Earthlings vs. Food, Inc.

July 11, 2009

I think that seeing films like Earthlings or Meet your Meat etc have an impact on people. The hard part is getting people to watch them in the first place even if you give out DVDs for free.

Warren

In a message dated 7/11/09 7:12:12 AM, dan writes:

First, the story (apologies if you have seen it already).

Several years ago, someone I had met, a young man who had no strong feeling for animals or religious/philosoph Several years ago, someone I had met, a young man who had no strong feeling for animals or religious/philosoph<wbr>ical convictions in the direction of animal rights - the kind of person you would think would never be receptive to a vegetarian message - attended a Tony Robbins get-together of some sort, for the sole purpose of finding ways to make more money, at which a movie (or a clip from a movie) was shown,

Regardless of the details (how long the "conversion" lasted, whether it included abstention from seafood, etc.), the point that I was left with is the power of a movie, or a segment from a movie, to influence a viewer's eating habits.

I am grateful to another member of this discussion group (Will Beazley), for alerting me to the existence of a film entitled "Earthlings. I am grateful to another member of this discussion group (Will Beazley), for alerting me to the existence of a film enti

We all know that the world would be a better place if other living beings were not slaughtered for food and clothing or tortured in the name of entertainment and science. On this discussion list, for the most part, we are preaching to the converted. What about the vast majority who have yet to "see the light" in this regard?

I have had many dear non-vegetarian friends in life. Only a handful have I been able to influence in the direction of vegetarianism, despite years of friendship, numerous discussions and many visits to vegetarian restaurants. So the incident with the Tony Robbins seminar got me to thinking: Would it be possible to achieve converts to vegetarianism in significant numbers by giving out CDs of something along the lines of whatever it was that Tony Robbins showed at that meeting?

If so, what would the best film be? Would the average non-vegetarian take the time to watch "Earthlings" If so, what would the best film be? Would the average non-vegetarian take the time to

Dan Berman

**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823300x1201398714/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 & hmpgID=62 & bcd=JulystepsfooterNO62)

July 11, 2009

First, the story:

Several years ago, someone I had met, a young man who had no strong feeling for

animals or religious/philosophical convictions in the direction of animal rights

- the kind of person you would think would never be receptive to a vegetarian

message - attended a Tony Robbins get-together of some sort, for the sole

purpose of finding ways to make more money, at which a movie (or a clip from a

movie) was shown, relating to how meat was produced. As a result of that

experience, this individual immediately stopped eating meat.

Regardless of the details (how long the " conversion " lasted, whether it included

abstention from seafood, etc.), the point that I was left with is the power of a

movie, or a segment from a movie, to influence a viewer's eating habits.

I am grateful to someone on another discussion group for alerting me to the

existence of a film entitled " Earthlings. " I just watched it in its entirety on

YouTube. It is as thought-provoking as it is disturbing and I highly recommend

it.

We all know that the world would be a better place if other living beings were

not slaughtered for food and clothing or tortured in the name of entertainment

and science. On this discussion list, for the most part, we are preaching to the

converted. What about the vast majority who have yet to " see the light " in this

regard?

I have had many dear non-vegetarian friends in life. Only a handful have I been

able to influence in the direction of vegetarianism, despite years of

friendship, numerous discussions and many visits to vegetarian restaurants. So

the incident with the Tony Robbins seminar got me to thinking: Would it be

possible to achieve converts to vegetarianism in significant numbers by giving

out CDs of something along the lines of whatever it was that Tony Robbins showed

at that meeting?

If so, what would the best film be? Would the average non-vegetarian take the

time to watch " Earthlings " ? Would " Food, Inc. " be more effective in this

capacity? Or would it be something else?

Dan Berman

July 12, 2009

I agree with both statements by Warren. Some may call it cheating, but I have

been very successful getting people off meat passing out CDs of " Eating 3rd

Edition " because of the compelling meat:disease argument presented. I have been

totally unsuccessful with " Earthlings " because its reputation preceded its

distribution, and folks hold onto it, afraid to view it (or they watch a little

and then stop). There is a small segment on environmental impacts and cruelty to

animals in " Eating, " so the issues are not being ignored. My feeling is that if

folks convert to vegetarian or vegan for whatever reasons, they will then be

more open to being compassionate towards animals, since they are no longer

eating them.

Donna

, wgjii wrote:

>

> I think that seeing films like Earthlings or Meet your Meat etc have an

> impact on people. The hard part is getting people to watch them in the first

> place even if you give out DVDs for free.

>

> Warren

>

July 15, 2009

About Food Inc ...

