way off topic

[Guest guest]

I do have some perspective of what is going in the middle east. I am not

Christian, but so what! We have freedom of religion! I am not democrat nor

socialist. I certainly do not take all information from the mainstream

media. Does the rest of the world need to make sure we don't have missiles?

How about the other countries?

--- Tracy

Sue says: I'm sorry, but, this is way off topic and one of the reasons I

don't want to associate with vegetarian groups in " real " life. My impression

of vegetarians is that they are all way left democrats, if not secret

socialists, very few are Christians and lots are earth-mother-spirit

religionists.

If you would get some real perspective into what is really going on in the

middle east, what those people really think, and not take all your

information from the news media, then you would know why we have to make

sure no one over there has missiles, etc. I don't like to think of our

country being the aggressor, but we can't appear to be sissies, either. The

only thing they relate to is strength.

And how many mothers and children were killed on 9/11, by the way, to say

nothing of sons?

Let's keep this kind of comment to the boards that have this as their topic.

Sue, who usually only lurks.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

" My impression of

vegetarians is that they are all way left democrats, if not secret

socialists, very few are Christians and lots are earth-mother-spirit

religionists. "

 

Well, if that's the case I really need to start associating with more of them.

LOL.

 

 

-

The Rutters

Sunday, October 13, 2002 6:09 PM

way off topic

 

 

" What kind of dangerous idiots are running our country, anyway? We're

probably going to take out a few thousand mothers and children (and their

beloved fathers and sons), and we've got the #1 world terrorist directing it

all. "

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but, this is way off topic and one of the reasons I don't want to

associate with vegetarian groups in " real " life. My impression of

vegetarians is that they are all way left democrats, if not secret

socialists, very few are Christians and lots are earth-mother-spirit

religionists.

If you would get some real perspective into what is really going on in the

middle east, what those people really think, and not take all your

information from the news media, then you would know why we have to make

sure no one over there has missiles, etc. I don't like to think of our

country being the aggressor, but we can't appear to be sissies, either. The

only thing they relate to is strength.

 

And how many mothers and children were killed on 9/11, by the way, to say

nothing of sons?

 

Let's keep this kind of comment to the boards that have this as their topic.

 

Sue, who usually only lurks.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

& gt; Sue wrote:

& gt; I'm sorry, but, this is way off topic and one of

the

& gt; reasons I don't want to

& gt; associate with vegetarian groups in

& #34;real & #34; life. My

& gt; impression of

& gt; vegetarians is that they are all way left

democrats,

& gt; if not secret

& gt; socialists, very few are Christians and lots are

& gt; earth-mother-spirit

& gt; religionists.

 

& gt; Sue, who usually only lurks.

 

Maybe this is a good topic since it brought you out of

'lurkdom'. Without getting into a political debate

and trying to maybe make this more 'on-topic'. I find

your comments about veg*n people very interesting.

Boy do I understand a need to find people who believe

as you do. It can be frustrating not to know many

other veg*ns who have other values in common with you

(Christianity or politics?).

 

I personally know many people who are veg*n simply

because they are Christian or maybe I should say

because of their Christian values (some believe as

Christians they shouldn't kill, some believe as

Christians they should treat their bodies as a

temple...eat healthy foods, and many other Christian

beliefs). One of the thing that never ceases to amaze

me is the diversity in the veg*n community. People

who believe in many different things or see many

different sides of our societies 'big' issues

(abortion, war, death penalty, euthanasia,

xenotransplantion, genetically modified

organisms...just to name a few).

 

As a vegan, I am for compassion and against killing of

any sentient beings...but what I consider killing and

what another person (even another vegan) considers

killing may not be the same thing.

 

But just because we all don't agree on a topic (as in

the recent discussion on vaccinations) doesn't mean

that we shouldn't discuss it (unless, of course, the

moderators cut us off). I personally find it hard not

to see every topic as something related to being a

parent and being vegetarian (what this list is about).

