longevity, krushna and list

December 17, 2000

Dear Krushna and List Members

Krushna, this system is turning out to be very exciting!

Over a year ago, I tried to understand the pindayu and amayu [sorry for

spelling mistakes] methods of computing longevity, reading the traditional

texts. Practicing these methods on my chart, I then determined that

Saturn/Jupiter, Mercury/Venus and Mercury/Jupiter dasas were the best periods

for my death, if not the only contenders. This took up quite a lot of time,

and I was far from sure I got the method and analysis right. Worse I don't

remember how I did it, I just wrote the results down with no explanation.

To-day, as I was focusing on the symbology/principles behind Krushna's

numbering method through my own natal/longevity chart [speculations on this

at the very end of this much too long e-mail], it took me 10mn to reach the

same conclusion as I did over a year ago with respect to possible death

periods. But, it seems to me that the kali yuga fools still have to exercise

some judgment, unfortunately, even with this method. It does make a

difference whether I die at 69, 74 or 83! At least for planning purposes.

Krushna, please, could you comment on the following while list members are

working on the exercise you gave us. I can't do the exercise because I can't

open the Files and friends that did it for me were unable to print the

lessons for some reason. Besides, if I asked the exercise questions, it's

because i don't know the answers.

I have a Leo asc like Ron but thought it more appropriate to use my own chart

on this subject. Below, NATC means natal chart starting from asc. and LONGC

means the longevity chart derived from the natal chart.

NATC HSE B = LONGC HSE E = LEO

NATC HSE C = LONGC HSE D = SAG

NATC HSE A = LONGC HSE B = PISCES . CONTAINS VENUS

NATC HSE D = -------------------------TAURUS

NATC HSE E = -------------------------CAPRICORN. CONTAINS MOON AND KETU

------------------------LONGC HSE A = LIBRA

------------------------LONGC HSE C = CANCER. CONTAINS JUPITER AND RAHU

Unaccounted for: sun and mercury in aries and saturn and mars in gemini.

Would it be correct to say that:

Any one of Jupiter, Venus, Moon, Sun and possibly RAHU/KETU and maybe even

Mercury has the potential to be a killer sub lord?

[[[[Questions 1 to 5 are similar to, though more detailed than, the questions

in the exercise, so you may not want to answer those for now, even though

they are less simple. I keep them here not to forget. BUT please help with

questions that follow 1through5.

Can we determine -and on what basis- which are the most likely, primary and

secondary killer sub? I'll try to isolate factors:

1. Jupiter sub has first claim to kill because he is lord of HSES B and D of

LONGC [which are also HSES A and C of NATC], located in HSE C of LONGC,

aspecting HSE B of LONGC, aspecting the lord of HSE A of LONGC, and in mutual

aspect with lord of HSE C of LONGC. It may be, depending on numbers, that he

also acts for Sun, lord of HSE E of LONGC [which is also HSE B of NATC].

2. Venus sub has second claim to kill because he is lord of HSE A of LONGC,

located in HSE B of LONGC [which is also HSE A of NATC] and aspected by nasty

Jupiter, as described above.

3. The subs of Sun and Moon also have a claim to kill as lords of HSE E of

LONGC and of HSE C of LONGC, respectively, with the Moon being worse due to

the Jupiter aspect.

4. Moon [in RKA almost exactly] transfers his claim to NODES, Jupiter to

NODES [in RKA with app.15deg orb] and Sun to Mercury [conjunction with 18deg

orb]???

5. Should we say that [true/false or yes/no]

a] Jupiter and Venus are more likely killer sub lords than the other planets

identified above by reason of their greater contacts with hses A, B, C, D and

E of the LONGC, OR

b] This determination of killer n. 1 from among the qualifying sub lords

depends exclusively on the planet's number of points [in the worksheet]. The

greater the number of points, the stronger the planet, the more likely to

kill, OR

c] This determination of killer n. 1 is a matter of judgment, involving both

5a] and 5b] considerations, OR

d] There is little point in seeking to identify the strongest killer sub

lord, since any one of the contending subs can bring death, however weak, if

the transits are strong [whatever that means] that activate the relevant

planets/houses.]]]]

START AGAIN: I assume one could look at transits and eclipses for the time

period each of the potential killer subs is in effect during each likely MD.

But this would be really too much work and essentially take away any real

value from the system! Can we actually select THE real killer sub and then

THE real MD for that sub, before checking the transits?

As to the transits, what specific transits are we looking for that are

absolutely necessary to bring death during the sub of a qualified killer lord?

Should the sub lord be activated? Should particular houses/their lords be

activated, in particular among the LONGC HSES/LORDS? And how " activated " ? A

detailed answer on that would be wonderful.

[[[[You may want to wait before answering these questions, because of the

exercise.

Subsidiary Questions-KILLER SUBS:

Assume 2 planets XXX and YYY and the Primary difference between them is that:

1]-- XXX is lord of, or in, HSE E, D or B of LONGC while YYY is lord of, or

in, HSE A or C of LONGC, would XXX be the most likely killer sub of the 2

[since in the 1st case only there is a house overlap between longevity and

natal hses]?

2]-- XXX is a natural mlefic and YYY a natural benefic, would XXX be the most

likely killer sub of the 2?