My boyfriend Jeff and I saw it the first day it came out, a few weeks ago. It's

okay, but it really glosses over the real horror and hell that is factory

farming. They could have shown a lot more. Also, they try to say that factory

farming is bad, but things could be really good if all the meat, eggs, and dairy

were produced in a " sustainable " way by old-fashioned farmers. They make a big

deal about Stonybrook Farm's organic dairy products going mainstream and being

sold at Wal-Mart, as if dairy is something that people should be eating at all

in the first place. If we really care about protecting our natural resources,

why use all this water and energy to produce a product (dairy) that is not a

normal or healthy part of any adult mammal's life? Especially when that product

(dairy) is known to cause obesity and many other health problems for the adult

mammals who drink it? What a terrible misuse of our precious natural resouces

....

By promoting Stonybrook Farms organic dairy, the folks at Food Inc are obviously

missing the point. BIG TIME.

I wish they had spent more time covering the horrible treatment of farm workers,

including those in the dairy industry. I have seen so many videos and read so

much on this subject, I can't remember exactly what they had in the movie, but I

think they did cover some scenes regarding farm workers in a meat processing

plant. But check out this article on the problems faced by dairy workers.

2004 Article on Conditions for Dairy Farm Workers, from salon.com

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/08/27/dairy_farms/index.html

The argument talks about workers that have to wade waist-deep in dairy manure

every day! Two guys died when they drowned in the stuff! These are some very

powerful images that would have perfect for a movie called Food Inc. Sadly, if

I remember right, they don't say anything negative about the dairy industry in

the movie.

On a more positive side, the movie brought up some things that might make some

people think. A more memorable segment was the one focusing on the woman whose

son died of E. Coli poisoning, and how hard she has worked to get a law passed

that would require that all meat be tested so that this doesn't happen to any

child again, and how she and her mom have worked on this for years, and so far

the law HAS NOT PASSED.

It will be shocking to some people to find out that lawmakers resist even such a

simple safety check on meat that can save children's lives. All in the name of

preserving the most amount of profit possible for the greedy meat industry

tycoons.

But I felt it was a real shame that they got all these people to come to the

movie theater, people who have a hunger to be educated, and so they had this

opportunity to expose the real hell involved with meat, eggs, fish, and dairy

production. Especially in today's world of factory farms. Sadly, they stop far

short of showing people how bad things really are. I understand that a small

part of it is that they were not allowed access to the really bad chicken

houses, for example. If they couldn't get access, they couldn't access. But

they could have described it or shown pictures.

I felt very underwhelmed and disappointed by the movie.

Maybe the problem is, they only focused on only a few things: broiler chickens,

the E. Coli scare, some issues with farm workers, the sustainable small farmer,

and the problems with patents on GMO corn, etc. But they could have covered the

problems with pigs, egg-laying hens, dairy cows, beef cows, farmed fish, and

ocean-caught fish. What about the pigs who only see the light of day twice in

their lives, once when they are weaned from their mothers and sent to a

different shed, and finally when they are on their way to slaughter? What about

the huge amounts of pig waste that pollute our rivers? What about the driftnets

that kill dolphins, shrimp nets that kill turtles, etc? There were a lot more

persuasive images that I think they could have shown or discussed.

Check out this article on pig waste, it's sickening that we allow pigs to be

treated this way, and it's devastating for the environment.

Boss Hog

America's top pork producer churns out a sea of waste that has destroyed rivers,

killed millions of fish and generated one of the largest fines in EPA history.

Welcome to the dark side of the other white meat.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/12840743/porks_dirty_secret_the_natio\

ns_top_hog_producer_is_also_one_of_americas_worst_polluters/print

Read or skim through the article in the link above. These issues with pigs would

have been so important to include in the movie. Very eye-opening and

persuasive!!! But I don't think they mention this issue at all.

These are some of my thoughts about the movie. It was only so-so. For me, it

was frustrating that they left so much out. Especially when lot of the segments

in the movie were rather drawn out and longer that they needed to be. They

could have easily covered more topics. Perhaps the movie-makers were only

trying to show a few things to get people thinking, believing that the regular

moviegoer is not ready to hear the whole story. But I doubt that; it's a very

selective audience, the ones who are taking the time to go see Food Inc instead

of a regular Hollywood action movie or romance comedy, and PAYING MONEY to see

it. Because of that, I think they are already self-selected as people who are

ready to see the truth.

And if they went to this movie, thinking they were going to see the REAL DIRT on

how bad the food industry really is ... I think they would come away from the

movie feeling relieved that it's not nearly so bad as they had feared. Sure,

Big Industry and Politics are corrupt, and that's why things are so nasty on

factory farms, but there are nice farmers with " sustainable " farms; so the thing

to do is to try to buy from those guys instead. And if you're on the road like

Eric Schlosser and you need to make a pit stop to get a hamburger of

questionable origin at the local diner, so be it. If Eric Schlosser, the guy

who researched and wrote Fast Food Nation, isn't scared enough by all he has

seen to stop eating meat or to be choosy about where he's getting it from, why

should anyone else?

