Reply to John and Marifa

August 13, 2007

Hello,

I'm going to reply to two mails

which are addressed to me in a single mail, instead of writing one at

the time.

--------------------------

Dear Dragon

If you had really understood Ramana

teachings,there wouldn't be any questions coming up like yours about

what to do or not to do, it will just come on its own.

Marifa

---

Hello Marifa, (I am flattered that I

become "Dragon" instead Dragan. My name means: dear, nice : )

To 'understand' something, is not the

same as live it. To digest it. To resolve some doubts. In logical

terms, Ramana's teaching is very clear and flawless. As I said, gjana

was not to know something. It is a deep personal experience.

Then you 'know'. I

suppose that you have what I don't have, if you have this kind of

comment. You should be at the half way to sahaja samadhi. Are you? Or

you just cite Ramana?

I was talking about questions (again,

I say that I've resolved them in degree that they are not an obstacle

for me. I was so attracted to Ramama, but to 'lose myself' = ego, that

was nothing but dying for me. I had to reach some answer, because I was

in a very bad situation: I couldn't go forward or to give up.) You want

to say that your mind don't have tricks to preserve

its old functioning? If you know and understand Ramana teachings,

everything is clear? Yes, if you want to write a book. But, what is

happening inside? In your life, in your practice?

I met several people who is always repeating: "Yes, I feel Ramana's

presence". Or when I had something to ask, they used the 'standard'

approach: "Who is asking this question?" It seems that people don't

recognize our intellect and our mind. Intellect can say: "Smoking is

bad." But our mind is a long - distance runner, it is the one who must

execute our decision. So, many people smoke, even they know that it is

bad for them. Their intellect is OK, but their mind is so weak and full

of doubts.

All of these 'repeating' and 'wise' people are not Ramana's followers

anymore. Because they just 'understood' Ramana, without any test of his

teachings in their lives. Buddha says: "Don't believe me, examine my

words in practice." My questions are my past. My questions are directed

to the other people. That Ramana's path is not a game. From the

beginning (too much thoughts, problems with vichara...) to the end (the

final 'dying' experience. There is no sage who can say that it was a

very pleasant experience).

I don't know, maybe I am very complicated and stupid, but I can't

imagine that any person can read Ramana and directly apply his words.

Without any other living guru, to start from scratch to change

him/herself. Without any inner doubts or even fears?

I don't need you anymore, all Ramana's followers, am free if we

talking about my necessity to belong to some group. But, as Anthony de

Mello says, it is my choice to be with my tribe, with all of you. But

if you go, my inner orchestra will continue playing. You are right, I

have no questions, because I had to think about them and to resolve

them all. I know now were I am going and what is my path. If you asked

me a couple years ago, I was able to resolve problems with karma - free

will, and many other issues, but I was so attached to my ego, that it

was terrible. And I didn't want to let Ramana go. I got stuck for

years. In the middle of a very good practice, my mind would ask: "Do

you really want to kill me? Everything is aleady IT, so why don't let

me live?" I am not a sage, so it must be this natural moments of

doubts. Even if ego survive in some degree, we are not the same. When I

shout: "I don't want to be a sage!", I was transformed, something in me

will never be the same. Some kind of unbound feeling is inside me. But,

to ask that questions, I had to wait for 10 years! So, it is not so

simple: 'the higher power will lead us'. There is something as effort,

and a powerful wish to follow your inner being.

Anyway, thank you for your comment.

Dragan

---------------

Hello Dragon,

I have been observing this discussion and am adding my comment. Let us

assume all the questions are answered, all the explanations are given.

Then what?

The question remains "Who or What was asking? 'Who' wants to know?" The

Answer, "I am asking." The last question, "Who am 'I'?"

There is no method but to live with that question, and in every

situation. Realization comes of itself in its own time, in its own way.

"Superstars" shine outside of us, the goal is to find the light shining

within us. It does not matter how great another is; what

matters is to find it for oneself.

All the teachers and teachings are but fingers pointing the way. It is

an age-old truth that each must walk the path until "I" discover

"I" am the path.

