Death? Ha ha ha ... kind of ...

[Guest guest]

hey Everyone!

 

Anthony ... I can't say " thank you " enough times for your incredibly

insightful and well-thought-out view points.

 

As I read your words, I feel a greater need to be more forgiving, in general

.... this is certainly a desirable trait that one must

develop in order to attain a greater level of spirituality and divinity.

 

However, I must say a couple of things on my true feelings on speciesism ...

and while many of you know how I feel already ...

I don't think I have articulated my thoughts well enough, as I have let my

emotions and passions get in the way. I think what I was feeling when the

hunters ended up killing themselves was this ... and I will use an analogy

(using humans, of course), so that it will be easier to ingest (not for us

Planet Vegan folks, but for those who still view other animals as less

important).

 

If two " fag bashers " were out repeatedly beating up gays, and, in the

process, had killed each other doing so, many would say that this was a

" victory " for the gay rights movement (and let's assume that the two " fag

bashers " killed themselves accidentally, we won't even venture to say that

the gay person they were beating up defended himself and killed them in the

end). People wouldn't say, " Oh, this is a tragedy, those poor " fag bashers "

got killed. " The only people who would be saddened by this " tragedy " are

those who also hate homosexuals.

 

In the end, two people will have died that, probably even with an abundance

of re-education, would have continued killing homosexuals. It is a victory

that they died because, I believe, we have begin accounting for lives. Two

" fag bashers " down, or, many more senseless killings. Believe me, I am not

saying that jail wouldn't suffice, however, this event would scare other

bashers into retirement, perhaps.

 

Whether we believe this or not, there is hatred in the hearts of those who

could actually kill an animal on a hunt (let's stick with recreational

hunting for now), much the same way those " fag bashers " go around hurting

gay people.

 

Now, I ask: Is it not more important to have two less senseless killers on

this planet? Is the life of an animal less important than that of a human?

When are we going to truly believe that the deer's life is just as important

as yours or mine? We are all animals, aren't we? If one of your friends were

in danger of being killed by another human, and the only way to save her/him

was to kill that other human (and this was completely within your capacity),

would you do it?

 

I will be very honest here ...given the opportunity, I would go " Blair

Witch " on some father-son hunting party.

 

This is a very hypothetical situation, but here it is:

 

Vik's in the woods with a rifle, he see's the dynamic duo aiming at a poor,

unsuspecting, innocent animal ... guess what Vik would do ...stand back and

watch them kill a poor animal? Not likely ... I would peg those bastards off

in a second, given the opportunity. In your hearts, ask yourselves the same

question ... would you allow that senseless killing to occur if you had the

opportunity to stop it? (believe me, if I had the opportunity to stop it any

other way, besides blowing them away, I would).

 

Am I a misanthrope? Yes I am. Would I actively pursue the type of behaviour

I described above? No, I wouldn't, but I wouldn't feel bad if someone did.

Much the same way homosexuals would feel if there was a straight person

going around avenging the senseless violence against gays, by taking down

the " bashers. "

 

In every instance in which animals are involved, the moral argument is never

good enough. Most people have to be given some sort of " human driven "

incentive in order to display compassion (and they are only being

compassionate to other animals via their selfishness - in most cases it's

the diet issue that turns meat-eaters into vegetarians or Vegans). While I

agree with Anthony that we don't have to have a superior morality or ethical

system to be driven to embrace veganism, we need to stop masking the true

issue at heart, and that is speciesism.

 

(Anthony ... which arguments do you use to re-affirm our herbivorous nature?

I speak of the digestive tract and molars ... when people talk about the

teeth - incisors - I mention that many apes - who are fruitarians - share

these same dental features). I would love it if everyone submitted some

arguments for everyone to use when faced with this question by meat eaters.

 

I completely agree with you, Anthony, we need to point out to others that

tradition and customs are no reason to continue the madness of this world.

 

The swatting of the fly issue is very important ... much the same as the

" killing of the cockroach " issue ... we need to let people understand there

are few animals that allow parasites to subsist in their habitat or being

.... and that by swatting the mosquito or fly that is feeding on your

existence, you are, in effect, having a natural reaction to discomfort.

Now, I agree with Anthony, I, personally, would rather allow the fly to

pester me than to kill it - as we have a different view point on animal

welfare, and probably feel more guilt for our species' behaviour towards

other animals or flies or mosquitoes.

 

I know what you are saying Anthony ... Veganism may be most successful if it

goes with the flow ...

 

At the same time, Vegetarians/Veganism is something that has been discussed

with fervour for the past 150 - 200 years, not to mention those who have

been talking about it for well over two thousand years (Socrates,

Pythagoras, etc.) ... people have had plenty of time to figure this shit

out.

 

If it was just vegetarianism at stake here, I would think that the " nice "

approach would work best ... but it's all of it. It's about Animal Rights.

And if the only thing we had to worry about were the slaughter houses, how

long would we stand back and watch animals being slaughtered?

When Hitler was gassing people to death, we stood up against it ... Hitler

was a racist. Well, killing animals in the slaughter house is no different,

and we know that. Those killing the animals (and those who support it), are

speciesist. Why don't we stop it? Because animals aren't as important.

 

We need to be ashamed. All of us. Because we all contribute to the slaughter

and persecution, even as vegetarians and Vegans, by doing nothing about it.

If there was a human death camp down the road from you, would you be down

there trying to close the place up? Yes, we all probably would (with

exception of Vik, ha ha ha - seriously, I wouldn't do anything about it,

close down the slaughterhouse first, I say!).

 

During the sixties, when the gay rights movement was starting to take form,

there was a conservative gay rights group (I saw it in a documentary

recreation film - I forget the exact situation) ... and their plan of attack

was to inform the general public that they (the gays) had a mental

" sickness. " What a big joke, right? Well, their mentality was that the

general public would warm up to them a little more, sympathize with them ...

well, FUCK that! The Gay Revolution did not get anywhere with that

mentality. They demanded to be treated with respect and dignity, and they

their plight isn't even near what the general non-human animal's plight is!

 

Gays, women, or ethnic minorities didn't break out of their persecuted state

by allowing their plight to be massaged into our system of rights and

wrongs. They demanded respect and dignity, and they demanded it immediately.

We must demand respect and dignity for other animals TODAY ... it's been

going on long enough.

 

Will we be perceived as zealots and ostracized by society? Yes, but so were

ethnic minorities, gays and women, when they decided to stand up for what

was right. I am not saying that we all need to go out with guns and rocks

and kill everyone ... but we have to understand the importance of

those who implement animal liberation with affirmative action ... every

single movement that has occurred in the history of liberation, has occurred

because people have made a firm stance. The only reason we need to be sweet

and kind to others in regard to animal liberation, is because we are talking

about animals. Get a human involved and there would be a fucking riot to

save him/her.

 

I have turned around many meat eaters with a very gentle approach, and it

has worked, I am not denying that ... I think the best way to help create

wide-spread veganism is through example ... it's definitely the most

rewarding way to do it. I just wish that all aspects of animal liberation

were as easy as this ...

 

I will look to you all for support in my quest for philanthropy ... if I

still have it in me ... somewhere...

 

Vikas