RE: dog murderers

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

 

> I would like to report a horrible event that took place this morning and

> request advice and help on how to proceed. I am hoping to strip the cops

in

> question of their badges and sue them.

 

Diana, I am very sorry and saddened to hear what happened to your

boyfriend's dog. I don't have any experience in these matters but maybe

the local SPCA/Humane Society, perhaps Animal Legal Defense Fund, can give

you some advice on how to proceed. I believe some of the Humane Societies

also offer grief counseling/support services (I know Peninsula HS does -

http://www.peninsulahumanesociety.org/services/loss.html)

 

The below statement is Diana's own opinion.

 

> Cops these days are so trigger-happy and can so easily get away with

killing

> individuals (humans--especially minorities, and non-humans alike). We

can't

> let them get away with this. Their first choice method of self-defense all

> too often is lethal. They are rogue killers in blue.

 

I realize Diana and her boyfriend are in a distressing situation, and they

have my sympathies. I want to note, however, that the above generalized

cop-bashing theme is *not* an appropriate topic for this list. For any

further discussions on this thread, please remain civil and constructive,

and keep it on topic. You can view the list charter at -

http://www.generationv.org/charter.htm The SFBAVeg list is open to, and

welcomes, animal rights oriented discussions. We just need to keep 'em

on-topic. Thanks all!

 

Cheers,

Tammy

SFBAVeg List Admin

[Guest guest]

Dear Diana,

 

In light of Diane Wipple's death, I have a tough time supporting your

decision to do this. The death of a pet is tragic. However, an animal

of the type you describe being on the street without supervision brings

up some pretty serious public safety issues. To you who know these

dogs, they seem minor. To someone who doesn't know them, it's very big.

 

I've been veggie for 21 years, so being sensitive to such issues is not

new to me. I say this reluctantly, but there's no animal alive that's

worth even one human's life ! ! ! (or a mauling for that matter.) In

the current climate of fear surrounding big, out of control dogs, their

owners probably have a greater responsibility than ever before.

 

It's too bad the dogs didn't stay with you and Aaron last night instead

of being locked away and lonely.

 

I do not fault that officer. If he'd used his pepper spray, I doubt the

sound of a spray can would have frightened the other dog away as easily

as hearing a gunshot. Once you get beyond the loss, you both might see

this a little differently.

 

I'm very sorry to hear of your loss,

 

Dave

 

 

 

diana marmorstein [dianabananam]

Friday, July 05, 2002 11:37 AM

 

Cc: copwatch

[sFBAVeg] dog murderers

 

 

Hello folks,

I would like to report a horrible event that took place this morning and

 

request advice and help on how to proceed. I am hoping to strip the cops

in

question of their badges and sue them.

My report follows:

 

July 5, 2002

~8 am

Oakland Police Officers D. Salcido (badge # 389, serial # 8213) and K.

Kaney

(badge # 399, serial # 8235) walked south on Outlook Ave., Oakland,

towards

Aaron's (my boyfriend's) house. (He had been at my house last night.)

----clipped----

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I empathize with the loss of your friends loved one (pet).

I am also pretty sure the cop did not just shoot the dog for " fun "

Rather he felt in danger.. (he knows the damage a police dog can do)

If the dog had been trained to stay at home..

or act passive.

I also have a hard time believing that someone the dog did not know..

would have broke in..

There are many bad cops..

But most cops are major dog lovers..

My well trained dog.. gets cops and others to cut me a lot of slack..

(impressing them that I am a responsible person for training my dog so well)

my dog is trained to only act aggressive when on guard (in my car or house

when I am not there).. (much like police dogs)

& at all other times he is sweet and totally non-threating..

he would respond if a stranger said.. down or sit..

He is also trained not to leave the house or from a down stay without me.

Pets like a child need to learn to not scare or provoke people.

Owners of a dog like any other weapon need to know how to protect others

fear of harm by it. Training is the best life insurance for a dog. If you

love them invest your time.. if you do not know how write me.. Jay

[Guest guest]

Dave O'Neal wrote:

 

> there's no animal alive that's

> worth even one human's life !

