Guest guest Posted October 13, 2000 Report Share Posted October 13, 2000 > Christians are not upset with veganism, they are upset with PETA's billboards and if you are interested in furthering the cause of veganism then it IS your problem. All PETA's billboards have ever accomplished is turning people right off. < Not the Christians I know. > What do you think of the scantily clad woman holding sausages vaguely citing sketchy science saying meat eating causes impotence? < Might make a few men think twice. Might offend some women. Does not offend me. I found it quite funny. It's both comedy and satire. " What about telling people to drink beer instead of milk and offending other groups that are trying to do good in the world? " I got the point of that message. Far better to drink a beer than a glass of milk. Truth, comedy and satire. >How tacky is it to use the face of a man who will die of cancer, without permission, to get a message across? < This sort of thing happens all the time regarding politicians or any public figure. I thought the message was clear and to the point. Perhaps it can save a few lives in the process. It is truth in satire with a touch of black humor. We live in a very gross world. Sometimes the message may have to hit on that level. I don't support it. But I don't find it objectionable. > I've said this before and I'll say it again, I do not disagree with PETA's message. I disagree with their tactics. I personally do not agree with the philosophy that any press is good press, and it is my sincere feeling that for every one step forward we make with our personal, quiet day to day outreach efforts, PETA billboards bring us two steps back. > > Why don't you do an informal poll among meat eaters and ask them something like: " Have the PETA billboards inspired you to learn more about vegetarianism? " See what they say.< I don't need to take a poll. I do know for a fact that the message does get through. I've heard " meat eaters " argue among themselves about these messages. Tell me, however, how would you get through to the majority? Like dealing any other jackass, PETA's message hits them between the eyes and gets their attention, setting them up for us to follow through. Some certainly see the black humor or comedy it it even if they do not agree. It does facilitate a breakdown of memes. > PETA's claims may well be correct, however they are not inspiring the very people they are targeting (christians) to learn more about vegetarianism and christianity. So what's the point?< I can't disagree with PETA if it gets their attention. Most would not care one way or another if the message were more polite. It's been out there long enough. If it reaches one more person that would not have known to stop and consider or to raise some doubt, it may be worth the risk. Again, it not my way but I see not great issue for vegans here. >... I perceive that the idea behind the billboards is to peak people's interest in the matter and inspire them to learn more, and I don't think it's > working.< The probable gain from the message may not be obvious at first. Once the fuss is over, others will reconsider or revisit the issue or try to resolve it in their own minds. What we're seeing is a conflict of memes. I think it may be more significan than we imagine. I believe our approach must be on many levels. > All my previous post was about was that I do not personally feel that tacky billboards are the best way to advance our cause. > -- That's not the message I was responding to. I have not seen the Billboards, just in their website and other publications. I don't know about " tacky " but provocative, maybe. Billboard are not the " best way " to advance the cause. Billboards are not my way and I would not recommend their use. But it does not offend me. If it offends other, then it has done something to give attention to the issue. Whether it does mre harm than good in the long term, I don't know. It may be like fighting fire with fire. > Are you saying I'm not a vegan? You don't know me, and I must say I resent your condescending tone. Fyi, I am sufficiently informed having read many books on the subject including 'The Vegetarianism of Jesus Christ - The Pacifism, Communalism and Vegetarianism of Primitive Christianity' by Charles P. Vaclavik, 'Heretics Feast' by Colin Spencer, and others.< If the shoe does not fit, don't attempt to wear it. You're right I don't know you so I can't speak for you. I WAS speaking about those offended by the Jesus was a vegan message. I'm sorry that it is seen as offensive. However, I agree with it. More importantly each of us must be true to our own path and not take issue with the path of others which may seemingly not be consistant with ours. If you have compassion for meat eaters, should you not have the same compassion for PETA and other vegans who are seeking the same goal? Who can untimately judge who has the best way. Yours and mine are very similar. However, I do not object to those whose ways are different AS LONG AS THEY ARE NON VIOLENT AND DO NOT HARM OTHERS. I don't see what PETA does as violent. I don't see it as tacky. It is comedy and satire most often. Peace