Guest guest Posted October 22, 2000 Report Share Posted October 22, 2000 , " Maynard S. Clark " <vrc@t...> wrote: > I'm concerned that this list is being politicized about > issues which cannot be shown to have anything to > do with vegetarianism, and often for issues which > a number of true vegans will find deeply objectionable. I'm concerned that vegans (adopting the idea of an imaginary or fictional or ideal planet vegan) are isolating themselves from the world in a manner that facilitates nothing and diminishes our role and mission in society. I agree that these issue must be discussed and positions ought not to be adopted without throughtful consideration. I also believe that Gore and Bush are not my candidates. I've adopted Nader because he's a quantum step in the right direction. This does not mean that I'm convinced Nader is the person needed in the Whitehouse. I'm fairly certain that none offer all that's needed...but perhaps Bush and Gore offer nothing substantial beyond the politics as usual. There are a growing number who believe that veganism and vegetarianism and environmentalism is the agenda of the New World Order meaning the Bilderbergers, the World Bank and the Trilateral Commission, etc. That's certainly the most absurd conspiracy link I've seen. What's more absurd is that Ralph Nader and The Green Party is pro-Bilderberg. Nader was and is anti-NAFTA. NAFTA is a prime feature of the WTO-World Bank-Bilderberg Group and certainly not a part of the Green Agenda. I believe that if vegans remain silent about political themes we'll be seen as political dupes of some anti-social conspiracy. Ernie > We saw this in the Netherlands in previous decades > where what was CALLED (the nomenclature) > " the vegan movement " become nothing more than > left wing social agendas and the advocacy of marijuana. > DapperD72@A... - Dave - supposably " Vegan Action " > hasn't shown us anything but personal opinions which > touch upon diet by his BEING vegan (presumably), > and the political opinions > > Lest this list become, like so many others, just a free-for-all > with nothing but the advancing of personal whims, why don't > we touch on dietary issues and vegan philosophy? > > I do NOT support Nader any more, nor do I support Gore > any more -- any more than I would support Bush. > I don't even think that Hagelin is " OUR candidate " . > I don't think that vegetarians HAVE a candidate > this time around, although there ARE many > vegetarians who DO think that " Ralph Nader's the one " > (to borrow a phrase from the Richard Nixon campaign > of many years ago. > > I think that " Ralph Nader is the one " for some vegetarians > and vegans and folks who consider themselves > progressives, and IMO many of his criticisms need > to be DIRECTLY APPLIED to our special collective concerns, > not merely repeated parrotlike as so many self-styled > activists have done. > > The level and quality of thinking vegetarians have shown > in this campaign has been variable. I see little REAL > understanding of the issues being advanced in this > campaign period BY vegetarians around the insights > of the various candidates to issues that affect us all, > including the rest of Americans, around the way dietary > choices affect us. > > The background of this year's MANY truly DIFFERENT > political choices in the US campaign suggests to me > that the insights just aren't being shared -- or just > aren't there at all, since we see blatant electioneering > for things like drug legalization, special preferences > and protections for practicing homosexuals, etc. > > I have heard from fellow activists, and I echo, that > this campaign has reminded us that many of us, > despite decades of vegetarian activism, feel very > little common ground with very many of the > " new " (AND old) self-styled vegetarian activists > of our time. > > Whew! > > Give me a day when people knew the issues. > And give us a scorecard, like Common Cause > would do. > > And if vegetarianism or veganism WERE the > ONLY issue, I'd like to see how, as a vegetarian > of 25 years or as a vegan of 23+ years I would > feel about the various candidates -- on what > they would do around food and diet. > > The many unfounded rumors that Tipper Gore > is vegetarian, Hagelin is vegetarian, Nader is vegetarian, > and even that Yasser Arafat is vegetarian -- > are just flabbergasting. Rumors fly, and they > fly on these lists as much as they fly anywhere > else on the Internet. > > Whew !! > > Excuse me, while I get a breath of fresh air. > > Maynard S. Clark > > > > At 01:32 PM 10/21/00 +0000, truvegan wrote: > >-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> > >There are 2 messages in this issue. > > > >Topics in this digest: > > > > 1. Black Support for Nader v. Gore > > DapperD72@a... > > 2. Cages in the War on Drugs > > DapperD72@a... > > > > > >___________________ ___ > >___________________ ___ > > > >Message: 1 > > Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:01:38 EDT > > DapperD72@a... > >Black Support for Nader v. Gore > > > >Please freely forward this article far & wide, especially to any lists which > >may be predominantly occupied by non-white people, who will thereby think > >outside the box. > > > >Vegan