John

Hello John,

I'll repeat some parts of my last mail (in this mail, reply to

Marifa), but it doesn't matter. As you are confused that I mentioned

some questions which are part of the path, I am confused that

everything is so clear for you. If you are not only curious (not a real

follower) and if you are not only with words in Ramana's teachings (I

think that it is not the case, that you are a real Ramana's follower),

I don't know how this group is not full of questions, but it is full

of wise people.

When I was meditate with my friend in Canada, we had a pact to

meditate every day for a month. She had so many questions: about so

many thoughts (is it right or not to have them), about vichara (is it

always in the longest form you have mentioned in your second paragraph?

I gave you so many ways to perform vichara, that she was amazed how

that 'rigid' form has transformed in the method full of variations:

"Where is I?", "I", "Who?Where is the place which always remain

untouched?"...etc.). My experience that the full version of 'who am I?'

is only when you have some very persistent thought. This vichara with 2

questions and one answer: "Who? I. Who am I?"

Yes, the final question remains. But, what if you are not ready,

really ready to surrender yourself? Your ego? You think that you are,

but you are not? Until you resolve this matter, it will be your

obstacle. The same is with: "I am a sinner" or "I will be a sage". All

labels must go. Do you thing that you have no labels at all?

OK, everything comes in its time. I was 10 years completely alone,

crucified as Jesus. How to follow Ramana, how to not follow him,

because I saw his teaching in every book, as the final conclusion? So,

I have to make a lot effort to transcend some doubts and questions.

I'll finish with the comment about your first sentence. You think

that I think: when we find our answers, everything is done, we are

sages. No. These questions are related to honesty on the path (if we

are going to be an observers or not) and to remove the obstacles in our

practice. How could I do vichara with the wish that I want to be

dependent on some people, or to lose my ego, my personal attributes?

Anyway, I did vichara, in spite of everything. Now, when I deeply

realized some things, my vichara is without obstacles. Ask anyone from

Hindu religion, or a Christian about vichara and Ramana. He would say

that it is nothing but a suicide.

Let me to be honest. I will be honest 10000%. I really don't know

anything about karma, about ego,..., just name it. But I don't care. I

have spent so many hours in fear, doubt, effort,..., that I've

transcended that things. I don't care. Something in me push me toward

Ramana and vichara. That is the end. I am as a man who was under the

water so long. What is my wish? Of course, the only one: to breath, to

make a big in - breath. I don't care about any theory anymore. Karma

don't exist? OK, that is fine with me. Ego will survive if we become

sages? Ki jai. OK.

My questions was only the expression of my amazement that nobody

ask any question in this group and I know that THIS group has so many

members and I know (something in me) that is very good and really

devoted to Ramana. I must repeat one 'ridiculous' thing: JOY. This

'stupid' thing gave me such a boost, that I can't overemphasize its

importance. Now vichara is joy for me, not effort. Buddhism without joy

(they always talk about that serene approach) and compassion is

nothing. It would be nothing but vipassan meditation which will be dull

after a week. But, with that joy and soft approach, they are almost

divine.

Be blessed John. I am happy if you are without any problems and

doubts. I am now, but I paid that with 10 years of my life, without

anything to grab and put my head, to rest for a while. Now I am ready

even to die, because I don't have any choice. That is my path.

Dragan

August 13, 2007

Dear Dragan,

thank you for your kind answer,

sorry if I mispelled your name,

but I love dragons!!

There was some misundertsanding about what you mean for understanding

Ramana's teachings. Here you explain it well.

One thing is to realise the Self

another is to take delivery from all the past conditionments

and embody the realisation.

Also I have difficulty in reading long messages

as I don't like too many words

so I misunderstood you and I felt that the questions,

particularly how to help other people to get the understanding,

was your question, but it felt really yours...

As for my understanding: no I don't have The Understanding

I just have some deep felt intuition of what Truth is

but my felt sense is separate from the understanding

that so remains mostly intellectual.

And just for playing:

do you feel that we really need to help people?