Some of our children may get killed (they may be

asked to go to war or we may see the war affecting

those of us in the US as no other recent war has). In

the case of nuclear war, I don't see how anyone on

Earth would not be affected.

 

So, how do we as veg*ns and parents handle this latest

issue. It looks like we can't speak with a united

voice on this issue...is there some common ground we

can find? If so, can we as a group with some common

views make a difference? I dare say that this might

end up being more important or at least as important

as what we all have for dinner tonight.

 

I personally would like to hear more dialogue

(respectful, of course) on these issues.

 

Just my opinion,

 

Linda

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Wow Sue, I must say, when you stop lurking you really stop lurking.

 

Phil

[Guest guest]

I usually read these and go back to sleep for a few hours before I go and

volunteer at my son's school. Today I just could not sleep until I replied to

this thread.

It really burns me when people come on and be-little a group because of

emotional statements that for many veg*ns are relevant to why they chose the

lifestyle they live. Sorry if I bring up any ill will but I feel I have a right

to comment on this subject seeing that I have an entire family line and close

friends of military personnel. Half of which didn't know what they were in for

until they went to war. Yes all have served time in a war! I really don't

believe religion has any bearing on political issues. But if you really want to

go there, take a look at those in office and tell me what their religion is.

Majority, Chrisitian. I claim no religious status nor politial party. I see

every religion as having some good, that being the purpose they were essentially

formed, the connection with a higher entity and greater spiritual awareness.

This is not just a world issue but indeed a veg*n issue for it involves not only

the lives of the people in the countries over seas but also the lives of many of

fellow Americans.

 

 

 

 

 

Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more

faith.

 

 

[Guest guest]

> " My impression of

> vegetarians is that they are all way left democrats, if not secret

> socialists, very few are Christians and lots are earth-mother-spirit

> religionists. "

>

> Well, if that's the case I really need to start associating with more of

> them. LOL.

 

I'll second that as well. A proud vegan woman walking the red road!

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> " The Rutters " <AZRutterfamily

> way off topic

>

> I'm sorry, but, this is way off topic

Sue, you're right, which is why my subject line was " way off topic. "

You can choose not read it. Just like I've skipped many threads that didn't

interest me.

But really, war is sad not matter how " just " it is. You don't have to agree

with me politically to have compassion for my fear, sadness and frustration

about the very idea of war.

 

> and one of the reasons I don't want to

> associate with vegetarian groups in " real " life. My impression of

> vegetarians is that they are all way left democrats, if not secret

> socialists, very few are Christians and lots are earth-mother-spirit

> religionists.

Something is wrong with that? No I'm not Christian, nor am I

earth-mother-spirit or other pagan religion. But both veg*nism and war

reach beyond religious arguments. I can't speak for others, but certainly I

don't to socialist material. No wonder you don't associate with

veg*ns IRL. If I had so many assumptions (no matter how many fit the mold)

about them, I'd stear clear, too.

>

> If you would get some real perspective into what is really going on in the

> middle east, what those people really think, and not take all your

> information from the news media, then you would know why we have to make

> sure no one over there has missiles, etc.

Please don't insult me by suggesting I don't think for myself or think

outside of what the media presents. If I followed the media, I'd think GWB

was a hero for deciding to take Saddam out. If I followed the media, I'd

believe that Saddam kicked out the UN inspectors (he didn't, we pulled them

out or they quit in frustration of the devastation of US/UN sanctions). If

I followed the media, I'd think that al Qaida and Saddam are linked. Oh

wait.....

 

> And how many mothers and children were killed on 9/11, by the way, to say

> nothing of sons?

This was a separate issue, as 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq, until Bush

tried (unsuccessfully) to link them. I fully expect that war with Iraq will

increase terrorists' hatred of us and increase their attacks on us. That

follows your observation that they believe " might is right. " If they

perceive that we're in the wrong, they're going to unleash all the evil

tricks up their sleeves. Why wouldn't they? We're doing the very thing

that they hate us for most, and it's not going to get better if we proceed a

war.

