Reply to John

[Guest guest]

Dragan,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

You are very clear.

The awareness is that all questions come from the mind.

The issue is to let the mind be the mind and do what minds do which is

observe and analyze. The mind is a great tool.

 

The point is that reality is beyond mind and includes it. We suffer

because we are attached to limited views of all and everything.

Attachments arise from the body and mind.

 

The testimony of the sages is that we must set body and mind concerns

aside - this is the purpose of concentration and meditation practices

- to learn a more effective way to observe. The greatest limitation is

how we see ourselves. To be attached to this limited view of self is

seen to be the source of our problems and sufferings.

 

The surrender is not suicide rather it is the giving up of this

limited view of " Who and What I am " . The Jnanis have determined that

the way to do this is to go directly to the heart of the matter.

 

The method for doing that is to confront the " I " directly. As the

attempt is made to resolve the question the limited views are found

and given up. For some this is an instant revelation, but for most it

is a process, like peeling an onion.

 

The end of the matter (in words) is to give up little self and realize

the Great SELF. Even to touch this is Sat-Chit-Ananda.

 

Your concern for those with questions is compassionate.

Ramana's action in the face of such questions is helpful. There were

three responses:

 

1. Silence, and wordless transmission.

2. " Who am I? " cutting through all the questions.

3. Explanations for those sincere practitioners who were making

progress and often in the position for helping others. Most of those

explanations were in the context of followers who were knowledgeable

of the various teachings of Sanatana Dharma and Yoga and who wanted to

understand their experiences in that context.

 

I cannot speak for the others in this Group but it appears that most

here have gotten the message that too often questions are the mind's

diversion because it is trying to avoid the question. This is defense

and the mind is fearing that if it actually faces the issue it will

die. It seeks to understand - and understanding is the problem. The

answer is realization that causes us to shift our view of reality

radically.

 

As has been said many times: The only way to be there is to be there.

 

Simple example. After one learns to count, one can learn to add,

subtract, multiply and divide. The operations of arithmetic are a step

up from counting. In the beginning one adds by counting the first

number and then continues counting in the next number and so on. One

day the realization comes that by learning some simple rules one can

add directly bypassing the counting. Counting is still available and

valuable but the operations of arithmetic now open up a new dimension.

Still in the realm of numbers there is a dimension beyond counting and

arithmetic called algebra. Another shift in consciousness is needed.

That is we can generalize the process by representing numbers as

variables using symbols. Again a major shift in awareness.

 

Just so in dealing with what might be called " spiritual psychology " .

There is a " shift " which comes when we give up the limited view of the

mind and " I " and we become aware of, as Ramana called it, the I-I.

 

What is this " I-I " ? It is the Source of the " I " but it also transcends

the " I " through inclusion. The " I " is not excluded, it is subsumed

into something more. There are only two ways Ramana used to describe

what this " something more " is:

 

1. Wordless: Silence.

2. Words: I-I

 

The second way is a crutch we use until we can fully enter that

profound area where there is only Silence.

 

" Who am I? " The honest answer is " I don't know. "

Reaching that point the real work begins.

 

Namaste,

John

[Guest guest]