Is not enough to share our Self

with whoever comes in contact with us?

My reaction came because I felt that in your question

there was almost a forcing in making people accept our help.

I am not for forcing anything, when one is ripe he may be do inquiry or not

when one is not ripe he will do something else,

may be just praying, and who am i to say that that is not good for him?

In love

Marifa

-

Dragan Pavlovic

Ramana Group

Monday, August 13, 2007 1:37 AM

Reply to John and Marifa

Hello, I'm going to reply to two mails which are addressed to me in a single mail, instead of writing one at the time.--------------------------Dear Dragon If you had really understood Ramana teachings,there wouldn't be any questions coming up like yours about what to do or not to do, it will just come on its own. Marifa

--- Hello Marifa, (I am flattered that I become "Dragon" instead Dragan. My name means: dear, nice : ) To 'understand' something, is not the same as live it. To digest it. To resolve some doubts. In logical terms, Ramana's teaching is very clear and flawless. As I said, gjana was not to know something. It is a deep personal experience. Then you 'know'. I suppose that you have what I don't have, if you have this kind of comment. You should be at the half way to sahaja samadhi. Are you? Or you just cite Ramana? I was talking about questions (again, I say that I've resolved them in degree that they are not an obstacle for me. I was so attracted to Ramama, but to 'lose myself' = ego, that was nothing but dying for me. I had to reach some answer, because I was in a very bad situation: I couldn't go forward or to give up.) You want to say that your mind don't have tricks to preserve its old functioning? If you know and understand Ramana teachings, everything is clear? Yes, if you want to write a book. But, what is happening inside? In your life, in your practice? I met several people who is always repeating: "Yes, I feel Ramana's presence". Or when I had something to ask, they used the 'standard' approach: "Who is asking this question?" It seems that people don't recognize our intellect and our mind. Intellect can say: "Smoking is bad." But our mind is a long - distance runner, it is the one who must execute our decision. So, many people smoke, even they know that it is bad for them. Their intellect is OK, but their mind is so weak and full of doubts. All of these 'repeating' and 'wise' people are not Ramana's followers anymore. Because they just 'understood' Ramana, without any test of his teachings in their lives. Buddha says: "Don't believe me, examine my words in practice." My questions are my past. My questions are directed to the other people. That Ramana's path is not a game. From the beginning (too much thoughts, problems with vichara...) to the end (the final 'dying' experience. There is no sage who can say that it was a very pleasant experience). I don't know, maybe I am very complicated and stupid, but I can't imagine that any person can read Ramana and directly apply his words. Without any other living guru, to start from scratch to change him/herself. Without any inner doubts or even fears? I don't need you anymore, all Ramana's followers, am free if we talking about my necessity to belong to some group. But, as Anthony de Mello says, it is my choice to be with my tribe, with all of you. But if you go, my inner orchestra will continue playing. You are right, I have no questions, because I had to think about them and to resolve them all. I know now were I am going and what is my path. If you asked me a couple years ago, I was able to resolve problems with karma - free will, and many other issues, but I was so attached to my ego, that it was terrible. And I didn't want to let Ramana go. I got stuck for years. In the middle of a very good practice, my mind would ask: "Do you really want to kill me? Everything is aleady IT, so why don't let me live?" I am not a sage, so it must be this natural moments of doubts. Even if ego survive in some degree, we are not the same. When I shout: "I don't want to be a sage!", I was transformed, something in me will never be the same. Some kind of unbound feeling is inside me. But, to ask that questions, I had to wait for 10 years! So, it is not so simple: 'the higher power will lead us'. There is something as effort, and a powerful wish to follow your inner being. Anyway, thank you for your comment.Dragan---------------Hello Dragon,I have been observing this discussion and am adding my comment. Let us assume all the questions are answered, all the explanations are given. Then what?The question remains "Who or What was asking? 