I think if they had shown more about the conditions in the pig sheds, in the

battery cages for egg-laying hens, in the veal crates for the dairy industry

(even " organic " dairy farms sell the male calves for veal meat), and in our

oceans, where an estimated one fourth of the worldwide fishery catch is

discarded, dead or dying, every year, I think more people would have come away

with a much sicker feeling in their stomachs.

All in all, the movie seemed like a wasted opportunity to really educate people.

But if it has helped some people to move away from meat and toward a more

vegetarian diet, then it IS doing a good thing. And if that's the case, if it

can be a small step that helps steer people toward better decisions, then of

course I would recommend it for meat-eaters. Any amount of raising awareness

certainly does help. I'm just disappointed that it doesn't seem as persuasive

as it could have been.

That's my 2 cents about Food Inc, for anyone who is interested.

Take care everybody,

Rachel D.

San Francisco, CA

July 16, 2009

thank you for the insightful synopsis, rachel!

i find it interesting that Food,Inc. actually dared to insinuate that factory farming could ever be replaced with "sustainable...old fashioned farmers."

the amount of animal product consumption (for "food" and otherwise) today would NEVER be satiated by the systems in place before factory farming.

i would think that impossibility would be most evident with even just a little awareness of the horrific levels of animal exploitation used these days for those ends.

when you say, "the movie seemed like a wasted opportunity to really educate people," i agree. although, i'm thinking the makers of Food,Inc. did not accidentally make the movie they made. i'd say their message was intentional. so much work and planning goes into making movies -- documentaries included -- i would find it hard to swallow that their overall message was the all too common, "it's okay to use and eat animals...as along as we do it nicely."

though my stance on animal exploitation must be apparent by now (unchanging, regardless of the "kindness" involved), i don't think it's just my perspective that makes these rather apparent flaws in these lines of "reasoning" and limited "compassion" so salient....

sometimes i wonder if the factory farmers are at least partially behind the whole Old McDonald Farm movement...considering the extraordinarily obvious impossibility of that transition taking effect without the simultaneous drastic decline of animal product consumption...with a hike in prices as to make them as near to unreasonable for the vast majority as to be completely unaffordable.

if the old-school farmer thing were to come back into place, perhaps it would be as it was in the dark ages...when only the royalty "feasted" on animals 3 times a day.

if i get around to it, i'll let you know myself. but, before i look it up, anyone know where the main funds came from to make this movie? Stonybrooks per chance?

~will

Rachel Donovan <racheldonovan Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:19:08 PM Re: Earthlings vs. Food, Inc.

About Food Inc ...My boyfriend Jeff and I saw it the first day it came out, a few weeks ago. It's okay, but it really glosses over the real horror and hell that is factory farming. They could have shown a lot more. Also, they try to say that factory farming is bad, but things could be really good if all the meat, eggs, and dairy were produced in a "sustainable" way by old-fashioned farmers. They make a big deal about Stonybrook Farm's organic dairy products going mainstream and being sold at Wal-Mart, as if dairy is something that people should be eating at all in the first place. If we really care about protecting our natural resources, why use all this water and energy to produce a product (dairy) that is not a normal or healthy part of any adult mammal's life? Especially when that product (dairy) is known to cause obesity and many other health problems for the adult mammals who drink it? What a terrible misuse of our precious natural

resouces ...By promoting Stonybrook Farms organic dairy, the folks at Food Inc are obviously missing the point. BIG TIME.I wish they had spent more time covering the horrible treatment of farm workers, including those in the dairy industry. I have seen so many videos and read so much on this subject, I can't remember exactly what they had in the movie, but I think they did cover some scenes regarding farm workers in a meat processing plant. But check out this article on the problems faced by dairy workers.2004 Article on Conditions for Dairy Farm Workers, from salon.comhttp://dir.salon. com/story/ news/feature/ 2004/08/27/ dairy_farms/ index.htmlThe argument talks about workers that have to wade waist-deep in dairy manure every day! Two guys died when they

drowned in the stuff! These are some very powerful images that would have perfect for a movie called Food Inc. Sadly, if I remember right, they don't say anything negative about the dairy industry in the movie. On a more positive side, the movie brought up some things that might make some people think. A more memorable segment was the one focusing on the woman whose son died of E. Coli poisoning, and how hard she has worked to get a law passed that would require that all meat be tested so that this doesn't happen to any child again, and how she and her mom have worked on this for years, and so far the law HAS NOT PASSED.It will be shocking to some people to find out that lawmakers resist even such a simple safety check on meat that can save children's lives. All in the name of preserving the most amount of profit possible for the greedy meat industry tycoons.But I felt it was a real shame that they got all these people to come to

