Guest guest Posted March 22, 2000 Report Share Posted March 22, 2000 Not you guys, my idiot brother in law! This guy became " vegetarian " about 6 weeks ago. I got all this stuff off the net and from www.meatout.com because I thought it would interest him and give him some info as a " newbie " . I didn't know if he was still eating dairy so I sent along some stuff from notmilk.com. I figured if he was going vegan he could use it, if not fine, no skin off my teeth! I packaged all this stuff up and sent it off to him...today he calls saying " Well, you HAVE to milk cows, it doesn't hurt them, it's good for them! " I told him about conditions cows live in, ow they are mechanically raped, separatedfrom their babies etc. I said cows have been around a lot longer than factory farms and have managed not to explode! I said if we'd just let them produce milk naturally they wouldn't have so much excess that they'd have to be milked all the time! I said hey buddy, that's breast milk for THEIR babies! That's where it should go--he couldn't get it. He kept saying oh milking cows etc is good for them. Then he said " I can't give up milk or eggs--there's nothing left. " ARGHHHHHH!!!! I went to this huge vegan buffet the other night, ate waaaaay too much food--don't tell ME there's nothing left!!!! I told him what about grains like barley, oats, millet, couscous, rice, what about pasta, beans, soy/tofu, seitan/wheat gluten, vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds and the list goes on!!! I said there is soy milk and you can find replacers for eggs! He's so hardheaded! Now he said he appreciated the info about meat, but " could never be a vegan " . I'm like FINE! Just don't call me up and try to talk *me* out of being one! Jeez! Oh and he eats fish...some " vegetarian " eh? How do you all handle debates like this?? Is there a site or something where you can find common arguments against veganism and intelligent rebuttals?? I could use your thoughts on this everyone! Thanks a ton I'm so glad to have you all to come to! Mary Ann ===== " Lately it occurs to me...what a long strange trip it's been... " ~~The Grateful Dead...we miss you Jerry... Talk to your friends online with Messenger. http://im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2000 Report Share Posted March 22, 2000 Hi Mary Ann, I can empathise with your frustration. I have found that some of the smartest people I know to some of the silliest most self-serving, circularily-logical beliefs about meat and dairy and eggs. It sounds like you're doing fine in terms of debating skill, Mary Ann, but people are very reluctant to change and it takes time for reality to sink in and for a lifetime of brainwashing to wear off. I don't mind calling it brainwashing, even though I try to not be dogmatic or preachy, because most meat eaters are very ill-informed of what goes on at modern factory farms. I'm impressed that you helped him become a vegetarian in the first place! It's only been 6 weeks, so I'd say give him some time and remind him and yourself that he's been misinformed like most people in the western world because meat is really big business and endorsements mean a lot to media and education where the stage is set in our culture; then again, nobody likes to admit that they've been brainwashed. Anyone remember the " four food groups " pamphlets and colouring books (yes we Canadians have a U in colour) with the little blue Milk logo? The Milk industry has been giving this stuff and free milk to schools for so long that nobody questions it. It's like Apple giving free or heavily discounted Macintosh computers to schools to gain market share later. Its borderline conspiracy and definitly creepy. It takes time to unlearn that stuff, so you might want to have some patience. People won't do what they don't want to do, so you can only show people the benefits, really. Getting angry might not help the situation either. You might want to advise him that it's common for people to become lacto-ovo vegetarian and then end up eating more dairy and eggs which doesn't help them reach their goal of finding better health. If the debate comes up again, you might also want to tell him that the cows just aren't treated well, and they shouldn't be bread and made to live in those conditions in the first place. Saying that they " need to be milked " suggests that there would be the same number of cows roaming around doing nothing but hanging around eating grass if people didn't drink milk. Truth is that people shouldn't continue to breed them for such terrible lives. They're overbred to serve humans, and many characteristics are bred