I used to be a vegetarian...

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

 

I talked to many people at our booth at We the Planet last week. While I

met many who are long-time vegetarians/vegans, or some who recently changed,

I also met some who said " I used to be vegetarian " . A couple of these folks

had been veg for many years, one person for 9 years, another for 14... This

is a significant amount of time.

 

When asked WHY they had started eating meat, sometimes they couldn't tell me

specifically. For one person, I distinctly recall an acupuncturist had

recommended it. For another, they had no reason and thanked me for asking

them the question.

 

As several people approached our exhibit and spoke to me about this, I don't

know if these were isolated cases, or part of a growing trend. I think this

is important to us, as a veggie group, to understand and to make our

outreach more effective.

 

Perhaps we need a new brochure.. " But you used to be vegetarian... "

 

If anyone has any information or experience with this, do share. If you

were at one time veg*n and then become non-veg, I'd like to understand why.

If you're not comfortable sharing your experience with the list, feel free

to write me privately.

 

Cheers,

Tammy

 

Join the vegan r/evolution!

http://www.generationV.org/

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

FREE vegan info kit:

http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/free-vsp.html

[Guest guest]

On 04/25/03, Tammy <govegan wrote:

 

> If anyone has any information or experience with this, do share. If you

> were at one time veg*n and then become non-veg, I'd like to understand why.

> If you're not comfortable sharing your experience with the list, feel free

> to write me privately.

 

for starters, i'm vegan, i have been for years, and i will never stop.

i haven't consumed meat for over 10 years, and i intend to keep it that

way.

 

as for the others, here are the reasons i've heard:

 

" i don't know, i was just hungry so i ate a hamburger. "

" my boyfriend / girlfriend eats meat, and it doesn't seem to so bad. "

" i'm on a new paleolithic diet. "

" well, i've decided that humans are naturally omnivores. "

" my chinese doctor says that i need meat because my pancreas is cold. "

" i got sick of being fussy about food. "

" i was feeling tired / sick / unhappy all the time. "

 

a friend of mine, once vegetarian, started eating bacon simply to be

ironic. much like how people are ironic about listening to bon jovi,

and eventually find themselves listening to nothing but hair metal

from the 1980s. i could never understand this. once she started on

bacon, her diet shifted completely to meat.

 

meat and cheese are associated with comfort foods that many people

enjoyed in their childhood. considering the current political climate,

i think people are trying to get back to home, mom, apple pie, and pot

roast. personally, i was raised on olive oil and fresh vegetables, so

i associate kraft mac & cheese with evil babysitters and daycare.

 

then there's the recent smear tactics against natural food, such as

the atkins diet and the anti-soy " research " . unfortunately, most

people don't know the difference between an article in USA today and

peer reviewed science, so needless to say, public perception about

what is healthy and what is not healthy is muddled.

 

i have my own conspiracy theories about how the current trend of war

and intolerance is linked with the growing acceptance of the atkins

diet, but that's another rant entirely.

 

--

 

steve simitzis : /sim' - i - jees/

pala : saturn5 productions

www.steve.org : 415.282.9979

hath the daemon spawn no fire?

[Guest guest]

oh yes, how could i forget my favorite:

 

" i read in some book / article that people of my blood type are

naturally supposed to eat meat. "

 

On 04/25/03, Steve Simitzis <steve wrote:

 

> " i don't know, i was just hungry so i ate a hamburger. "

> " my boyfriend / girlfriend eats meat, and it doesn't seem to so bad. "

> " i'm on a new paleolithic diet. "

> " well, i've decided that humans are naturally omnivores. "

> " my chinese doctor says that i need meat because my pancreas is cold. "

> " i got sick of being fussy about food. "

> " i was feeling tired / sick / unhappy all the time. "

 

--

 

steve simitzis : /sim' - i - jees/

pala : saturn5 productions

www.steve.org : 415.282.9979

hath the daemon spawn no fire?