3]-- XXX is debilitated and YYY exalted, would XXX be the most likely killer

of the 2?

4]-- XXX is in the nakshatra of a contending killer sub, while YYY is in the

nakshatra of a neutral planet, would XXX be the most likely killer of the 2?

5] XXX receives aspects from neutral planets that are natural malefics while

YYY does not, would XXX be the most likely killer of the 2?

6] XXX is in a 6/8 or 2/12 relationship with the MD lord, while YYY is in a

4/10, or 3/11 relationship with the MD lord, would XXX be the most likely

killer?

Where would a 1/1 or 7/1 relationship fall? better than 6/8 or 2/12 but less

good than 4/10 or 3/11?]]]]

START AGAIN

Question: MD Selection

Assuming one has selected the Killer sub, how does one go about selecting the

appropriate MD? Using my dasas as an example, and assuming further that

Jupiter sub is killer n* 1 in my chart: Death could occur during Saturn MD

Jupiter AD [age 68 to 70] or Mercury MD Jupiter AD [age 82 to 84]. How does

one go about selecting one out of the two? I tried to think of reasons, but

the problem is that they all leave too much latitude for judgment.

a] By determining the longevity range, using the method of the 3 pairs?

b] By comparing the nature of the contending MDs, whether natural or

functional benefics or malefics, [here both are marakas, saturn a functional

and natural malefic to a greater degree than mercury]?

c] By looking at the position of the AD lord starting from the houses

occupied by the contending MDs [6/8, 2/12 etc; [here jup in 2nd from sat and

4th from merc, so Mercury might be a stronger factor]?

d] By evaluating the general tenor of the natal chart, esp in connection with

a] above [ this really lends itself to mistakes; in my chart, unless I am

wrong, the 2 main killers, esp. Venus, are also the planets that promote

longevity, while Moon, a secondary killer, would tend to reduce it]?

e] By considering the link between the nakshatra/rasi dispositors of the MD

lord with the killer planets [here, in my chart, Mercury is in the nakshatra

of Venus, Saturn of Mars. No direct links through rasi dispositors. So

Mercury is worse than Saturn]?

f] Any other, and/or all of the above -- or a nice SIMPLE rule?

Transits at death in my natal chart.

Looking at transits in my chart, and not knowing Krushna's transit rules, I

focused on Uranus, Neptune and Pluto plus eclipses for preliminary

guidelines. Based on these I concluded that the very beginning of

Mercury/Jupiter/Jupiter around may 24 2026 and the transition between

Mercury/Venus and Mercury/Sun in early 2021 were THE two most likely death

periods, followed by Mercury/Rahu/Venus in november 2025. Maybe 2021 for

sickness and 2026 for death.

Of course, I picked the last possible period! But, on 24 may 2026, saturn was

in HSE B of LONGC; Jupiter, + venus, + mercury, + moon were in HSE C of

LONGC; and Ketu, natally conjunct Moon, was in HSE E/B [lagna] on the Moon

degree INCONJUNCT MOON.

As for eclipses, this is for Ron if he is reading [!]- there was a total MOON

ECLIPSE ON 3 MARS 2026 IN THE LAGNA, EXACTLY ON THE ASC DEGREE, and on 17 feb

2026, there was a total sun eclipse [trine natal saturn with a 6deg orb] in

the 6th hse! On that date, transiting Uranus was in exact trine to natal moon

[reproducing the natal aspect], transiting Pluto was conjoining natal moon

within 4deg [past moon, and echoing the natal moon/pluto opposition], and

transiting Neptune was sextile natal moon with a 2deg orb [past moon, and

echoing the natal moon/neptune trine]. This is so perfect...if it's not

wrong...

Krushna, please tell me what you think, and be as critical as need be. My

goal is to be able to look at things for/ to help people without totally

exhausting myself, as I kind of did to-day, so some reasonably hard and fast

rules to guide myself would help a lot.

Finally, ending where I started this morning on house symbolism and

longevity:

Please tell me if these observations are on the right track, if they are

useful within the logic of the system:

HSE D of LONGC is in the 8th hse from HSE D of NATC

HSE C of ------------------------8th----------------------C ------------

HSE A of -------------------------8th----------------------A-------------

HSE E of -------------------------8th-----------------------E-------------

HSE B of ------------------------8th-----------------------B------------

HSE C of---------------opposes ------------------HSE E-----------=Natal 6/12

axis

HSE E of---------------conjoins-------------------HSE B-----------=Natal asc

HSE D of---------------conjoins-------------------HSE C-----------=Natal 5TH

HSE

HSE B of----------------conjoins------------------HSE A-----------=Natal 8th

hse

HSE A

of-=Natal

3rd hse

The 8th house is symbolic of, where we find, death, going forward after birth.

It also represents the origin/conception of a matter, going backards from

birth.

So, logically, in any analysis of the longevity of any matter, the whole

structure of interrelationship among houses should be based on an 8th hse

concept. As is the case above.

To find the inception of a matter [i.e. before it's born] we go backwards in

time [i.e. counter-clockwise in the rasi chart] from the asc [or birth]

applicable to the matter in question [here actual birth of the person] till

we hit the 8th hse from that asc. So that a person born with leo asc [natal

B] has his inception/conception/origin in Capricorn, natal E.

