Guest guest Posted February 24, 2001 Report Share Posted February 24, 2001 In a message dated 2/24/2001 9:42:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, isabelle240 writes: > So my point is, we should all stop hating and start being happy with > ourselves and enjoying life. It's too short to just be pissed at the world > Belle, you really are being overly sensitive and playing the victim here in a real big way. Nobody here or on any vegan list I have been on hate the world. We may hate what the majority of the world's population chooses to do but it's our love for the world and everyone in it that gets us so passionate about the atrocities that go on. It is obvious that you do not comprehend the full impact that a non vegan diet plays in the harming of our planet and it's children. Surely you would be more understanding if you realized the implications. Peoples health is severely compromised, animals are mercilessly tortured and slaughtered and our planet is dying. Now maybe you don't care about the future of this planet with respect to yourself but the future generations who do not yet have a voice need a defense system lest they inhabit a barren toxic wasteland. They cannot consciously choose whether they are born but the prior generations can consciously choose to preserve the health and well being of the planet for them. Animals cannot consciously choose the inhumane suffering they are forced to endure either. We inflict it upon them. It's horrible! To top that off, we poison our children by feeding them milk dairy and meat everyday and give them a sentence of an unhealthy, unethical lifestyle by brainwashing them with political, greed based propaganda about what a good diet is. Now you may be able o sit idly by while animals suffer and people die and children are lied to but most of us are much more convicted to our beliefs than that. You are obviously much too invested in your own emotional needs as you demonstrate by perceiving yourself as the target of hateful people but the truth is you should move off of yourself and see these issues for what they are. Eggs are simply not part of a vegan diet. I remember that post and the response was that if an individual chooses to consume eggs and want it to be acceptable forever for them, then they should chat visa a vegetarian list and not a vegan one. Vegans are strong people. Strong in their commitments, beliefs and convictions. If this is too powerful a stance for yu then you should find a nice list where the pink paint is a bit thicker and the heads are still somewhat in the sand. Time is wasting for our dieing planet! Christy ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If you have met men who will exclude any of Gods creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you have met men who will deal likewise with their fellow men. Francis of Assisi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2001 Report Share Posted February 24, 2001 Some time ago I quit most of the vegetarian e-lists I was in (except this one), because they only made me feel bad. Why do vegetarians/vegans/animal rights activists have to be so bitter about everything? Why do we have to hate the world? Hating won't solve anything. Why can't we just be happy with ourselves because we're doing something for the world and for us? Look, there are infinite things that are horrible and that are going wrong in this planet. We can't fix the world -- that is beyond our control. But we are doing our part. I'm doing mine, and I'm satisfied. If you can't do anything about it, don't stress about it. In other lists, I got hate mail for eating marshmallows the previous month. I got hate mail for eating honey once in a while. I got hate mail for not giving up my leather shoes. I got hate mail for supporting a woman who adopted chickens who laid eggs everywhere and sometimes she used those eggs to make a cake. What a horrible, horrible woman. I got hate mail for calling myself a vegan, because apparently I'm even worse than the average meat-eater, I'm an embarassment, I'm betraying the vegan community, yadda yadda. So my point is, we should all stop hating and start being happy with ourselves and enjoying life. It's too short to just be pissed at the world all the time. Maybe I'll get in trouble for saying this, but I don't think anyone should hate meat-eaters either. If you don't respect someone's choice, how do you expect them to respect *your* choice? Anyway, I better be going. Peace & Love, Belle, from Toronto. _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2001 Report Share Posted February 25, 2001 Hi Planet Vegan people. If you're in Toronto give me an email so it's possible to send email just to Toronto people. Thanks Jason. Jay's Gourmet A meal plan and a lifestyle change. www.jaysgourmet.com 416-910-JAYS 416-910-5297 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2001 Report Share Posted February 25, 2001 In a message dated 2/25/2001 12:58:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, alyssa71 writes: > Are there any marshmellows not made with gelatin? > > Just curious, > Alyssa > Yes Alyssa. You can make them with Agar instead of gelatin. You can get the recipe from vegsource. Also, some Seventh Day Adventist grocery stores stock vegetarian marshmallows. Christy ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If you have met men who will exclude any of Gods creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you have met men who