thank you

August 13, 2007

Dear Dragan

thank you for your INPUT

as i realized we have always to be on guard not to follow our patterns in everything.....

only the SELF IS

yours sincerely

michael

August 14, 2007

Hi Michael,

Sometimes I am very confused. I don't know what your comments (of

this group) means. I know that you have that feeling that only God is,

or the Self is. So, Michael, dive into it! I don't have any thoughts

about the Self, or anything like that. I am simply calm as much as I

could. I do vichara. I don't use quotes, unless I have to explain

something.

Compare the last mail of Richard's and of Harsha moderator. These

two mails are different than the other mails. (Your personal mail was

the same, it was from your heart. The rest were only empty talk.) These

two people gave me a grown, personal reply. They offered me their inner

world. Without any preaching. Because we are all more than qualified

for Ramana's teaching, so we don't need to repeat some things as

parrots. Harsha moderator told me HIS story. This path is strictly

personal, subjective, although it is impersonal by its nature. I cite

Ramana only when he can say something better than me, so he says that

vichara is so efficient, because there is no object, just subject in

it. Harsha moderator offered me himself, without any veils, that is the

mail which deserves to be respected.

The same is with Richard. Read his mail, his reply to mine. The

last one. It is a personal story. If I start preaching, please, kill

me. : ) My mails are like Richard's and Moderator's. I give you (to the

whole group) my insights, I give you myself. And you felt it. All of

you. Even some of you who wanted to preach. Not to say something

creative, to compare experiences, or some deeper knowledge, but they

just used the theory.

It seems that I have no other choice but to give you Sosan. Increase

the font (I didn't want that my mail be too long) and read it. Zen is a

remedy against any preaching. For you Michael: "Although all dualities

come from the One, do not be attached even to this One". For Richard:

see the other bold and underlined part: "Not two". I like this part

very much, a real advaita. This is the proof that all impersonal paths

are form the same family, with the same conclusions.

Hsin Hsin Ming:

The Book of Nothing

by Hsin Hsin Ming - verses on the

faith mind of Sengstan (Sosan) 3rd Zen Patriarch

The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no

preferences. When love and hate are both absent everything becomes

clear and undisguised. Make the smallest distinction, however, and

heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. If you wish to see the truth

then hold no opinion for or against. The struggle of what one likes and

what one dislikes is the disease of the mind.

*

When the deep meaning of things is not understood the mind's essential

peace is disturbed to no avail. The way is perfect like vast space

where nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess. Indeed, it is due to

our choosing to accept or reject that we do not see the true nature of

things. Live neither in the entanglements of outer things, nor in inner

feelings of emptiness. Be serene without striving activity in the

oneness of things and such erroneous views will disappear by

themselves. When you try to stop activity to achieve passivity your

very effort fills you with activity. As long as you remain in one

extreme or the other you will never know Oneness. Those who do not live

in the single Way fail in both activity and passivity, assertion and

denial.

* *

To deny the reality of things is to miss their reality; to assert the

emptiness of things is to miss their reality. The more you talk and

think about it, the further astray you wander from the truth. Stop

talking and thinking and there is nothing you will not be able to know.

* * *

To return to the root is to find the meaning, but to pursue appearances

is to miss the source. At the moment of inner enlightenment there is a

going beyond appearance and emptiness. The changes that appear to occur

in the empty world we call real only because of our ignorance. Do not

search for the truth; only cease to hold opinions. Do not remain in the

dualistic state; avoid such pursuits carefully. If there is a trace of

this and that, the right and wrong, the Mind-essence will be lost in

confusion. Although all dualities come from the One, do not be

attached even to this One. When mind exists undisturbed in the

Way, nothing in the world can offend, and when a thing can no longer

offend it ceases to exist in the old way. When no discriminating

thoughts arise, the old mind ceases to exist.

* *

When thought objects vanish, the thinking-subject vanishes, as when the

mind vanishes, objects vanish. Things are objects because of the

subject; the mind is such because of things. Understand the relativity

of these two and the basic reality: the unity of emptiness. In this

Emptiness the two are indistinguishable and each contains in itself the

whole world. If you do not discriminate between coarse and fine you

will no be tempted to prejudice and opinion.

*

To live in the Great Way is neither easy nor difficult, but those with

limited views are fearful and irresolute: the faster they hurry, the

slower they go, and clinging cannot be limited: even to be attached to

the idea of enlightenment is to go astray. Just let things be in their

own way and there will be neither coming nor going. Obey the nature of

things (your own nature), and you will walk freely and undisturbed.

When thought is in bondage the truth is hidden, for everything is murky

and unclear, and the burdensome practice of judging brings annoyance

and weariness. What benefit can be derived from distinctions and

separations? If you wish to move in the One Way do not dislike even the

world of senses and ideas. Indeed, to accept them fully is identical

with true Enlightenment. The wise man strives for no goals but the

foolish man fetters himself. There is one Dharma, truth, law, not many;

distinctions arise from the clinging needs of the ignorant. To seek

Mind with the discriminating mind is the greatest of all mistakes.

