Chronicle Letter to the Editor claiming vegetarians live shorter lives.

[Guest guest]

Thanks to Alka, Jack and others who responded to my query.

Perhaps the Chronicle printed this letter simply because it *was* absurd,

thus prompting Bay Area veggies to fight back with excellent statistics and

sources. Now is the perfect time to send the Chronicle intelligent letters

based on established data.

 

 

 

> " Chandna, Alka " <alka.chandna

> Mon, 24 Jun 2002 22:11:40 +0200

> " 'simone spearman' " <pohevol,

> RE: [sFBAVeg] Chronicle " Letter to the Editor " claiming vegetaria ns

> live " shorter lives. "

>

> Hello Simone & other friends,

>

> Gosh, Simone, it really seems to me that Mr. McGurrin is absolutely talking

> out of his posterior. Plenty of studies done by the Seventh Day Adventists,

> as well as the Oxford Vegetarian Study and the China Study indicate that

> vegetarians live longer than their meat-eating friends. The work of the

> Framingham Heart Study, which tracked generations of individuals and

> documented that no person with a blood cholesterol level less than 150

> suffered from a heart attack, further props up our claim since the average

> blood cholesterol level of a vegan is around 125. If we're not dying of

> heart attacks (which kill about half the U.S. population), what are we dying

> of? Protein deficiency? Coupled with very solid studies done on the other

> diseases of affluence - stroke, cancer, diabetes, etc. - it's absolutely

> clear that McGurrin is absolutely out in left field.

>

> In addition to Jack's list of athletes, there's Martina Navritalova (tennis

> champ), Andreas Cahling (Mr. International Bodybuilder), Billie Jean King

> (tennis champ). Nobel Prizes: Isaac Bashevis Singer, Alice Walker & George

> Bernard Shaw won the Nobel Prize for literature; Albert Schweitzer won the

> prize for his work as a missionary surgeon; Albert Einstein (who sang the

> praises of the veggie diet) won the Nobel Prize for Physics;

> These folks didn't win a Nobel Prize, but I think the general consensus is

> that they added something to the collective good: Mahatma Gandhi, Dr. John

> Harvey Kellogg, Pythagorus, Leonardo Di Vinci, P.B. Shelley, Leo Tolstoy,

> etcetera.

>

> Thanks, Simone, for alerting us to McGurrin's exercise in absurdity. Time to

> write letters (letters - 200 words or shorter).

>

> Cheers,

> Alka

>

>

> simone spearman [pohevol]

> Monday, June 24, 2002 12:36 PM

>

> [sFBAVeg] Chronicle " Letter to the Editor " claiming vegetarians

> live " shorter lives. "

>

>

> Does anyone know to what article Mr. McGurrin is referring? I searched the

> Chronicle (and SFGate) archives and couldn't find anything about this study.

>

> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2002/06/22/ED

> 121623.DTL

>

>

> QUESTIONS FOR VEGANS

>

> Editor -- So, we now know that vegetarians live shorter lives than their

> meat-eating friends. What I want to know is this: Has a vegetarian ever set

> a world record in a track and field event? Has a vegetarian ever won a Nobel

> prize?

>

> MARTIN PETER McGURRIN

>

> Arcata

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have one footnote and two questions inspired by this discussion:

 

The footnote: I read in some newspaper, probably the Chron, at least five or

six years ago that vegans generally have cholesterol levels below 150 and, thus,

have a very low incidence of heart disease. However, for unknown reasons,

probably just a statistical fluke, people with cholesterol levels below 150 are

more likely to die violently, such as in robberies or plane crashes. Go figure!

 

The questions: I have also read that a low-fat vegan diet could lead to a

longer than average life span. But I've always argued to friends who scoffed at

the value of living to 96 instead of 94, that one should become a vegan, not for

longevity, but to increase the quality of life for the time one has. The idea

is that, even if a vegan and a meathead live the same number of years, the vegan

is more likely to live a healthier and more active life until the end. Does

anyone know of any statistics (including sources) to back-up this argument? (A

good lawyer never lets the facts get in the way of a good argument!) Also, does

anyone know whether any such evidence has been correlated with the amount of

exercise that the studied groups received? There's been a lot in the media for

many years, and again lately, about the importance of exercise in maintaining

good health irrespective of diet.

