Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 I maintain that fantasy is an obstacle to spiritual awakening, because fantasy is " asleep " .....lost in illusion....a desire to remain unconscious. People don't generally fantasize about being awakened, people fantasize to avoid awakening. Reality is the spiritual realm, fantasy involves ego gratification at the physical level of being. If anything, it bonds you more deeply to the unconsciousness of the physical. If fantasy is as real as our everyday reality, then, with regards to commitment to a human lover, than fantasy of others while claiming partnership with a 'soul mate' would indicate a lie at some level....perhaps a lie that the partner is the 'one true love'. Claiming that another is the 'half that makes us whole' indicates no further need for others. Awakening involves overcoming the ego.....fantasy is all about ego. I would go so far as to say that it's a drug. In observing the young woman at work....any time something comes up having to do with one of the men in her life, she can't stop playing scenario after scenario in her head, lost in fantasy and illusion. I think she's addicted to it....compulsive thinking. Along another vein...if thought forms are real, or as real as the actions that we take.....and we release the qualifier of " it doesn't matter what I think, it only matters what I Do " .....and we lump all of what we Think, in with what we actually Do....how does that affect what we claim is the truth about us and our lives? I mean, we can say, look at what I do, that reflects the truth about who I am, but what if all of a sudden the veil drops, and the thoughts are seen as clearly as the actions? How many could then claim the same reflection? The thing is: the Universe sees all of our thoughts and takes them for real, because how else could changing our thoughts change our reality? They Are as concrete as our actions, and it is a truth that we are what we think about all day long. If we consider just the fact that we are what we think about, and eliminate our actions from the equation, then...how does that change who we think we are, or pretend we are, to others? If our facade is that we accept others in a non-critical way, but our thoughts are a running commentary on other's misdeeds...which of those is the Truth? Our actions/facade, or our thoughts that are not bveing acted upon? Which has more power in the Universe? Which one is the strongest force in directing our lives and attracting things into it? Maybe our fantasies expose the lies we are living. Namaste, Renee , " nologo3 " <esposito wrote: > > , > " reneedots " <reneedots@> wrote: > > Exploring the nature of fantasy...it is a desire to remain > unconscious > > and asleep to the reality of the spirit. Fantasy is fueled by the > unmet > > needs of the ego and the inner child. It is the antithesis of > spiritual awakening. > > Any opinons? > > Only since you asked for opinions... a few thoughts. First, I'd have > a question about the following, from earlier in this thread: > > >When a person commits themselves to another, their one true > love, yet, they fantasize about having sex with others, is that > betrayal of their one true love? Wouldn't it be true, that if they Truly > loved their Beloved, that they would not feel the urge to fantasize > about others? > > My question: Is the Beloved (with a capital B) or true love: > 1. the Divine? > 2. a higher aspect of oneself? > 3. a human lover? > Clearly, the answer could be very different depending on which of > these was intended, and I don't want to assume too much. Your > original assertion would, imo, apply to nos. 1 & 2, but not 3. > > > fantasy...it is a desire to remain unconscious and asleep to the > reality of the spirit. > > I think that depends on how well one understands the nature of > fantasy, and ones purposes in employing it. If we want to take a > Buddhist stance, then fantasy is no more unreal than our > everyday reality. Other systems of thought regard our thoughts as > quite real, and that would include fantasy. If nothing else, it > involoves the production of thought forms, and they are real (in > most senses of that word). Fantasy can be done more or less > unconsciously or consciously. > > >Fantasy is fueled by the unmet needs of the ego and the inner > child. > > This sounds like " psychology " to me, and psychology always > tries to explains things in terms that are too limited and limiting. > Why would we want to have our psyches carved up into these > categories? What do they mean? > > >Fantasy is the antithesis of spiritual awakening. > > This also needs some explaining (in other words, I don't see a > direct connection). What does fantasy have to do with spiritual > awakening, or lack of? Yes, fantasy can be dangerous and > perhaps an obstacle to spiritual awakning if it is used to > enhance ones self-importance, or if it includes any confusion of > levels of reality. If one fantasizes about being a god, and has > experiences on the astral-emotional plane to " prove " it, then that > person is deluded (temporarily, we hope -- sometimes it takes > time to understand our own experiences). But I don't know if that > answers your question as you conceived it. > > Sorry I sound so critical -- it comes from years of being a teacher! > I would also try to ask the same kinds of questions when > confronting my own beliefs, opinions, etc... > > John E > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 where is the compassion and unconditional love in relation to these speculations and theories regarding fantasy? as humans we are embodied for a purpose, egos exist, and we are all on our own paths toward the light. beware that the created drama and judgement operate at a possibly more ego-driven level than the aforementioned fantasy in terms of reality and love. -steve f Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 There are some questions that no one wants asked, Steve, and at the top of that list are questions regarding that we might be held responsible in some way by the Universe for what our thoughts are. The mere mention of it pushes buttons. If we consider that thoughts are indeed Things, and a solid reality in themselves, then it becomes true that if we think over and over about striking someone, it creates the same energetic bombardment and assault to that person as if we physically struck them. We can literally cause them harm energetically thru this kind of psychic attack. Is it less damage than if we had struck them physically? We want to hide behind the " well, I only Thought it, I didn't actually Do it " theory, but is it a Truth, or an ego justification to avoid being controlled by spirit? Kundalini-Awakening-Systems- 1 , " deepdance1 " <deepdance1 wrote: > > where is the compassion and unconditional love in relation to these speculations and theories regarding fantasy? as humans we are embodied for a purpose, egos exist, and we are all on our own paths toward the light. beware that the created drama and judgement operate at a possibly more ego-driven level than the aforementioned fantasy in terms of reality and love. > -steve f > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 we are each responsible for our own thoughts/actions. in that sense, the person who thinks of striking another probably suffers more of an attack than the object of his/her thought. please be aware of judgement on any level. -steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Renee, Just wanted to acknowledge your answer and say I agree with much of it. I think people have already argued some of the finer points, so I'll play it safe and not say more, lest someone be accused of sowing dissent or having an ego or...? ;>) JohnE/EnhoJ , " reneedots " <reneedots wrote: > > > I maintain that fantasy is an obstacle to spiritual awakening, > because fantasy is " asleep " .....lost in illusion....a desire to > remain unconscious. People don't generally fantasize about being > awakened, people fantasize to avoid awakening. Reality is the > spiritual realm, fantasy involves ego gratification at the physical > level of being. If anything, it bonds you more deeply to the > unconsciousness of the physical. > > If fantasy is as real as our everyday reality, then, with regards to > commitment to a human lover, than fantasy of others while claiming > partnership with a 'soul mate' would indicate a lie at some > level....perhaps a lie that the partner is the 'one true love'. > Claiming that another is the 'half that makes us whole' indicates no > further need for others. > > Awakening involves overcoming the ego.....fantasy is all about ego. I > would go so far as to say that it's a drug. In observing the young > woman at work....any time something comes up having to do with one of > the men in her life, she can't stop playing scenario after scenario > in her head, lost in fantasy and illusion. I think she's addicted to > it....compulsive thinking. > > Along another vein...if thought forms are real, or as real as the > actions that we take.....and we release the qualifier of " it doesn't > matter what I think, it only matters what I Do " .....and we lump all > of what we Think, in with what we actually Do....how does that affect > what we claim is the truth about us and our lives? I mean, we can > say, look at what I do, that reflects the truth about who I am, but > what if all of a sudden the veil drops, and the thoughts are seen as > clearly as the actions? How many could then claim the same reflection? > > The thing is: the Universe sees all of our thoughts and takes them > for real, because how else could changing our thoughts change our > reality? They Are as concrete as our actions, and it is a truth that > we are what we think about all day long. > > If we consider just the fact that we are what we think about, and > eliminate our actions from the equation, then...how does that change > who we think we are, or pretend we are, to others? > > If our facade is that we accept others in a non-critical way, but our > thoughts are a running commentary on other's misdeeds...which of > those is the Truth? Our actions/facade, or our thoughts that are not > bveing acted upon? Which has more power in the Universe? Which one is > the strongest force in directing our lives and attracting things into > it? > > Maybe our fantasies expose the lies we are living. Namaste, Renee > > > > , " nologo3 " > <esposito@> wrote: > > > > , > > " reneedots " <reneedots@> wrote: > > > Exploring the nature of fantasy...it is a desire to remain > > unconscious > > > and asleep to the reality of the spirit. Fantasy is fueled by the > > unmet > > > needs of the ego and the inner child. It is the antithesis of > > spiritual awakening. > > > Any opinons? > > > > Only since you asked for opinions... a few thoughts. First, I'd > have > > a question about the following, from earlier in this thread: > > > > >When a person commits themselves to another, their one true > > love, yet, they fantasize about having sex with others, is that > > betrayal of their one true love? Wouldn't it be true, that if they > Truly > > loved their Beloved, that they would not feel the urge to fantasize > > about others? > > > > My question: Is the Beloved (with a capital B) or true love: > > 1. the Divine? > > 2. a higher aspect of oneself? > > 3. a human lover? > > Clearly, the answer could be very different depending on which of > > these was intended, and I don't want to assume too much. Your > > original assertion would, imo, apply to nos. 1 & 2, but not 3. > > > > > fantasy...it is a desire to remain unconscious and asleep to the > > reality of the spirit. > > > > I think that depends on how well one understands the nature of > > fantasy, and ones purposes in employing it. If we want to take a > > Buddhist stance, then fantasy is no more unreal than our > > everyday reality. Other systems of thought regard our thoughts as > > quite real, and that would include fantasy. If nothing else, it > > involoves the production of thought forms, and they are real (in > > most senses of that word). Fantasy can be done more or less > > unconsciously or consciously. > > > > >Fantasy is fueled by the unmet needs of the ego and the inner > > child. > > > > This sounds like " psychology " to me, and psychology always > > tries to explains things in terms that are too limited and > limiting. > > Why would we want to have our psyches carved up into these > > categories? What do they mean? > > > > >Fantasy is the antithesis of spiritual awakening. > > > > This also needs some explaining (in other words, I don't see a > > direct connection). What does fantasy have to do with spiritual > > awakening, or lack of? Yes, fantasy can be dangerous and > > perhaps an obstacle to spiritual awakning if it is used to > > enhance ones self-importance, or if it includes any confusion of > > levels of reality. If one fantasizes about being a god, and has > > experiences on the astral-emotional plane to " prove " it, then that > > person is deluded (temporarily, we hope -- sometimes it takes > > time to understand our own experiences). But I don't know if that > > answers your question as you conceived it. > > > > Sorry I sound so critical -- it comes from years of being a > teacher! > > I would also try to ask the same kinds of questions when > > confronting my own beliefs, opinions, etc... > > > > John E > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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