investigative reports ...

Email: carnival

Phone 416.923.

February 24, 2000

Hey Paul ...

It's interesting, according to what you picked out of the show, that it's

taken this long for people to recognize that simple moral concept that

people who kill cats and dogs should be put away ... maybe we should start

keeping cows and pigs and chickens as our pets ...

Ciao

Vikas Sharma of Operations & Media

Carnival Management

http://click./1/1894/2/_/651892/_/951400545/

Email: carnival

Phone 416.923.

February 24, 2000

Hey Vik,

Thanks for the lovely response to my intro.

Along the lines of what you are saying about

keeping cows, chickens and pigs as pets. My

family and I just recently attended a birthday

party at a Little Dude Ranch. I felt SO good

knowing I was not eating the pigs, sheep and

chicken in the petting zoo. I view things so

differently now and like myself so much more

for doing so. I have three cats and I couldn't

ever think of them as here for my consumption.

Just my two cents.

Alyssa

--- Vikas Sharma <carnival wrote:

> " Vikas Sharma " <carnival

>

> Hey Paul ...

>

> It's interesting, according to what you picked out

> of the show, that it's

> taken this long for people to recognize that simple

> moral concept that

> people who kill cats and dogs should be put away ...

> maybe we should start

> keeping cows and pigs and chickens as our pets ...

>

> Ciao

>

> Vikas Sharma

> Director of Operations & Media

> Carnival Management

>

> Web: http://www3.sympatico.ca/carnival

> Email: carnival

> Phone 416.923.

>

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February 24, 2000

Ever been to the Philippines or Cambodia or Korea?

Vikas Sharma of Operations & Media

Carnival Management

http://click./1/1894/2/_/651892/_/951400545/

Email: carnival

Phone 416.

Alyssa [alyssa71]

Thursday, February 24, 2000 11:15 AM

RE: investigative reports ...

Alyssa <alyssa71

Hey Vik,

Thanks for the lovely response to my intro.

Along the lines of what you are saying about

keeping cows, chickens and pigs as pets. My

family and I just recently attended a birthday

party at a Little Dude Ranch. I felt SO good

knowing I was not eating the pigs, sheep and

chicken in the petting zoo. I view things so

differently now and like myself so much more

for doing so. I have three cats and I couldn't

ever think of them as here for my consumption.

Just my two cents.

Alyssa

--- Vikas Sharma <carnival wrote:

> " Vikas Sharma " <carnival

>

> Hey Paul ...

>

> It's interesting, according to what you picked out

> of the show, that it's

> taken this long for people to recognize that simple

> moral concept that

> people who kill cats and dogs should be put away ...

> maybe we should start

> keeping cows and pigs and chickens as our pets ...

>

> Ciao

>

> Vikas Sharma

> Director of Operations & Media

> Carnival Management

>

> Web: http://www3.sympatico.ca/carnival

> Email: carnival

> Phone 416.923.

>

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February 24, 2000

No, Thank God. In November, a coworker went

to China to adopt a baby girl and he said in

the markets there are dogs and cats in cages

for sale. I was totally disgusted and then

thought as long as I eat meat in anyway I

never know what I am eating and why am I not

just as disgusted about eating pig as I am

about eating cat. Both are wrong---very wrong.

*spit* *cough*

Alyssa

--- Vikas Sharma <carnival wrote:

> " Vikas Sharma " <carnival

>

> Ever been to the Philippines or Cambodia or Korea?

>

> Vikas Sharma

> Director of Operations & Media

> Carnival Management

>

> Web: http://www3.sympatico.ca/carnival

> Email: carnival

> Phone 416.

>

> Alyssa [alyssa71]

> Thursday, February 24, 2000 11:15 AM

>

> RE: investigative reports

> ...

>

> Alyssa <alyssa71

>

> Hey Vik,

>

> Thanks for the lovely response to my intro.

>

> Along the lines of what you are saying about

> keeping cows, chickens and pigs as pets. My

> family and I just recently attended a birthday

> party at a Little Dude Ranch. I felt SO good

> knowing I was not eating the pigs, sheep and

> chicken in the petting zoo. I view things so

> differently now and like myself so much more

> for doing so. I have three cats and I couldn't

> ever think of them as here for my consumption.

>

> Just my two cents.

>

> Alyssa

>

> --- Vikas Sharma <carnival wrote:

> > " Vikas Sharma " <carnival

> >

> > Hey Paul ...

> >

> > It's interesting, according to what you picked out

> > of the show, that it's

> > taken this long for people to recognize that

> simple

> > moral concept that

> > people who kill cats and dogs should be put away

> ...