-

Chandna, Alka

'simone spearman' ;

Monday, June 24, 2002 1:11 PM

RE: [sFBAVeg] Chronicle " Letter to the Editor " claiming vegetarians

live " shorter lives. "

 

 

Hello Simone & other friends,

 

Gosh, Simone, it really seems to me that Mr. McGurrin is absolutely talking

out of his posterior. Plenty of studies done by the Seventh Day Adventists,

as well as the Oxford Vegetarian Study and the China Study indicate that

vegetarians live longer than their meat-eating friends. The work of the

Framingham Heart Study, which tracked generations of individuals and

documented that no person with a blood cholesterol level less than 150

suffered from a heart attack, further props up our claim since the average

blood cholesterol level of a vegan is around 125. If we're not dying of

heart attacks (which kill about half the U.S. population), what are we dying

of? Protein deficiency? Coupled with very solid studies done on the other

diseases of affluence - stroke, cancer, diabetes, etc. - it's absolutely

clear that McGurrin is absolutely out in left field.

 

In addition to Jack's list of athletes, there's Martina Navritalova (tennis

champ), Andreas Cahling (Mr. International Bodybuilder), Billie Jean King

(tennis champ). Nobel Prizes: Isaac Bashevis Singer, Alice Walker & George

Bernard Shaw won the Nobel Prize for literature; Albert Schweitzer won the

prize for his work as a missionary surgeon; Albert Einstein (who sang the

praises of the veggie diet) won the Nobel Prize for Physics;

These folks didn't win a Nobel Prize, but I think the general consensus is

that they added something to the collective good: Mahatma Gandhi, Dr. John

Harvey Kellogg, Pythagorus, Leonardo Di Vinci, P.B. Shelley, Leo Tolstoy,

etcetera.

 

Thanks, Simone, for alerting us to McGurrin's exercise in absurdity. Time to

write letters (letters - 200 words or shorter).

 

Cheers,

Alka

 

simone spearman [pohevol]

Monday, June 24, 2002 12:36 PM

[sFBAVeg] Chronicle " Letter to the Editor " claiming vegetarians

live " shorter lives. "

 

 

Does anyone know to what article Mr. McGurrin is referring? I searched the

Chronicle (and SFGate) archives and couldn't find anything about this study.

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2002/06/22/ED

121623.DTL

 

 

QUESTIONS FOR VEGANS

 

Editor -- So, we now know that vegetarians live shorter lives than their

meat-eating friends. What I want to know is this: Has a vegetarian ever set

a world record in a track and field event? Has a vegetarian ever won a Nobel

prize?

 

MARTIN PETER McGURRIN

 

Arcata

 

 

[Guest guest]

Pete,

 

I'd be happy to address these questions, but they take some time and I don't

have much of any right now. : (

I could get to it next week. You could also check out the first few sections

of my article, Staying a Healthy Vegan at

 

http://www.veganoutreach.org/health/stayinghealthy.html

 

It doesn't directly answer all of your questions, but touches on many.

 

Jack

-

" Mr. Pete " <plcohon

" "

Monday, June 24, 2002 2:14 PM

Re: [sFBAVeg] Chronicle " Letter to the Editor " claiming vegetarians

live " shorter lives. "

 

 

> I have one footnote and two questions inspired by this discussion:

>

> The footnote: I read in some newspaper, probably the Chron, at least five

or six years ago that vegans generally have cholesterol levels below 150

and, thus, have a very low incidence of heart disease. However, for unknown

reasons, probably just a statistical fluke, people with cholesterol levels

below 150 are more likely to die violently, such as in robberies or plane

crashes. Go figure!

>

> The questions: I have also read that a low-fat vegan diet could lead to a

longer than average life span. But I've always argued to friends who

scoffed at the value of living to 96 instead of 94, that one should become a

vegan, not for longevity, but to increase the quality of life for the time

one has. The idea is that, even if a vegan and a meathead live the same

number of years, the vegan is more likely to live a healthier and more

active life until the end. Does anyone know of any statistics (including

sources) to back-up this argument? (A good lawyer never lets the facts get

in the way of a good argument!) Also, does anyone know whether any such

evidence has been correlated with the amount of exercise that the studied

groups received? There's been a lot in the media for many years, and again

lately, about the importance of exercise in maintaining good health

irrespective of diet.

