Spazzing out about Yoghurt & My eating sushi story

[Guest guest]

First of all, good message! You're reflecting on the issues.

 

> To say that " Any person who endorses

" dairy " is not to be trusted in the vegan community " is a pretty

harsh. To me it seems really hard lined and dogmatic. <

 

It is a harsh message. But such harsh messages must be considered.

It got your attention. Every vegan should understand what veganism

means. You're simply not vegan if you're supporting the dairy

industry and getting paid for it.

 

It isn't the end of the world. It doesn't mean that the person

is necessarily corrupt...but I wonder about such things. Yet

I'm not going to lose any sleep about it...hopefully.

 

As vegans, we're pretty fringe fanatic. Sometimes this means

that we have to take a firm stand here and there. On the other

hand, being vegetarian or non-vegan does not imply that someone

is wrong... Perhaps they don't quite get it. Hard to believe or

they're moving slowly in the right direction.

 

I applaud every vegetarian or anyone who does the best they

can to support animal liberation. On the other hand, I don't

call them vegan.

 

I applaud every vegan who has no need to point out to everyone

else about their own personal lifestyle. Being vegan does not

require signs.

 

It does not necessarily mean the vegan police are out when someone

says supporting dairy is not vegan. It's not such a great

revelation to suggest that vegan means no dairy...period! It's

a fact.

 

Unfortunately, its probably impossible to be a 100% board certified

vegan unless you make absolutely everything you eat from scratch

and insure that no microscopic critters get in your food. But we

can say that vegan means no dairy.

 

On the other hand, so what if someone drinks milk. It doesn't mean

we can't socialize with them or look at them.

 

I agree that we have to be compassionate and understanding and

supportive. But that doesn't mean we have to bend the most obvious

" meaning " of veganism to do it. If vegans don't know what veganism

means, then what is it?

 

Thanks. Keep talking. Feel free to disagree. Everyone...

 

~ernie

[Guest guest]

I like and agree with what you wrote, but I wasnt saying that vegans can eat

dairy - Ofcourse dairy isnt vegan. Thats not the point...

 

What I was pointing out is that Jane does amazing work wether shes a vegetarian

or a vegan or not.

OBVIOUSLY shes not claiming to be a vegan! Shes not one...Who is calling her a

vegan? She might even be a meat eater. We dont know.

 

All we do know is her work.

 

A few months ago, we all had a heated discussion about the Dalai Lama eating

meat and if he should or shouldnt and budhism etc. It was pretty heated! (I

dunno if you were a member then)..but he was seen ordering filet mignon and

" veal cheek " and all sorts of discusting things.

 

Lots of us were surprised by this hypocracy, and its was a sad sad

disapointment. However, he doesnt claim to be a vegetarian. If he was claiming

that, it would be outrageous. Hes obviously not a vegan!

 

Anyhew, my point, if I get to it, about Jane Goddall is that I dunno why you

come down so hard on her when she doesnt claim to be a vegan either. I often

assume that people who are environmentally aware are vegetarians or that people

who fight for animal rights are strict vegans.

Like my friend I mentioned in the previous email- Often they are not!!! We can't

assume.

Peace,

 

Bliss

---It aint easy being green---

 

" Ernie Karhu " <erniekarhu

Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:15:36 -0000

 

Re: Spazzing out about Yoghurt & My eating sushi story

 

 

> First of all, good message! You're reflecting on the issues.

>

> > To say that " Any person who endorses

> " dairy " is not to be trusted in the vegan community " is a pretty

> harsh. To me it seems really hard lined and dogmatic. <

>

> It is a harsh message. But such harsh messages must be considered.

> It got your attention. Every vegan should understand what veganism

> means. You're simply not vegan if you're supporting the dairy

> industry and getting paid for it.

>

> It isn't the end of the world. It doesn't mean that the person

> is necessarily corrupt...but I wonder about such things. Yet

> I'm not going to lose any sleep about it...hopefully.

