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Thought this article was worth sharing, even though

it's from a Jewish perspective, I think it relates to

us all... to get us thinking about our conversations

with our kids.

Michelle

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A Jewish Vegetarian Child Asks Eighteen Questions

By Stanley M. Sapon, Ph.D.

 

Mama, I'm really happy that we're a vegetarian family,

but I don't understand all the reasons you and Papa

became vegetarians.

 

Well, it has a lot to do with our being Jewish. You

know how often we talk about the commandment of Tsa'ar

Ba'alei Chaim --- the commandment to avoid inflicting

suffering on living creatures. We've taken those

instructions really to heart. That's why we have

committed ourselves to obeying the orders Ha Shem

('The Name' or G-d) gave to Adam and Eve in Bereishit;

" Behold I have given you every herb yielding seed

which is upon the face of the earth, and every tree,

in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed -- to

you it shall be for food. " That's why we have chosen

not to kill living creatures for our food. "

 

Yes, I know. The teacher had us read the part where

we're instructed not to take a bird's babies from her

nest while the mother can see that. Then she told us

how Moses Maimonides explained that the commandments

about animal mothers and their babies are supposed to

make us understand that the pain an animal mother

feels when she loses her baby is exactly the same as

the pain that a human mother would feel.

 

Yes, my dear . . . it's a terrible thing to lose a

baby! Do you remember how unhappy Leah and Simon were

last year when they lost their baby after only a few

days?

 

Yes, and I guess that's what made me think about

animals and their babies, and what happens to those

babies. And I suppose what I learned in biology class

about mammals and things . . . the teacher kind of

talked in circles about a lot of things. Mama . . .

does that have anything to do with S-E-X?

 

Oh, Sweetie, how you make me smile! It sure does . . .

that's why I suppose it made the teacher

uncomfortable. What would you really like to know?

 

Tell me more about how cows give milk.

 

Well, first of all, a cow is a mammal, just like we

are. When a female mammal is pregnant, her breasts

start getting ready to make milk. So when a female

tiger, a hippopotamus, a zebra, a lioness or a cow

gives birth to a baby, her breasts fill with milk . .

.. just like it happened with me when you were born.

 

Oh, yes! And then you nursed me, right? Did you like

that -- nursing me, I mean?

 

Yes I did. It was wonderful. It made me feel close to

you, and I knew I was making you strong and healthy

with my milk.

 

Is the milk from a cow, or a zebra or an elephant

different from your milk?

 

It sure is. Every female mammal makes a special kind

of milk that's just perfect for her baby. So when

cousin Miriam's cat, Cleopatra, had kittens last year,

her breasts made the very special kind of milk that

baby kittens need to have.

 

Does cat's milk taste good?

 

Oh, silly! What a weird idea . . . to think of

drinking a cat's milk! Besides, if we took the cat's

milk, what would the kittens live on?

 

I guess that was a silly question!

 

It certainly was.

 

But if a cat starts to make milk after she has a baby,

how come I didn't see any milk coming out of her last

week when I was playing with Cleo?

 

Of course not! After the babies grow big enough to eat

grown-up food the mother's breasts stop making milk.

Sweetie, believe me, it was wonderful when my breasts

kept filling up with milk when you were tiny, but it

would have been a real strain on me if my breasts just

continued to make milk all my life!

 

Then there are some things that I just don't

understand . . . like . . . I thought cows just

naturally give milk all their lives. All the cows we

see when we drive in the country have those huge

udders, and they always seem to be bulging with milk.

And I just this minute thought of something else . . .

if cows make milk only after they have a baby, and

they make milk to feed their baby . . . how come we

never see any cow babies in the fields alongside their

mothers?

 

Well . . . it . . . it . . . gets a little

complicated.

 

I mean, if the cows are full of milk, and there are no

babies around to drink the milk, what happens to all

that milk, and where are the babies?

 

Well . . . like I said, it's kind of complicated.