will deal likewise with their fellow men. Francis of Assisi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2001 Report Share Posted February 25, 2001 In a message dated 2/25/2001 2:44:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, isabelle240 writes: > Wow, thanks for the deep psychological profile you provided about me. I > think you should share your thoughts with my therapist. " overly sensitive > and playing the victim " . Wow. *Bravo*. > I started to read your mail and couldn't get past the second paragraph! You start carrying on by attacking me and whining about being attacked! Geesh. I was merely pointing out to you bottom line that a vegan first and foremost moves off their perceived wronged by the world perspective and gets busy trying to help make it right! Get over your self girlfriend and put your energies into something bigger than your wounded inner child. Christy ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If you have met men who will exclude any of Gods creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you have met men who will deal likewise with their fellow men. Francis of Assisi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2001 Report Share Posted February 25, 2001 Wow, thanks for the deep psychological profile you provided about me. I think you should share your thoughts with my therapist. " overly sensitive and playing the victim " . Wow. *Bravo*. I don't believe in personal attacks. I was just trying to share my point of view. My email was in no way an attack on your views. They were just my views that I wanted to share, and that's why we are in a list, is it not? Personal attacks were totally uncalled for. I really don't understand how you can accuse me of not understanding the impacts of eating meat. If I didn't, then why would I be a vegan? You shouldn't make these kind of comments, I'm sorry but you don't know me. I am as understanding of a preaching vegan as I am of my Jehovah's Witness neighbour who prays for me every day and feels really sorry for me because I'm going to burn in hell for eternity. I'm serious, not being sarcastic. Yes, people are dying, animals are dying. When people die because of diet, it's their own responsibility. We can't force someone to stop eating meat. It's just like smoking. People know it's bad, but they continue doing it. Why should we care about them? Now, the animals. The world won't turn vegetarian for one day to the other. It's a very slow process. In fact, from a sociological point of view, the switch to vegetarian diets has been very rapid since the 60's. Societies are hard to change, period, it's not going to happen in our lifetime. We can't change the world. Too bad, it's it. But that's just fact. I could worry about the situation of women in Afghanistan, I could worry about all the people dying in the 100+ wars that are going on in the world right now, I could worry about the millions of people dying of starvation and malnutrition in South America and Africa, I could worry about all the political prisioners being tortured and killed in dictatorships, I could worry about the women being stoned to death for being raped, I could worry about all the homeless children, I could worry about all the elderly who are denied health care, I could worry about hunting, I could worry about animal testing, I could worry about pollution, I could worry about ersistant bacteria, I could worry about all the endangered species, and everything bad that is going on in the world, and I do. And I do what I can to try and fix all this, but the reality is, we can't fix everything. I am doing my part. I'm not going to feed milk and meat to *my* children, but I can't force someone to stop giving milk to their children. I am doing what I can, and I do it because I want to. Being bitter about everything won't help, it will only do harm. And that was the whole point of my email, I am sorry you missed it. Now I have a choice, of helping the world and being bitter about everything, and helping the world and being happy for helping the world. I choose the latter, for my own sake and for the people who have to deal with me. Is this so bad? Persoanlly, I am through with self-sacrifice. I think it's an idiotic practice, that is always accompanied with a holier-tahn-thou attitude, and bitterness. I am not bitter, I choose to be happy, and I don't think there's anything more important in life. And that's my whole point. Thanks for accepting me so wholeheartedly and trying to say that I should quit the list. You're one of the many people who think I don't belong. Now on another note, how is eating an egg you found on the floor harming the planet? How is it harming an animal? How can someone be reprimanded for that? Why is it so bad? Is it written in the wholy book of veganism that eating something that comes from an animal even if it doesn't harm anything or anyone is a sign of weakness, and that person should be kicked out of the vegan community? I don't agree with that. And I know lots of people will agree with me on this one, but they are afraid to talk because of people like you. Not eevryone is the same, But I'm sure of one thing about being a vegan/vegetarian -- EVERYONE is doing their best. Peace & Love, Belle. _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2001 Report Share Posted February 25, 2001 Are there any marshmellows not made with gelatin? Just curious, Alyssa --- Isabelle Netto <isabelle240 wrote: > Some time ago I quit