> > maybe we should start

> > keeping cows and pigs and chickens as our pets ...

> >

> > Ciao

> >

> > Vikas Sharma

> > Director of Operations & Media

> > Carnival Management

> >

> > Web: http://www3.sympatico.ca/carnival

> > Email: carnival

> > Phone 416.923.

> >

>

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=====

Come visit Alyssa and Jimmy at

My Pisces Page http://www.geocities.com/~asiah

Jimmy's Art http://www.geocities.com/chazrh/

" By ethical conduct toward all creatures, we enter into a spiritual

relationship with the universe. " -Albert Schweitzer

Talk to your friends online with Messenger.

February 24, 2000

why don't we just start our own farm sanctuary at ... umm, Yonge and Dundas

.... where they knocked down the old jeans shop?

who needs Watkins Glen NY!!!! Downtown Toronto Slaughterhouse Animal

Sanctuary ... no lifting equipment, no walks!!!! Just full

out animal liberation!

Peace brothas and sistahs!

Vikas

February 24, 2000

I started watching it, and I agree that the message was totally wrong, it

was almost as if they were saying that violence towards animals was good,

because then you could find out who are the people that might become a

threat to society and " counsel " them before they kill an actual person.

Anyway, near the end it started becoming too grotesque and explicit (they

were showing footage of a video some guys taped of other guys torturing dogs

and setting fire to them and shit) and I just turned the TV off, so I didn't

get their conclusion or anything.

-Belle

____

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February 24, 2000

that's really fucking sick!!!

It's a good thing I stay away from that idiot box!!

Vikas Sharma of Operations & Media

Carnival Management

http://click./1/1894/2/_/651892/_/951431455/

Email: carnival

Phone 416.

Isabelle Netto [isabelle240]

Thursday, February 24, 2000 5:31 PM

Re: investigative reports ...

" Isabelle Netto " <isabelle240

I started watching it, and I agree that the message was totally wrong, it

was almost as if they were saying that violence towards animals was good,

because then you could find out who are the people that might become a

threat to society and " counsel " them before they kill an actual person.

Anyway, near the end it started becoming too grotesque and explicit (they

were showing footage of a video some guys taped of other guys torturing dogs

and setting fire to them and shit) and I just turned the TV off, so I didn't

get their conclusion or anything.

-Belle

____

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February 25, 2000

I caught the last half of the episode last night and: there was an extremely

disturbed teenager who with his friends stuffed a dog into a bag then set fire

to it, alive. They videotaped it so they could watch it later, which he did 10

times, in case they got " bored " . They did it because it was " fun " and they were

bored. The highest sentence they could get for it was probation but luckily they

were able to be charged with arson and sent to prison.

There was his jerk-off defence lawyer who said that " clearly there is a line

between animals and human beings " . I would have liked to have been interviewing

him to take the conversation to its conclusion and

make him explain exactly what he was trying to say and find out in exactly what

ways he finds human animals so superior to non-human animals that it's less of a

crime to torture non-humans. He got away with drawing the usual arbitrary line

without any explanation.

Then there was the congressman from Colorado who also happens to be a cattle

rancher who apparently fights hard against anti-cruelty laws because apparently

anti-cruelty laws interfere with his " business " . To

paraphrase, " First branding, then castration, what next? " He basically said that

if the activist types don't stop meddling he won't be able to do these cruel

things to his animals and if he can't do these cruel

things to his animals then he can't run his " business " . Enough said on that one.

Then there was the dude from the Humane Society of the United States

http://www.hsus.org/ who said we have to focus a bit on the cruelty to animals

leading to cruelty to humans aspect of it in order for regular

people to become aware and concerned about cruelty to animals in the first place

or at all, but that he and HSUS firmly believe that cruelty is cruelty no matter

who the victim is and would be fighting it even if it didn't lead to violence

towards humans, that cruelty to animals is worth fighting in its own right.

Sounds reasonable to me.

And there was the part about the ranch where they send troubled and/or criminal

teenage boys to hang out with animals and learn about caring about something.

One guy said that he's learned so much from his horse about love and respect and

I thought that was really nice. I believe what he said because I know that

animals are an example to us all of love and respect and loyalty among many

other good things. If only most humans were as awesome as most animals.

Of course the whole anti-animal rights diversionary tactic of claiming that AR

people want animals to have the same rights as humans came up. And all that ever

serves to do is distract people from the real issues. I have never heard of an

AR person campaigning for animals' right to vote or free speech. That's not what

it's about. If it has desire to avoid pain and to live and then it has the right

not to be tortured or killed. (See:

http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/speciesism.html ) But that's not what

the show was about. It was about humans.