> -

> Chandna, Alka

> 'simone spearman' ;

> Monday, June 24, 2002 1:11 PM

> RE: [sFBAVeg] Chronicle " Letter to the Editor " claiming

vegetarians live " shorter lives. "

>

>

> Hello Simone & other friends,

>

> Gosh, Simone, it really seems to me that Mr. McGurrin is absolutely

talking

> out of his posterior. Plenty of studies done by the Seventh Day

Adventists,

> as well as the Oxford Vegetarian Study and the China Study indicate that

> vegetarians live longer than their meat-eating friends. The work of the

> Framingham Heart Study, which tracked generations of individuals and

> documented that no person with a blood cholesterol level less than 150

> suffered from a heart attack, further props up our claim since the

average

> blood cholesterol level of a vegan is around 125. If we're not dying of

> heart attacks (which kill about half the U.S. population), what are we

dying

> of? Protein deficiency? Coupled with very solid studies done on the

other

> diseases of affluence - stroke, cancer, diabetes, etc. - it's absolutely

> clear that McGurrin is absolutely out in left field.

>

> In addition to Jack's list of athletes, there's Martina Navritalova

(tennis

> champ), Andreas Cahling (Mr. International Bodybuilder), Billie Jean

King

> (tennis champ). Nobel Prizes: Isaac Bashevis Singer, Alice Walker &

George

> Bernard Shaw won the Nobel Prize for literature; Albert Schweitzer won

the

> prize for his work as a missionary surgeon; Albert Einstein (who sang

the

> praises of the veggie diet) won the Nobel Prize for Physics;

> These folks didn't win a Nobel Prize, but I think the general consensus

is

> that they added something to the collective good: Mahatma Gandhi, Dr.

John

> Harvey Kellogg, Pythagorus, Leonardo Di Vinci, P.B. Shelley, Leo

Tolstoy,

> etcetera.

>

> Thanks, Simone, for alerting us to McGurrin's exercise in absurdity.

Time to

> write letters (letters - 200 words or shorter).

>

> Cheers,

> Alka

>

>

> simone spearman [pohevol]

> Monday, June 24, 2002 12:36 PM

>

> [sFBAVeg] Chronicle " Letter to the Editor " claiming vegetarians

> live " shorter lives. "

>

>

> Does anyone know to what article Mr. McGurrin is referring? I searched

the

> Chronicle (and SFGate) archives and couldn't find anything about this

study.

>

>

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2002/06/22/ED

> 121623.DTL

>

>

> QUESTIONS FOR VEGANS

>

> Editor -- So, we now know that vegetarians live shorter lives than their

> meat-eating friends. What I want to know is this: Has a vegetarian ever

set

> a world record in a track and field event? Has a vegetarian ever won a

Nobel

> prize?

>

> MARTIN PETER McGURRIN

>

> Arcata

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here's an MSNBC article that says " meat causes cancer " :

 

http://msnbc.com/news/737587.asp?0dm=N13PH & cp1=1

 

(dated April 12, I assume it is this year)

 

 

tony

[Guest guest]

Pete,

 

Sorry it took me so long to respond.

 

> I have one footnote and two questions inspired by this discussion:

>

> The footnote: I read in some newspaper, probably the Chron, at least five

or six years ago that vegans generally have cholesterol levels below 150

and, thus, have a very low incidence of heart disease. However, for unknown

reasons, probably just a statistical fluke, people with cholesterol levels

below 150 are more likely to die violently, such as in robberies or plane

crashes. Go figure!

 

I didn't write this, but had it in my notes on low cholesterol:

 

" Law MR, Thompson SG, Wald NJ. Assessing possible hazards of reducing

serum cholesterol. Br Med J 1994; 308: 373-9.

The authors conducted a systematic review of the 10 largest cohort

studies, two international studies, and 28 randomised trials, supplemented

by unpublished data, and found that: " There is no evidence that low or

reduced serum cholesterol concentration increases mortality from any cause

other than haemorrhagic stroke. This risk affects only those people with a

very low concentration (below about 5 mmol/litre [193 mg/dl]) and even in

these will be outweighed by the benefits from the low risk of ischaemic

heart disease. "

 

The abstract can be found here:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_ui

ds=8124144 & dopt=Abstract

 

(If you click on it and it doesn't work, paste it into your browser and make

sure there are no breaks, etc.)

 

As you can see from the abstract page, this study caused quite a bit of

people writing the BMJ with comments. I've never read them, though.

 

My understanding is that if you don't have high blood pressure, the risk of

hemorrhagic stroke is not increased. Hemorrhagic stroke is when you get a

stroke from bleeding in the brain rather than from blood clotting.