* *

Rest and unrest derive from illusion; with enlightenment there is no

liking and disliking. All dualities come from ignorant inference. They

are like dreams or flowers in the air; foolish try to grasp them. Gain

and loss, right and wrong: such thoughts must finally be abolished at

once. If the eye never sleeps, all dreams will naturally cease. If the

mind makes no discriminations, the ten thousand things are as they

are, of single essence. To understand the mystery of this One-essence

is to be released from all entanglements. When all things are seen

equally the timeless Self-essence is reached. No comparisons or

analogies are possible in this causeless, relationless state.

* * *

Consider movement stationary and the stationary in motion, and both the

state of movement and the state of rest disappear. When such dualities

cease to exist Oneness itself cannot exist. To this ultimate finality

no law or description applies. For the unified mind in accord with the

Way all self-centered striving ceases. Doubts and irresolutions vanish

and life in true faith is possible. With a single stroke we are freed

from bondage; nothing clings to us and we hold nothing. All is empty,

clear, self-illuminating, with no exertion of the mind's power. Here

thought, feeling, knowledge, and imagination are of no value.

* *

In this world of Suchness there is neither self nor other-than-self. To

come directly into harmony with this reality just simply say when

doubts arise, "Not two." In this "not two" nothing is

separate, nothing is excluded. No matter when or where, enlightenment

means entering this truth. And this truth is beyond extension or

diminution in time or space; in it a single thought is then thousand

years.

*

Emptiness here, Emptiness there, but the infinite universe stands

always before our eyes. Infinitely large and infinitely small; no

difference, for definitions have vanished and no boundaries are seen.

So too with Being and non-Being. Don't waste time in doubts and

arguments that have nothing to do with this. One thing, all things:

move among and intermingle, without distinction. To live in this

realization is to be without anxiety about non-perfection. To live in

this faith is the road to non-duality, because the non-dual is one with

the trusting mind.

Words! The Way is beyond language, for in it there is no yesterday no

tomorrow no today.

Om namo bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

Dragan

Michael Bindel wrote:

Dear Dragan

thank you for your INPUT

as i realized we have always to be on guard not

to follow our patterns in everything.....

only the SELF IS

yours sincerely

michael

August 14, 2007

Dear Dragan

just read your email - and immedeately felt your TRUTH in your comment (do not be attached to even this ONE) a n d understood the remedy effect of it for this person.

Being attached to ONE in the way "i" am means "suffering", as long as "i" expect others to understand it.

Letting go this kind of attachment while knowing (being) at the same "time" IT suffering ends....

thank you for your contribution as remedy.....

:-)))

till later

michael

-

Dragan Pavlovic

Tuesday, August 14, 2007 3:10 AM

Re: thank you

Hi Michael, Sometimes I am very confused. I don't know what your comments (of this group) means. I know that you have that feeling that only God is, or the Self is. So, Michael, dive into it! I don't have any thoughts about the Self, or anything like that. I am simply calm as much as I could. I do vichara. I don't use quotes, unless I have to explain something. Compare the last mail of Richard's and of Harsha moderator. These two mails are different than the other mails. (Your personal mail was the same, it was from your heart. The rest were only empty talk.) These two people gave me a grown, personal reply. They offered me their inner world. Without any preaching. Because we are all more than qualified for Ramana's teaching, so we don't need to repeat some things as parrots. Harsha moderator told me HIS story. This path is strictly personal, subjective, although it is impersonal by its nature. I cite Ramana only when he can say something better than me, so he says that vichara is so efficient, because there is no object, just subject in it. Harsha moderator offered me himself, without any veils, that is the mail which deserves to be respected. The same is with Richard. Read his mail, his reply to mine. The last one. It is a personal story. If I start preaching, please, kill me. : ) My mails are like Richard's and Moderator's. I give you (to the whole group) my insights, I give you myself. And you felt it. All of you. Even some of you who wanted to preach. Not to say something creative, to compare experiences, or some deeper knowledge, but they just used the theory. It seems that I have no other choice but to give you Sosan. Increase the font (I didn't want that my mail be too long) and read it. Zen is a remedy against any preaching. For you Michael: "Although all dualities come from the One, do not be attached even to this One". For Richard: see the other bold and underlined part: "Not two". I like this part very much, a real advaita. This is the proof that all impersonal paths are form the same family, with the same conclusions.