'Who' wants to know?" The Answer, "I am asking." The last question, "Who am 'I'?"There is no method but to live with that question, and in every situation. Realization comes of itself in its own time, in its own way."Superstars" shine outside of us, the goal is to find the light shining within us. It does not matter how great another is; whatmatters is to find it for oneself. All the teachers and teachings are but fingers pointing the way. It is an age-old truth that each must walk the path until "I" discover"I" am the path.JohnHello John, I'll repeat some parts of my last mail (in this mail, reply to Marifa), but it doesn't matter. As you are confused that I mentioned some questions which are part of the path, I am confused that everything is so clear for you. If you are not only curious (not a real follower) and if you are not only with words in Ramana's teachings (I think that it is not the case, that you are a real Ramana's follower), I don't know how this group is not full of questions, but it is full of wise people. When I was meditate with my friend in Canada, we had a pact to meditate every day for a month. She had so many questions: about so many thoughts (is it right or not to have them), about vichara (is it always in the longest form you have mentioned in your second paragraph? I gave you so many ways to perform vichara, that she was amazed how that 'rigid' form has transformed in the method full of variations: "Where is I?", "I", "Who?Where is the place which always remain untouched?"...etc.). My experience that the full version of 'who am I?' is only when you have some very persistent thought. This vichara with 2 questions and one answer: "Who? I. Who am I?" Yes, the final question remains. But, what if you are not ready, really ready to surrender yourself? Your ego? You think that you are, but you are not? Until you resolve this matter, it will be your obstacle. The same is with: "I am a sinner" or "I will be a sage". All labels must go. Do you thing that you have no labels at all? OK, everything comes in its time. I was 10 years completely alone, crucified as Jesus. How to follow Ramana, how to not follow him, because I saw his teaching in every book, as the final conclusion? So, I have to make a lot effort to transcend some doubts and questions. I'll finish with the comment about your first sentence. You think that I think: when we find our answers, everything is done, we are sages. No. These questions are related to honesty on the path (if we are going to be an observers or not) and to remove the obstacles in our practice. How could I do vichara with the wish that I want to be dependent on some people, or to lose my ego, my personal attributes? Anyway, I did vichara, in spite of everything. Now, when I deeply realized some things, my vichara is without obstacles. Ask anyone from Hindu religion, or a Christian about vichara and Ramana. He would say that it is nothing but a suicide. Let me to be honest. I will be honest 10000%. I really don't know anything about karma, about ego,..., just name it. But I don't care. I have spent so many hours in fear, doubt, effort,..., that I've transcended that things. I don't care. Something in me push me toward Ramana and vichara. That is the end. I am as a man who was under the water so long. What is my wish? Of course, the only one: to breath, to make a big in - breath. I don't care about any theory anymore. Karma don't exist? OK, that is fine with me. Ego will survive if we become sages? Ki jai. OK. My questions was only the expression of my amazement that nobody ask any question in this group and I know that THIS group has so many members and I know (something in me) that is very good and really devoted to Ramana. I must repeat one 'ridiculous' thing: JOY. This 'stupid' thing gave me such a boost, that I can't overemphasize its importance. Now vichara is joy for me, not effort. Buddhism without joy (they always talk about that serene approach) and compassion is nothing. It would be nothing but vipassan meditation which will be dull after a week. But, with that joy and soft approach, they are almost divine. Be blessed John. I am happy if you are without any problems and doubts. I am now, but I paid that with 10 years of my life, without anything to grab and put my head, to rest for a while. Now I am ready even to die, because I don't have any choice. That is my path.Dragan

August 13, 2007

It looks like this message didn't go through

so I give it a try again

Marifa

- Emanuele De Benedetti

Monday, August 13, 2007 8:14 AM

Re: Reply to John and Marifa

Dear Dragan,

thank you for your kind answer,

sorry if I mispelled your name,

but I love dragons!!

There was some misundertsanding about what you mean for understanding

Ramana's teachings. Here you explain it well.

One thing is to realise the Self

another is to take delivery from all the past conditionments

and embody the realisation.

Also I have difficulty in reading long messages

as I don't like too many words

so I misunderstood you and I felt that the questions,

particularly how to help other people to get the understanding,

was your question, but it felt really yours...

