mantra

July 23, 2000

> i had never known of the current Dalai Lama advocating or eating

> meat. is there somewhere i can get more information about this?

It is fairly common knowledge that the Dalai Lama eats meat from time to time.

Even a Buddhist will tell you. In fact, many Buddhists will love to tell you

because that is how they justify their own meat eating (ie. " Well the Dalai Lama

does it. " ) The Buddhist precepts have been so perverted along the way that you

will hear many Buddhists say stuff like:

- it's okay to eat a dead animal because it is already dead

- it's okay to eat a dead animal if it was not killed for you specifically

- it is not " polite " to refuse food

All this of course is total BS.

In Buddhism, there are five " precepts, " which could be considered to play a

similar role as the Ten Commandments do for Jews and Christians. These

precepts provide moral guidance for lay Buddhists as well as monks and nuns.

The First Precept is ahimsa. Non-violence. Compassion for all living beings. Not

taking life. It is not vague like " Thou shalt not kill " . It specifically

mentions ALL LIVING BEINGS. All creatures.

The following is extracted from http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bp239/dhamma.html

Some might claim that, as long as people don't kill animals themselves, it is

okay to eat meat. However, note that passages 129 and 130 in the Dhammapada

specify that we should not " kill or cause to kill. " When people buy products

made from the bodies of dead animals, they must necessarily cause someone to

kill those animals. Therefore, meat, leather, and fur are off limits. It is

probably true that, in order to be economically viable, killing older, less

productive animals is necessary to produce milk and eggs -- certainly this is

one claim of the egg and milk industries in justifying this practice. If so,

then buying milk and eggs also necessarily causes killing, and thus should be

avoided under the First Precept.

How about meat that someone else has bought? In most, perhaps all cases, by

accepting meat served to us by someone else, we are causing killing. For

example, if meat-eating friends invite us over for dinner, they will buy extra

meat for us in anticipation of our visit, or if our visit was unplanned they are

likely

to buy extra meat to restock their larder after we leave. In either case, our

acceptance of the meat has caused additional animals to be killed. So ideally,

we

should not accept meat served to us by others, and should let people know this

in advance whenever possible.

Some claim that the contents of their stomach do not matter, only the contents

of their mind. However, the Buddha points out that we should give thought to

what we eat:

" He who lives only for pleasures, and whose soul is not in harmony, who

considers not the food he eats, is idle, and has not the power of virtue -- such

a man is moved by MARA, is moved by selfish temptations, even as a weak tree is

shaken by the wind. " (Dhammapada, 7)

Anyhow, the reason I feel so strongly about the Dalai Lama being a bad leader is

because many of his followers WILL do what he does. I've heard it myself. If he

wants to eat meat well fine, but he absolutely should step down from his

position. The Buddha did not eat dead animals. Ashoka did not eat dead animals.

(Ashoka was the Emperor of India around 272BC and elevated Buddhism to the state

religion of India. He was a strict vegetarian).

The Dalai Lama breaking the First Precept by eating meat once in a while is like

the Pope breaking the First Commandment by murdering humans once in a while. It

is NOT acceptable.

I'm not sure where to get information on the Dalai Lama eating meat. I'm not

saying he directly advocates it, though he does do it. At one of Rynn Berry's

lectures at the Congress he mentioned the Dalai Lama eating meat pretty recently

at some state dinner or something. I forget the details but I can email Rynn and

find out more about it. I'm not sure what more Rynn can tell me though, aside

from the fact that the Dalai Lama does indeed eat meat once in a while. Rynn is

historical advisor to the North American Vegetarian Society (NAVS) and teaches a

college course in NY on the history of vegetarianism. He also wrote Famous

Vegetarians and their Favorite Recipes: Lives and Lore from Buddha to the

Beatles, and Food for the Gods: Vegetarianism & the World's Religions, and is

considered to be the foremost expert on these matters. Rynn also does not

consider the Dalai Lama to be a true Buddhist.

I have looked online to find more information but it's not like he advertises

his meat eating. Instead what I've noticed is that, when referring to

compassion, the Dalai Lama uses the words " human " and " people " A LOT, whereas

the scriptures use the words " all living beings " . For example the Dalai Lama has

said: " Killing HUMAN being is something most unthinkable. " , and " Basically,

universal responsibility is the feeling for other PEOPLE's suffering just as we

feel our own. " Maybe it's just me but I find this very obvious.