the movie theater, people who have a hunger to be educated, and so they had this opportunity to expose the real hell involved with meat, eggs, fish, and dairy production. Especially in today's world of factory farms. Sadly, they stop far short of showing people how bad things really are. I understand that a small part of it is that they were not allowed access to the really bad chicken houses, for example. If they couldn't get access, they couldn't access. But they could have described it or shown pictures. I felt very underwhelmed and disappointed by the movie.Maybe the problem is, they only focused on only a few things: broiler chickens, the E. Coli scare, some issues with farm workers, the sustainable small farmer, and the problems with patents on GMO corn, etc. But they could have covered the problems with pigs, egg-laying hens, dairy cows, beef cows, farmed fish, and ocean-caught fish. What about the pigs who only see the light of

day twice in their lives, once when they are weaned from their mothers and sent to a different shed, and finally when they are on their way to slaughter? What about the huge amounts of pig waste that pollute our rivers? What about the driftnets that kill dolphins, shrimp nets that kill turtles, etc? There were a lot more persuasive images that I think they could have shown or discussed. Check out this article on pig waste, it's sickening that we allow pigs to be treated this way, and it's devastating for the environment.Boss Hog America's top pork producer churns out a sea of waste that has destroyed rivers, killed millions of fish and generated one of the largest fines in EPA history. Welcome to the dark side of the other white meat. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/12840743/porks_dirty_secret_the_nations_top_hog_producer_is_also_one_of_americas_worst_polluters/printRead or skim through the article in the

link above. These issues with pigs would have been so important to include in the movie. Very eye-opening and persuasive!! ! But I don't think they mention this issue at all. These are some of my thoughts about the movie. It was only so-so. For me, it was frustrating that they left so much out. Especially when lot of the segments in the movie were rather drawn out and longer that they needed to be. They could have easily covered more topics. Perhaps the movie-makers were only trying to show a few things to get people thinking, believing that the regular moviegoer is not ready to hear the whole story. But I doubt that; it's a very selective audience, the ones who are taking the time to go see Food Inc instead of a regular Hollywood action movie or romance comedy, and PAYING MONEY to see it. Because of that, I think they are already self-selected as people who are ready to see the truth.And if they went to this movie, thinking they were

going to see the REAL DIRT on how bad the food industry really is ... I think they would come away from the movie feeling relieved that it's not nearly so bad as they had feared. Sure, Big Industry and Politics are corrupt, and that's why things are so nasty on factory farms, but there are nice farmers with "sustainable" farms; so the thing to do is to try to buy from those guys instead. And if you're on the road like Eric Schlosser and you need to make a pit stop to get a hamburger of questionable origin at the local diner, so be it. If Eric Schlosser, the guy who researched and wrote Fast Food Nation, isn't scared enough by all he has seen to stop eating meat or to be choosy about where he's getting it from, why should anyone else?I think if they had shown more about the conditions in the pig sheds, in the battery cages for egg-laying hens, in the veal crates for the dairy industry (even "organic" dairy farms sell the male calves for veal

meat), and in our oceans, where an estimated one fourth of the worldwide fishery catch is discarded, dead or dying, every year, I think more people would have come away with a much sicker feeling in their stomachs. All in all, the movie seemed like a wasted opportunity to really educate people. But if it has helped some people to move away from meat and toward a more vegetarian diet, then it IS doing a good thing. And if that's the case, if it can be a small step that helps steer people toward better decisions, then of course I would recommend it for meat-eaters. Any amount of raising awareness certainly does help. I'm just disappointed that it doesn't seem as persuasive as it could have been. That's my 2 cents about Food Inc, for anyone who is interested. :)Take care everybody,Rachel D.San Francisco, CA

July 16, 2009

Yeah, it is really sad that they didn't show more persuasive images about how

bad factory farms are. Will, I don't know who funded the movie, but, according

to this web site:

http://robertkennerfilms.com/filmsdetail_current.php

Something called Participant Media funded the film. I'm not sure where

Participant Media gets their money from; you may be right, perhaps they get

donations from companies like Stonyfield Farm (I now realize I had their name

wrong in my previous post.)

Even though I thought Food Inc was really " ehhhhh " and underwhelming, I've seen

some reviews from people acting like this has really opened their eyes and

changed the way they think.

" I ran into the movie trailer for Food, Inc. on accident February of this year.