[Guest guest]

I have been vegan for several years, and vegetarian for many years before

that. I started my journey in 1976. There were two times I went back to

meat......because I was living with a partner who didn't share my vegetarian

views, and only during the time I lived with them (few years).

 

I realize tho', that I wasn't vegetarian or vegan for the same reasons I am

now. Now, I would never go back, because I know the horrificly inhumane

lives animals are forced to lead before they are then inhumanely slaughtered

for " our " enjoyment; and I know the huge impact of industrial animal farming

on the environment. Many of us know the 3 main reasons for being vegan: 1)

health, 2) environment, 3) moral/spiritual

 

When I became vegetarian originally, it was for " health " reasons. That was

all I knew, and I knew very few vegetarians/vegans. My health wasn't a big

enough issue; I didn't have the larger reasons for committment. When

swayed by love, I buckled. My passions have shifted.

 

Additionally, I have heard more than one person say they went back to meat

because they weren't feeling healthy. I've also heard people complain that

it's to difficult to cook plant-based foods, when all they have to do is pop

a pork chop on the grill.

 

Personally, I am morally committed both to the well-being of humans & other

creatures on this planet, as well as the well-being of our planet.

Amazingly, I know a virtual plethora of environmentalists who eat meat-

ORGANIC, of course. Many seem to have come to understand the health reasons

for a plant-based diets, but many refuse to accept the knowledge. Some know

of the enviromental implications, but the moral/spiritual reasons are

probably the most likely to be subject to denial.

 

Obviously a much broader education campaign is needed.

 

This would be a great discussion topic at a speaker-led potluck.

My brief, and simplified thoughts.

Marcy

 

 

-

" Tammy " <govegan

" Bay Area Veg "

Friday, April 25, 2003 10:58 PM

[sFBAVeg] " I used to be a vegetarian... "

 

 

> Hi all,

>

> I talked to many people at our booth at We the Planet last week. While I

> met many who are long-time vegetarians/vegans, or some who recently

changed,

> I also met some who said " I used to be vegetarian " . A couple of these

folks

> had been veg for many years, one person for 9 years, another for 14...

This

> is a significant amount of time.

>

> When asked WHY they had started eating meat, sometimes they couldn't tell

me

> specifically. For one person, I distinctly recall an acupuncturist had

> recommended it. For another, they had no reason and thanked me for asking

> them the question.

>

> As several people approached our exhibit and spoke to me about this, I

don't

> know if these were isolated cases, or part of a growing trend. I think

this

> is important to us, as a veggie group, to understand and to make our

> outreach more effective.

>

> Perhaps we need a new brochure.. " But you used to be vegetarian... "

>

> If anyone has any information or experience with this, do share. If you

> were at one time veg*n and then become non-veg, I'd like to understand

why.

> If you're not comfortable sharing your experience with the list, feel free

> to write me privately.

>

> Cheers,

> Tammy

>

> Join the vegan r/evolution!

> http://www.generationV.org/

> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

> FREE vegan info kit:

> http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/free-vsp.html

BAY AREA VEGETARIANS (BAV) is a community group for veggies to network &

find support. Free

> membership and lots of free events :-) See below links for more veggie

info....

>

> *Next Vegan Food Party -- 5/3! See Event Calendar

http://www.bayareaveg.org/events.htm

> *Frequently Asked Questions: http://www.bayareaveg.org/faq.htm

> *SFBAVeg Mailing List Charter: http://www.bayareaveg.org/charter.htm

> *Be Active for Animals! http://www.freedom4animals.org/events.html

>

> Tell your friends to Be-A-Veg with Bay Area Veg!

> http://www.bayareaveg.org/join.htm

>

>

[Guest guest]

I too have met a frightening number of people who used to be vegetarian.

In my own experience it's been about a third of the non-veg total! A

pamphlet on the subject would be a great idea, but I'm not confident much

can be done for someone in that position.