most of the vegetarian e-lists > I was in (except this > one), because they only made me feel bad. Why do > vegetarians/vegans/animal > rights activists have to be so bitter about > everything? Why do we have to > hate the world? Hating won't solve anything. Why > can't we just be happy with > ourselves because we're doing something for the > world and for us? Look, > there are infinite things that are horrible and that > are going wrong in this > planet. We can't fix the world -- that is beyond our > control. But we are > doing our part. I'm doing mine, and I'm satisfied. > If you can't do anything > about it, don't stress about it. > In other lists, I got hate mail for eating > marshmallows the previous month. > I got hate mail for eating honey once in a while. I > got hate mail for not > giving up my leather shoes. I got hate mail for > supporting a woman who > adopted chickens who laid eggs everywhere and > sometimes she used those eggs > to make a cake. What a horrible, horrible woman. I > got hate mail for calling > myself a vegan, because apparently I'm even worse > than the average > meat-eater, I'm an embarassment, I'm betraying the > vegan community, yadda > yadda. > So my point is, we should all stop hating and start > being happy with > ourselves and enjoying life. It's too short to just > be pissed at the world > all the time. Maybe I'll get in trouble for saying > this, but I don't think > anyone should hate meat-eaters either. If you don't > respect someone's > choice, how do you expect them to respect *your* > choice? Anyway, I better be > going. > Peace & Love, > Belle, from Toronto. > _______________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > http://www.hotmail.com. > > Get email at your own domain with Mail. http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2001 Report Share Posted February 26, 2001 I just want to add that the defeated attitude that you have isn't really rubbing me the right way. The whole point of being vegan is to make a difference. You're attacking our attitude when you should be examining your own. You repeatedly wrote things that were very pessimistic. There is a difference between realism and pessimism. Just so you know, you crossed the line into the latter. I honestly doubt anybody got anywhere with the idea 'you can't fix everything' and 'I'm doing as much as I am comfortable with'. There have been many people throughout history that didn't settle for that and accomplished more than anyone ever thought they could. I don't want to come off as rude, but if everyone had your attitude, nothing would ever get done. Theresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2001 Report Share Posted February 26, 2001 Oh well, since you didn't want to read my email, or if you just didn't have an intelligent response to my post, then I guess the discussion is over. Bye bye. Oh and thanks everyone who gave me positive feedback privately, I love you all :-) -Belle _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2001 Report Share Posted February 26, 2001 In a message dated 2/26/2001 11:16:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, isabelle240 writes: > Oh well, since you didn't want to read my email, or if you just didn't have > What an angry reply. You are an attention seeker and not committed to a vegan cause. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If you have met men who will exclude any of Gods creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you have met men who will deal likewise with their fellow men. Francis of Assisi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2001 Report Share Posted February 27, 2001 I'm sorry but this has to be taken off list immediately. Thanks, anji consciouseffert wrote: > > In a message dated 2/26/2001 11:16:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, > isabelle240 writes: > > > Oh well, since you didn't want to read my email, or if you just didn't have > > > > What an angry reply. You are an attention seeker and not committed to a vegan > cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2001 Report Share Posted February 28, 2001 I have found that there is a big variation in the judging of vegans from list to. But you are right, there is no point in worrying about everything and attacking people (not making a refernce to anything specific here) who aren't super perfect in their efforts. It sounds as if you have run into some bad attitudes in the past and I think you would enjoy reading the essay at vegan outreach about " the vegan 'police' " which address this. They believe veganism should be about trying to make a difference and not purity and a individualistic sense of self-satisfation. Their site proposes a very pragmatic veiw that I generally agree with. www.veganoutreach.org http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/beingvegan.html http://www.veganoutreach.org/advocacy/satya.html You may not have meant your original post to have a pessimistic tone, but it does come accross. However, I agree with what I think the general sentiment of your post is: that everyone who is trying to change is at least making an effort and we need to look at what is most effective in Making a Difference and not worry so much about adhering to a strict set of rules. I also agree that in influencing others we will catch more flies with (vegan )honey than vinegar! G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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