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LURKERS please feel free to post any veggie news to

the list. There's lots of great news to share out

there. For example, the article below could of been

posted by someone else. sunny- who wants to post 3

more news....

 

---

Paul McCartney exclusive interview from

http://www.viva.org.uk/

 

Just as nature hates a vacuum, so commentators

detest silence. Give

them no words to twist and no motives to doubt and

they have to invent

them. For 28 years, Linda was the half of the

McCartney marriage who

spoke out about the abuse of animals, who became a

voice for

vegetarianism and who condemned cruelty with

transparent honesty. What

was Paul thinking of all this time? Sneaking a quick

pork sausage, some

would have you believe.

 

To imagine that soul mates - who for 30 years

spent most days

together and every night bar one - could have such

fundamentally

different values is laughable. Caring about animals

wasn't just Linda's

thing - never has been. " Linda spoke for both of us,

in fact for all our

family. I want to reassure people that now she's

gone, the battle

doesn't stop. I will now try to step into her shoes

- me and the kids. "

 

It's difficult to imagine the aching void that

the death of someone

so close, so in tune with you, must leave behind but

Paul McCartney has

things to say and he wants to say them. He doesn't

speak of sorrow and

loss but about pride and continuity and commitment.

I've barely sat down

in his offices in Soho Square before the words come

tumbling out. It's

almost like he's been desperate to say them to

someone and once started

he doesn't want to stop, particularly for

questions... " I must finish my

point - God, I do go on a bit don't I? See, it

wasn't just Linda.

Trouble is I'm boring, she was much more succinct! "

 

Boring he isn't as he darts from one subject to

another but never

losing eye contact with me. The words 'my mate' and

'soul mate' keep

poignantly reappearing as he talks about Linda and

occasionally he

lapses into the present tense as if she was still

fighting alongside

him. Suddenly he gets back to the point - the same

point and he wants to

stress it again:

 

" Linda became the spokesperson largely because

she had the time

available. I'd be off making music somewhere but in

fact she was

speaking for both of us, for all our family. I

really worry that good

animal activists around the world might think that

we've lost a powerful

voice. Well, we have but my voice is there now and

I'm going to try to

use it. "

 

With the world's media pounding on his door

demanding to know what's

next, I'm fascinated as to why Paul has chosen Viva!

as his vehicle.

We're usually prefixed with the word 'radical'

simply because we tell it

like it is. (Why solid research, science and a good

dose of honesty

should be labelled radical, I don't know - on the

other hand, society is

now so deceived at all levels by bullshit and glitz

that perhaps I do

understand.)

 

The truth is that planet earth is running out of

time. Huge

environmental, human and animal catastrophes are

developing fast and

meat eating is at the heart of them. One by one Paul

touches on each -

land degradation, disappearing water, dying oceans,

habitat loss, the

squandering of world food resources and the

appalling cruelty of a

people in denial. He is well informed, concerned and

has a message to

pass on. There are other, softer options than Viva!

through which to do

it. Perhaps this is a measure of his concern - a

nailing of his colours

to the mast.

 

Out of all these global issues, what is it that

really motivates Paul

McCartney?

 

" It's always been and will always be compassion

for animals. That's

it! It's not the health thing, important though that

is. It's respect

for our fellow species. We're just another animal

yet we think we're so

clever, know so much but what have we done? We're

headed towards

disaster and won't even acknowledge it. From the

biggest to the smallest

we've beaten all the other species into submission.

Couldn't we be

magnanimous in victory? Couldn't we now say, 'Okay

guys, we've won, now

let's lighten up on these fellow species'. Isn't it

time to see if

there's anything they can teach us before we

obliterate the whole lot of

them and ourselves as well. "

 

And of course he's right. Evidence of the

disintegration of our life

support mechanisms isn't hard to find. It floods in

on an almost daily

basis - the United Nations, the World Health

Organisation, World Watch,

Oxfam and a hundred other concerned bodies providing

hard science in

support of their warnings. They make an inside page

of the broadsheets

for one day then disappear, as ephemeral as a May

fly.