As for my understanding: no I don't have The Understanding

I just have some deep felt intuition of what Truth is

but my felt sense is separate from the understanding

that so remains mostly intellectual.

And just for playing:

do you feel that we really need to help people?

Is not enough to share our Self

with whoever comes in contact with us?

My reaction came because I felt that in your question

there was almost a forcing in making people accept our help.

I am not for forcing anything, when one is ripe he may be do inquiry or not

when one is not ripe he will do something else,

may be just praying, and who am i to say that that is not good for him?

In love

Marifa

-

Dragan Pavlovic

Ramana Group

Monday, August 13, 2007 1:37 AM

Reply to John and Marifa

Hello, I'm going to reply to two mails which are addressed to me in a single mail, instead of writing one at the time.--------------------------Dear Dragon If you had really understood Ramana teachings,there wouldn't be any questions coming up like yours about what to do or not to do, it will just come on its own. Marifa

--- Hello Marifa, (I am flattered that I become "Dragon" instead Dragan. My name means: dear, nice : ) To 'understand' something, is not the same as live it. To digest it. To resolve some doubts. In logical terms, Ramana's teaching is very clear and flawless. As I said, gjana was not to know something. It is a deep personal experience. Then you 'know'. I suppose that you have what I don't have, if you have this kind of comment. You should be at the half way to sahaja samadhi. Are you? Or you just cite Ramana? I was talking about questions (again, I say that I've resolved them in degree that they are not an obstacle for me. I was so attracted to Ramama, but to 'lose myself' = ego, that was nothing but dying for me. I had to reach some answer, because I was in a very bad situation: I couldn't go forward or to give up.) You want to say that your mind don't have tricks to preserve its old functioning? If you know and understand Ramana teachings, everything is clear? Yes, if you want to write a book. But, what is happening inside? In your life, in your practice? I met several people who is always repeating: "Yes, I feel Ramana's presence". Or when I had something to ask, they used the 'standard' approach: "Who is asking this question?" It seems that people don't recognize our intellect and our mind. Intellect can say: "Smoking is bad." But our mind is a long - distance runner, it is the one who must execute our decision. So, many people smoke, even they know that it is bad for them. Their intellect is OK, but their mind is so weak and full of doubts. All of these 'repeating' and 'wise' people are not Ramana's followers anymore. Because they just 'understood' Ramana, without any test of his teachings in their lives. Buddha says: "Don't believe me, examine my words in practice." My questions are my past. My questions are directed to the other people. That Ramana's path is not a game. From the beginning (too much thoughts, problems with vichara...) to the end (the final 'dying' experience. There is no sage who can say that it was a very pleasant experience). I don't know, maybe I am very complicated and stupid, but I can't imagine that any person can read Ramana and directly apply his words. Without any other living guru, to start from scratch to change him/herself. Without any inner doubts or even fears? I don't need you anymore, all Ramana's followers, am free if we talking about my necessity to belong to some group. But, as Anthony de Mello says, it is my choice to be with my tribe, with all of you. But if you go, my inner orchestra will continue playing. You are right, I have no questions, because I had to think about them and to resolve them all. I know now were I am going and what is my path. If you asked me a couple years ago, I was able to resolve problems with karma - free will, and many other issues, but I was so attached to my ego, that it was terrible. And I didn't want to let Ramana go. I got stuck for years. In the middle of a very good practice, my mind would ask: "Do you really want to kill me? Everything is aleady IT, so why don't let me live?" I am not a sage, so it must be this natural moments of doubts. Even if ego survive in some degree, we are not the same. When I shout: "I don't want to be a sage!", I was transformed, something in me will never be the same. Some kind of unbound feeling is inside me. But, to ask that questions, I had to wait for 10 years! So, it is not so simple: 'the higher power will lead us'. There is something as effort, and a powerful wish to follow your inner being. Anyway, thank you for your comment.Dragan---------------Hello Dragon,I have been observing this discussion and am adding my comment. Let us assume all the questions are answered, all the explanations are given. Then what?The question remains "Who or What was asking? 