>The only thing they relate to is strength.

If you think *I* don't know what their mindset is, think again. I know it

all too well which is why i can say with confidence that this is a bad idea

if we want to stop terrorist attacks. They may relate to strength, but they

also respond *heavily* to perceived and real aggression when their power is

at stake.

 

Saddam needs to be brought before the Hague and tried for war crimes. But

starting a war with him is the wrong way to deal with him or any other

terrorist threat. BTW, 12 other nations have cruel, dangerous leaders at

the helm, and we're supporting those governments. We supported Hussein when

he attacked Kurds and violently squashed the Shiites. When those groups

asked us for help, we didn't just ignore their pleas, we flat our REFUSED to

help them. That was Shwarzkopf, who, you might know, thinks a war with Iraq

is a bad idea.

 

And if Christianity is an important determinant for you, you'll find many

religious leaders coming out in opposition to this war.

 

I won't stop you from responding to this, but I won't continue the

discussion.

 

In peace,

Doh

[Guest guest]

& gt; & #34;My impression of

& gt; vegetarians is that they are all way left

democrats,

& gt; if not secret

& gt; socialists, very few are Christians and lots are

& gt; earth-mother-spirit

& gt; religionists. & #34;

 

 

I forgot to mention...my father-in-law if a vegetarian

(he went on the Ornish program after major heart

problems, but he still hunts...just doesn't eat his

kill), Southern Baptist, a vet (he was in the airforce

and fought in Korea), voted for Jesse Helms too many

times to count (NC republican), and....is against the

war in Iraq!

 

Linda

 

 

 

Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More

http://faith.

[Guest guest]

> " My impression of

>vegetarians is that they are all way left democrats, if not secret

>socialists, very few are Christians and lots are earth-mother-spirit

>religionists. "

>

>Well, if that's the case I really need to start associating with more of

>them. LOL.

 

Me, too, Karen! Madeline

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I'm so much of a lurker I'm not even sure this message is going to show up!

But, anyway, I don't like your view of all veg(eteri)ans as far left, socialist,

" earth-mother-spirit religionists " . From where I come, that's considered a

stereotype, and is not appropriate for any group. I may be considered by some

to be " far-left " and the occasional person has called me a " pinko commie " ---I

generally tell them I prefer the term " populist " . :-) And I do happen to be a

Christian, by the way.

I do not agree with the coming war in Iraq, especially without support from the

international community. I get my news from sources both domestic and

international, and the words from our President's own lips, which have yet to

convince me of anything but that we should have elected Ralph Nader or Bill

Bradley. I suggest you stop watching Fox News.

The US has and does that for which we would (and sadly will) attack Iraq. War

always seems like a good idea until people start to die, and then in sets

reality. Life, human or animal, should not be taken unless to preserve the life

of more humans. This is not a case which will do so.

~me, who doesn't understand the concept of taking another life in order to

punish the taking of life

The Rutters <AZRutterfamily wrote: " What kind of dangerous idiots are

running our country, anyway? We're

probably going to take out a few thousand mothers and children (and their

beloved fathers and sons), and we've got the #1 world terrorist directing it

all. "

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but, this is way off topic and one of the reasons I don't want to

associate with vegetarian groups in " real " life. My impression of

vegetarians is that they are all way left democrats, if not secret

socialists, very few are Christians and lots are earth-mother-spirit

religionists.

If you would get some real perspective into what is really going on in the

middle east, what those people really think, and not take all your

information from the news media, then you would know why we have to make

sure no one over there has missiles, etc. I don't like to think of our

country being the aggressor, but we can't appear to be sissies, either. The

only thing they relate to is strength.

 

And how many mothers and children were killed on 9/11, by the way, to say

nothing of sons?

 

Let's keep this kind of comment to the boards that have this as their topic.

 

Sue, who usually only lurks.