 

Much more persistent and successful is the

knocking copy - ignorance

passed from one journalist to another like a baton

in a relay race, with

few ever bothering to check their claims. Typical is

a full page of

bigotry and spite by Mary Kenny which appeared in

the Express on Sunday

just days after Linda died. 'Why Paul should be made

to eat his words'

it was headlined with the explanatory strap,

'unfitting memorial - it is

dangerous to use the death of Linda McCartney to

promote vegetarianism'.

But obviously not to promote the career of Mary

Kenny! Kenny then set

out a series of warnings which have become a

journalistic mantra but

are, in fact, scientific nonsense. You've heard them

all before -

teenagers at risk of anorexia, iron deficiency, zinc

deficiency, other

nutrient deficiencies and uniquely, an increased

risk of cancer - 11

arrogant inaccuracies. What's the effect of years of

this snide sniping

by journalists?

 

" I think some of them are mad, I really think

they're mad. They've

been eating a little too much British beef. In the

sixties I used to

call them loveable rogues, now they've lost the

loveable tag and the

whole Diana thing shows that. There are a lot of

them who are not good

people. It's sad and itŒs in line with the very

laddish phase we're

going through.

 

" But I won't let them give me that whole 'bad

nutrition' thing. Look,

I've helped raise a family of four kids and they

couldn't be healthier.

My son James is a big surfer, fit and healthy and

he's a vegan. So far

he's the only one in our family who is a vegan and

he's telling us all

that we should be vegan, too. He's right and we know

he's right but

we're just a little slow in getting round to it.

He's cool! I know

there's now a whole heap of science to show that

vegetarians and vegans

are healthier and live longer. "

 

And there is! One by one the world's health

advisory bodies - World

Health Organisation, British Medical Association,

American Dietetic

Association ­ have adopted a unanimous position.

They are now quite

clear that vegetarians suffer less from all the

degenerative diseases -

coronary heart disease, high blood pressure,

atherosclerosis (blocked

arteries), strokes, diabetes, obesity, most cancers,

gall bladder and

kidney diseases among them. Just as importantly,

they say, vegetarian

diets can lower cholesterol levels and stop coronary

artery disease.

They're also clear about the reasons: " Vegetarian

diets offer disease

protection benefits because of their lower saturated

fat, cholesterol

and animal protein content and higher concentrations

of folate and

antioxidants such as vitamins A, C and E. " (American

Dietetic

Association.)

 

When you stick some percentages on the risk

reduction it starts to

look pretty astounding - 25-50 per cent for heart

disease and cancer,

25-33 per cent for hypertension, 40-90 per cent for

diabetes, 75 per

cent for gall bladder disease. So why are we still

having to fight to

defend vegetarianism?

 

" The meat industry is big, it's powerful and

governments like power,

it's where their support comes from. We've seen it

with the tobacco

industry. When I see a thousand sheep in a field I

know, before he's

done anything, the farmer has made £60,000 or

whatever it is. It's

crazy. We're subsidising a cruel industry that does

a heap of damage.

Can anyone explain that to me? No one else gets that

treatment. I'd love

it if they gave me £20 for every record I make

whether I sell it or not,

or if you got £20 for every copy of Viva!Life.

Subsidies have got to go

and then the red meat industry will start to

collapse - then you'll see

the world's biggest outcry.

 

" We're all paying for it, even veggies' tax money

goes into it. The

meat industry in Britain gets £20 million a year

just to advertise meat

with this 'recipe for love' nonsense - probably ten

times that amount if

you include all the individual companies. They're

all saying meat is

good, meat is natural, meat is necessary. I'd love

to see Linda's food

get some government money or for you to get some for

your campaigns. But

we're not going to so we've got to communicate, talk

to people and

support organisations like Viva!. It reminds me of

the cruise missile

thing at Greenham Common. They were laughed at but

they did it - they

got the job done. I often said to Linda, 'This idea

of ours is either

right or wrong - and I know it's right'. Yeah, the

farmers must be

worried, they created the problems not us. "

 

And still are creating problems! On the day of

Linda's memorial

service I was secretly filming conditions inside

intensive pig units. I

drove down from Yorkshire to London and arrived only

just in time.

Perfume from a host of flowers filled the church of

St Martin¹s in the

Field and the voices of the students from the

Liverpool School of

Performing Arts were so beautiful they made me cry.

