Questioning Vegan

[Guest guest]

Hi all.

 

I am an adult woman with a child and husband. We have all been vegans

for many years. For some reason lately I have been questioning

veganism more. I know my husband has as well.

That's why I've decided to join all kinds of mailing lists to get all

kinds of perspectives on concerns or just feelings I have been having.

I will then post all relevant responses on a website if anyone is

interested.

 

Ok I think part of my questioning is for selfish reasons, mainly that

by even allowing myself to question veganism, I have opened myself up

to the possibility of eating dairy products again which is something I

have not done for years. By being in this frame of mine, I find

myself entertaining so many delicious possibilities for food choices

that I have not, nor never thought I would have again. When you

believe in what you are doing very strongly and don't even entertain

the possibility of anything else then it's not hard but like I said

that hasn't been the case lately.

 

I have started really absorbing the fact that to even exist, there is

no way to prevent contributing to animal cruelty because just about

every material possession we have probably in some way caused a living

being to suffer or die.

 

I also feel very badly for my child who has been a vegan for as long

as he can remember. I have tried to explain to him why we choose this

lifestyle but I know he still feels like an outsider in so many

situations. I know that sometimes in life, we have to sacrifice for

the greater good. Of course I know that. That's why I chose the

lifestyle I have, but I just don't know how much good I'm really doing

and I just don't know if the immense amount of inconvenience my family

and I have gone through is worth the amount of good we are doing.

 

My son is happy in many ways and I know he is lucky, especially in

comparison to so many animals that go through such horrific tragedies

because of the selfish human race. I don't want to be part of the

uncaring people who take part in their suffering but I don't believe I

can avoid it anyway so I find myself wondering what the hell I am

really doing.

 

If I could snap my fingers and make the entire meat/dairy industry go

away, I would do it in a minute. I would cut off a limb for that to

happen, I swear. It's not that I don't HATE it all. Like I said, I

just don't know if the small amount I'm probably contributing is worth

it all. And also, the arguments saying that eating the products I do

eat that I believe are more humane, actually contribute to animal

suffering in some way, really make me question the amount of good I'm

really doing.

 

I always thought that I would always be a vegan and that still may

very well be the case. Sometimes you just need a kick in the butt and

in some part that's what I'm reaching out for. But mainly, I'm

wanting to really truly examine my choices and see if I can in good

conscience choose a different lifestyle or to be convinced that this

is in fact making a difference and enough of a difference to continue on.

 

I will post this in different types of communities to get all sorts of

opinions.

I have so much more to say that has been running through my mind but

for some reason I'm drawing a blank at this particular moment so I'll

just let this email start it all off and add more as responses to

replies. I'm sure there will be plenty because like I said, I am going

to be posting this to many mailing lists.

 

 

Sincerely,

ExistingHuman

[Guest guest]

First: have you read any of John Robbins' books? I think the key to thinking

about this is thinking about all the aggregate effect that all us vegans make. I

think we're growing in numbers, and sooner or later, people will realize that

every new nutritional study that comes out, basically says (w/o coming out &

admitting it) that we should all be vegan. (You know, beans, vegetables & whole

grains are good for you, the mediterranean diet is good for you, nuts are good

for you.) When's the last time you heard a study that said we should all eat

more meat & dairy? So, even asside from the ethical issues, veganism is just

plain healthier.

 

Also, I don't know what a vegan could be eating that could be contributing to

animal suffereing - I'm wondering where you heard that.

 

Also, I assume you're all getting a source of B-12; that's important.

 

Even if we can't avoid animal products in our lives, we're still contributing

thru our veganism.

 

Also, have you seen all the great vegan cookbooks that have yummy vegan desserts

you can make? I don't know where you live. Is there a food co-op or natural

foods store nearby? There's a place near me in DC called " Sticky Fingers

Bakery, " which has all kind of delicious things. You can order stuff from them.

Here's their website: http://www.stickyfingersbakery.com/

 

Hope this helps.

 

-Amy

-

sometimesimcold

Saturday, October 16, 2004 1:36 PM

Questioning Vegan

 

 

 

 

Hi all.