The death of the same matter once born [here the person] occurs in the 8th

hse from its place of birth; it happens in the future, after birth, so we go

clockwise from natal B, the asc., to the 8th hse, natal A, or Pisces in the

example.

BUT, the seed of death lies in birth, death is the birth of another state of

being, AND for death of the matter to occur and life to cease, life and death

must meet.

Consistent with these principles, we now treat the house of natal death of

the matter under consideration as the " birth " event/hse in the longevity

chart. Pisces, the natal 8th hse, becomes hse B of the longevity chart. We

then look for the cause/conception/origin of death. We must therefore go

backwards in time, counter-clockwise, to the 8th hse from Pisces. This

brings us to Leo, the origin of death. So the origin of death- hse E of the

longevity chart-lies in the birth of the matter- hse B of the birth chart,

and life and death meet.

In addition, there is a lovely image in the opposition that the 12th hse from

the asc [end of life-hse C of the longevity chart] makes to the hse of natal

conception [hse E of the natal chart], which it should be noticed is not

otherwise active at the time of our death!

But as far as I can tell hse D of the natal chart is completely inactive in

the longevity chart.

Aside from the 1st and 8th hses from natal asc., the active houses at the

time of death are the 3rd, the 5th, and the 12th from the natal asc, under

this scheme.

It's unclear to me why the 9th hse is not taken into consideration if the 5th

is [both being trines to the asc] as is done in various other techniques.

It is strange that the two longevity houses are involved, while the two

maraka hses are ignored, so that conceivably one could end up dying in an

MD/AD period with no maraka planets whatsoever being involved as dasa lords

or by position in maraka houses.

I assume that in the natal chart of a matter, commencing with the asc house

for the question as B, and going forward, Hse C always falls in the 5th from

it, hse E in the 6th from it, hse A in the 8th from it and hse D in the 10th

from it. And that the same holds true for the longevity chart of the matter,

with longevity chart asc = A of natal chart always.

Please tell me where I missed the boat. I don't seem to have used the same

reasoning as Margarita...Also, if you could, could you confirm that the exact

same reasoning and houses are used in all natal/longevity cases, once one has

properly identified the natal birth asc. for the matter under consideration.

If this is all correct, I'll try to understand [when I am less tired] the 8TH

hse in its various permutations, inheritance as A, shrewdness as E, research

as C, success as D..unless you're willing to say a bit more on the subject

than the rather cryptic recent e-mail you sent!

Thanks and regards

Christine

December 18, 2000

Christine please, what is " amayu " and " pindayu " .

I'm going to try to dissect your mail ........

Best regards

Margarita

-

<XINEFOURNI

Monday, December 18, 2000 8:09 AM

Re: longevity, krushna and list

> Dear Krushna and List Members

>

> Krushna, this system is turning out to be very exciting!

>

> Over a year ago, I tried to understand the pindayu and amayu [sorry for

> spelling mistakes] methods of computing longevity, reading the traditional

> texts. Practicing these methods on my chart, I then determined that

> Saturn/Jupiter, Mercury/Venus and Mercury/Jupiter dasas were the best

periods

> for my death, if not the only contenders. This took up quite a lot of

time,

> and I was far from sure I got the method and analysis right. Worse I don't

> remember how I did it, I just wrote the results down with no explanation.

>

> To-day, as I was focusing on the symbology/principles behind Krushna's

> numbering method through my own natal/longevity chart [speculations on

this

> at the very end of this much too long e-mail], it took me 10mn to reach

the

> same conclusion as I did over a year ago with respect to possible death

> periods. But, it seems to me that the kali yuga fools still have to

exercise

> some judgment, unfortunately, even with this method. It does make a

> difference whether I die at 69, 74 or 83! At least for planning purposes.

>

> Krushna, please, could you comment on the following while list members are

> working on the exercise you gave us. I can't do the exercise because I

can't

> open the Files and friends that did it for me were unable to print the

> lessons for some reason. Besides, if I asked the exercise questions, it's

> because i don't know the answers.

>

> I have a Leo asc like Ron but thought it more appropriate to use my own

chart

> on this subject. Below, NATC means natal chart starting from asc. and

LONGC

> means the longevity chart derived from the natal chart.

> NATC HSE B = LONGC HSE E = LEO

> NATC HSE C = LONGC HSE D = SAG

> NATC HSE A = LONGC HSE B = PISCES . CONTAINS VENUS

> NATC HSE D = -------------------------TAURUS

> NATC HSE E = -------------------------CAPRICORN. CONTAINS MOON AND KETU

> ------------------------LONGC HSE A = LIBRA

> ------------------------LONGC HSE C = CANCER. CONTAINS JUPITER AND RAHU

> Unaccounted for: sun and mercury in aries and saturn and mars in gemini.

>

> Would it be correct to say that:

> Any one of Jupiter, Venus, Moon, Sun and possibly RAHU/KETU and maybe even

> Mercury has the potential to be a killer sub lord?

>

> [[[[Questions 1 to 5 are similar to, though more detailed than, the

questions

> in the exercise, so you may not want to answer those for now, even though

> they are less simple. I keep them here not to forget. BUT please help with

> questions that follow 1through5.