 

I disagree wholeheartedly.

 

> I do not fault that officer. If he'd used his

> pepper spray, I doubt the sound of a spray can would

> have frightened the other dog away as easily as

> hearing a gunshot. Once you get beyond the loss,

> you both might see this a little differently.

 

Did I to the right list? I thought this one

was for vegetarians. I guess it's inaccurate to assume

that most herbivores are animal advocates, as it's in

vogue to adopt a meat-free diet for health reasons as

of late, but I'm still surprised by such callous

attitudes as this. Perhaps the pepper spray might not

have frightened the other dog away JUST as easily --

but unless I read correctly, neither dog endangered

the officer at the time in any grave way. Placing

value on the life of another species is a pretty

haughty thing to do, especially when there's a mass of

research showing canines to be highly evolved, highly

emotional creatures. As for the pro-cop sentiments --

as someone who has been involved in various forms of

social justice activism and been jailed for acts that

were within my constitutional rights, I've certainly

witnessed enough injustice (and experienced quite a

bit) at the hands of the criminal justice system to

say that there are a lot of bad apples in the bunch --

more bad than good? Perhaps not, but let's not paint

the lot of police as saints just because mindless and

unquestioning patriotism (as opposed to a genuine

regard for the country's ecosystems, community, and

citizens, regardless of their socioecomonic strata) is

all the rage these days. When you've witnessed someone

being strip-searched six times before a bag of speed

miraculously appears on the seventh strip search (it

was planted there by the officer of the law), you're

going to feel a little skeptical (to say the least)

about the efficacy of our nation's penal system -- and

when you hear of stories such as this one, it only

serves to enforce said disillusion with its enforcers.

 

Erin McWilliams

 

 

 

 

 

Sign up for SBC Dial - First Month Free

http://sbc.

[Guest guest]

During the past 12 years of serving as a judge for government retirement

systems as part of my arbitration practice I've learned many things that I

did not learn when I read police reports daily as a public defender. Much

of my new knowledge has come from death certificates and medical files.

 

After considering both written and testimonial evidence, I've awarded

survivor benefits to the widows and orphans of police officers who gave

their lives to save the lives of others. I've awarded disability retirement

benefits to police officers who were so badly hurt while trying to protect

others, often the poorest of the poor, that they would never walk again.

I've become well acquainted with a now retired San Francisco police captain

who has been a strict vegetarian for at least the 12 years I've known him.

I've met several police officers who told me that they are not vegetarians

but they would never buy or eat veal and never buy or wear fur. I like to

think of them as pre-vegetarians.

 

Sure, there are a few rotten apples in every barrel. But it would be an

unfortunate error to paint all police officers with the wide brush of

stereotyping. These people are just that - people. They are human and

flawed, like the rest of us, but many if not most of them are decent folks

trying to do the right thing in situations where often there really is no

right thing to do.

 

I sympathize with those who will mourn the loss of Roman, the German

Shepherd. I also know what it means to lose a beloved animal companion.

But, in my opinion, blaming the police, either specifically or generally,

misses the point. The police officer who shot Roman was put in an

incredibly stressful and difficult position by the person who kicked in the

upstairs door through which the dogs got out into the street. I believe

that whoever kicked in that door is the responsible party for everything

that followed, both legally and morally.

 

If you wish to hold someone responsible for Roman's death I suggest that you

work with the police to find out who kicked in the door. Breaking and

entering is a crime. So is burglary. Since, as a result of those crimes, a

police officer felt himself under attack the police department should be

quite interested in helping you out. Good luck.

[Guest guest]

Seems like the cop made a mistake, which was unprofessional to say the very

least. A single warning shot into the ground would probably have been enough

to make BOTH dogs run away from them.

 

Once I had to confront an intruder in my home at 3am. He was obviously drunk

and had mistaken my home for his. Because I was confident to handle myself

(unarmed) if need be, I was not afraid of the situation. Later, I was

alarmed to learn how my associates and friends would have handled the

situation; if they had a gun nearby, they would have shot the guy without

asking questions. That is a sad commentary of life in the US.

 

 

tony