 

I think former vegetarians are a special case: all of them have some sort

of experience with the diet, and many of them have exposure to health and

cruelty reasons supporting it. So while a lifelong carnivore might not

know what they're missing, and may not have thought about ethical and

health implications, someone who does know but doesn't care seems an

especially tough nut to crack.

 

--Bruce

 

> I talked to many people at our booth at We the Planet last week. While I

> met many who are long-time vegetarians/vegans, or some who

> recently changed,

> I also met some who said " I used to be vegetarian " . A couple of

> these folks

> had been veg for many years, one person for 9 years, another for

> 14... This

> is a significant amount of time.

[Guest guest]

Marcy, I appreciate all of your points and the last is especially

interesting to me. My partner works in the environmental field and only a

small fraction of the environmentalists I have met are vegetarian.

Personally I don't understand how an environmentalist could avoid either

the ethical or the environmental issues. It seems that the environmental

costs of animal production are huge and obvious, but it seems equally odd

to arbitrarily cut a huge part of the natural environment out one's

environmental ethos. Meaning I can't understand caring about one part of

the environment (a tree) while not caring about another (the animal sitting

in it). I have also met a lot of environmentalists who are hunters. Go

figure!

 

Lastly, I'd like to second the idea of this as a topic at a potluck!

 

--Bruce

 

 

> Personally, I am morally committed both to the well-being of

> humans & other

> creatures on this planet, as well as the well-being of our planet.

> Amazingly, I know a virtual plethora of environmentalists who eat meat-

> ORGANIC, of course. Many seem to have come to understand the

> health reasons

> for a plant-based diets, but many refuse to accept the

> knowledge. Some know

> of the enviromental implications, but the moral/spiritual reasons are

> probably the most likely to be subject to denial.

>

> Obviously a much broader education campaign is needed.

>

> This would be a great discussion topic at a speaker-led potluck.

> My brief, and simplified thoughts.

> Marcy

[Guest guest]

--- Tammy <govegan wrote:

> If anyone has any information or experience with

> this, do share. If you

> were at one time veg*n and then become non-veg, I'd

> like to understand why.

> If you're not comfortable sharing your experience

> with the list, feel free

> to write me privately.

>

> Cheers,

> Tammy

 

Thanks for raising this interesting question, Tammy.

It would be interesting to know if anyone has anything

approaching hard data on recidivism rates among vegans

and vegetarians.

 

I've met a few lapsed veg*ns in the nine years I've

been veg*n. The most cited reasons that I can recall

were health-related. Anemia or borderline anemia

tended to be a reason mentioned by pre-menopausal

women.

 

Another issue mentioned was a perceived lack of food

choices and alternatives for non-meat eating

individuals. While some of that could be attributed to

individual factors (e.g., lack of motivation or

knowledge of where to obtain alternative products and

of how to prepare them in pleasing ways), some of it

was undoubtedly structural. I heard this complaint

more frequently in my earlier days as a veg*n when

there were not so many food choices availble as there

are now. I also heard this complaint more often in

areas where there weren't as many market choices as we

have here in the Bay Area; it's not something I hear

much in 2003 in the Bay Area.

 

Having just listened to a copy of Michael Greger's

" Optimum Vegetarian Nutrition " , I was struck by the

myths that Greger mentioned in his talk regarding

vitamin B12, iron and calcium requirements for vegans.

I don't doubt that the people whom I spoke with were

sincere in noting their health problems, and I think

these people were sincere in wanting to do the right

thing and remain veg, but felt they couldn't do so

even though they wanted to. I suspect many of the

health-related concerns could have been resolved via

consultation with a knowledgeable physician like Dr.

Greger, though of course MDs with his expertise are in

short supply. The food variety concerns are being

addressed by more widespread demand for and

availability of delicious vegan products and methods

for preparing them.

 

I love the idea of a " I used to be veg*n, but... "

brochure. With more food choices available and our

knowledge of veg*n nutrition needs sharpening each

year, I think the recidivism rates could be curtailed.