Anyhow, the point of the show was very human-centric and unimpressive but I

figure that some attention brought to the issue of cruelty to animals is better

than none.

-anji

> Investigative Reports:The

> Cruelty Connection.

> Airs Wednesday, February 23 at

> 9pm ET/6pm PT

> Law enforcement agents

> investigate the possibility that

> violent criminals often begin their

> life of deviant behavior by treating

> animals cruelly, then later learn to

> lash out at humans. We also hear

> from FBI agents who believe that

> some animal abusers eventually

> develop into serial killers.

> [NR]

--

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February 25, 2000

well... would it be wrong of to suggest we fucking brand and castrate that

cattle ranching congressman>?

Peace (uh, yah, I really mean that)

Vik

Vikas Sharma of Operations & Media

Carnival Management

http://click./1/1830/2/_/651892/_/951450236/

Email: carnival

Phone 416.9

anji b [vegan]

Thursday, February 24, 2000 10:42 PM

Re: investigative reports ...

" anji b " <vegan

I caught the last half of the episode last night and: there was an extremely

disturbed teenager who with his friends stuffed a dog into a bag then set

fire to it, alive. They videotaped it so they could watch it later, which he

did 10 times, in case they got " bored " . They did it because it was " fun " and

they were bored. The highest sentence they could get for it was probation

but luckily they were able to be charged with arson and sent to prison.

There was his jerk-off defence lawyer who said that " clearly there is a line

between animals and human beings " . I would have liked to have been

interviewing him to take the conversation to its conclusion and

make him explain exactly what he was trying to say and find out in exactly

what ways he finds human animals so superior to non-human animals that it's

less of a crime to torture non-humans. He got away with drawing the usual

arbitrary line without any explanation.

Then there was the congressman from Colorado who also happens to be a cattle

rancher who apparently fights hard against anti-cruelty laws because

apparently anti-cruelty laws interfere with his " business " . To

paraphrase, " First branding, then castration, what next? " He basically said

that if the activist types don't stop meddling he won't be able to do these

cruel things to his animals and if he can't do these cruel

things to his animals then he can't run his " business " . Enough said on that

one.

Then there was the dude from the Humane Society of the United States

http://www.hsus.org/ who said we have to focus a bit on the cruelty to

animals leading to cruelty to humans aspect of it in order for regular

people to become aware and concerned about cruelty to animals in the first

place or at all, but that he and HSUS firmly believe that cruelty is cruelty

no matter who the victim is and would be fighting it even if it didn't lead

to violence towards humans, that cruelty to animals is worth fighting in its

own right. Sounds reasonable to me.

And there was the part about the ranch where they send troubled and/or

criminal teenage boys to hang out with animals and learn about caring about

something. One guy said that he's learned so much from his horse about love

and respect and I thought that was really nice. I believe what he said

because I know that animals are an example to us all of love and respect and

loyalty among many other good things. If only most humans were as awesome as

most animals.

Of course the whole anti-animal rights diversionary tactic of claiming that

AR people want animals to have the same rights as humans came up. And all

that ever serves to do is distract people from the real issues. I have never

heard of an AR person campaigning for animals' right to vote or free speech.

That's not what it's about. If it has desire to avoid pain and to live and

then it has the right not to be tortured or killed. (See:

http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/speciesism.html ) But that's not

what the show was about. It was about humans.

Anyhow, the point of the show was very human-centric and unimpressive but I

figure that some attention brought to the issue of cruelty to animals is

better than none.

-anji

> Investigative Reports:The

> Cruelty Connection.

> Airs Wednesday, February 23 at

> 9pm ET/6pm PT

> Law enforcement agents

> investigate the possibility that

> violent criminals often begin their

> life of deviant behavior by treating

> animals cruelly, then later learn to

> lash out at humans. We also hear

> from FBI agents who believe that

> some animal abusers eventually

> develop into serial killers.

> [NR]

--

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February 25, 2000

Well, I'm glad to hear that there was a modicum of

illumination in the program; that's more than I

expected. I really have very little respect for

television programming. I don't really hate people in

general, but I do hate most TV. It's owned and run by

people whose interests are soley to make money, no

matter what the price to society, and they're

influenced by the people who are making money in other

industries with the same cut-throat standards. I

don't have anything in particular against money

making, but animal exploiters make a lot of money and

so their influence on TV is huge compared to the few

organizations who care more about life than profit.