Actually, the farmer milks the cows and sends the milk

to the store for us.

 

But if the cows make milk for their babies, and we

drink that milk, what becomes of the babies?

 

Well, they take them away from the mother cow almost

right after they're born.

 

But if we drink the cow's milk, what do the babies

drink?

 

They, uh . . . feed the babies . . . actually we don't

call them " babies " . . . the proper word really is

" calves " . . . on a kind of formula.

 

Is that as perfect for the baby calves as their own

special mothers' milk? I mean, can they grow up to be

big and healthy on this " formula? "

 

Well . . . it's OK (sic) for them.

 

I have one big question that I never thought about

before: You said it was silly to think about drinking

a cat's milk -- I understood that. But why do WE drink

cow's milk that was meant for a calf?

 

Because it's tasty and good for us,(sic) and we enjoy

all the delicious things that come from it, like all

kinds of cheeses, and yogurt, and sour cream, and

ice-cream, and whipped cream.

 

If it's good for us, isn't it good for the baby cows?

It doesn't seem fair, Mama. Shouldn't we let the

babies drink their own mother's milk?

 

Well . . . sure, perhaps, but . . .

 

And besides, doesn't it make the cow feel awful to

have her baby taken away from her? . . . to make her

lose her baby?

 

Well, she's only a cow. It probably doesn't bother her

that much.

 

But the Torah teaches that animals have the same kind

of love for their babies that we do!

 

Yes, dear, but like I said --- it's more complicated

than that.

 

Mama, you're beginning to sound like my teacher in

school. And you never told me just what happens to the

calves after they're taken away from their mothers. We

never see them, so just what does happen to them?

 

A few of the girl cows get to grow up, and the farmer

sees to it that they get pregnant and have calves, and

then they give milk for us to drink.

 

Wait a minute . . . I heard that! What do you mean the

" farmer sees to it that they get pregnant and have

calves? " I remember everything you explained to me

about how a woman gets pregnant -- after she chooses

her husband. Doesn't the cow have to have a husband

too?

 

Well . . . sort of. I mean the farmer brings . . .

actually it is really terribly complicated how a cow

gets pregnant; you know she has to have a bab..er a

calf before she can give milk. We can talk about that

later.

 

OK. But I know that boy cows can never have a baby and

give milk, so what happens to them?

 

Sweetie, it's almost 4 o'clock, and I have to start

making dinner. Do you want to help set the table?

 

Mama . . . you're changing the subject! What happens

to the boy calves?

 

Well . . . since they're no good for milk, after a

while they get sent to the Shochet . . .

 

Mama! Are you telling me that the boy calves are

killed! What for ??

 

Well, to make veal that some people eat.

 

But Mama . . . you said we were vegetarians because we

believed it was wrong to kill animals to eat!

 

Yes, dear, but we don't eat veal.

 

Yes, but other people do, and the only reason there

are baby cows around to kill and eat is because the

farmer makes the cow have a baby so she can give milk

.. . . for us to drink!

 

Oh, Mama. I can't stand this any more. Every time I

see a glass of milk now I will know that a baby calf

was killed for that milk, and that a mother cow had

her baby taken away from her . . . It's all so

terribly cruel.

 

.. . . Mama . . . I don't think I want to drink milk

any more . . . or eat cheese . . . or ice cream . . .

or anything that came from a cow. I want to be a real

vegetarian.

 

(Dr. Sapon is Professor Emeritus of Psycholinguistics,

University of Rochester (NY) and Co-Founder of the

Rochester Area Vegetarian Society.)

 

Jewish Vegetarian/Vegan families:

Post message: JVeg

Subscribe: JVeg-

 

 

 

 

LAUNCH - Your Music Experience

http://launch.

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Guest guest

Thanks for sharing this....it was wonderful....quite thought-provoking...I don't

know where you found this, but I'd love to see this widely circulated.