Hello John and all,Thank you for that post, you put things very well.  It is always good to see you here; I hope you are doing well.  A couple years back you were a big help to me with a few k related questions, and I am always happy to see you show up here, like an old and trusted friend.  I have been reading the discussion of the last few days and I wondered if any of you have read and of David Hawkin's books.  The most recent is Discovery of the Presence of God:Devotional Nonduality; others include I: Reality and Subjectivity; The Eye of the I: From Which Nothing is Hidden; and Power vs. Force: An Anatomy of Consciousness.   Hawkins is an American psychiatrist who writes very well about his experiences on the path; he refers often to Ramana and the use of the question, "What am I?"   His books are a very accessible means for understanding the path toward enlightenment presented in the linguistic framework and context of current western culture. JillOn Aug 13, 2007, at 12:10 PM, John Logan wrote:Dragan,Thank you for your email.You are very clear.The awareness is that all questions come from the mind.The issue is to let the mind be the mind and do what minds do which isobserve and analyze. The mind is a great tool.The point is that reality is beyond mind and includes it. We sufferbecause we are attached to limited views of all and everything.Attachments arise from the body and mind.The testimony of the sages is that we must set body and mind concernsaside - this is the purpose of concentration and meditation practices- to learn a more effective way to observe. The greatest limitation ishow we see ourselves. To be attached to this limited view of self isseen to be the source of our problems and sufferings.The surrender is not suicide rather it is the giving up of thislimited view of "Who and What I am". The Jnanis have determined thatthe way to do this is to go directly to the heart of the matter.The method for doing that is to confront the "I" directly. As theattempt is made to resolve the question the limited views are foundand given up. For some this is an instant revelation, but for most itis a process, like peeling an onion.The end of the matter (in words) is to give up little self and realizethe Great SELF. Even to touch this is Sat-Chit-Ananda.Your concern for those with questions is compassionate.Ramana's action in the face of such questions is helpful. There werethree responses:1. Silence, and wordless transmission.2. "Who am I?" cutting through all the questions.3. Explanations for those sincere practitioners who were makingprogress and often in the position for helping others. Most of thoseexplanations were in the context of followers who were knowledgeableof the various teachings of Sanatana Dharma and Yoga and who wanted tounderstand their experiences in that context.I cannot speak for the others in this Group but it appears that mosthere have gotten the message that too often questions are the mind'sdiversion because it is trying to avoid the question. This is defenseand the mind is fearing that if it actually faces the issue it willdie. It seeks to understand - and understanding is the problem. Theanswer is realization that causes us to shift our view of realityradically.As has been said many times: The only way to be there is to be there.Simple example. After one learns to count, one can learn to add,subtract, multiply and divide. The operations of arithmetic are a stepup from counting. In the beginning one adds by counting the firstnumber and then continues counting in the next number and so on. Oneday the realization comes that by learning some simple rules one canadd directly bypassing the counting. Counting is still available andvaluable but the operations of arithmetic now open up a new dimension.Still in the realm of numbers there is a dimension beyond counting andarithmetic called algebra. Another shift in consciousness is needed.That is we can generalize the process by representing numbers asvariables using symbols. Again a major shift in awareness.Just so in dealing with what might be called "spiritual psychology".There is a "shift" which comes when we give up the limited view of themind and "I" and we become aware of, as Ramana called it, the I-I.What is this "I-I"? It is the Source of the "I" but it also transcendsthe "I" through inclusion. The "I" is not excluded, it is subsumedinto something more. There are only two ways Ramana used to describewhat this "something more" is:1. Wordless: Silence.2. Words: I-IThe second way is a crutch we use until we can fully enter thatprofound area where there is only Silence."Who am I?" The honest answer is "I don't know."Reaching that point the real work begins.Namaste,John

[Guest guest]

Dear John

 

i just read your mail to Dragan and have to confess that the clarity and precision which you use is incredible.

Thank you sooo much for this lesson!

 

Be hugged with a deep inner and outward SMILE

 

:--)))))

 

 

in Ramana

 

michael

 

 

 

-

John Logan

Monday, August 13, 2007 6:10 PM

Re: Reply to John

 

 

Dragan,Thank you for your email.You are very clear.The awareness is that all questions come from the mind.The issue is to let the mind be the mind and do what minds do which isobserve and analyze. The mind is a great tool.The point is that reality is beyond mind and includes it. We sufferbecause we are attached to limited views of all and everything.Attachments arise from the body and mind.The testimony of the sages is that we must set body and mind concernsaside - this is the purpose of concentration and meditation practices- to learn a more effective way to observe. The greatest limitation ishow we see ourselves. To be attached to this limited view of self isseen to be the source of our problems and sufferings.The surrender is not suicide rather it is the giving up of thislimited view of "Who and What I am". The Jnanis have determined thatthe way to do this is to go directly to the heart of the matter.The method for doing that is to confront the "I" directly. As theattempt is made to resolve the question the limited views are foundand given up. For some this is an instant revelation, but for most itis a process, like peeling an onion.The end of the matter (in words) is to give up little self and realizethe Great SELF. Even to touch this is Sat-Chit-Ananda.Your concern for those with questions is compassionate.Ramana's action in the face of such questions is helpful. There werethree responses:1. Silence, and wordless transmission.2. "Who am I?" cutting through all the questions.3. Explanations for those sincere practitioners who were makingprogress and often in the position for helping others. Most of thoseexplanations were in the context of followers who were knowledgeableof the various teachings of Sanatana Dharma and Yoga and who wanted tounderstand their experiences in that context.I cannot speak for the others in this Group but it appears that mosthere have gotten the message that too often questions are the mind'sdiversion because it is trying to avoid the question. This is defenseand the mind is fearing that if it actually faces the issue it willdie. It seeks to understand - and understanding is the problem. Theanswer is realization that causes us to shift our view of realityradically.As has been said many times: The only way to be there is to be there.Simple example. After one learns to count, one can learn to add,subtract, multiply and divide. The operations of arithmetic are a stepup from counting. In the beginning one adds by counting the firstnumber and then continues counting in the next number and so on. Oneday the realization comes that by learning some simple rules one canadd directly bypassing the counting. Counting is still available andvaluable but the operations of arithmetic now open up a new dimension.Still in the realm of numbers there is a dimension beyond counting andarithmetic called algebra. Another shift in consciousness is needed.That is we can generalize the process by representing numbers asvariables using symbols. Again a major shift in awareness.Just so in dealing with what might be called "spiritual psychology".There is a "shift" which comes when we give up the limited view of themind and "I" and we become aware of, as Ramana called it, the I-I.What is this "I-I"? It is the Source of the "I" but it also transcendsthe "I" through inclusion. The "I" is not excluded, it is subsumedinto something more. There are only two ways Ramana used to describewhat this "something more" is:1. Wordless: Silence.2. Words: I-IThe second way is a crutch we use until we can fully enter thatprofound area where there is only Silence."Who am I?" The honest answer is "I don't know."Reaching that point the real work begins.Namaste,John