> Can we determine -and on what basis- which are the most likely, primary

and

> secondary killer sub? I'll try to isolate factors:

> 1. Jupiter sub has first claim to kill because he is lord of HSES B and D

of

> LONGC [which are also HSES A and C of NATC], located in HSE C of LONGC,

> aspecting HSE B of LONGC, aspecting the lord of HSE A of LONGC, and in

mutual

> aspect with lord of HSE C of LONGC. It may be, depending on numbers, that

he

> also acts for Sun, lord of HSE E of LONGC [which is also HSE B of NATC].

> 2. Venus sub has second claim to kill because he is lord of HSE A of

LONGC,

> located in HSE B of LONGC [which is also HSE A of NATC] and aspected by

nasty

> Jupiter, as described above.

> 3. The subs of Sun and Moon also have a claim to kill as lords of HSE E of

> LONGC and of HSE C of LONGC, respectively, with the Moon being worse due

to

> the Jupiter aspect.

> 4. Moon [in RKA almost exactly] transfers his claim to NODES, Jupiter to

> NODES [in RKA with app.15deg orb] and Sun to Mercury [conjunction with

18deg

> orb]???

> 5. Should we say that [true/false or yes/no]

> a] Jupiter and Venus are more likely killer sub lords than the other

planets

> identified above by reason of their greater contacts with hses A, B, C, D

and

> E of the LONGC, OR

> b] This determination of killer n. 1 from among the qualifying sub lords

> depends exclusively on the planet's number of points [in the worksheet].

The

> greater the number of points, the stronger the planet, the more likely to

> kill, OR

> c] This determination of killer n. 1 is a matter of judgment, involving

both

> 5a] and 5b] considerations, OR

> d] There is little point in seeking to identify the strongest killer sub

> lord, since any one of the contending subs can bring death, however weak,

if

> the transits are strong [whatever that means] that activate the relevant

> planets/houses.]]]]

>

> START AGAIN: I assume one could look at transits and eclipses for the time

> period each of the potential killer subs is in effect during each likely

MD.

> But this would be really too much work and essentially take away any real

> value from the system! Can we actually select THE real killer sub and then

> THE real MD for that sub, before checking the transits?

>

> As to the transits, what specific transits are we looking for that are

> absolutely necessary to bring death during the sub of a qualified killer

lord?

> Should the sub lord be activated? Should particular houses/their lords be

> activated, in particular among the LONGC HSES/LORDS? And how " activated " ?

A

> detailed answer on that would be wonderful.

>

> [[[[You may want to wait before answering these questions, because of the

> exercise.

> Subsidiary Questions-KILLER SUBS:

> Assume 2 planets XXX and YYY and the Primary difference between them is

that:

> 1]-- XXX is lord of, or in, HSE E, D or B of LONGC while YYY is lord of,

or

> in, HSE A or C of LONGC, would XXX be the most likely killer sub of the 2

> [since in the 1st case only there is a house overlap between longevity and

> natal hses]?

> 2]-- XXX is a natural mlefic and YYY a natural benefic, would XXX be the

most

> likely killer sub of the 2?

> 3]-- XXX is debilitated and YYY exalted, would XXX be the most likely

killer

> of the 2?

> 4]-- XXX is in the nakshatra of a contending killer sub, while YYY is in

the

> nakshatra of a neutral planet, would XXX be the most likely killer of the

2?

> 5] XXX receives aspects from neutral planets that are natural malefics

while

> YYY does not, would XXX be the most likely killer of the 2?

> 6] XXX is in a 6/8 or 2/12 relationship with the MD lord, while YYY is in

a

> 4/10, or 3/11 relationship with the MD lord, would XXX be the most likely

> killer?

> Where would a 1/1 or 7/1 relationship fall? better than 6/8 or 2/12 but

less

> good than 4/10 or 3/11?]]]]

>

> START AGAIN

> Question: MD Selection

> Assuming one has selected the Killer sub, how does one go about selecting

the

> appropriate MD? Using my dasas as an example, and assuming further that

> Jupiter sub is killer n* 1 in my chart: Death could occur during Saturn MD

> Jupiter AD [age 68 to 70] or Mercury MD Jupiter AD [age 82 to 84]. How

does

> one go about selecting one out of the two? I tried to think of reasons,

but

> the problem is that they all leave too much latitude for judgment.

> a] By determining the longevity range, using the method of the 3 pairs?

> b] By comparing the nature of the contending MDs, whether natural or

> functional benefics or malefics, [here both are marakas, saturn a

functional

> and natural malefic to a greater degree than mercury]?

> c] By looking at the position of the AD lord starting from the houses

> occupied by the contending MDs [6/8, 2/12 etc; [here jup in 2nd from sat

and

> 4th from merc, so Mercury might be a stronger factor]?

> d] By evaluating the general tenor of the natal chart, esp in connection

with

> a] above [ this really lends itself to mistakes; in my chart, unless I am

> wrong, the 2 main killers, esp. Venus, are also the planets that promote

> longevity, while Moon, a secondary killer, would tend to reduce it]?