be with my good friend! Ernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2000 Report Share Posted October 16, 2000 Well said Anji! " anji b " <vegan Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:33:14 +0500 Re: Re: PETA Angers Christians, Dairy Industry > > PETA's antics? If some narrow-minded Chistian fundamentalists > > are upset with veganism, that's their problem and not mine. > > Christians are not upset with veganism, they are upset with PETA's billboards and if you are interested in furthering the cause of veganism then it IS your problem. All PETA's billboards have ever accomplished is turning people right off. > > What do you think of the scantily clad woman holding sausages vaguely citing sketchy science saying meat eating causes impotence? What about telling people to drink beer instead of milk and offending other groups that are trying to do good in the world? How tacky is it to use the face of a man who will die of cancer, without permission, to get a message across? > > I've said this before and I'll say it again, I do not disagree with PETA's message. I disagree with their tactics. I personally do not agree with the philosophy that any press is good press, and it is my sincere feeling that for every one step forward we make with our personal, quiet day to day outreach efforts, PETA billboards bring us two steps back. > > Why don't you do an informal poll among meat eaters and ask them something like: " Have the PETA billboards inspired you to learn more about vegetarianism? " See what they say. > > > > > If > > anyone is interested in factual information and not dogma based > > on historical revisions, then PETA's claims are correct. > > PETA's claims may well be correct, however they are not inspiring the very people they are targeting (christians) to learn more about vegetarianism and christianity. So what's the point? > > > > > Fundamentalism is based on the lie within re-written textual > > accounts. The " New Testament " is a Roman fraud. Paul was a > > Roman subject and apologist. This was the heresy that Jesus > > protested. PETA makes that clear and no apology is needed. > > Paul was a terrorist, quite literally, for the Roman cause. > > PETA makes the idea - that fundamentalism is based on the lie within re-written textual accounts and that the New Testament is a Roman fraud and that Paul was a Roman subject and apologist and that this was the heresy that Jesus protested - clear in their billboards? I don't think that they communicate all that. I perceive that the idea behind the billboards is to peak people's interest in the matter and inspire them to learn more, and I don't think it's > working. > > > > > We need to restrict our compassion to people and not distorted > > beliefs. It is sad to see such ignorance and narrow-mindedness > > prevail even among ostensible vegans. > > I presume you are calling me ignorant and narrow-minded. That's fine. But don't pretend to know my members and offend them by saying things like: > " Veganism is not necessarily a pathology or social disease that pits people against each other as expressed on this list. " and " Planet-Vegan has a distinct purpose of community for those who struggle with their own identity in life. I offer another choice for those who know who they are... " I am protective of my members and I insist that this list be an environment where everybody feels free to express their feelings without fear of criticism. > > > > > We need to read carefully all that PETA says and not be so > > quick to accept the " dogma " that opposes PETA. > > > > I support PETA 100% on this issue. Take some time to evaluate > > PETA's position. Those who disagree and protest the loudest > > are not vegans. Take some time and study the history of the times. > > Are you saying I'm not a vegan? You don't know me, and I must say I resent your condescending tone. Fyi, I am sufficiently informed having read many books on the subject including 'The Vegetarianism of Jesus Christ - The Pacifism, Communalism and Vegetarianism of Primitive Christianity' by Charles P. Vaclavik, 'Heretics Feast' by Colin Spencer, and others. > > All my previous post was about was that I do not personally feel that tacky billboards are the best way to advance our cause. > -- > > Free email services provided by http://www.goodkarmacafe.com > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/ > > -- Free email services provided by http://www.goodkarmacafe.com Powered by Outblaze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2000 Report Share Posted October 17, 2000 I'm a member of PETA because I fully support the cause, if not the tactics. I'm nonplussed with their obsession with celebrities. You know, I really don't give a rip what Drew Charlize Barrytheron eats or wears. And if somebody stops eating meat because Whoever Moviestar is a vegetarian, well I guess that's a few more critters saved, but I got to wonder about that person. -Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2000 Report Share Posted October 17, 2000 I have to say I agree with Anji. I think Vegans/Animal Rights Activists are already seen as 'Lunatics' and some of PETA's tactics perpectuate that. Don't get me wrong, I agree with what PETA stands for but wonder how much thought they put into such campaigns as 'Got Beer?'