into them for their productivity and not there happiness. There's no way a cow should make that much milk for so long. No birds lay eggs every day or even once a month. Most birds in the wild lay eggs once a year (including the fowl that the chicken originated from) and maybe twice in some cases. Peace out, Anthony Mary Ann wrote: > Mary Ann <maryann23_1977 > > Not you guys, my idiot brother in law! This guy > became " vegetarian " about 6 weeks ago. I got all > this stuff off the net and from www.meatout.com > because I thought it would interest him and give > him some info as a " newbie " . I didn't know if he > was still eating dairy so I sent along some stuff > from notmilk.com. I figured if he was going vegan > he could use it, if not fine, no skin off my > teeth! I packaged all this stuff up and sent it > off to him...today he calls saying " Well, you > HAVE to milk cows, it doesn't hurt them, it's > good for them! " I told him about conditions cows > live in, ow they are mechanically raped, > separatedfrom their babies etc. I said cows have > been around a lot longer than factory farms and > have managed not to explode! I said if we'd just > let them produce milk naturally they wouldn't > have so much excess that they'd have to be milked > all the time! I said hey buddy, that's breast > milk for THEIR babies! That's where it should > go--he couldn't get it. He kept saying oh milking > cows etc is good for them. Then he said " I can't > give up milk or eggs--there's nothing left. " > ARGHHHHHH!!!! I went to this huge vegan buffet > the other night, ate waaaaay too much food--don't > tell ME there's nothing left!!!! I told him what > about grains like barley, oats, millet, couscous, > rice, what about pasta, beans, soy/tofu, > seitan/wheat gluten, vegetables, fruits, nuts and > seeds and the list goes on!!! I said there is soy > milk and you can find replacers for eggs! He's so > hardheaded! Now he said he appreciated the info > about meat, but " could never be a vegan " . I'm > like FINE! Just don't call me up and try to talk > *me* out of being one! Jeez! > > Oh and he eats fish...some " vegetarian " eh? > > How do you all handle debates like this?? Is > there a site or something where you can find > common arguments against veganism and intelligent > rebuttals?? I could use your thoughts on this > everyone! > > Thanks a ton I'm so glad to have you all to > come to! > > Mary Ann > > > ===== > " Lately it occurs to me...what a long strange trip it's been... " > ~~The Grateful Dead...we miss you Jerry... > > > > Talk to your friends online with Messenger. > http://im. > > ------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > http://click./1/937/3/_/651892/_/953764780/ > ------ > > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2000 Report Share Posted March 23, 2000 i get the same thing from everyone around me too...my friend is all like " god made animals for us to eat... " what a freak!!!! that makes me angry... *casey* Mary Ann wrote: > > Mary Ann <maryann23_1977 > > Not you guys, my idiot brother in law! This guy > became " vegetarian " about 6 weeks ago. I got all > this stuff off the net and from www.meatout.com > because I thought it would interest him and give > him some info as a " newbie " . I didn't know if he > was still eating dairy so I sent along some stuff > from notmilk.com. I figured if he was going vegan > he could use it, if not fine, no skin off my > teeth! I packaged all this stuff up and sent it > off to him...today he calls saying " Well, you > HAVE to milk cows, it doesn't hurt them, it's > good for them! " I told him about conditions cows > live in, ow they are mechanically raped, > separatedfrom their babies etc. I said cows have > been around a lot longer than factory farms and > have managed not to explode! I said if we'd just > let them produce milk naturally they wouldn't > have so much excess that they'd have to be milked > all the time! I said hey buddy, that's breast > milk for THEIR babies! That's where it should > go--he couldn't get it. He kept saying oh milking > cows etc is good for them. Then he said " I can't > give up milk or eggs--there's nothing left. " > ARGHHHHHH!!!! I went to this huge vegan buffet > the other night, ate waaaaay too much food--don't > tell ME there's nothing left!!!! I told him what > about grains like barley, oats, millet, couscous, > rice, what about pasta, beans, soy/tofu, > seitan/wheat gluten, vegetables, fruits, nuts and > seeds and the list goes on!!! I said there is soy > milk and you can find replacers for eggs! He's so > hardheaded! Now he said he appreciated the info > about meat, but " could never be a vegan " . I'm > like FINE! Just don't call me up and try to talk > *me* out of being one! Jeez! > > Oh and he eats fish...some " vegetarian " eh? > > How do you all handle debates like this?? Is > there a site or something where you can find > common arguments against veganism and intelligent > rebuttals?? I could use your thoughts on this > everyone! > > Thanks a ton I'm so glad to have you all to > come to! > > Mary Ann > > > ===== > " Lately it occurs to me...what a long strange trip it's been... " > ~~The Grateful Dead...we miss you Jerry... > > > > Talk to your friends online with Messenger. > http://im. > > ------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > http://click./1/937/3/_/651892/_/953764780/ > ------ > > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2000 Report Share Posted March 23, 2000 Uh, Tell him you bigger fish to fry? Uh, oh?! Sorry ... Vik Mary Ann <maryann23_1977 Not you guys, my idiot brother in law! This guy became " vegetarian " about 6 weeks ago. I got all this stuff off the net and from www.meatout.com because I thought it would interest him and give him some info as a " newbie " . I didn't know if he was still eating dairy so I sent along some stuff from notmilk.com. I figured if he was going vegan he could use it, if not fine, no skin off my teeth! I packaged all this stuff up and sent it off to him...today he calls saying " Well, you HAVE to milk cows, it doesn't hurt them, it's good for them! " I told him about conditions cows live in, ow they are mechanically raped, separatedfrom their babies etc. I said cows have been around a lot longer than factory farms and have managed not to explode! I said if we'd just let them produce milk naturally they wouldn't have so much excess that they'd have to be milked all the time! I said hey buddy, that's breast milk for THEIR babies! That's where it should go--he couldn't get it. He kept saying oh milking cows etc is good for them. Then he said " I can't give up milk or eggs--there's nothing left. " ARGHHHHHH!!!! I went to this huge vegan buffet the other night, ate waaaaay too much food--don't tell ME there's nothing left!!!! I told him what about grains like barley, oats, millet, couscous, rice, what about pasta, beans, soy/tofu, seitan/wheat gluten, vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds and the list goes on!!! I said there is soy milk and you can find replacers for eggs! He's so hardheaded! Now he said he appreciated the info about meat, but " could never be a vegan " . I'm like FINE! Just don't call me up and try to talk *me* out of being one! Jeez! Oh and he eats fish...some " vegetarian " eh? How do you all handle debates like this?? Is there a site or something where you can find common arguments against veganism and intelligent rebuttals?? I could use your thoughts on this everyone! Thanks a ton I'm so glad to have you all to come to! Mary Ann ===== " Lately it occurs to me...what a long strange trip it's been... " ~~The Grateful Dead...we miss you Jerry... Talk to your friends online with Messenger. http://im. ------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click./1/937/3/_/651892/_/953764780/ ------ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2000 Report Share Posted March 23, 2000 Dear Mary Ann I don't want to sound critical of you here, because it sounds to me like you're doing a fine job of enlightening those around you, which is all we can ever hope to do - if they listen then it's a bonus. But it strikes me that your brother-in-law has taken a huge step towards a cruelty-free lifestyle and in consequence is being called an idiot! I've not heard of many people who've gone straight from carnivore to vegan. Even if he never makes it any further than where he is now, over the course of his lifetime there will be many birds and mammals saved from a squalid life and an agonising death thanks to the decision he has made. I know it's hard to bite your tongue because I feel as strongly as you do and I have family members as stubborn as yours, but believe me you're not going to change anyone's minds by losing your cool. If I were you, I'd make a note to send your brother-in-law a card on the one year anniversary of his giving up meat (presuming that he sticks to it!), saying well done and telling him how many animals he's spared and how much he's added to his life expectancy by so doing. If I were as clever as I'd like to be I'd be able to give you the figures, but I'm sure they're available on the 'net somewhere. Good luck! Cathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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