> e] By considering the link between the nakshatra/rasi dispositors of the

MD

> lord with the killer planets [here, in my chart, Mercury is in the

nakshatra

> of Venus, Saturn of Mars. No direct links through rasi dispositors. So

> Mercury is worse than Saturn]?

> f] Any other, and/or all of the above -- or a nice SIMPLE rule?

>

> Transits at death in my natal chart.

> Looking at transits in my chart, and not knowing Krushna's transit rules,

I

> focused on Uranus, Neptune and Pluto plus eclipses for preliminary

> guidelines. Based on these I concluded that the very beginning of

> Mercury/Jupiter/Jupiter around may 24 2026 and the transition between

> Mercury/Venus and Mercury/Sun in early 2021 were THE two most likely death

> periods, followed by Mercury/Rahu/Venus in november 2025. Maybe 2021 for

> sickness and 2026 for death.

>

> Of course, I picked the last possible period! But, on 24 may 2026, saturn

was

> in HSE B of LONGC; Jupiter, + venus, + mercury, + moon were in HSE C of

> LONGC; and Ketu, natally conjunct Moon, was in HSE E/B [lagna] on the Moon

> degree INCONJUNCT MOON.

> As for eclipses, this is for Ron if he is reading [!]- there was a total

MOON

> ECLIPSE ON 3 MARS 2026 IN THE LAGNA, EXACTLY ON THE ASC DEGREE, and on 17

feb

> 2026, there was a total sun eclipse [trine natal saturn with a 6deg orb]

in

> the 6th hse! On that date, transiting Uranus was in exact trine to natal

moon

> [reproducing the natal aspect], transiting Pluto was conjoining natal moon

> within 4deg [past moon, and echoing the natal moon/pluto opposition], and

> transiting Neptune was sextile natal moon with a 2deg orb [past moon, and

> echoing the natal moon/neptune trine]. This is so perfect...if it's not

> wrong...

>

> Krushna, please tell me what you think, and be as critical as need be. My

> goal is to be able to look at things for/ to help people without totally

> exhausting myself, as I kind of did to-day, so some reasonably hard and

fast

> rules to guide myself would help a lot.

>

> Finally, ending where I started this morning on house symbolism and

> longevity:

> Please tell me if these observations are on the right track, if they are

> useful within the logic of the system:

> HSE D of LONGC is in the 8th hse from HSE D of NATC

> HSE C of ------------------------8th----------------------C ------------

> HSE A of -------------------------8th----------------------A-------------

> HSE E of -------------------------8th-----------------------E-------------

> HSE B of ------------------------8th-----------------------B------------

> HSE C of---------------opposes ------------------HSE E-----------=Natal

6/12

> axis

> HSE E of---------------conjoins-------------------HSE B-----------=Natal

asc

> HSE D of---------------conjoins-------------------HSE C-----------=Natal

5TH

> HSE

> HSE B of----------------conjoins------------------HSE A-----------=Natal

8th

> hse

> HSE A

>

of-=Natal

> 3rd hse

>

> The 8th house is symbolic of, where we find, death, going forward after

birth.

> It also represents the origin/conception of a matter, going backards from

> birth.

> So, logically, in any analysis of the longevity of any matter, the whole

> structure of interrelationship among houses should be based on an 8th hse

> concept. As is the case above.

>

> To find the inception of a matter [i.e. before it's born] we go backwards

in

> time [i.e. counter-clockwise in the rasi chart] from the asc [or birth]

> applicable to the matter in question [here actual birth of the person]

till

> we hit the 8th hse from that asc. So that a person born with leo asc

[natal

> B] has his inception/conception/origin in Capricorn, natal E.

>

> The death of the same matter once born [here the person] occurs in the 8th

> hse from its place of birth; it happens in the future, after birth, so we

go

> clockwise from natal B, the asc., to the 8th hse, natal A, or Pisces in

the

> example.

>

> BUT, the seed of death lies in birth, death is the birth of another state

of

> being, AND for death of the matter to occur and life to cease, life and

death

> must meet.

> Consistent with these principles, we now treat the house of natal death of

> the matter under consideration as the " birth " event/hse in the longevity

> chart. Pisces, the natal 8th hse, becomes hse B of the longevity chart. We

> then look for the cause/conception/origin of death. We must therefore go

> backwards in time, counter-clockwise, to the 8th hse from Pisces. This

> brings us to Leo, the origin of death. So the origin of death- hse E of

the

> longevity chart-lies in the birth of the matter- hse B of the birth chart,

> and life and death meet.

>

> In addition, there is a lovely image in the opposition that the 12th hse

from

> the asc [end of life-hse C of the longevity chart] makes to the hse of

natal

> conception [hse E of the natal chart], which it should be noticed is not

> otherwise active at the time of our death!

> But as far as I can tell hse D of the natal chart is completely inactive

in

> the longevity chart.

>

> Aside from the 1st and 8th hses from natal asc., the active houses at the

> time of death are the 3rd, the 5th, and the 12th from the natal asc, under

> this scheme.

> It's unclear to me why the 9th hse is not taken into consideration if the

5th

> is [both being trines to the asc] as is done in various other techniques.