But still in my

nostrils was the overpowering stench of ammonia and

faeces from the most

appallingly barren and overcrowded conditions in

which thousands of

bright and intelligent animals are forced to live.

Still in my ears were

their screams as they clambered over each other,

pleading to be let out.

 

Everywhere we pointed the camera we saw diseased,

dead and dying

animals. In every enclosure there were the products

of brutal neglect

and indifference - broken legs, abscesses half the

size of a football,

ruptured stomachs, animals coughing from pneumonia,

others panting from

meningitis, deep cuts and lacerations from the

perforated metal on which

they have to live. These were approved units which

supply our

supermarkets. The contrast with the interior of the

church was profound

but it was a potent reminder of why we were gathered

together

celebrating the life of someone who cared.

 

With real irony, on the day I interviewed Paul,

the government

announced it was to launch a special pork promotion.

And the theme? Buy

British because of our superb animal welfare

standards!

 

" I think it's very, very sad and belittling for

us. It's something

that says a lot about us. I see the future of the

planet as a clear

choice - between doing that sort of thing to animals

or not doing it.

There's a sort of loathing among a lot of farmers

for what is actually

giving them a living. But it's the fact that it's

encouraged and

everyone pretends it's all okay. It's easier than

doing something about

it.

 

" We can't go on cramming creatures into battery

cages, broiler sheds,

turkey sheds and so on. Where's the compassion? What

the hell's so wrong

about compassion? What's so bad about it? Why should

we have to keep on

brutalising ourselves?

 

" At San Francisco University, they're planning to

bombard monkeys

with 145 decibels of sound which will make them deaf

and they say it's

okay because they're anaesthetised first. And it's

all to prove that you

shouldn't listen to loud music or stand under a jet

'plane. Well we know

that anyway.

 

" I watched something on the telly where they had

severed the spinal

cord of dogs and cats and they were walking around

on their front legs,

dragging their back halves behind them on the floor

of the lab. These

are quadrupeds, we're bipeds and it's a nonsense to

think you can learn

about the human spine by disabling cats and dogs. I

defy anyone to look

at this footage and not be sickened. These animals

don't have the choice

and they don't have the voice.

 

" It became very difficult when Linda died because

I said I would

support cancer charities and animal rights groups

wrote to me pointing

out that many were heavily into vivisection - and

it's true. A doctor we

knew out in America just admitted it as a matter of

fact, innocently,

like 'well sure we do'. What he doesn't realise is

that he won't get a

donation out of me for that very fact. It's like

having Beagles smoke

for us, we don't need that, we've outlived that

period. There are better

alternatives but you're not allowed to challenge the

status quo. It's

the same with agriculture. "

 

The fast flow of words and emotions begins to

slow as Paul McCartney

becomes more considered, piecing beliefs together,

connecting one

complex series of issues with another.

 

" Someone said that 90 per cent of land in Britain

is used to feed

animals. That's another crazy thing - so

inefficient! You can feed ten

times the number of people on the food they give to

animals. There's so

many animals, there's not enough land any more and

everything's swamped

with pesticides and fertilisers - fodder, fruit,

veg, the lot - to

increase output. It's destroying just about

everything - topsoil,

wildlife, water, birds. If everyone went veggie we'd

need only about

half the amount of land and we could have real

forests and wild places

again. But the RSPB still won't say to people, 'if

you want to save the

birds, stop eating meat', because they think it's

unacceptable.

 

" My place is now organic. It wasn't and it took

three years to get

worms back in the soil. Then every year we saw more

birds come back.

When I was a kid you could eat a raw carrot safely

but now you've got to

wonder whether it's a got a coat of poison on it.

One of the greatest

ongoing experiments on humankind, they reckon, is

what we shove in our

gobs. It's never worked out, you just shove it in ­

a Mars bar, a

burger, a milkshake and you wonder why you have a

heart attack! "

 

And where does genetically modified food come

into all this in Paul's

world perspective?

 

" People are trying to avoid modified soya and

quite right. But the

biggest user of soya - about 90 per cent - is the

meat industry as

livestock feed. Vegetarian products that may contain

soya will have to

be labelled but meat, which comes from animals fed

on it, doesn't have

to be labelled. This is a lovely little loophole

that the meat industry

is going to exploit and I think people should be

aware of it. There's so

many things people aren't aware of.