'Who' wants to know?" The Answer, "I am asking." The last question, "Who am 'I'?"There is no method but to live with that question, and in every situation. Realization comes of itself in its own time, in its own way."Superstars" shine outside of us, the goal is to find the light shining within us. It does not matter how great another is; whatmatters is to find it for oneself. All the teachers and teachings are but fingers pointing the way. It is an age-old truth that each must walk the path until "I" discover"I" am the path.JohnHello John, I'll repeat some parts of my last mail (in this mail, reply to Marifa), but it doesn't matter. As you are confused that I mentioned some questions which are part of the path, I am confused that everything is so clear for you. If you are not only curious (not a real follower) and if you are not only with words in Ramana's teachings (I think that it is not the case, that you are a real Ramana's follower), I don't know how this group is not full of questions, but it is full of wise people. When I was meditate with my friend in Canada, we had a pact to meditate every day for a month. She had so many questions: about so many thoughts (is it right or not to have them), about vichara (is it always in the longest form you have mentioned in your second paragraph? I gave you so many ways to perform vichara, that she was amazed how that 'rigid' form has transformed in the method full of variations: "Where is I?", "I", "Who?Where is the place which always remain untouched?"...etc.). My experience that the full version of 'who am I?' is only when you have some very persistent thought. This vichara with 2 questions and one answer: "Who? I. Who am I?" Yes, the final question remains. But, what if you are not ready, really ready to surrender yourself? Your ego? You think that you are, but you are not? Until you resolve this matter, it will be your obstacle. The same is with: "I am a sinner" or "I will be a sage". All labels must go. Do you thing that you have no labels at all? OK, everything comes in its time. I was 10 years completely alone, crucified as Jesus. How to follow Ramana, how to not follow him, because I saw his teaching in every book, as the final conclusion? So, I have to make a lot effort to transcend some doubts and questions. I'll finish with the comment about your first sentence. You think that I think: when we find our answers, everything is done, we are sages. No. These questions are related to honesty on the path (if we are going to be an observers or not) and to remove the obstacles in our practice. How could I do vichara with the wish that I want to be dependent on some people, or to lose my ego, my personal attributes? Anyway, I did vichara, in spite of everything. Now, when I deeply realized some things, my vichara is without obstacles. Ask anyone from Hindu religion, or a Christian about vichara and Ramana. He would say that it is nothing but a suicide. Let me to be honest. I will be honest 10000%. I really don't know anything about karma, about ego,..., just name it. But I don't care. I have spent so many hours in fear, doubt, effort,..., that I've transcended that things. I don't care. Something in me push me toward Ramana and vichara. That is the end. I am as a man who was under the water so long. What is my wish? Of course, the only one: to breath, to make a big in - breath. I don't care about any theory anymore. Karma don't exist? OK, that is fine with me. Ego will survive if we become sages? Ki jai. OK. My questions was only the expression of my amazement that nobody ask any question in this group and I know that THIS group has so many members and I know (something in me) that is very good and really devoted to Ramana. I must repeat one 'ridiculous' thing: JOY. This 'stupid' thing gave me such a boost, that I can't overemphasize its importance. Now vichara is joy for me, not effort. Buddhism without joy (they always talk about that serene approach) and compassion is nothing. It would be nothing but vipassan meditation which will be dull after a week. But, with that joy and soft approach, they are almost divine. Be blessed John. I am happy if you are without any problems and doubts. I am now, but I paid that with 10 years of my life, without anything to grab and put my head, to rest for a while. Now I am ready even to die, because I don't have any choice. That is my path.Dragan

August 18, 2007

Dear Marifa

this time your message is understandable - even for michael

all the best

in Ramana

michael

-

Emanuele De Benedetti

Monday, August 13, 2007 8:16 PM

Fw: Reply to John and Marifa

It looks like this message didn't go through

so I give it a try again

Marifa

- Emanuele De Benedetti

Monday, August 13, 2007 8:14 AM

Re: Reply to John and Marifa

Dear Dragan,

thank you for your kind answer,

sorry if I mispelled your name,

but I love dragons!!