The trailer alone almost jolted my life to a total halt. Let's just put it this

way, I haven't eaten McDonald's since. But that's not even the worst ... "

http://www.ftcldf.org/news/news-17june2009-2.htm

" I have to admit that after coming out of a packed screening Monday afternoon of

'Food Inc,.' I was suddenly convinced that all my vegetarian pals were a lot

smarter than I'd ever imagined. "

http://robertkennerfilms.com/filmsdetail_current.php

I guess it's easy for those of us who read countless books and blogs and watch

countless DVDs/podcasts/videos on these subjects to forget that there's a lot of

people out there still who just have NO IDEA what's going on with their food.

So a movie like Food Inc at least wakes the people up to SOMETHING.

So I shouldn't knock it, I guess. It looks like it's helping to change some

people!

Another correction for my last post: one review noted " If you saw the inside of

the world's largest hog slaughterhouse in Tar Heel, N.C. (where a lot of the

hidden camera footage was shot by actual workers there), you'd never order any

more bacon with your eggs. " In my previous post, I thought they didn't show

anything about factory farming for pigs ... so clearly I forgot that or (more

likely) blocked out the slaughterhouse images. It HAS been a few weeks since I

saw the movie, so I could have forgotten more stuff, but ... I'm pretty sure I

didn't block out the WORDS and the AUDIO, and I don't remember them talking

about gestation crates or the boredom and crowded conditions, " tail docking "

endured by pigs, or the pollution from pig waste. I think those would be pretty

powerful things to show the moviegoers.

Also, when I said the Food Inc guys were missing the point BIG TIME when they

upheld Stonyfield's organic dairy operations as a " success story, " I hope y'all

know what I meant was that Food Inc is missing a whole bunch of points! I said

it right after something about " wasting resources, " and I was ranting about that

simply because it seemed like a clear-cut thing to show the average moviegoer

.... most people when they think about it, say " Duh! That's right! Adult mammals

don't need milk! " and from there, you can go on to explain how harmful the dairy

process is to cows, and how harmful dairy is for our health (dairy consumers and

dairy workers), and how harmful it is for the environment. There's just a whole

lot of points missed when somebody upholds dairy as an example for the direction

we want to be moving in the future.

Geez, I feel like making my own movie!!! One that shows the truth, with the

images and facts to REALLY expose the meat/dairy/eggs industry. Hmmm. OK, upon

further reflection, I'm not qualified for such an undertaking. (Coming down to

earth!) I can do the research but I have no idea how to make a movie. I

wonder if In Defense of Animals or PETA might put together something like this?

Who knows, if the Participant Media folks earnestly desire to make a positive

difference for our food production industry by making movies, they could be

willing to work with IDA, PETA, etc, to get the real truth out in a mainstream

movie that goes way beyond Food Inc.

July 17, 2009

Donna wrote and suggested Earthlings is the movie I am looking for. She is

right that Earthlings is comprehensive and is extremely well made; it covers all

the important topics. I own the DVD and would love to have a veggie dinner and

movie night some Saturday evening, for anyone who is interested!

But you know what, I think Earthlings is too somber for most mainstream

audiences going to see a film at a regular movie theater. Based on the success

of movies like Food Inc, An Inconvenient Truth, Super Size Me, and more, I think

mainstream movies need to entertain while they educate and persuade.

Earlier I said that somebody willing to spend money and time to go see FOOD INC

instead of the latest romance comedy or action film is READY to know the whole

story; I still believe that that is true. However, I don't think that even these

self-selected people are ready for Earthlings. I suspect they'd get bored

and/or disgusted and just walk out, and box office sales would be dismal. I

think the people lining up to see FOOD INC are hungry for the same information

presented in Earthlings (ALL OF IT), and in fact they are expecting to see it

.... but they need it to be presented with a lighter touch.

Have y'all seen the short cartoon called The Meatrix that came out several years

ago?

http://www.themeatrix.com/

I LOVE this clip. It is so creative and funny! And it really brings out a lot

of the big problems! They did all of that in just a few minutes. Imagine what

they could do if they had enough time for a full-length movie! I don't think

the whole movie should be cartoons, but a full-length feature that blends

commentary, interviews, quirky comments by people from many different walks of

life, creative cartoons and graphics, and real footage ... would be fantastic

and very effective if it were done well.

(Granted, the follow-up movies Meatrix 2 and 2 1/2 provoke my ire for promoting

organic dairy products ... turns out, the people who make the Meatrix films are

all about " free range " animal products. But the first movie only talks about

Factory Farms and then says " How do we stop 'em? " ; then, CLICK HERE leads you

to a sustainable-ANIMAL-products web site ... what a bummer! But the video

itself is fantastic; if only the " CLICK HERE " led to a GO VEG web site instead,

it would be perfect!)