 

" Livestock farming is one of the biggest

destroyers of the planet.

When you see the Amazon being cut down for hamburger

cattle, that's

pretty obvious. What isn't so obvious is the drying

up of the water

table and rivers in the US and elsewhere. Animals

use up huge amounts of

water and there are billions of them. And it's all

done in the name of

something that benefits humans when in fact it's the

opposite. It's all

about attitudes, no one thinks they're the one who

has to change. Take

Prince PhilipŠ "

 

There's an exchange of glances between Paul and

his publicist. 'Are

you certain you want to say this?' ask the eyes.

Paul's return glance

says 'for sure'. Sir Paul McCartney, Knight of the

Realm, is about to

have a go at the Realm. " Linda was the ballsiest

woman, a very strong

lady and she once took him on and that was a nice

little moment. Because

she was American she talked to him just like he was

a bloke, not all

reverent like the British do. She said: 'You're the

head of a worldwide

wildlife organisation, how can you go out shooting

birds?' 'Are you

vegetarian?', he asked, trying to catch us out. "

 

Paul's mock posh accent doesn't shed the

Liverpudlian entirely.

" 'YEAH', we both answered. President of a wildlife

organisation shooting

birds, that's hypocrisy. It's not even sport. They

choose a bird that

doesn't even fly well, a pheasant. Let's see him try

and shoot swallows,

they're not so easy to catch. "

 

No Don Quixote is Paul McCartney, tilting at

windmills, but someone

who has decided to tackle head on some of the most

intractable problems

facing the world, mostly out of sheer instinct.

 

" I'm not saying all of what I think is

watertight, this is just a

feeling. Don't blame me if I don't know exactly how

many cows are

slaughtered or exactly how long it takes one of them

to die. I don't

know all the facts but I can get the facts. For me

this is about the

total lack of respect for animals and for the planet

and that we can't

go on doing what we're doing forever.

 

" Eventually, there's got to be change. If you can

feed ten times the

number of people by not passing food through animals

first and then

killing them, that's got to make people think. Even

if you don't care

about animals, that's a highly efficient economic

argument and even

McDonalds likes efficiency.

 

" As it is, China is being sold factory farming in

a big way and India

is following, being raped of its principles. As some

sensible lady

Indian minister said on telly: 'We're entering the

hole that you're

starting to climb out of'. It's sucking in the

world's supplies of grain

and soya which are needed for people. It's costing

lives. That's why

we've got to get our message out there. We're part

of that Western

machine. If we don't, the only message they're going

to hear is

McDonalds'. There's got to be more people like us or

there's not going

to be a world for any of us, McDonalds included. "

 

I don't know if Paul realises it but he is

echoing almost exactly the

views of the World Health Organisation, which in

1991 called for a

complete reversal of the West's agricultural

policies. Their message was

unequivocal - an end to the promotion of meat and

dairy products, an end

to factory farming and better use of land by growing

crops for people

not animals. It also warned of dire consequences if

we continued to

influence the developing world's agriculture. The

report was interpreted

by the Daily Mail as a call for global vegetarianism

- and it was right.

But what's happened? Exactly the opposite and the

report has disappeared

without trace.

 

We all have more or less the same access to

information so why are

some people inspired to act and others aren't? How

did it start for Paul

and Linda? The sudden connection between lambs

gambolling outside the

window on their farm in Scotland and leg of lamb on

their plate is now

pretty well known. But whose idea was it?

 

" It was Linda's memory that it was me who said we

should try going

vegetarian. Loving animals so much, she wasn't going

to say no. To be

honest I can't remember who said it but she credits

me with it. She was

a very gracious person.

 

" I think the deciding factor for us was the love

of animals - just

simple compassion. We had very different upbringings

but we talked about

our childhoods, the kind of thing you talk to your

mate about and

discovered we were very much the same. Linda was

brought up in Scarsdale

and would go to this open space in the posh area

where she lived. There

was a little stream running through it and no one

ever went down there

but Linda. She'd take friends and show them things,

like lifting a rock

with a salamander underneath it.

