Satsang with Nome - You Are - Question 3

[Guest guest]

Another Q.: This instruction is similar to, yet far vaster than,

letting go of ignorance in the waking state dream of life, such as

relative ignorance about a relative thing. At the point that I

recognize that it is unnecessary, pointless, and undesirable, and I

have cast up a magic barrier —- magic because there is no conceivable

mechanism for the barrier to work or make it a barrier —- and that it

is just thoughts and these thoughts need to give way to direct

experience that is far deeper, well, those elements seem to be there,

but in a far more important way.

 

N.: It is as you describe. What makes you think that you are in a

waking state?

 

Q.: I don't want to think of myself that way. Let us say that I have

memories of some success of relative ignorance passing into a better

understanding. It went through that process.

 

N.: Alright.

 

Q.: In the dream, the character goes through that process.

 

N.: In that case, there is the process of getting rid of some limited

thought for a clearer thought.

 

Q.: Right.

 

N.: The similarity of that to going beyond thought entirely is so.

Why did you refer to yourself as being in a waking state?

 

Q.: That's one of those magic barriers that are unnecessarily

constructed.

 

N.: Are there two sides to this imaginary barrier?

 

Q.: (quiet)

 

N.: If a wall is made of space, are there two sides to it? Even now,

and always, what is your state? Are you one who appears in a waking

state or are you the one who knows of the coming and going of the

waking state? What is your experience?

 

Q.: Well, this is not exactly what you are asking, but what amazes me

is the appearance of the Maharshi's teaching somewhere in this

relative life, the meeting with a disciple of the Maharshi, and the

grace of getting living instruction. I am blown away by the Bliss

that I sense in the sage. If this is the waking state and this is the

appearance of the Reality in that state, or the reflection of it,

where is that Bliss by which I am so blown away? Certainly, it is not

in a body like this body. It is still there. How can it be known? How

is it that it is known?

 

N.: Is it known with your senses or by something deeper?

 

Q.: No. It is not known by the senses.

 

N.: Is it known by mere intellectual thought or by something deeper?

 

Q.: No. It is known in the way one knows love or that someone is

loving.

 

N.: So, it is known in the depths.

 

Q.: Yes.

 

N.: Here, the bliss does not have an object as its cause. It does not

have conditions. It is known in the depths of your own Consciousness.

Consciousness, Bliss, and Being are one and the same.

 

Let's start with the Maharshi. You are casually saying that the

Maharshi appears in the waking state.

 

Q.: The teachings appear in the waking state for this character.

 

N.: Yes, but what are those teachings.

 

Q.: That there is no waking state.

 

(laughter)

 

N.: On the one hand, you may say that the Maharshi's teachings appear

in your waking state to wake you up out of your waking state. They

appear in the manifested world to wake us up from the manifested

world to realize the worldless, transcendent Reality. They appear as

if in samsara to destroy the samsara, the cycle of birth and death.

Yet, is the Maharshi, himself, one who is ever born? Does he ever

die? That which is without beginning or end is Grace, itself.

 

The instruction is apparently heard in the waking state. So, you

might erroneously say that the instruction comes from the waking

state, but it does not come from the waking state. Nor do you

actually listen to it in the waking state or any other state of mind.

At first glance, it appears to be so. There is the face, there are

the words, there are the recorded words or the printed words, etc.

What actually occurs with upadesa, spiritual instruction? What

actually is the experience?

 

Q.: The very first time that I went into a little satsang hall in San

Bruno, at the very first moment; well, I had the wrong directions,

and I arrived there late. I walked into a fairly crowded, little

place. Two waves went through my mind. I looked at the teacher in

front and I felt that that is the happiest being that I ever met. The

second thought was that this strangely reminded me of myself. I did

not know what the second one meant. How could that be? Those were the

first two thought waves. The essence of that has never changed.

 

N.: Were they just thought waves?

 

Q.: They could have been. I never had thought waves like that.

(laughter)

 

N.: There is a deeper Knowledge shining.

 

Q.: It was instantaneous, and it was not based on testimony of the

sense or analysis by the mind.

 

N.: Nor is it restricted to the waking state. We must always

understand and proceed on the basis of our own direct experience. If

we do so, we will find that it matches identically that which

composes the teachings of the wise sages. Your experience was a

deeper knowledge and not of a thought wave. Your experience of your

Self and of the Maharshi is something transcendent of the waking,

dream, and deep sleep states. It is not necessary to take up the

mental perspective that it is coming through your waking state

thoughts. The experience is no barrier. There is no reason to

construct through conceptual thinking alone the idea that there is a

barrier and that you are on one side and the Truth or transcendent

state, the Maharshi, the sages, and such are on the other side. There

are not two sides.

 

It is important to be humble and egoless. It is also important to

dive deep and to not deny one's own experience. Do not postpone truth

and bliss. You see as an analogy what, in the world, are called

ignorance and knowledge and can apply it to a certain extent to true

Knowledge and the destruction of delusion. Then, do not put off the

destruction of delusion and the realization of true Knowledge, as if

that were ahead of you to be theoretically conceived of now and to be

experienced later. Plunge in, then and there. Do not be in

the " planning stages " in regard to this inquiry, saying that you will

inquire " Who am I? " later. Here and now, one should inquire.

 

 

Not two,

Richard