There was some misundertsanding about what you mean for understanding

Ramana's teachings. Here you explain it well.

One thing is to realise the Self

another is to take delivery from all the past conditionments

and embody the realisation.

Also I have difficulty in reading long messages

as I don't like too many words

so I misunderstood you and I felt that the questions,

particularly how to help other people to get the understanding,

was your question, but it felt really yours...

As for my understanding: no I don't have The Understanding

I just have some deep felt intuition of what Truth is

but my felt sense is separate from the understanding

that so remains mostly intellectual.

And just for playing:

do you feel that we really need to help people?

Is not enough to share our Self

with whoever comes in contact with us?

My reaction came because I felt that in your question

there was almost a forcing in making people accept our help.

I am not for forcing anything, when one is ripe he may be do inquiry or not

when one is not ripe he will do something else,

may be just praying, and who am i to say that that is not good for him?

In love

Marifa

-

Dragan Pavlovic

Ramana Group

Monday, August 13, 2007 1:37 AM

Reply to John and Marifa

Hello, I'm going to reply to two mails which are addressed to me in a single mail, instead of writing one at the time.--------------------------Dear Dragon If you had really understood Ramana teachings,there wouldn't be any questions coming up like yours about what to do or not to do, it will just come on its own. Marifa

--- Hello Marifa, (I am flattered that I become "Dragon" instead Dragan. My name means: dear, nice : ) To 'understand' something, is not the same as live it. To digest it. To resolve some doubts. In logical terms, Ramana's teaching is very clear and flawless. As I said, gjana was not to know something. It is a deep personal experience. Then you 'know'. I suppose that you have what I don't have, if you have this kind of comment. You should be at the half way to sahaja samadhi. Are you? Or you just cite Ramana? I was talking about questions (again, I say that I've resolved them in degree that they are not an obstacle for me. I was so attracted to Ramama, but to 'lose myself' = ego, that was nothing but dying for me. I had to reach some answer, because I was in a very bad situation: I couldn't go forward or to give up.) You want to say that your mind don't have tricks to preserve its old functioning? If you know and understand Ramana teachings, everything is clear? Yes, if you want to write a book. But, what is happening inside? In your life, in your practice? I met several people who is always repeating: "Yes, I feel Ramana's presence". Or when I had something to ask, they used the 'standard' approach: "Who is asking this question?" It seems that people don't recognize our intellect and our mind. Intellect can say: "Smoking is bad." But our mind is a long - distance runner, it is the one who must execute our decision. So, many people smoke, even they know that it is bad for them. Their intellect is OK, but their mind is so weak and full of doubts. All of these 'repeating' and 'wise' people are not Ramana's followers anymore. Because they just 'understood' Ramana, without any test of his teachings in their lives. Buddha says: "Don't believe me, examine my words in practice." My questions are my past. My questions are directed to the other people. That Ramana's path is not a game. From the beginning (too much thoughts, problems with vichara...) to the end (the final 'dying' experience. There is no sage who can say that it was a very pleasant experience). I don't know, maybe I am very complicated and stupid, but I can't imagine that any person can read Ramana and directly apply his words. Without any other living guru, to start from scratch to change him/herself. Without any inner doubts or even fears? I don't need you anymore, all Ramana's followers, am free if we talking about my necessity to belong to some group. But, as Anthony de Mello says, it is my choice to be with my tribe, with all of you. But if you go, my inner orchestra will continue playing. You are right, I have no questions, because I had to think about them and to resolve them all. I know now were I am going and what is my path. If you asked me a couple years ago, I was able to resolve problems with karma - free will, and many other issues, but I was so attached to my ego, that it was terrible. And I didn't want to let Ramana go. I got stuck for years. In the middle of a very good practice, my mind would ask: "Do you really want to kill me? Everything is aleady IT, so why don't let me live?" I am not a sage, so it must be this natural moments of doubts. Even if ego survive in some degree, we are not the same. When I shout: "I don't want to be a sage!", I was transformed, something in me will never be the same. Some kind of unbound feeling is inside me. But, to ask that questions, I had to wait for 10 years! So, it is not so simple: 'the higher power will lead us'. There is something as effort, and a powerful wish to follow your inner being. Anyway, thank you for your comment.Dragan---------------Hello Dragon,I have been observing this discussion and am adding my comment. Let us assume all the questions are answered, all the explanations are given. Then what?The question remains "Who or What was asking? 