos, circuses, breeders, canned-hunt game farms (fenced in land where pursued animals cannot escape from hunters), research laboratories, also processors of exotic meat & hides. In conclusion, there is so much abuse zoo animals go through! Love & Peace NormaJean >colinsapmama > > >Re: Zoos >Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:29:07 EDT > >In a message dated 8/8/2001 5:39:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >leena writes: > > > > Animals in zoos suffer terribly from depression, anxiety, neurosis, > > loneliness, confusion, anger... All because, in many respects, they are >in > > an unnatural environment . They have synthetic trees and grass. They >have > > food given to them at regulated intervals, rather than gathering food >for > > themselves all day. > >In the Detroit Zoo's defense I do have to say that they do not have any >synthetic trees or grass, the animals aren't even in traditional cages. >They >have a huge chimpanzee and gorilla exhibit that is so big and full of trees >that sometimes you can't even see them. They try very hard to recreate the >natural habitat and like I stated before, they are against the using of >animals in circuses. > >Sara >Colin's Ap Mama >A baby will only spoil if you leave it on the shelf. >Come see us at <A >HREF= " http://www.sos.state.mi.us/election/elecadmin/2000web/index.html " > ></A>h<A >HREF= " http://members.tripod.com/colinsapmama/ " >ttp://members.tripod.com/colinsa\ pmama/</A> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2001 Report Share Posted August 8, 2001 Same here. In the Zurich zoo you don't have anything synthetic, they have beautifully re-created natural environment for every animal and all animals have plenty of space. Hugs, " My darling girl, when are you going to understand that being normal isn't necessarily a virtue. It rather denotes a lack of courage! " Aunt Frances in Practical Magic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2001 Report Share Posted August 8, 2001 I think that the answer to your question, " are zoos a good thing or a bad thing " , is a resounding yes. This issue seems to have more clear plusses and minuses than most any I can think of. I have seen small local zoos that are so obviously cruel with their small enclosures and depressed looking animals. I have also seen zoos that expend great efforts in preservation and reintroduction of injured or endangered species into the wild. A great deal of research into the social and physical wellbeing of animals both captive and in the wild is funded and carried out through zoos. Zoos are behind the reintroduction of Condors into the wild. Condors born in captivity, raised in captivity and taught to survive in the wild by dedicated zoo employees. A great deal of suffering is created by less reputable zoos. There was a small local zoo in my area that was shutdown because of the terrible conditions that animals were kept in. I only know that, even though I often find zoos depressing myself, they played a role in helping to teach my children to love and respect life in its various forms. Not that it couldn't have been accomplished without them, just that it wasn't. Phil Welsher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2001 Report Share Posted August 8, 2001 That works for me. NormaJean >colinsapmama > > >Re: Zoos >Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:20:26 EDT > >In a message dated 8/8/2001 12:09:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >njleeaz writes: > > > > Sara, > > I did not bother to respond when you stated your dissagreement with the > > comparison I used between zoos, rodeos & circuses. I felt that I needed >to > > respond now since you seem to be overlooking some of the facts, >seemingly > > content with the thoughts that the Detroit zoo does a good job with > > simulating a natural habitat for these animals. > > > >I guess that we will have to agree to disagree on this point, eh? > >Sara >Colin's Ap Mama >A baby will only spoil if you leave it on the shelf. >Come see us at <A >HREF= " http://www.sos.state.mi.us/election/elecadmin/2000web/index.html " > ></A>h<A >HREF= " http://members.tripod.com/colinsapmama/ " >ttp://members.tripod.com/colinsa\ pmama/</A> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 We are supporters of a wonderful animal sanctuary in Kanab, Utah. Best Friends Animal Sanctuary is amazing, you can visit there, there near the Grand Canyon, their newsletter is amazing. Check this out as an alternative to zoos. www.bestfriends.org 435/644-2001 you can ask for free information about visiting the 3000 acre sanct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2001 Report Share Posted September 6, 2001 If you are looking for a place to educate your daughter there are many animal friendly and cruelty free farms to do so at. As for the comment that taking your daughter to the zoo will not make zoos go away a wise person once said " Do not believe that one person or a small group can not make a difference, for indeed it is the only thing that ever has " Just something to ponder. , ccl@p... wrote: > We have a small " petting " zoo near our house that keeps " farm " animals > and I take my 2-year-old there frequently. My feelings about it are > this: you generally don't see cows, pigs and chickens in the " wild " -- > they don't have natural habitats anymore. As obnoxious as the concept > is, the zoo is not going to disappear if I don' t take my daughter > there. So I use it as an early form of vegetarian education: > " Look at the baby cow...and look! it has a mommy! Do you want to touch > it? It's soft, isn't it? We only give cows nice touches. That's why we > would never kill them and eat them. No, way! We like cows... " And she > agrees that the animals are " nice " and it's good to be nice to them. It > makes other parents with their kids uncomfortable when they hear us > (I've had people grab their kids and back slowly away)...but that's > their problem. If they're comfortable with where their food comes > from, I'm sure they'll have no problem explaining it to their kids:) > > Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2001 Report Share Posted September 9, 2001 How can I find one? Sandra, deep in the land of meat and dairy farms > If you are looking for a place to educate your daughter there are > many animal friendly and cruelty free farms to do so at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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