 

I am an adult woman with a child and husband. We have all been vegans

for many years. For some reason lately I have been questioning

veganism more. I know my husband has as well.

That's why I've decided to join all kinds of mailing lists to get all

kinds of perspectives on concerns or just feelings I have been having.

I will then post all relevant responses on a website if anyone is

interested.

 

Ok I think part of my questioning is for selfish reasons, mainly that

by even allowing myself to question veganism, I have opened myself up

to the possibility of eating dairy products again which is something I

have not done for years. By being in this frame of mine, I find

myself entertaining so many delicious possibilities for food choices

that I have not, nor never thought I would have again. When you

believe in what you are doing very strongly and don't even entertain

the possibility of anything else then it's not hard but like I said

that hasn't been the case lately.

 

I have started really absorbing the fact that to even exist, there is

no way to prevent contributing to animal cruelty because just about

every material possession we have probably in some way caused a living

being to suffer or die.

 

I also feel very badly for my child who has been a vegan for as long

as he can remember. I have tried to explain to him why we choose this

lifestyle but I know he still feels like an outsider in so many

situations. I know that sometimes in life, we have to sacrifice for

the greater good. Of course I know that. That's why I chose the

lifestyle I have, but I just don't know how much good I'm really doing

and I just don't know if the immense amount of inconvenience my family

and I have gone through is worth the amount of good we are doing.

 

My son is happy in many ways and I know he is lucky, especially in

comparison to so many animals that go through such horrific tragedies

because of the selfish human race. I don't want to be part of the

uncaring people who take part in their suffering but I don't believe I

can avoid it anyway so I find myself wondering what the hell I am

really doing.

 

If I could snap my fingers and make the entire meat/dairy industry go

away, I would do it in a minute. I would cut off a limb for that to

happen, I swear. It's not that I don't HATE it all. Like I said, I

just don't know if the small amount I'm probably contributing is worth

it all. And also, the arguments saying that eating the products I do

eat that I believe are more humane, actually contribute to animal

suffering in some way, really make me question the amount of good I'm

really doing.

 

I always thought that I would always be a vegan and that still may

very well be the case. Sometimes you just need a kick in the butt and

in some part that's what I'm reaching out for. But mainly, I'm

wanting to really truly examine my choices and see if I can in good

conscience choose a different lifestyle or to be convinced that this

is in fact making a difference and enough of a difference to continue on.

 

I will post this in different types of communities to get all sorts of

opinions.

I have so much more to say that has been running through my mind but

for some reason I'm drawing a blank at this particular moment so I'll

just let this email start it all off and add more as responses to

replies. I'm sure there will be plenty because like I said, I am going

to be posting this to many mailing lists.

 

 

Sincerely,

ExistingHuman

 

 

 

 

 

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

List owner: -owner

 

Shortcut URL to this page:

/community/

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear ExistingHuman,

 

>Sometimes you just need a kick in the butt and in some part that's what

>I'm reaching out for. But mainly, I'm wanting to really truly examine my

>choices and see if I can in good conscience choose a different lifestyle

>or to be convinced that this is in fact making a difference and enough of

>a difference to continue on.

 

I think it really does make a difference to the world when someone chooses

not to eat meat, dairy, etc. The meat and dairy industries make products to

suit their customers' tastes. But think back ten years or more: it was then

far more difficult to find plant milks in stores or in cafes than it is

now. This change is due to consumer demand, and we each make a difference.

 

Consider this. Krispy Kreme (the doughnut company) is in a financial mess,

partly (though not entirely) due to falling sales because so many people

are avoiding carbohydrates. Personally, I think Atkins and South Beach fans

are nutritionally misguided, but their purchasing decisions have made a

difference. And Krispy Kreme is not the only company feeling this effect.

 

I hope that the small, but growing trend towards plant milks will one day

lead to a similar change in the dairy market. This might not happen in our

lifetimes, but we will have made a difference.

 

Whether you can in good conscience choose a different lifestyle is your

choice. Fortunately, choosing a plant-based diet is not akin to choosing a

religion, so I have no scripture to " kick you in the butt " with. If you

want to stick with a basically vegetarian (non-dairy) diet, but

occasionally break out the Häagen-Dazs, I would not criticize you for that,

even though it is not the choice that I make.