 

 

FWIW,

 

TBN

 

Tor Neilands

[Guest guest]

I first became a lacto-ovo veggie when I was a college student in 1969

largely because my friends were doing it. It was the " hip " thing to do in

those days of acid trips, anti-Viet Nam war protests and Grateful Dead

concerts when Pigpen was still alive and in the band. I suppose I would

have painted myself green if it was the hip thing to do then. Five years

later, in 1974, when I was somewhat older and cared less about what my

friends were doing, two close veggie friends and I ended our veggie days on

a whim by going to a steak house after a trip to a planetarium. Clearly our

level of commitment was not very great.

 

Thirteen years later, in April of 1987, I again became a veggie and a vegan

four months thereafter. This time I've remained a vegan for 16 years (this

month) and I can't imagine ever going back to my former diet and lifestyle.

 

The major difference between the two experiences is a difference in

motivation. Unlike the first time around when I was trying to be like my

" hip " friends, my second conversion was based upon my introduction to

information about the ways in which animals are cruelly exploited by

humanity. That information, combined with my ethics, changed my

consciousness, gave me a strong motive to change my lifestyle and led to the

commitment to make that change longstanding and probably permanent.

 

I do have two friends who became vegans for ethical reasons, remained vegans

for many years and did revert to conventional diets. One did so to please

a new husband. The other did so after inheriting a fortune, becoming quite

decadent in general, (with massive drug abuse), and isolating himself.

 

Based upon the reversions made by my two friends it seems that a change back

to a conventional diet can have little to do with vegetarianism itself. It

might be motivated by other things going on in one's life that are greater

motivational factors or represent a greater commitment than one's diet.

Sometimes a reversion might occur because of a general change in

consciousness or mental state. The decision to revert might also be

effected by the ethics with which one was raised. After all, information

about the cruel treatment of other species will have little effect on those

humans who do not have an ethical problem with cruelty. It seems to come

down to a combination of ethics, motivation and commitment. I don't think

the organized veggie community can realistically do anything about people

who lack basic ethics, not even with the best leaflets.

 

However, based upon my own experience, I think the best way to motivate the

change to a veggie lifestyle is to continue doing what the animal rights

community has been doing for many years and is currently doing - educate

people about the cruel ways in which their food products are really acquired

and hope that they already have basic ethics. The vast majority of folks I

know who became veggies and vegans for ethical reason have not reverted to

conventional diets and I doubt that they will ever do so.

I think the best way to keep veggies is to support their level of commitment

by continuing the practices of the current veggie community. Doing things

together such as pot lucks, restaurant outings, comedy shows and whatever

else veggies might enjoy helps those who need support find the commitment to

continue their new lifestyles.

 

As far as the few we lose go, in my opinion, it's there loss.

[Guest guest]

I appreciate everyone's public & private comments on this interesting topic!

Thank you. In reading what everyone wrote, a number of interesting aspects

have been brought up.

 

Tor said: " It would be interesting to know if anyone has anything

approaching hard data on recidivism rates among vegans and vegetarians. "

 

I would be surprised if there is. It seems like most outreach is geared

towards educating folks to become new veg*ns, not the recidivist. And as

defintely there are limited resources, maybe it is best to concentrate on

the population that will yield the best results as far as number of veg*ns.

I think I agree on some level with Bruce's comment

 

" So while a lifelong carnivore might not know what they're missing, and may

not have thought about ethical and health implications, someone who does

know but doesn't care seems an especially tough nut to crack. "

 

because when I was talking with recidivists, I was not really sure what

approach to take. One woman commented to me that she knew how awful factory

farming was, and for that reason, she still refused to eat chickens because

they are treated the most inhumanely in the factory farming system.

 

When you think about it, food is the centerpiece or part of so many social

interactions. Does recidivism happen when people feel isolated or lack

support? Or is it merely because they lack motivation?

 

I do agree with Pete that ethically motivated veg*ns tend to stick with it.

Because we are externally motivated to help others, it is more of a

commitment. But often commitment, compassion, or ethos is not enough. You

really need to be stubborn!

 

Tammy