> It is strange that the two longevity houses are involved, while the two

> maraka hses are ignored, so that conceivably one could end up dying in an

> MD/AD period with no maraka planets whatsoever being involved as dasa

lords

> or by position in maraka houses.

>

> I assume that in the natal chart of a matter, commencing with the asc

house

> for the question as B, and going forward, Hse C always falls in the 5th

from

> it, hse E in the 6th from it, hse A in the 8th from it and hse D in the

10th

> from it. And that the same holds true for the longevity chart of the

matter,

> with longevity chart asc = A of natal chart always.

>

> Please tell me where I missed the boat. I don't seem to have used the same

> reasoning as Margarita...Also, if you could, could you confirm that the

exact

> same reasoning and houses are used in all natal/longevity cases, once one

has

> properly identified the natal birth asc. for the matter under

consideration.

>

> If this is all correct, I'll try to understand [when I am less tired] the

8TH

> hse in its various permutations, inheritance as A, shrewdness as E,

research

> as C, success as D..unless you're willing to say a bit more on the subject

> than the rather cryptic recent e-mail you sent!

>

> Thanks and regards

> Christine

>

December 18, 2000

Dear Chritine,

I am trying to follow your short words.

But one thing I can tell you very confidently that atleast Jupiter can not

give any killing effect in it's sub period for you.

krushna

>XINEFOURNI

>

>Re: longevity, krushna and list

>Mon, 18 Dec 2000 02:09:46 EST

>

>Dear Krushna and List Members

>

>Krushna, this system is turning out to be very exciting!

>

>Over a year ago, I tried to understand the pindayu and amayu [sorry for

>spelling mistakes] methods of computing longevity, reading the traditional

>texts. Practicing these methods on my chart, I then determined that

>Saturn/Jupiter, Mercury/Venus and Mercury/Jupiter dasas were the best

>periods

>for my death, if not the only contenders. This took up quite a lot of time,

>and I was far from sure I got the method and analysis right. Worse I don't

>remember how I did it, I just wrote the results down with no explanation.

>

>To-day, as I was focusing on the symbology/principles behind Krushna's

>numbering method through my own natal/longevity chart [speculations on this

>at the very end of this much too long e-mail], it took me 10mn to reach the

>same conclusion as I did over a year ago with respect to possible death

>periods. But, it seems to me that the kali yuga fools still have to

>exercise

>some judgment, unfortunately, even with this method. It does make a

>difference whether I die at 69, 74 or 83! At least for planning purposes.

>

>Krushna, please, could you comment on the following while list members are

>working on the exercise you gave us. I can't do the exercise because I

>can't

>open the Files and friends that did it for me were unable to print the

>lessons for some reason. Besides, if I asked the exercise questions, it's

>because i don't know the answers.

>

>I have a Leo asc like Ron but thought it more appropriate to use my own

>chart

>on this subject. Below, NATC means natal chart starting from asc. and LONGC

>means the longevity chart derived from the natal chart.

>NATC HSE B = LONGC HSE E = LEO

>NATC HSE C = LONGC HSE D = SAG

>NATC HSE A = LONGC HSE B = PISCES . CONTAINS VENUS

>NATC HSE D = -------------------------TAURUS

>NATC HSE E = -------------------------CAPRICORN. CONTAINS MOON AND KETU

>------------------------LONGC HSE A = LIBRA

>------------------------LONGC HSE C = CANCER. CONTAINS JUPITER AND RAHU

>Unaccounted for: sun and mercury in aries and saturn and mars in gemini.

>

>Would it be correct to say that:

>Any one of Jupiter, Venus, Moon, Sun and possibly RAHU/KETU and maybe even

>Mercury has the potential to be a killer sub lord?

>

>[[[[Questions 1 to 5 are similar to, though more detailed than, the

>questions

>in the exercise, so you may not want to answer those for now, even though

>they are less simple. I keep them here not to forget. BUT please help with

>questions that follow 1through5.

>Can we determine -and on what basis- which are the most likely, primary and

>secondary killer sub? I'll try to isolate factors:

>1. Jupiter sub has first claim to kill because he is lord of HSES B and D

>of

>LONGC [which are also HSES A and C of NATC], located in HSE C of LONGC,

>aspecting HSE B of LONGC, aspecting the lord of HSE A of LONGC, and in

>mutual

>aspect with lord of HSE C of LONGC. It may be, depending on numbers, that

>he

>also acts for Sun, lord of HSE E of LONGC [which is also HSE B of NATC].

>2. Venus sub has second claim to kill because he is lord of HSE A of LONGC,

>located in HSE B of LONGC [which is also HSE A of NATC] and aspected by

>nasty

>Jupiter, as described above.

>3. The subs of Sun and Moon also have a claim to kill as lords of HSE E of

>LONGC and of HSE C of LONGC, respectively, with the Moon being worse due to

>the Jupiter aspect.

>4. Moon [in RKA almost exactly] transfers his claim to NODES, Jupiter to

>NODES [in RKA with app.15deg orb] and Sun to Mercury [conjunction with

>18deg

>orb]???

>5. Should we say that [true/false or yes/no]

>a] Jupiter and Venus are more likely killer sub lords than the other

>planets

>identified above by reason of their greater contacts with hses A, B, C, D

>and

>E of the LONGC, OR

>b] This determination of killer n. 1 from among the qualifying sub lords

>depends exclusively on the planet's number of points [in the worksheet].