. It really infuriated people. Educate not alienate. My 2 cents, Alyssa --- amazon grrrl <bliss wrote: > Well said Anji! > > " anji b " <vegan > Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:33:14 +0500 > > Re: Re: PETA Angers > Christians, Dairy Industry > > > > > PETA's antics? If some narrow-minded Chistian > fundamentalists > > > are upset with veganism, that's their problem > and not mine. > > > > Christians are not upset with veganism, they are > upset with PETA's billboards and if you are > interested in furthering the cause of veganism then > it IS your problem. All PETA's billboards have ever > accomplished is turning people right off. > > > > What do you think of the scantily clad woman > holding sausages vaguely citing sketchy science > saying meat eating causes impotence? What about > telling people to drink beer instead of milk and > offending other groups that are trying to do good in > the world? How tacky is it to use the face of a man > who will die of cancer, without permission, to get a > message across? > > > > I've said this before and I'll say it again, I do > not disagree with PETA's message. I disagree with > their tactics. I personally do not agree with the > philosophy that any press is good press, and it is > my sincere feeling that for every one step forward > we make with our personal, quiet day to day outreach > efforts, PETA billboards bring us two steps back. > > > > Why don't you do an informal poll among meat > eaters and ask them something like: " Have the PETA > billboards inspired you to learn more about > vegetarianism? " See what they say. > > > > > > > > > If > > > anyone is interested in factual information and > not dogma based > > > on historical revisions, then PETA's claims are > correct. > > > > PETA's claims may well be correct, however they > are not inspiring the very people they are targeting > (christians) to learn more about vegetarianism and > christianity. So what's the point? > > > > > > > > > Fundamentalism is based on the lie within > re-written textual > > > accounts. The " New Testament " is a Roman fraud. > Paul was a > > > Roman subject and apologist. This was the heresy > that Jesus > > > protested. PETA makes that clear and no apology > is needed. > > > Paul was a terrorist, quite literally, for the > Roman cause. > > > > PETA makes the idea - that fundamentalism is based > on the lie within re-written textual accounts and > that the New Testament is a Roman fraud and that > Paul was a Roman subject and apologist and that this > was the heresy that Jesus protested - clear in their > billboards? I don't think that they communicate all > that. I perceive that the idea behind the billboards > is to peak people's interest in the matter and > inspire them to learn more, and I don't think it's > > working. > > > > > > > > > We need to restrict our compassion to people and > not distorted > > > beliefs. It is sad to see such ignorance and > narrow-mindedness > > > prevail even among ostensible vegans. > > > > I presume you are calling me ignorant and > narrow-minded. That's fine. But don't pretend to > know my members and offend them by saying things > like: > > " Veganism is not necessarily a pathology or social > disease that pits people against each other as > expressed on this list. " and " Planet-Vegan has a > distinct purpose of community for those who struggle > with their own identity in life. I offer another > choice for those who know who they are... " I am > protective of my members and I insist that this list > be an environment where everybody feels free to > express their feelings without fear of criticism. > > > > > > > > > We need to read carefully all that PETA says and > not be so > > > quick to accept the " dogma " that opposes PETA. > > > > > > I support PETA 100% on this issue. Take some > time to evaluate > > > PETA's position. Those who disagree and protest > the loudest > > > are not vegans. Take some time and study the > history of the times. > > > > Are you saying I'm not a vegan? You don't know me, > and I must say I resent your condescending tone. > Fyi, I am sufficiently informed having read many > books on the subject including 'The Vegetarianism of > Jesus Christ - The Pacifism, Communalism and > Vegetarianism of Primitive Christianity' by Charles > P. Vaclavik, 'Heretics Feast' by Colin Spencer, and > others. > > > > All my previous post was about was that I do not > personally feel that tacky billboards are the best > way to advance our cause. > > -- > > > > Free email services provided by > http://www.goodkarmacafe.com > > > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > Post message: > > Subscribe: - > > Un: > - > > List owner: -owner > > > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > /community/ > > > > > -- > > Free email services provided by > http://www.goodkarmacafe.com > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/ > Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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