 

The largest group of vegans whose cholesterol levels have been tested, of

which I know, was in the Oxford Vegetarian Study and the vegans had an

average cholesteroal level of 166 mg/dl.

 

> The questions: I have also read that a low-fat vegan diet could lead to a

longer than average life span. But I've always argued to friends who

scoffed at the value of living to 96 instead of 94, that one should become a

vegan, not for longevity, but to increase the quality of life for the time

one has. The idea is that, even if a vegan and a meathead live the same

number of years, the vegan is more likely to live a healthier and more

active life until the end. Does anyone know of any statistics (including

sources) to back-up this argument?

 

I do not think there are any statistics that have measured this. Given that

in the Adventist Health Study, the vegetarians had lower rates of diabetes,

high blood pressure, obesity, and rheumatoid arthritis, it seems at least

somewhat likely that vegetarians may live a higher quality of life. There

were no measured diseases that took the place of these by appearing at

higher rates in the vegetarians.

 

> (A good lawyer never lets the facts get in the way of a good argument!)

Also, does anyone know whether any such evidence has been correlated with

the amount of exercise that the studied groups received? There's been a lot

in the media for many years, and again lately, about the importance of

exercise in maintaining good health irrespective of diet.

 

I think that exercise, non-smoking, and plenty of sleep are extremely

important factors in health. However, many of the recent studies on

vegetarians have tried either to match each vegetarian with another person

with a similar lifestyle (the Oxford Vegetarian Study) or tried to choose an

entire group with healthy habits (the Adventist studies) in order to control

for variables such as exercise. However, from what is reported on both of

these studies, exercise was not measured or nor adjusted for.

 

Jack

 

 

> -

> Chandna, Alka

> 'simone spearman' ;

> Monday, June 24, 2002 1:11 PM

> RE: [sFBAVeg] Chronicle " Letter to the Editor " claiming

vegetarians live " shorter lives. "

>

>

> Hello Simone & other friends,

>

> Gosh, Simone, it really seems to me that Mr. McGurrin is absolutely

talking

> out of his posterior. Plenty of studies done by the Seventh Day

Adventists,

> as well as the Oxford Vegetarian Study and the China Study indicate that

> vegetarians live longer than their meat-eating friends. The work of the

> Framingham Heart Study, which tracked generations of individuals and

> documented that no person with a blood cholesterol level less than 150

> suffered from a heart attack, further props up our claim since the

average

> blood cholesterol level of a vegan is around 125. If we're not dying of

> heart attacks (which kill about half the U.S. population), what are we

dying

> of? Protein deficiency? Coupled with very solid studies done on the

other

> diseases of affluence - stroke, cancer, diabetes, etc. - it's absolutely

> clear that McGurrin is absolutely out in left field.

>

> In addition to Jack's list of athletes, there's Martina Navritalova

(tennis

> champ), Andreas Cahling (Mr. International Bodybuilder), Billie Jean

King

> (tennis champ). Nobel Prizes: Isaac Bashevis Singer, Alice Walker &

George

> Bernard Shaw won the Nobel Prize for literature; Albert Schweitzer won

the

> prize for his work as a missionary surgeon; Albert Einstein (who sang

the

> praises of the veggie diet) won the Nobel Prize for Physics;

> These folks didn't win a Nobel Prize, but I think the general consensus

is

> that they added something to the collective good: Mahatma Gandhi, Dr.

John

> Harvey Kellogg, Pythagorus, Leonardo Di Vinci, P.B. Shelley, Leo

Tolstoy,

> etcetera.

>

> Thanks, Simone, for alerting us to McGurrin's exercise in absurdity.

Time to

> write letters (letters - 200 words or shorter).

>

> Cheers,

> Alka

>

>

> simone spearman [pohevol]

> Monday, June 24, 2002 12:36 PM

>

> [sFBAVeg] Chronicle " Letter to the Editor " claiming vegetarians

> live " shorter lives. "

>

>

> Does anyone know to what article Mr. McGurrin is referring? I searched

the

> Chronicle (and SFGate) archives and couldn't find anything about this

study.

>

>

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2002/06/22/ED

> 121623.DTL

>

>

> QUESTIONS FOR VEGANS

>

> Editor -- So, we now know that vegetarians live shorter lives than their

> meat-eating friends. What I want to know is this: Has a vegetarian ever

set

> a world record in a track and field event? Has a vegetarian ever won a

Nobel

> prize?

>

> MARTIN PETER McGURRIN

>

> Arcata

>

>

>