I think Food Inc is on the right track by mixing some light-hearted interviews

and cartoon-ish graphics in with the serious message of the movie. For example,

the footage in Food Inc of the chicken farmer with the Southern drawl saying

" Smells like money to me " in response to the " fragrant " smells outside his sheds

.... made people laugh in the theater. At the same time, it's sad that he views

the chickens as money; it was a very effective use of humor to underscore this

point.

Basically we need a movie with the content of Earthlings but the style of Food

Inc, Meatrix, etc. I'd say it's even better if the movie doesn't make specific

recommendations for action; just show the facts and make the points in an

entertaining or humorous way; and let each individual decide how he/she wants to

change his/her life in response.

So I'll put this out to the universe ... if anybody wants to make this Totally

Awesome Vegan Movie, feel free to seek me out as I would love to collaborate

with someone on such an endeavor!

Best wishes,

Rachel D.

San Francisco, CA

July 17, 2009

Hi Rachel,

Quoting from your earlier post, you wanted a movie " that shows the truth, with

the images and facts to REALLY expose the meat/dairy/eggs industry. " I could be

completely mistaken, but I would think that in order for the subject matter to

be taken as seriously as it is, films like " Earthlings " would be more effective

than ones that are cut with humor, cartoons, etc.

I'm not trying to merely disagree, because I completely understand what you are

saying. I would guess, though, that meat eaters who saw the funny short, " The

Meatrix, " were amused, but continued to eat meat nonetheless. I know people who

saw Food, Inc., SuperSize Me, etc, and were intellectually stimulated by them,

but not emotionally ( " doesn't apply to me because I drive a Prius " ), so they

continue to eat meat, albeit more warily. " Earthlings " doesn't just go for the

brain; it goes for the heart. I think people will eventually see " Earthlings "

with a little bit of patient and kind *pressure* from their friends. Because

once you learn the truth, you can no longer say you didn't know. If they can't

watch it, they can stay and listen to Joaquin Phoenix's impassioned narration.

And I always suggest that people watch the director Shaun Monson's two short,

heart-felt interviews in the Special Features BEFORE they watch the doc (don't

worry, no surprise footage).

I also don't think this social and cultural revolution will be much aided by

theater-goers (ok, maybe a skosh). I see it as an educate-your-non-human-animals

movement. Don't underestimate the power of those vegan grassy roots! Have your

" Earthlings " dinner gathering, yeah!

solidarity,

donna

, " Rachel Donovan " <racheldonovan wrote

<beginning excerpt>:

>

> Donna wrote and suggested Earthlings is the movie I am looking for. She is

right that Earthlings is comprehensive and is extremely well made; it covers all

the important topics. I own the DVD and would love to have a veggie dinner and

movie night some Saturday evening, for anyone who is interested!

>

> But you know what, I think Earthlings is too somber for most mainstream

audiences going to see a film at a regular movie theater. Based on the success

of movies like Food Inc, An Inconvenient Truth, Super Size Me, and more, I think

mainstream movies need to entertain while they educate and persuade.

>

July 18, 2009

Whoops, I meant educate-your-human-animals movement (family, friends, neighbors,

and branching outward). Sorry, this animal needs more sleep.

Donna

, " jondonna4peace " <jondonna4peace wrote:

>

> Hi Rachel,

<snip> I also don't think this social and cultural revolution will be much

aided by theater-goers (ok, maybe a skosh). I see it as an

educate-your-non-human-animals movement. Don't underestimate the power of those

vegan grassy roots! Have your " Earthlings " dinner gathering, yeah!

>

> solidarity,

> donna

>

> , " Rachel Donovan " <racheldonovan@> wrote

<beginning excerpt>:

> >

> > Donna wrote and suggested Earthlings is the movie I am looking for. She is

right that Earthlings is comprehensive and is extremely well made; it covers all

the important topics. I own the DVD and would love to have a veggie dinner and

movie night some Saturday evening, for anyone who is interested!

> >

> > But you know what, I think Earthlings is too somber for most mainstream

audiences going to see a film at a regular movie theater. Based on the success

of movies like Food Inc, An Inconvenient Truth, Super Size Me, and more, I think

mainstream movies need to entertain while they educate and persuade.

> >

>

July 18, 2009

Thanks Donna! Very good points. Having the message packaged in a lot of

different ways .... serious documentaries, humorous light-hearted movies, flyers

and leaflets, non-fiction books, TV shows, cookbooks, etc ... means it will

reach more people. I only disagree with you on one small point, which is that I

don't think that a movie needs to be as somber as Earthlings to get the message

across. Even though the subject matter is serious, the presentation doesn't

have to be.