 

-

Michelle B

Monday, May 27, 2002 8:07 PM

 

Re: Re: McDonalds & talking to our kids

 

Thought this article was worth sharing, even though

it's from a Jewish perspective, I think it relates to

us all... to get us thinking about our conversations

with our kids.

Michelle

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A Jewish Vegetarian Child Asks Eighteen Questions

By Stanley M. Sapon, Ph.D.

 

Mama, I'm really happy that we're a vegetarian family,

but I don't understand all the reasons you and Papa

became vegetarians.

 

Well, it has a lot to do with our being Jewish. You

know how often we talk about the commandment of Tsa'ar

Ba'alei Chaim --- the commandment to avoid inflicting

suffering on living creatures. We've taken those

instructions really to heart. That's why we have

committed ourselves to obeying the orders Ha Shem

('The Name' or G-d) gave to Adam and Eve in Bereishit;

" Behold I have given you every herb yielding seed

which is upon the face of the earth, and every tree,

in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed -- to

you it shall be for food. " That's why we have chosen

not to kill living creatures for our food. "

 

Yes, I know. The teacher had us read the part where

we're instructed not to take a bird's babies from her

nest while the mother can see that. Then she told us

how Moses Maimonides explained that the commandments

about animal mothers and their babies are supposed to

make us understand that the pain an animal mother

feels when she loses her baby is exactly the same as

the pain that a human mother would feel.

 

Yes, my dear . . . it's a terrible thing to lose a

baby! Do you remember how unhappy Leah and Simon were

last year when they lost their baby after only a few

days?

 

Yes, and I guess that's what made me think about

animals and their babies, and what happens to those

babies. And I suppose what I learned in biology class

about mammals and things . . . the teacher kind of

talked in circles about a lot of things. Mama . . .

does that have anything to do with S-E-X?

 

Oh, Sweetie, how you make me smile! It sure does . . .

that's why I suppose it made the teacher

uncomfortable. What would you really like to know?

 

Tell me more about how cows give milk.

 

Well, first of all, a cow is a mammal, just like we

are. When a female mammal is pregnant, her breasts

start getting ready to make milk. So when a female

tiger, a hippopotamus, a zebra, a lioness or a cow

gives birth to a baby, her breasts fill with milk . .

.. just like it happened with me when you were born.

 

Oh, yes! And then you nursed me, right? Did you like

that -- nursing me, I mean?

 

Yes I did. It was wonderful. It made me feel close to

you, and I knew I was making you strong and healthy

with my milk.

 

Is the milk from a cow, or a zebra or an elephant

different from your milk?

 

It sure is. Every female mammal makes a special kind

of milk that's just perfect for her baby. So when

cousin Miriam's cat, Cleopatra, had kittens last year,

her breasts made the very special kind of milk that

baby kittens need to have.

 

Does cat's milk taste good?

 

Oh, silly! What a weird idea . . . to think of

drinking a cat's milk! Besides, if we took the cat's

milk, what would the kittens live on?

 

I guess that was a silly question!

 

It certainly was.

 

But if a cat starts to make milk after she has a baby,

how come I didn't see any milk coming out of her last

week when I was playing with Cleo?

 

Of course not! After the babies grow big enough to eat

grown-up food the mother's breasts stop making milk.

Sweetie, believe me, it was wonderful when my breasts

kept filling up with milk when you were tiny, but it

would have been a real strain on me if my breasts just

continued to make milk all my life!

 

Then there are some things that I just don't

understand . . . like . . . I thought cows just

naturally give milk all their lives. All the cows we

see when we drive in the country have those huge

udders, and they always seem to be bulging with milk.

And I just this minute thought of something else . . .

if cows make milk only after they have a baby, and

they make milk to feed their baby . . . how come we

never see any cow babies in the fields alongside their

mothers?

 

Well . . . it . . . it . . . gets a little

complicated.