Even the greedy little soy product makers with their

overpriced weiners and burgers can't compete with the

meat industry for media attention. I'm starting to

think that the only hope for animals may be that meat

companies might try to steal the market by selling soy

products and promoting vegatarianism and stabbing

their competitors in the back. You wouldn't believe

what kind of companies are buying up the veggie

market. I heard that Philip Morris (Tobacco) bought

Boca, the makers of my favorite burger. I wonder if

it might be smart to buy the products even thought

they're owned by the big souless businesses just so

that they'll turn the tide a little further away from

meat consumption. They know that meat consumption is

on the decline despite the " high protein " diets and

pro-meat nutrition advertising out there. For

example, I found that Harvey's veggie burgers are

vegan, so the question is whether should I buy them

even though the money goes to cow murderers. Why not,

if it means easier access to vegan food for everyone,

and as long as these companies aren't buying up the

veggie companies just to shut them down. Anyway, I

haven't seen anything truly interesting or educational

on TV for years, and anything that tries to be decent

doesn't even come close to the potency of books and

internet. What they show you on TV contains a fifth

of what you could learn if you spent the same time

reading a book or surfing a good web site for the same

information.

There is one program that I've seen that I like, and

that was desmond morris's " The Human Animal " which was

kinda pop-science but interesting if you believe in

evolution. I don't know what it says about

vegetarianism, but I'm told that the biggest

evolutionist, Charles Darwin, was against eating

animals. After all, he did argue that they are more

like us than we might percieve or care to admit.

ciao for now,

Anthony

--- anji b <vegan wrote:

> " anji b " <vegan

>

> I caught the last half of the episode last night

> and: there was an extremely disturbed teenager who

> with his friends stuffed a dog into a bag then set

> fire to it, alive. They videotaped it so they could

> watch it later, which he did 10 times, in case they

> got " bored " . They did it because it was " fun " and

> they were bored. The highest sentence they could get

> for it was probation but luckily they were able to

> be charged with arson and sent to prison.

>

> There was his jerk-off defence lawyer who said that

> " clearly there is a line between animals and human

> beings " . I would have liked to have been

> interviewing him to take the conversation to its

> conclusion and

> make him explain exactly what he was trying to say

> and find out in exactly what ways he finds human

> animals so superior to non-human animals that it's

> less of a crime to torture non-humans. He got away

> with drawing the usual arbitrary line without any

> explanation.

>

> Then there was the congressman from Colorado who

> also happens to be a cattle rancher who apparently

> fights hard against anti-cruelty laws because

> apparently anti-cruelty laws interfere with his

> " business " . To

> paraphrase, " First branding, then castration, what

> next? " He basically said that if the activist types

> don't stop meddling he won't be able to do these

> cruel things to his animals and if he can't do these

> cruel

> things to his animals then he can't run his

> " business " . Enough said on that one.

>

> Then there was the dude from the Humane Society of

> the United States http://www.hsus.org/ who said we

> have to focus a bit on the cruelty to animals

> leading to cruelty to humans aspect of it in order

> for regular

> people to become aware and concerned about cruelty

> to animals in the first place or at all, but that he

> and HSUS firmly believe that cruelty is cruelty no

> matter who the victim is and would be fighting it

> even if it didn't lead to violence towards humans,

> that cruelty to animals is worth fighting in its own

> right. Sounds reasonable to me.

>

> And there was the part about the ranch where they

> send troubled and/or criminal teenage boys to hang

> out with animals and learn about caring about

> something. One guy said that he's learned so much

> from his horse about love and respect and I thought

> that was really nice. I believe what he said because

> I know that animals are an example to us all of love

> and respect and loyalty among many other good

> things. If only most humans were as awesome as most

> animals.

>

> Of course the whole anti-animal rights diversionary

> tactic of claiming that AR people want animals to

> have the same rights as humans came up. And all that

> ever serves to do is distract people from the real

> issues. I have never heard of an AR person

> campaigning for animals' right to vote or free

> speech. That's not what it's about. If it has desire

> to avoid pain and to live and then it has the right

> not to be tortured or killed. (See:

>

http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/speciesism.html

> ) But that's not what the show was about. It was

> about humans.

>

> Anyhow, the point of the show was very human-centric

> and unimpressive but I figure that some attention

> brought to the issue of cruelty to animals is better

> than none.

>

> -anji

>

> > Investigative Reports:The

> > Cruelty Connection.

> > Airs Wednesday, February 23 at

> > 9pm ET/6pm PT

> > Law enforcement agents

> > investigate the possibility that

> > violent criminals often begin their

> > life of deviant behavior by treating

> > animals cruelly, then later learn to

> > lash out at humans. We also hear

> > from FBI agents who believe that

> > some animal abusers eventually

> > develop into serial killers.

> > [NR]

> --

>

> _____________

> Free email services provided by

> http://www.goodkarmamail.com

>

> powered by OutBlaze

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