 

 

Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.15/949 - Release 12/08/2007 11.03

[Guest guest]

Hello John,

 

What to say? If you read my first mail (or the second),

I was

talking about the same things. Yes, the mind is a great and only tool

we have, but it shouldn't be our master, but only a tool.

Again, we see things differently. That is, you are

preaching again. When I see your mail, it is like reading some advaita

book. I wonder: you are either very advanced, or you are not sure about

your practice, so you can't help yourself, you must preach to be sure

that you really understand some things. Don't be offended, it is

not my intention. But read your sentences. Just like reading a

book. I should put 'of course' in the end of any paragraph of yours.

What is the use of that kind of spiritual exchange? Where is John? Show

me John Logan. Show me your heart and thoughts. Talking only in

absolute therms has only one purpose: you will get tired of it and you

will give up. Life must hit you, you must reflect, live Ramana's

teaching, have some problems, bad shipwrecks, to say that you really

understand what you are talking about. Or to have a great practice. It

seems that you are very young. About 30 at most. I was (a and I am

still) a walking library, you just need to push the button and choose

the topic: Tao, Buddhism, Ramana, Nisargadatta, Suzuki, Zen,

Schopenhauer, Freud,..., but I stopped with that. It was worth of my

efforts: I'm not attached to endless reading anymore.

See any other groups. Read some books. They are the same as your

mail. You see one, you saw it all. After the 10th book, you understand

things, or not. I am not attached even to Ramana's books, I am attached

to Ramana, to IT, which I can't explain. Who can explain the Self? To

be personal, in impersonal teachings, that is a real art. : )

 

Of course that reality is beyond our

mind. Of course that our problem is in our attachments. I can say that

I don't agree that we should pay so much attention to the fact how we

see ourselves. Do vichara and you'll see. Don't make me to be cruel as

you were last time, to use 'the cutting' method: "Who is limited? Who

is the one who should see himself?" : ) This method is very good if

somebody is very persistent and wants to be right. Then we should 'cut'

him with these questions (who?). But, when somebody reveal his soul,

this is very wrong method, we should help, or to read with pleasure

some insights of the other person.

 

The only thing which is genuine, really yours, is your

comment that people don't ask questions because they are afraid that

somebody will use the 'cutting method' and somebody will laugh at their

'ignorance'. That is a real bull eye. And even that you told with a big

reluctance, very carefully. And this is the best part of your mail.

 

Then you gave me the lesson about 'I - I'. Thanks. I

haven't read and thing about that less than 100 times.

 

You need a story. Of course, the best stories is about the martial

arts, that is, about swordsmanship. Why? Because it is a metaphor of

life, but it is compressed form, because in a second you can die, or

save your life, depending of your understanding and skill. So, when a

rookie go to his master, he is very natural. If somebody attacks him,

he will jump immediately. Then, he has some lessons. And more lessons.

And more... What happens? When somebody attacks him, he is frozen:

"Hmm..., he wants to hit me that way, should I use.... technique or

..... move? Hmm...." In meantime, he is 'dead'. Students use wooden

swords, and he has a bad headache, because his opponent hit him while

he was thinking what to do.