 

I mean, if the cows are full of milk, and there are no

babies around to drink the milk, what happens to all

that milk, and where are the babies?

 

Well . . . like I said, it's kind of complicated.

Actually, the farmer milks the cows and sends the milk

to the store for us.

 

But if the cows make milk for their babies, and we

drink that milk, what becomes of the babies?

 

Well, they take them away from the mother cow almost

right after they're born.

 

But if we drink the cow's milk, what do the babies

drink?

 

They, uh . . . feed the babies . . . actually we don't

call them " babies " . . . the proper word really is

" calves " . . . on a kind of formula.

 

Is that as perfect for the baby calves as their own

special mothers' milk? I mean, can they grow up to be

big and healthy on this " formula? "

 

Well . . . it's OK (sic) for them.

 

I have one big question that I never thought about

before: You said it was silly to think about drinking

a cat's milk -- I understood that. But why do WE drink

cow's milk that was meant for a calf?

 

Because it's tasty and good for us,(sic) and we enjoy

all the delicious things that come from it, like all

kinds of cheeses, and yogurt, and sour cream, and

ice-cream, and whipped cream.

 

If it's good for us, isn't it good for the baby cows?

It doesn't seem fair, Mama. Shouldn't we let the

babies drink their own mother's milk?

 

Well . . . sure, perhaps, but . . .

 

And besides, doesn't it make the cow feel awful to

have her baby taken away from her? . . . to make her

lose her baby?

 

Well, she's only a cow. It probably doesn't bother her

that much.

 

But the Torah teaches that animals have the same kind

of love for their babies that we do!

 

Yes, dear, but like I said --- it's more complicated

than that.

 

Mama, you're beginning to sound like my teacher in

school. And you never told me just what happens to the

calves after they're taken away from their mothers. We

never see them, so just what does happen to them?

 

A few of the girl cows get to grow up, and the farmer

sees to it that they get pregnant and have calves, and

then they give milk for us to drink.

 

Wait a minute . . . I heard that! What do you mean the

" farmer sees to it that they get pregnant and have

calves? " I remember everything you explained to me

about how a woman gets pregnant -- after she chooses

her husband. Doesn't the cow have to have a husband

too?

 

Well . . . sort of. I mean the farmer brings . . .

actually it is really terribly complicated how a cow

gets pregnant; you know she has to have a bab..er a

calf before she can give milk. We can talk about that

later.

 

OK. But I know that boy cows can never have a baby and

give milk, so what happens to them?

 

Sweetie, it's almost 4 o'clock, and I have to start

making dinner. Do you want to help set the table?

 

Mama . . . you're changing the subject! What happens

to the boy calves?

 

Well . . . since they're no good for milk, after a

while they get sent to the Shochet . . .

 

Mama! Are you telling me that the boy calves are

killed! What for ??

 

Well, to make veal that some people eat.

 

But Mama . . . you said we were vegetarians because we

believed it was wrong to kill animals to eat!

 

Yes, dear, but we don't eat veal.

 

Yes, but other people do, and the only reason there

are baby cows around to kill and eat is because the

farmer makes the cow have a baby so she can give milk

.. . . for us to drink!

 

Oh, Mama. I can't stand this any more. Every time I

see a glass of milk now I will know that a baby calf

was killed for that milk, and that a mother cow had

her baby taken away from her . . . It's all so

terribly cruel.

 

.. . . Mama . . . I don't think I want to drink milk

any more . . . or eat cheese . . . or ice cream . . .

or anything that came from a cow. I want to be a real

vegetarian.

 

(Dr. Sapon is Professor Emeritus of Psycholinguistics,

University of Rochester (NY) and Co-Founder of the

Rochester Area Vegetarian Society.)

 

Jewish Vegetarian/Vegan families:

Post message: JVeg

Subscribe: JVeg-

 

 

 

 

LAUNCH - Your Music Experience

http://launch.

 

 

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.

 

 

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