If you really want a mind warp, check out this web site from a guy who says

organic meat production is wrong! Factory farming is the way to go, to feed the

great masses of human population, he says.

http://mr-green-jeans.com/?ent=1212725919

He also has a " History for Vegans " page which is totally ridiculous. Sadly, I

know lots of people out there are just as uninformed and would quickly agree

with this guy.

Take care,

Rachel D.

San Francisco

, " jondonna4peace " <jondonna4peace wrote:

>

> Hi Rachel,

>

> Quoting from your earlier post, you wanted a movie " that shows the truth, with

the images and facts to REALLY expose the meat/dairy/eggs industry. " I could be

completely mistaken, but I would think that in order for the subject matter to

be taken as seriously as it is, films like " Earthlings " would be more effective

than ones that are cut with humor, cartoons, etc.

>

> I'm not trying to merely disagree, because I completely understand what you

are saying. I would guess, though, that meat eaters who saw the funny short,

" The Meatrix, " were amused, but continued to eat meat nonetheless. I know people

who saw Food, Inc., SuperSize Me, etc, and were intellectually stimulated by

them, but not emotionally ( " doesn't apply to me because I drive a Prius " ), so

they continue to eat meat, albeit more warily. " Earthlings " doesn't just go for

the brain; it goes for the heart. I think people will eventually see

" Earthlings " with a little bit of patient and kind *pressure* from their

friends. Because once you learn the truth, you can no longer say you didn't

know. If they can't watch it, they can stay and listen to Joaquin Phoenix's

impassioned narration. And I always suggest that people watch the director Shaun

Monson's two short, heart-felt interviews in the Special Features BEFORE they

watch the doc (don't worry, no surprise footage).

>

> I also don't think this social and cultural revolution will be much aided by

theater-goers (ok, maybe a skosh). I see it as an educate-your-non-human-animals

movement. Don't underestimate the power of those vegan grassy roots! Have your

" Earthlings " dinner gathering, yeah!

>

> solidarity,

> donna

>

> , " Rachel Donovan " <racheldonovan@> wrote

<beginning excerpt>:

> >

> > Donna wrote and suggested Earthlings is the movie I am looking for. She is

right that Earthlings is comprehensive and is extremely well made; it covers all

the important topics. I own the DVD and would love to have a veggie dinner and

movie night some Saturday evening, for anyone who is interested!

> >

> > But you know what, I think Earthlings is too somber for most mainstream

audiences going to see a film at a regular movie theater. Based on the success

of movies like Food Inc, An Inconvenient Truth, Super Size Me, and more, I think

mainstream movies need to entertain while they educate and persuade.

> >

>

July 18, 2009

humor vs seriousness:

i'd say that, though our message ought to remain serious about veganism, the tone can be different i different contexts...which can include humor.

i've referred many to "steven the vegan" on youtube, and had many nonvegans say they thought it was hilarious.

at the same time, something like "the meatrix" is not flawed in it's approach because of attempting some humor, but instead for pointing it's viewers to things that are not vegan...as alternatives to factory farming.

on one hand, it's good to have a "sense of humor about oneself," while at the same time...not making "a complete joke" out of the viewpoints one holds dear.

yes?

~will

Rachel Donovan <racheldonovan Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:58:42 PM Re: Earthlings vs. Food, Inc.

Thanks Donna! Very good points. Having the message packaged in a lot of different ways .... serious documentaries, humorous light-hearted movies, flyers and leaflets, non-fiction books, TV shows, cookbooks, etc ... means it will reach more people. I only disagree with you on one small point, which is that I don't think that a movie needs to be as somber as Earthlings to get the message across. Even though the subject matter is serious, the presentation doesn't have to be. If you really want a mind warp, check out this web site from a guy who says organic meat production is wrong! Factory farming is the way to go, to feed the great masses of human population, he says.http://mr-green-jeans.com/?ent=1212725919He also has a "History for Vegans" page which is totally ridiculous. Sadly, I know lots of people out there are just as uninformed and would quickly agree with this guy.Take care,Rachel D. San Francisco