>

> As vegans, we're pretty fringe fanatic. Sometimes this means

> that we have to take a firm stand here and there. On the other

> hand, being vegetarian or non-vegan does not imply that someone

> is wrong... Perhaps they don't quite get it. Hard to believe or

> they're moving slowly in the right direction.

>

> I applaud every vegetarian or anyone who does the best they

> can to support animal liberation. On the other hand, I don't

> call them vegan.

>

> I applaud every vegan who has no need to point out to everyone

> else about their own personal lifestyle. Being vegan does not

> require signs.

>

> It does not necessarily mean the vegan police are out when someone

> says supporting dairy is not vegan. It's not such a great

> revelation to suggest that vegan means no dairy...period! It's

> a fact.

>

> Unfortunately, its probably impossible to be a 100% board certified

> vegan unless you make absolutely everything you eat from scratch

> and insure that no microscopic critters get in your food. But we

> can say that vegan means no dairy.

>

> On the other hand, so what if someone drinks milk. It doesn't mean

> we can't socialize with them or look at them.

>

> I agree that we have to be compassionate and understanding and

> supportive. But that doesn't mean we have to bend the most obvious

> " meaning " of veganism to do it. If vegans don't know what veganism

> means, then what is it?

>

> Thanks. Keep talking. Feel free to disagree. Everyone...

>

> ~ernie

 

> Post message:

> Subscribe: -

> Un: -

> List owner: -owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /community/

>

>

--

 

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[Guest guest]

I saw the posts about the Dalai Lama. I didn't have anything

to " add " to the discussion. It was not relevant to me.

 

I was not being critical of anyone in particular. I really

didn't have anyone specific in mind. But I did wonder about

the relevance of some posts. I felt compelled to add that

if anyone on the list who says that he/she is a vegan and

supports dairy, they should not to be trusted as a spokesperson

for veganism.

 

We all should know that to be vegan is not not eat any animal

by-product, nor wear or use any animal by-product, insofar as

it is possible. Animals are not ours for any purpose. Being

vegan is pretty radical in our society. It is a very specific

way of life. What one does in one's life is one's own business.

If someone claims to be vegan and sneaks a glass of milk or

eats an egg, that's their business until they began to suggest

it is veganism to others. Let them live with their own

conscience, just don't play games with other vegans.

 

I won't take a flu shot, for example, because the vaccine is

made from eggs. I don't suggest others follow my example. The

choice is for each vegan.

 

I also practice caloric restriction, meaning I won't eat empty

calories (junk food) or eat more than a 600 calorie meal. I

drink lots of water. Practice breathing exercises and do a lot

of walking daily. I don't reward myself with food or " stuff. "

I don't support a consumer mentality as a part of my own

lifestyle.

 

Peace to all!

 

~ernie

[Guest guest]

I totally agree. I would like to say that maybe by promoting an

organic yogurt, Jane Goodall is doing more to make people aware

of the condiitons on most dairy farms than if she just told this

company to go screw itself. I dont know how they treat the animals

on this Stoneybrook farm, and yes, they are still using the animal

and they are still taking away the calf, but lets face it, most

people know very little about the conditions animals live in for

food, and MOST people in the US are going to keep eating dairy no

matter what. Isn't it better if other companies like Dannon see that

more compassionste treatment of animals sells yogurt and perhaps make

things a little better their cows? In addition someone may read the

stoneybrook label and read that the cows are treated better and

think, " Hmm, I never thought about cruelty to dairy cows before,

maybe I'll look into that. " and maybe the ball will start rolling

and one day they'll give it up altogether, or start drinking soy or

whatever. Lastly, publicity of Jane Goodall is good, since she gets

people thinking about respect for animals.

 

This is not to say vegans should do organic dairy ads, just that

we should see the good in what Ms Goodall did. I think that we must

remember

where we are. Most people don't even know what a vegan IS let alone

agree with the philosophy. We are in the very infant stages of

changing societal thinking, and I believe that we should be happy for

even small changes, like the appeal of organic less-cruel dairy over

the standard faire.

Veganism is like very hot bath water for most people, we can't

expect peope to jump right in, only through slowly turning up the

temperture can we get people to feel comfortable with it.

Pragmatically yours, G