>The

>greater the number of points, the stronger the planet, the more likely to

>kill, OR

>c] This determination of killer n. 1 is a matter of judgment, involving

>both

>5a] and 5b] considerations, OR

>d] There is little point in seeking to identify the strongest killer sub

>lord, since any one of the contending subs can bring death, however weak,

>if

>the transits are strong [whatever that means] that activate the relevant

>planets/houses.]]]]

>

>START AGAIN: I assume one could look at transits and eclipses for the time

>period each of the potential killer subs is in effect during each likely

>MD.

>But this would be really too much work and essentially take away any real

>value from the system! Can we actually select THE real killer sub and then

>THE real MD for that sub, before checking the transits?

>

>As to the transits, what specific transits are we looking for that are

>absolutely necessary to bring death during the sub of a qualified killer

>lord?

>Should the sub lord be activated? Should particular houses/their lords be

>activated, in particular among the LONGC HSES/LORDS? And how " activated " ? A

>detailed answer on that would be wonderful.

>

>[[[[You may want to wait before answering these questions, because of the

>exercise.

>Subsidiary Questions-KILLER SUBS:

>Assume 2 planets XXX and YYY and the Primary difference between them is

>that:

>1]-- XXX is lord of, or in, HSE E, D or B of LONGC while YYY is lord of, or

>in, HSE A or C of LONGC, would XXX be the most likely killer sub of the 2

>[since in the 1st case only there is a house overlap between longevity and

>natal hses]?

>2]-- XXX is a natural mlefic and YYY a natural benefic, would XXX be the

>most

>likely killer sub of the 2?

>3]-- XXX is debilitated and YYY exalted, would XXX be the most likely

>killer

>of the 2?

>4]-- XXX is in the nakshatra of a contending killer sub, while YYY is in

>the

>nakshatra of a neutral planet, would XXX be the most likely killer of the

>2?

>5] XXX receives aspects from neutral planets that are natural malefics

>while

>YYY does not, would XXX be the most likely killer of the 2?

>6] XXX is in a 6/8 or 2/12 relationship with the MD lord, while YYY is in a

>4/10, or 3/11 relationship with the MD lord, would XXX be the most likely

>killer?

>Where would a 1/1 or 7/1 relationship fall? better than 6/8 or 2/12 but

>less

>good than 4/10 or 3/11?]]]]

>

>START AGAIN

>Question: MD Selection

>Assuming one has selected the Killer sub, how does one go about selecting

>the

>appropriate MD? Using my dasas as an example, and assuming further that

>Jupiter sub is killer n* 1 in my chart: Death could occur during Saturn MD

>Jupiter AD [age 68 to 70] or Mercury MD Jupiter AD [age 82 to 84]. How does

>one go about selecting one out of the two? I tried to think of reasons, but

>the problem is that they all leave too much latitude for judgment.

>a] By determining the longevity range, using the method of the 3 pairs?

>b] By comparing the nature of the contending MDs, whether natural or

>functional benefics or malefics, [here both are marakas, saturn a

>functional

>and natural malefic to a greater degree than mercury]?

>c] By looking at the position of the AD lord starting from the houses

>occupied by the contending MDs [6/8, 2/12 etc; [here jup in 2nd from sat

>and

>4th from merc, so Mercury might be a stronger factor]?

>d] By evaluating the general tenor of the natal chart, esp in connection

>with

>a] above [ this really lends itself to mistakes; in my chart, unless I am

>wrong, the 2 main killers, esp. Venus, are also the planets that promote

>longevity, while Moon, a secondary killer, would tend to reduce it]?

>e] By considering the link between the nakshatra/rasi dispositors of the MD

>lord with the killer planets [here, in my chart, Mercury is in the

>nakshatra

>of Venus, Saturn of Mars. No direct links through rasi dispositors. So

>Mercury is worse than Saturn]?

>f] Any other, and/or all of the above -- or a nice SIMPLE rule?

>

>Transits at death in my natal chart.

>Looking at transits in my chart, and not knowing Krushna's transit rules, I

>focused on Uranus, Neptune and Pluto plus eclipses for preliminary

>guidelines. Based on these I concluded that the very beginning of

>Mercury/Jupiter/Jupiter around may 24 2026 and the transition between

>Mercury/Venus and Mercury/Sun in early 2021 were THE two most likely death

>periods, followed by Mercury/Rahu/Venus in november 2025. Maybe 2021 for

>sickness and 2026 for death.

>

>Of course, I picked the last possible period! But, on 24 may 2026, saturn

>was

>in HSE B of LONGC; Jupiter, + venus, + mercury, + moon were in HSE C of

>LONGC; and Ketu, natally conjunct Moon, was in HSE E/B [lagna] on the Moon

>degree INCONJUNCT MOON.