And our hero must practice. He must resolve many technical

problems, to learn all moves, strategies, the core of that martial art.

His path is not linear, sometimes our hero is very good, sometimes is

very disappointed. Sometimes is very boring even to practice, because

he feels that there is no improvement in his skill. But he is

persistent anyway. Then, he is a master! The cycle is finished.

Hallelujah!

He has now both qualities: he jumps immediately, the same way as he

was a rookie, but his technique is with him, his unconscious mind react

immediately and his body obeys. He almost forgotten his knowledge, all

techniques, he is free. He has some other quality: he is calm. If we

use our technique only, some man will be better than we are. It is

always somebody with some better technique. But, if our mind is calm,

we are invincible. Zen says that a perfect master of sword has no

'suki' (any weak spot). There isn't any space which will be available

for the sword of the opponent. All space is covered, defended, even a

space small as a single hair around our master is safe, the sword can't

enter to cut him. Because the mind of the master is shapeless. The best

samurai ever, Miamoto Musashi, (he wrote "Five circles") has a non -

rigid technique, he was very direct and his principles were very clear

and simple. He didn't have even some guards, or some standard postures.

Everything was natural.

 

The same is with our spiritual life. At first, we are 'natural',

free as any bird, cat,... But, we must go through the next step of

evolution: we must develop our tool, our mind, which will enslave us,

then we must be persistent, to have ups and downs, pain, dullness, but

if we are persistent, we will transcend our mind, our knowledge. If we

grasp the essence, the more we forget, the greater we are. To ask some

master how he won in a duel, he can't say, because his moves were

action, not reaction. He moved in no time. Immediately. Without

thinking. Zen people call this 'mind of no - mind'.

 

Again, don't see this mail as the mean thing toward you. I wish you

the best. I wish you to read as many books as you need, and to forget

them. : ) To be as our master: free. But, you still use 'techniques'.

If I was a man from the street, it would be OK to preach me. But what

you know, I know too. What you realized, digested, your experience,

that is what you should talk about. When you are sad, or have some big

problems, it is almost rude if somebody would tell you: "Who is the one

who is sad? You? Who you are? Investigate!" Even Ramana, our beloved

Ramana, says that sometimes we must wait until our mind is in sattva -

guna, in a lucid and clear state and use that state 200%. If the

knowledge were crucial, Ganapati Shastri, Ramana's disciple would be

Ramana's teacher, not vice versa. Ganapati had so much 'knowledge' in

his head, Ramana couldn't beat him in many disciplines: languages,

logic, even in a debate. But, Ramana knew what is worth to know. The

other things were irrelevant.

 

I'm very sorry John. I wasn't so harsh and direct in my whole life.

I am always calm and very gentle. I argue very rarely, and I've never

hid another person in my life, even I have the 4th degree, kung fu. I

know how to hurt somebody. Anyway, I don't use the force and harsh

words. But, this kind of mail, like yours, leads to nowhere. Group with

that kind of mails is dead. It is a knowledge contest, or 'yes', 'this

is true' group, without any real life in it. Nothing more. Give me your

doubts, pain, accomplishments, moments of bliss, YOUR comments, YOUR

things. You won't betray Ramana if you have something to add. To say.

Otherwise, we can delegate some tasks: on Mondays, you will talk about

Maha Yoga, on Tuesdays, I will talk about Yoga Vasishta, on Wednesdays

Richard will talk about Sri Ramana Gita... I don't see any sense in

that. See other forums, they are full of 'quotation people'. I was on a

Buddhist chat, on the main channel they discussed about prajna, about

this, that,..., it was like a quiz. Who is the better.

 

As Uncle Sam says: I WANT YOU, John. Not your knowledge from books,

so directly used. This is the thing which can be put under our control,

to get rid of it, not to gain more of that. Q: What does a sage knows?"

Ramana: "Only the things which are worth of knowing". That is all. We

must lose, not to get something. I know that you agree, but you are

full of words, which are not yours. Speak with your voice. Read my

post, Sosan's text. Cut your theory. Talk about yourself. And I will

listen.

 

Again, I have nothing against you. I don't think that you are

ignorant, that you don't know what you are writing. I am sure that you

do. But I ask you why you do this, why you write books, not mails? I

could see John in two paragraphs only. The rest is from books. While I

was full of words, my understanding, deep understanding was equal to

zero. When I stopped talking, all obstacles vanished. All of them. Even

Ramana's picture is 'alive' now, for me. Ramana's eyes say: "I am here

for you." A year ago, I had a wall between Ramana and me. It was my

restless mind, which was always hungry to know more, to gain something

new. It is not the way.