Action > >http://www.delphi.com/veganpower/ > > > > " The animals of the world exist for their own purposes. They were not made > >for humans any more than blacks were made for whites, or women for men. " > > ---Alice Walker > > > > > >[This message contained attachments] > > > > > > > >___________________ ___ > >___________________ ___ > > > >Message: 2 > > Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:23:34 EDT > > DapperD72@a... > >Cages in the War on Drugs > > > >My friend Jesse, a Green marijuana legalization campaigner and vegan animal > >rights activist in NY, brought this to my attention. He encouraged me to > >forward it to these lists. Please cut & paste the URL's into your browser & > >read all articles on the topic. The unity of oppression between human and > >nonhuman victims of the fundamentally racist war on drugs, firmly supported > >by both Bush and Gore, but opposed by Nader, must be recognized by all > >factions of both the Green Party and the animal rights community if we are > >ever to conquer the powers that be and return power to the people. > > > >Peace for all beings, > >David ;^) > >Vegan Action > >http://www.delphi.com/veganpower/ > > > > " The animals of the world exist for their own purposes. They were not made > >for humans any more than blacks were made for whites, or women for men. " > > ---Alice Walker > > > > > >[This message contained attachments] > > > > > > > >___________________ ___ > >___________________ ___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2000 Report Share Posted October 22, 2000 In Ted Flynn's book HOPE OF THE WICKED, THE MASTER PLAN TO RULE THE WORLD, PETA, vegans, vegetarians, Greens, Feminists, and environmentalists are all dupes of the Bilderbergers, the World Bank, and Bush's New World Order. According to Flynn and many others like him we who support the Gaia Hypothesis, bio-diversity, respecting all the earth and all life independent of their commercial and utilitarian value as food, clothing, entertainment value and scientific use for research purposes are satanists and evil because we respect things that are not human. According to the Flynns of the world, we are not Christian and to behave as we do is un-Christian and therefore wicked. They cite that we have Wiccans and pagans in our midst which proves that we are evil... If we remain silent to these accusations, if we remain silent politically, we only reinforce such beliefs. Ernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2000 Report Share Posted October 23, 2000 until after the election learn to deal with politics. we'll be surrounded by it. having veganism connect to other issues is natural. excuse me while i smell stench of apathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2000 Report Share Posted October 23, 2000 , stoneysmrf@a... wrote: > excuse me while i smell stench of apathy. Some people enjoy negativity. It is a form of extistential self validation: I hurt, therefore I am. Some people enjoy having something to complain about. Some enjoy apathy. Others take responsibility for their experience and do whatever is needed to make responsible change. How many vegans here saw the Judicial Watch sponsored presidential debate titled " Ethics in Government " ? All of the presidential candidates were invited. Those who attended were Harry Browne of the Libertarian Party, John Hagelin of the Natural Law Party, and Howard Phillips of the Constitution Party. I was disappointed that Ralph Nader was not there. The debate was articulate and civil. The responses when compared with the debates between Bush and Gore made Bush and Gore appear as idiots. I would almost prefer any of the three to Bush or Gore as president. I agreed with everything that John Hagelin said during this debate. (I agreed with nothing Gore or Bush said in their own debates.) http://www.judicialwatch.org/press_release.asp?pr_id=645 Unless and until everyone who is apathetic concerning the pointless agendas of the Republicans and Democrats and vote for any of the " Third Party " candidates, we'll not likely have the political change we seek. I'll not ever vote for a Democrat or Republican again until our ballots are open to other views and support a true democracy. If you vote only for the party who takes the slowest route to Hell, you're still going to Hell (so to speak). Vote your conscience. Make sure you vote! see: http://www.judicialwatch.org/ It is difficult for me to understand or grasp vegan apathy. Vegan apathy seems too much an oxymoron. Just as there are those in our society who claim vegans are part of some Aquarian Conspiracy, there are those among vegans who insist that vegans should not have a political conscience and become involved in social change actively. Listen to these voices and consider who benefits most if their words are implemented. see: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/aquarian.htm Who benefits by supporting this belief? Business? Oragnized religion? Status quo? Animal rights? These are the views of Lyndon Larouche and Christian Coalition. This same sort of apathy allowed Hitler to gain power in the 1930s. Take responsibility. Make your voice heard. Ernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.