Hsin Hsin Ming:

The Book of Nothing

by Hsin Hsin Ming - verses on the faith mind of Sengstan (Sosan) 3rd Zen PatriarchThe Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent everything becomes clear and undisguised. Make the smallest distinction, however, and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. If you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against. The struggle of what one likes and what one dislikes is the disease of the mind.*When the deep meaning of things is not understood the mind's essential peace is disturbed to no avail. The way is perfect like vast space where nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess. Indeed, it is due to our choosing to accept or reject that we do not see the true nature of things. Live neither in the entanglements of outer things, nor in inner feelings of emptiness. Be serene without striving activity in the oneness of things and such erroneous views will disappear by themselves. When you try to stop activity to achieve passivity your very effort fills you with activity. As long as you remain in one extreme or the other you will never know Oneness. Those who do not live in the single Way fail in both activity and passivity, assertion and denial.* *To deny the reality of things is to miss their reality; to assert the emptiness of things is to miss their reality. The more you talk and think about it, the further astray you wander from the truth. Stop talking and thinking and there is nothing you will not be able to know.* * *To return to the root is to find the meaning, but to pursue appearances is to miss the source. At the moment of inner enlightenment there is a going beyond appearance and emptiness. The changes that appear to occur in the empty world we call real only because of our ignorance. Do not search for the truth; only cease to hold opinions. Do not remain in the dualistic state; avoid such pursuits carefully. If there is a trace of this and that, the right and wrong, the Mind-essence will be lost in confusion. Although all dualities come from the One, do not be attached even to this One. When mind exists undisturbed in the Way, nothing in the world can offend, and when a thing can no longer offend it ceases to exist in the old way. When no discriminating thoughts arise, the old mind ceases to exist.* *When thought objects vanish, the thinking-subject vanishes, as when the mind vanishes, objects vanish. Things are objects because of the subject; the mind is such because of things. Understand the relativity of these two and the basic reality: the unity of emptiness. In this Emptiness the two are indistinguishable and each contains in itself the whole world. If you do not discriminate between coarse and fine you will no be tempted to prejudice and opinion.*To live in the Great Way is neither easy nor difficult, but those with limited views are fearful and irresolute: the faster they hurry, the slower they go, and clinging cannot be limited: even to be attached to the idea of enlightenment is to go astray. Just let things be in their own way and there will be neither coming nor going. Obey the nature of things (your own nature), and you will walk freely and undisturbed. When thought is in bondage the truth is hidden, for everything is murky and unclear, and the burdensome practice of judging brings annoyance and weariness. What benefit can be derived from distinctions and separations? If you wish to move in the One Way do not dislike even the world of senses and ideas. Indeed, to accept them fully is identical with true Enlightenment. The wise man strives for no goals but the foolish man fetters himself. There is one Dharma, truth, law, not many; distinctions arise from the clinging needs of the ignorant. To seek Mind with the discriminating mind is the greatest of all mistakes.* *Rest and unrest derive from illusion; with enlightenment there is no liking and disliking. All dualities come from ignorant inference. They are like dreams or flowers in the air; foolish try to grasp them. Gain and loss, right and wrong: such thoughts must finally be abolished at once. If the eye never sleeps, all dreams will naturally cease. If the mind makes no discriminations, the ten thousand things are as they are, of single essence. To understand the mystery of this One-essence is to be released from all entanglements. When all things are seen equally the timeless Self-essence is reached. No comparisons or analogies are possible in this causeless, relationless state.* * *Consider movement stationary and the stationary in motion, and both the state of movement and the state of rest disappear. When such dualities cease to exist Oneness itself cannot exist. To this ultimate finality no law or description applies. For the unified mind in accord with the Way all self-centered striving ceases. Doubts and irresolutions vanish and life in true faith is possible. With a single stroke we are freed from bondage; nothing clings to us and we hold nothing. All is empty, clear, self-illuminating, with no exertion of the mind's power. Here thought, feeling, knowledge, and imagination are of no value.* *In this world of Suchness there is neither self nor other-than-self. To come directly into harmony with this reality just simply say when doubts arise, "Not two." In this "not two" nothing is separate, nothing is excluded. No matter when or where, enlightenment means entering this truth. And this truth is beyond extension or diminution in time or space; in it a single thought is then thousand years.*Emptiness here, Emptiness there, but the infinite universe stands always before our eyes. Infinitely large and infinitely small; no difference, for definitions have vanished and no boundaries are seen. So too with Being and non-Being. Don't waste time in doubts and arguments that have nothing to do with this. One thing, all things: move among and intermingle, without distinction. To live in this realization is to be without anxiety about non-perfection. To live in this faith is the road to non-duality, because the non-dual is one with the trusting mind.Words! The Way is beyond language, for in it there is no yesterday no tomorrow no today. Om namo bhagavate Sri RamanayaDraganMichael Bindel wrote:

Dear Dragan

thank you for your INPUT

as i realized we have always to be on guard not to follow our patterns in everything.....

only the SELF IS

yours sincerely

michael

Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.17/951 - Release 13/08/2007 10.15