 

" For me it was tadpoles and newts on the other

side of the world. I'd

wander around the outskirts of Speke on my own with

the Observer's Book

of Birds. So we have this lovely image of she and I

at about the same

age, around 12 or so, both loving nature both doing

similar things. But

that wasn't what attracted us to each other - she

was a photographer and

I was a musician and it was more on that level. We

didn't even realise

it at first but the more we got to know each other

the more apparent it

became that we had this deep connection which was

animals. Neither of us

had talked about it before. I hadn't in the Beatles

and she hadn't as a

photographer.

 

" It influenced so much of our lives later on.

When I had a quiet day,

I would go out into the woods and clear a new trail

through the trees -

that was one of my joys. Then we would go out on our

horses together and

I would say, as a surprise, 'Let's ride down there'

and she'd get so

excited. But it was also great for the badgers and

foxes and rabbits who

use these paths of mine and that feels nice.

 

" She was very passionate about animals and would

go to any lengths to

help them. She wasn't a business woman really, not

at all. She was free

spirited - very free and easy and not wanting to get

hooked into

anything. Then one day I almost saw a light bulb go

off over her head -

ding - 'If I could save one animal!'. And that's

where the food idea

came from.

 

" During the live exports demonstrations the

rationale for starting

the food became so clear. I heard someone saying 'We

want them on the

hook not the hoof' and I couldn't believe it. I

asked Carla (Lane) if

they were veggie and she said that a lot of them

weren't. It seemed

hypocritical to me. Like the RSPCA man on TV

following a lorry full of

animals through Europe. He kept saying 'Oooh, I

could do with a pork

pie!' Did he really have to say that? What was his

game - trying to make

out he was just like everyone else, not a crank.

Again, hypocritical. We

wanted it to be easy for them to go veggie, hence

the meat substitute

foods. We wanted to convert meat eaters.

 

" It was suggested we should call them Paul

McCartney foods but that

sounded too Beatley, it didn't ring true. So it was

Linda McCartney,

mother and cook. So many women subsequently came up

to Linda and thanked

her, saying they wouldn't have known what to feed

their daughters when

they went veggie without her stuff in the freezer.

That was the big

thing, Linda made vegetarianism mainstream. The

motivation wasn't money

or fame it was 'If I could just save one animal!'.

 

" We're going to continue with the foods. As we go

into the new

century everyone is looking for new ideas, good

ideas. I see

vegetarianism as the best idea about. In fact it's

not a new idea - it's

a very old idea - but it's a new one for our Western

outlook. And if the

veggie thing takes hold and all these ideas click in

- no animal

cruelty, no fur, no animal experimentation - then

there really is some

sort of hope for mankind. Otherwise, forget it. "

 

Paul's secretary comes in for the second time to

remind him that it's

time to go. But I can sense that we're at the end

now, anyway. I'm aware

that I've just interviewed someone who started life

as a Liverpool

working class lad but who was a legend by the time I

was born. Through

sheer talent, he has broken just about every record

in the musical hall

of fame. Without actually asking for it, he has been

handed the cloak of

respectability given to few popular musicians; has

been presented with

an entrance ticket to the establishment - if not to

the innermost circle

then certainly the outer courtyard. And I'm also

aware that in the

preceding hour he has, bit by bit, hacked away at

some of the principal

props which support that establishment.

 

Never really the centre of controversy, he now

appears to have taken

a calculated decision to court it. Perhaps when

you've been confronted

by the sad truths which have faced Paul McCartney in

recent months, you

make honest judgements about what matters and what

doesn't. He comes

back to where he started.

 

" I'm doing this interview so all the good people

in the world will

know that I'm going to be as active as Linda -

people like the

Australian groups fighting with Viva! to save the

kangaroo. It's just

that until recently, I had the luxury of Linda, the

world's greatest

luxury, the world's greatest soul mate who took on

the role for me - the

role of saving animals. It was a long time ago that

Linda said, 'If I

can save just one animal!'. We were able to say to

her, 'Hey babe,

you've saved so many - millions of them, miles and

miles and miles of

animals.' "

 

Paul and Linda McCartney have four children -

Heather, Mary, Stella

and James.

 

 

 

- Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup

http://fifaworldcup.

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