'Who' wants to know?" The Answer, "I am asking." The last question, "Who am 'I'?"There is no method but to live with that question, and in every situation. Realization comes of itself in its own time, in its own way."Superstars" shine outside of us, the goal is to find the light shining within us. It does not matter how great another is; whatmatters is to find it for oneself. All the teachers and teachings are but fingers pointing the way. It is an age-old truth that each must walk the path until "I" discover"I" am the path.JohnHello John, I'll repeat some parts of my last mail (in this mail, reply to Marifa), but it doesn't matter. As you are confused that I mentioned some questions which are part of the path, I am confused that everything is so clear for you. If you are not only curious (not a real follower) and if you are not only with words in Ramana's teachings (I think that it is not the case, that you are a real Ramana's follower), I don't know how this group is not full of questions, but it is full of wise people. When I was meditate with my friend in Canada, we had a pact to meditate every day for a month. She had so many questions: about so many thoughts (is it right or not to have them), about vichara (is it always in the longest form you have mentioned in your second paragraph? I gave you so many ways to perform vichara, that she was amazed how that 'rigid' form has transformed in the method full of variations: "Where is I?", "I", "Who?Where is the place which always remain untouched?"...etc.). My experience that the full version of 'who am I?' is only when you have some very persistent thought. This vichara with 2 questions and one answer: "Who? I. Who am I?" Yes, the final question remains. But, what if you are not ready, really ready to surrender yourself? Your ego? You think that you are, but you are not? Until you resolve this matter, it will be your obstacle. The same is with: "I am a sinner" or "I will be a sage". All labels must go. Do you thing that you have no labels at all? OK, everything comes in its time. I was 10 years completely alone, crucified as Jesus. How to follow Ramana, how to not follow him, because I saw his teaching in every book, as the final conclusion? So, I have to make a lot effort to transcend some doubts and questions. I'll finish with the comment about your first sentence. You think that I think: when we find our answers, everything is done, we are sages. No. These questions are related to honesty on the path (if we are going to be an observers or not) and to remove the obstacles in our practice. How could I do vichara with the wish that I want to be dependent on some people, or to lose my ego, my personal attributes? Anyway, I did vichara, in spite of everything. Now, when I deeply realized some things, my vichara is without obstacles. Ask anyone from Hindu religion, or a Christian about vichara and Ramana. He would say that it is nothing but a suicide. Let me to be honest. I will be honest 10000%. I really don't know anything about karma, about ego,..., just name it. But I don't care. I have spent so many hours in fear, doubt, effort,..., that I've transcended that things. I don't care. Something in me push me toward Ramana and vichara. That is the end. I am as a man who was under the water so long. What is my wish? Of course, the only one: to breath, to make a big in - breath. I don't care about any theory anymore. Karma don't exist? OK, that is fine with me. Ego will survive if we become sages? Ki jai. OK. My questions was only the expression of my amazement that nobody ask any question in this group and I know that THIS group has so many members and I know (something in me) that is very good and really devoted to Ramana. I must repeat one 'ridiculous' thing: JOY. This 'stupid' thing gave me such a boost, that I can't overemphasize its importance. Now vichara is joy for me, not effort. Buddhism without joy (they always talk about that serene approach) and compassion is nothing. It would be nothing but vipassan meditation which will be dull after a week. But, with that joy and soft approach, they are almost divine. Be blessed John. I am happy if you are without any problems and doubts. I am now, but I paid that with 10 years of my life, without anything to grab and put my head, to rest for a while. Now I am ready even to die, because I don't have any choice. That is my path.Dragan

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