@ .com, "jondonna4peace" <jondonna4peace@ ...> wrote:>> Hi Rachel,> > Quoting from your earlier post, you wanted a movie "that shows the truth, with the images and facts to REALLY expose the meat/dairy/eggs industry." I could be completely mistaken, but I would think that in order for the subject matter to be taken as seriously as it is, films like "Earthlings" would be more effective than ones that are cut with humor, cartoons, etc. > > I'm not trying to merely disagree, because I completely understand what you are saying. I would guess, though, that meat eaters who saw the funny short, "The Meatrix," were amused, but continued to eat meat nonetheless. I know people who saw Food, Inc., SuperSize Me, etc, and were intellectually stimulated by them, but not

emotionally ("doesn't apply to me because I drive a Prius"), so they continue to eat meat, albeit more warily. "Earthlings" doesn't just go for the brain; it goes for the heart. I think people will eventually see "Earthlings" with a little bit of patient and kind *pressure* from their friends. Because once you learn the truth, you can no longer say you didn't know. If they can't watch it, they can stay and listen to Joaquin Phoenix's impassioned narration. And I always suggest that people watch the director Shaun Monson's two short, heart-felt interviews in the Special Features BEFORE they watch the doc (don't worry, no surprise footage).> > I also don't think this social and cultural revolution will be much aided by theater-goers (ok, maybe a skosh). I see it as an educate-your- non-human- animals movement. Don't underestimate the power of those vegan grassy roots! Have your "Earthlings" dinner gathering, yeah!> >

solidarity,> donna> > @ .com, "Rachel Donovan" <racheldonovan@ > wrote <beginning excerpt>:> >> > Donna wrote and suggested Earthlings is the movie I am looking for. She is right that Earthlings is comprehensive and is extremely well made; it covers all the important topics. I own the DVD and would love to have a veggie dinner and movie night some Saturday evening, for anyone who is interested! > > > > But you know what, I think Earthlings is too somber for most mainstream audiences going to see a film at a regular movie theater. Based on the success of movies like Food Inc, An Inconvenient Truth, Super Size Me, and more, I think mainstream movies need to entertain while they educate and persuade. >

>>

July 19, 2009

That's right. If you look at the first Meatrix video, they don't say anything

about it being a good idea to eat sustainable meat or organic dairy (bleh!!!)

instead. In the 1st video, they just say that the old McDonald farm is a

fantasy, and this is what's going on today in the factory farms. So I think the

first Meatrix video is great. The only bad thing is that when you click on the

link at the end, it sends you to a sustainable animal farms web site. But the

link could just as easily point you to a Go Veg web site, and nothing would be

need to be changed about the video itself.

Have you ever seen Dr. Greger talking about how to fight cancer by eating

organic vegetables and fruits etc? I saw him speak here in SF several years

ago, and he had me in stitches. But he is talking about cancer which is

obviously a serious matter. So just because something is serious doesn't mean

you can't have a sense of humor about it. When people think that vegans are a

bunch of serious folks with the weight of the world turning their smiles into

frowns, that makes them steer far away, I'd say. But when they see happy,

funny, smiling vegans, I think they are more likely to join us!

Gotta run now.

Take care,

Rachel

, William Beazley <wbeazleyiii wrote:

>

> humor vs seriousness:

>

> i'd say that, though our message ought to remain serious about veganism, the

tone can be different i different contexts...which can include humor.

>

> i've referred many to " steven the vegan " on youtube, and had many nonvegans

say they thought it was hilarious.

>

> at the same time, something like " the meatrix " is not flawed in it's approach

because of attempting some humor, but instead for pointing it's viewers to

things that are not vegan...as alternatives to factory farming.

>

> on one hand, it's good to have a " sense of humor about oneself, " while at the

same time...not making " a complete joke " out of the viewpoints one holds dear.

>

> yes?

>

> ~will

>

> ________________________________

> Rachel Donovan <racheldonovan

>

> Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:58:42 PM

> Re: Earthlings vs. Food, Inc.

>

> Thanks Donna! Very good points. Having the message packaged in a lot of

different ways .... serious documentaries, humorous light-hearted movies, flyers

and leaflets, non-fiction books, TV shows, cookbooks, etc ... means it will

reach more people. I only disagree with you on one small point, which is that I

don't think that a movie needs to be as somber as Earthlings to get the message

across. Even though the subject matter is serious, the presentation doesn't have

to be.

>

> If you really want a mind warp, check out this web site from a guy who says

organic meat production is wrong! Factory farming is the way to go, to feed the

great masses of human population, he says.

>

> http://mr-green-jeans.com/?ent=1212725919

>

> He also has a " History for Vegans " page which is totally ridiculous. Sadly, I

know lots of people out there are just as uninformed and would quickly agree

with this guy.

>

> Take care,

> Rachel D.

> San Francisco

>

> @ .com, " jondonna4peace " <jondonna4peace@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Rachel,

> >

> > Quoting from your earlier post, you wanted a movie " that shows the truth,

with the images and facts to REALLY expose the meat/dairy/eggs industry. " I

could be completely mistaken, but I would think that in order for the subject

matter to be taken as seriously as it is, films like " Earthlings " would be more

effective than ones that are cut with humor, cartoons, etc.

> >

> > I'm not trying to merely disagree, because I completely understand what you