 

I have nothing to lose, John. If you understood this mail properly,

I would get a new friend. If you not, I can always read a book and skip

your mails. This is the same. To hear something from you, I am always

ready for that. When I was talking about vichara and JOY, you could

think: "What a jerk!" But, it is mine, my experience, that I don't need

to be too harsh as I am at a funeral. This is MY experience. My

personal signature. I can't see anything yours. And everybody filters

his experience through his mind, there is no two practices and paths,

which are exactly the same. Find your voice, John.

 

Be blessed and well.

 

Dragan

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hmmm.

 

You are correct.

All that writing is complex and relative.

The truth is simple and if said, is said in few words.

The Absolute points to the truth and the relative points to the mind.

 

That is why much of what is written here is written in the Absolute.

 

You asked to see the real me.

There is no " me " to see.

What you see is what you get;

what you saw is what you got.

 

John

 

=====================================================================

 

The Real Secret

 

Nothing is mine

and no-one can take

that away from me.

 

I am free.

 

Peace,

Anna

[Guest guest]

There are games and game-players,

there are master games and master game-players, and

there are Masters.

 

Be very careful with that mask.

 

John

[Guest guest]

Dearest John,

 

You are so right! The ultimate truth is simple. There is nothing

complicated in the Self. Indeed, that is the utter beauty of it. The

emptiness that is absolutely full.

 

I remember when by the grace of Sri Ramana, my mind entered the Heart.

What can anyone say of that state. We all know it deep down and that is

why we are able to recognize it. It is our essential and natural state.

 

When I opened my eyes, I remember exactly the thoughts that came to

me... " It is only Me. It is only Me. What else did I expect. "

 

I use the capital Me only to point to the essence which we all have, the

underlying essence in all of us. I could also say " me " but it would be

confused with the personality. The essential " me " turned out to be Me.

So even in my normal awakened state, I saw that the essential " me " was

Me. It is a recognition. A simple clear recognition of our own nature.

 

Well, the conversation got me talking and I am so self-absorbed I talk

about myself and try all your patience :-). I am not like this at

parties. :-).

 

John, thank you for sharing your wisdom over the years and all your

blessings.

 

Much love

Harsha

 

John Logan wrote:

> Hmmm.

>

> You are correct.

> All that writing is complex and relative.

> The truth is simple and if said, is said in few words.

> The Absolute points to the truth and the relative points to the mind.

>

> That is why much of what is written here is written in the Absolute.

>

> You asked to see the real me.

> There is no " me " to see.

> What you see is what you get;

> what you saw is what you got.

>

> John

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear John

 

please help me

 

for whom was your message intended?

 

in Ramana

 

 

michael

 

 

 

-

John Logan

Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:39 PM

Re: Reply to John

 

 

There are games and game-players,there are master games and master game-players, andthere are Masters.Be very careful with that mask.John

 

 

Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.17/951 - Release 13/08/2007 10.15

[Guest guest]

Dear Jill, Marifa, Michael, and some others,

 

Your e-mails for some reason have been ending up in the spam. I am

not sure why but that is the reason for their delay in appearing. If I

don't log onto the group site, the spam mails stay there until released.

Possibly is preventing spam from your IP due to some problems. I

don't know.

 

Anyway, that's life. I will try to come up with a solution. Otherwise,

just bear with me.

 

Namaste and love to all

Harsha

 

Jill Eggers wrote:

> Hello John and all,

>

> Thank you for that post, you put things very well. It is always good

> to see you here; I hope you are doing well. A couple years back you

> were a big help to me with a few k related questions, and I am always

> happy to see you show up here, like an old and trusted friend.

>

> I have been reading the discussion of the last few days and I wondered

> if any of you have read and of David Hawkin's books. The most recent

> is Discovery of the Presence of God:Devotional Nonduality; others

> include I: Reality and Subjectivity; The Eye of the I: From Which

> Nothing is Hidden; and Power vs. Force: An Anatomy of Consciousness.

> Hawkins is an American psychiatrist who writes very well about his

> experiences on the path; he refers often to Ramana and the use of the

> question, " What am I? " His books are a very accessible means for

> understanding the path toward enlightenment presented in the

> linguistic framework and context of current western culture.