> " If anybody said

> that I should die if I did not take beef-tea or mutton, even under

> medical advice, I would prefer death. <<

>

> what do you think of the idea that to deny oneself the necessities

> of survival is an act of violence against ourselves?

I can't speak for Ghandi, but I figure that if it were prescribed, he would

continue to eat plant foods, live with peace of mind, and die knowing that no

other creatures had to suffer and die for him. That's his choice.

If you feel strongly enough about your values, you live by them no matter what

the cost. Kind of like " death before dishonor " . It's an age old concept.

I think your question has more to do with a question like - what if you were

stranded in the desert and the only potential food source were animals?

Well who knows what I would do? I might kill an animal and I might even resort

to cannabalism. (I seriously doubt it but it's been known to happen) Who can

say? Human and non-human survival instincts are VERY strong.

But this hypothetical question is not relevant in modern times. And in modern

times the question of being prescribed animal foods is not relevant either since

we all know that eating a plant based diet is the healthiest. Luckily, in the

case of vegetarianism, noone must die to live according to their values.

This is a very good question you've brought up and it's impossible for me to

answer because it is ultimately up to each individual to decide how far they're

willing to go to live up to their values and ethics. And as for the Dalai Lama,

when it comes to food, he's obviously not willing to go very far at all.

--

Free email services provided by http://www.goodkarmacafe.com

Powered by Outblaze

July 23, 2000

Does anyone know if previous Dalai Lamas ate meat, or is the present one the

first and only to behave in that way?

Deborah

> i had never known of the current Dalai Lama advocating or eating

> meat. is there somewhere i can get more information about this?

It is fairly common knowledge that the Dalai Lama eats meat from time to

time. Even a Buddhist will tell you. In fact, many Buddhists will love to tell

you because that is how they justify their own meat eating (ie. " Well the Dalai

Lama does it. " ) The Buddhist precepts have been so perverted along the way that

you will hear many Buddhists say stuff like:

- it's okay to eat a dead animal because it is already dead

- it's okay to eat a dead animal if it was not killed for you specifically

- it is not " polite " to refuse food

All this of course is total BS.

In Buddhism, there are five " precepts, " which could be considered to play a

similar role as the Ten Commandments do for Jews and Christians. These

precepts provide moral guidance for lay Buddhists as well as monks and nuns.

The First Precept is ahimsa. Non-violence. Compassion for all living beings.

Not taking life. It is not vague like " Thou shalt not kill " . It specifically

mentions ALL LIVING BEINGS. All creatures.

The following is extracted from

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bp239/dhamma.html

Some might claim that, as long as people don't kill animals themselves, it

is okay to eat meat. However, note that passages 129 and 130 in the Dhammapada

specify that we should not " kill or cause to kill. " When people buy products

made from the bodies of dead animals, they must necessarily cause someone to

kill those animals. Therefore, meat, leather, and fur are off limits. It is

probably true that, in order to be economically viable, killing older, less

productive animals is necessary to produce milk and eggs -- certainly this is

one claim of the egg and milk industries in justifying this practice. If so,

then buying milk and eggs also necessarily causes killing, and thus should be

avoided under the First Precept.

How about meat that someone else has bought? In most, perhaps all cases, by

accepting meat served to us by someone else, we are causing killing. For

example, if meat-eating friends invite us over for dinner, they will buy extra

meat for us in anticipation of our visit, or if our visit was unplanned they are

likely

to buy extra meat to restock their larder after we leave. In either case,

our acceptance of the meat has caused additional animals to be killed. So

ideally, we

should not accept meat served to us by others, and should let people know

this in advance whenever possible.

Some claim that the contents of their stomach do not matter, only the

contents of their mind. However, the Buddha points out that we should give

thought to

what we eat:

" He who lives only for pleasures, and whose soul is not in harmony, who

considers not the food he eats, is idle, and has not the power of virtue -- such

a man is moved by MARA, is moved by selfish temptations, even as a weak tree is

shaken by the wind. " (Dhammapada, 7)

Anyhow, the reason I feel so strongly about the Dalai Lama being a bad

leader is because many of his followers WILL do what he does. I've heard it

myself. If he wants to eat meat well fine, but he absolutely should step down

from his position. The Buddha did not eat dead animals. Ashoka did not eat dead

animals. (Ashoka was the Emperor of India around 272BC and elevated Buddhism to

the state religion of India. He was a strict vegetarian).

The Dalai Lama breaking the First Precept by eating meat once in a while is

like the Pope breaking the First Commandment by murdering humans once in a

while. It is NOT acceptable.