>As for eclipses, this is for Ron if he is reading [!]- there was a total

>MOON

>ECLIPSE ON 3 MARS 2026 IN THE LAGNA, EXACTLY ON THE ASC DEGREE, and on 17

>feb

>2026, there was a total sun eclipse [trine natal saturn with a 6deg orb] in

>the 6th hse! On that date, transiting Uranus was in exact trine to natal

>moon

>[reproducing the natal aspect], transiting Pluto was conjoining natal moon

>within 4deg [past moon, and echoing the natal moon/pluto opposition], and

>transiting Neptune was sextile natal moon with a 2deg orb [past moon, and

>echoing the natal moon/neptune trine]. This is so perfect...if it's not

>wrong...

>

>Krushna, please tell me what you think, and be as critical as need be. My

>goal is to be able to look at things for/ to help people without totally

>exhausting myself, as I kind of did to-day, so some reasonably hard and

>fast

>rules to guide myself would help a lot.

>

>Finally, ending where I started this morning on house symbolism and

>longevity:

>Please tell me if these observations are on the right track, if they are

>useful within the logic of the system:

>HSE D of LONGC is in the 8th hse from HSE D of NATC

>HSE C of ------------------------8th----------------------C ------------

>HSE A of -------------------------8th----------------------A-------------

>HSE E of -------------------------8th-----------------------E-------------

>HSE B of ------------------------8th-----------------------B------------

>HSE C of---------------opposes ------------------HSE E-----------=Natal

>6/12

>axis

>HSE E of---------------conjoins-------------------HSE B-----------=Natal

>asc

>HSE D of---------------conjoins-------------------HSE C-----------=Natal

>5TH

>HSE

>HSE B of----------------conjoins------------------HSE A-----------=Natal

>8th

>hse

>HSE A

>of-=Natal

>3rd hse

>

>The 8th house is symbolic of, where we find, death, going forward after

>birth.

>It also represents the origin/conception of a matter, going backards from

>birth.

>So, logically, in any analysis of the longevity of any matter, the whole

>structure of interrelationship among houses should be based on an 8th hse

>concept. As is the case above.

>

>To find the inception of a matter [i.e. before it's born] we go backwards

>in

>time [i.e. counter-clockwise in the rasi chart] from the asc [or birth]

>applicable to the matter in question [here actual birth of the person] till

>we hit the 8th hse from that asc. So that a person born with leo asc [natal

>B] has his inception/conception/origin in Capricorn, natal E.

>

>The death of the same matter once born [here the person] occurs in the 8th

>hse from its place of birth; it happens in the future, after birth, so we

>go

>clockwise from natal B, the asc., to the 8th hse, natal A, or Pisces in

>the

>example.

>

>BUT, the seed of death lies in birth, death is the birth of another state

>of

>being, AND for death of the matter to occur and life to cease, life and

>death

>must meet.

>Consistent with these principles, we now treat the house of natal death of

>the matter under consideration as the " birth " event/hse in the longevity

>chart. Pisces, the natal 8th hse, becomes hse B of the longevity chart. We

>then look for the cause/conception/origin of death. We must therefore go

>backwards in time, counter-clockwise, to the 8th hse from Pisces. This

>brings us to Leo, the origin of death. So the origin of death- hse E of the

>longevity chart-lies in the birth of the matter- hse B of the birth chart,

>and life and death meet.

>

>In addition, there is a lovely image in the opposition that the 12th hse

>from

>the asc [end of life-hse C of the longevity chart] makes to the hse of

>natal

>conception [hse E of the natal chart], which it should be noticed is not

>otherwise active at the time of our death!

>But as far as I can tell hse D of the natal chart is completely inactive in

>the longevity chart.

>

>Aside from the 1st and 8th hses from natal asc., the active houses at the

>time of death are the 3rd, the 5th, and the 12th from the natal asc, under

>this scheme.

>It's unclear to me why the 9th hse is not taken into consideration if the

>5th

>is [both being trines to the asc] as is done in various other techniques.

>It is strange that the two longevity houses are involved, while the two

>maraka hses are ignored, so that conceivably one could end up dying in an

>MD/AD period with no maraka planets whatsoever being involved as dasa lords

>or by position in maraka houses.

>

>I assume that in the natal chart of a matter, commencing with the asc house

>for the question as B, and going forward, Hse C always falls in the 5th

>from

>it, hse E in the 6th from it, hse A in the 8th from it and hse D in the

>10th

>from it. And that the same holds true for the longevity chart of the

>matter,

>with longevity chart asc = A of natal chart always.

>

>Please tell me where I missed the boat. I don't seem to have used the same

>reasoning as Margarita...Also, if you could, could you confirm that the

>exact

>same reasoning and houses are used in all natal/longevity cases, once one

>has

>properly identified the natal birth asc. for the matter under

>consideration.

>

>If this is all correct, I'll try to understand [when I am less tired] the

>8TH

>hse in its various permutations, inheritance as A, shrewdness as E,

>research

>as C, success as D..unless you're willing to say a bit more on the subject

>than the rather cryptic recent e-mail you sent!

>

>Thanks and regards

>Christine

>

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December 18, 2000

Dear Krushna

I do apologize. This e-mail went out of my computer by mistake, I meant to

store it for future modifications, as I learnt things. It was not in fit form

to send. Not enough understanding in it. And I am embarrassed. Since the

damage is done anyway, it goes without saying that I'll be grateful for your

comments if anything is worth commenting upon and especially an elucidation

of death AD lord would be wonderful

Regards