>

> Jill

>

>

[Guest guest]

Michael and All,

 

There are three masks described. It is intended for whomever they fit.

This is an important distinction especially since the 1960s with many

fuzzy and phoney avatars and gurus springing up then and ever since.

 

Transactional Analysis deals with Games and Gameplayers.

 

The Master Game is more subtle and harder to detect. It depends on the

gullibility of seekers and followers whose motives are not well

defined. Generally the Master Gameplayer can be detected because their

stock in trade is to show you how great they are. The MGP will set up

the follower with many questions and purport to be seeking answers but

when answers are offered the follower is put down in some way and

proven to be inferior. Actually the MGP and their games can often be

analyzed in the same way as the Game Player. In both cases the Game is

" I win, you lose. "

 

The Master sees us as we are with compassion and understanding, uses

skillful means to meet us where we are and invite us to take a Higher

View and Path. We are coaxed into Self Realization. The Master does

not seek adulation from the followers rather they look for and seek

the greatness of the follower, taking the follower to the Truth

Within. The Master teaches not the Master's Path but lures the

follower into the follower's path!

 

Your path may not be my path. My path may not be the best path for

you. The Master will assist the follower in finding their best path.

 

Ramana never tells us what the answer is to the question: What am I?

He only says " Ask the question. Seek the answer. You will find it? "

 

Tat twam asi!

 

John

 

, " Michael Bindel "

<michael.bindel wrote:

>

> Dear John

>

> please help me

>

> for whom was your message intended?

>

> in Ramana

>

>

> michael

>

>

> -

> John Logan

>

> Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:39 PM

> Re: Reply to John

>

>

> There are games and game-players,

> there are master games and master game-players, and

> there are Masters.

>

> Be very careful with that mask.

>

> John

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

>

>

>

>

> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.17/951 - Release Date:

13/08/2007 10.15

>

[Guest guest]

Dear John

 

 

now i got it!

thank you for your help!

 

exactly as you wrote in the 60s......

 

 

on my path i discovered the main points on myself - without books.

In spite of being a booklover i did not see any books about truth seeking.

As soon as i found the way " myself " (Grace) books i have seen books

everywhere.... 60s

 

this person strong sense of authenticity helped me not to fall in the

GuruTraps

 

 

in love

 

michael

 

-

" John Logan " <johnrloganis

 

Sunday, August 19, 2007 12:21 AM

Re: Reply to John

 

 

> Michael and All,

>

> There are three masks described. It is intended for whomever they fit.

> This is an important distinction especially since the 1960s with many

> fuzzy and phoney avatars and gurus springing up then and ever since.

>

> Transactional Analysis deals with Games and Gameplayers.

>

> The Master Game is more subtle and harder to detect. It depends on the

> gullibility of seekers and followers whose motives are not well

> defined. Generally the Master Gameplayer can be detected because their

> stock in trade is to show you how great they are. The MGP will set up

> the follower with many questions and purport to be seeking answers but

> when answers are offered the follower is put down in some way and

> proven to be inferior. Actually the MGP and their games can often be

> analyzed in the same way as the Game Player. In both cases the Game is

> " I win, you lose. "

>

> The Master sees us as we are with compassion and understanding, uses

> skillful means to meet us where we are and invite us to take a Higher

> View and Path. We are coaxed into Self Realization. The Master does

> not seek adulation from the followers rather they look for and seek

> the greatness of the follower, taking the follower to the Truth

> Within. The Master teaches not the Master's Path but lures the

> follower into the follower's path!

>

> Your path may not be my path. My path may not be the best path for

> you. The Master will assist the follower in finding their best path.

>

> Ramana never tells us what the answer is to the question: What am I?

> He only says " Ask the question. Seek the answer. You will find it? "

>

> Tat twam asi!

>

> John

>

> , " Michael Bindel "

> <michael.bindel wrote:

>>

>> Dear John

>>

>> please help me

>>

>> for whom was your message intended?

>>

>> in Ramana

>>

>>

>> michael

>>

>>

>> -

>> John Logan

>>

>> Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:39 PM

>> Re: Reply to John

>>

>>

>> There are games and game-players,

>> there are master games and master game-players, and

>> there are Masters.

>>

>> Be very careful with that mask.

>>

>> John

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.17/951 - Release Date:

> 13/08/2007 10.15

>>

>

>

>

>

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>

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> _________

>

>

>