 

Good luck with your decision! Perhaps if you specifically tell us which

foods you are craving, we could all suggest some delicious alternatives

that do not involve animal protein.

 

Gerry

[Guest guest]

Hello Dear,

 

 

 

I'm sorry you're going through this conflict!

 

 

 

I’ve been a vegetarian for almost three years, and a vegan for few months.

Becoming a vegan was an essential and very important step in completing the way

of thinking I was fully convinced with. Eating dairy products after I have made

a choice of not eating meat just didn’t make sense to me! I just could not

separate animal products/ingredients from the cruel meat industry. I didn’t

feel that I was sacrificing anything. I, rather, felt that I owe it to those

poor animals not to contribute to their misery and suffering.

 

 

 

Becoming a vegan was hard for me at the beginning because I was not aware of all

the alternatives out there; but since you are already a vegan for many years,

I'm sure you are very well aware of the many alternatives to eggs, milk and

products that contain animal ingredients. I have came across many good vegan

cooking websites and purchased couple of cook books that are helping me greatly

in exploring many delicious dishes. I was craving omelets for a long time now,

and only yesterday I made and enjoyed eating a very tasty tofu “omelet.” Also,

shopping at compassionate stores in my area, such as Mother’s market and Trader

Joe’s, helped facilitating my shopping by providing an ample of vegan and

cruelty free products. Furthermore, shopping at vegan stores on line couldn’t

get any easier! I still indulge myself in eating those delicious soy ice

creams from Trader Joe's, the tofu “cream Cheese”, cook with vegan butter and

still make my favorite Alfredo pasta dish with soy milk.

I still enjoy eating vegan chocolate, “cheese” cake and anything you can think

of, you can either purchase or make without using the real milk or eggs.

 

 

 

Any animal product/ingredient we buy, does indeed contribute to the profit

margin of the cruel meat industry as a whole, and every purchase of egg, milk,

or any products that contains animal ingredient is an action of approval on our

part.

 

 

 

Please check out this website:

 

http://veganoutreach.com/whyvegan/animals.html

 

 

 

After you check out this website, you will soon realize that you, me and all the

people out there who decided to become vegans, are indeed making a big

difference! And if you do not think that we are making a difference, just think

about it the following way. Remember why you really became vegan. You did not

become vegan so you could turn the whole world in to vegans by a snap of your

finger, you turned vegan because you felt that not being vegan was being cruel

to animals and i want you to remember that this particular fact has not changed.

If you believed in the past that taking a sip of milk was harming a baby animal

and his mother, do you believe that particular fact has changed? And I'm not

looking for you to answer this question for me, just ask it to yourself, dear.

Because the more you forget about these questions, the more demoralized you

feel. Why? Because the cause is in the questions, the determination is in the

answers, and the real help and salvation for animals

is in your action, not in your snapping of your fingers or cutting an arm off

to save the animals of the world.

 

 

 

Believe me, my dear, that sort of a wish or statement that you made when you

said " I would cut an arm off to save all the animals of the world " is something

I can relate to, a statement which I have often said in my moments of despair,

but I always knew deep inside that it was unrealistic and unproductive. You

know that cutting your arms off would not do any good, although I know you meant

it as a matter of symbolism. But please picture with me the inconvenience and

agony you would have to live with for the rest of your life with a maimed arm as

compared to the inconvenience you are experiencing by being a vegan. Being

vegan doesn't even come close to being mutilated.

 

 

 

I feel for you very much when you were talking about the alienation your child

feels and I felt really sad. It really breaks my heart, especially that I don't

know how I will feel when I have a child to raise with this life style, but if I

may imagine how it maybe like, I will say the following. Yes, it can get

daunting and alienating at times, especially when you have a child to grow up

among children that have been socialized to glorify eating meat and to enjoy it

and celebrate it, but the reality is that the morality of veganism or any other

humanitarian action is in the consistency and persistence because you have

started the change in this world when you changed yourself. You have started to

make the difference when you made that difference in your life. If you start to

revert back to what you were doing, you are basically saying, " I give up on all

these poor animals because I walked some distance and I'm now tired. "

 

 

 

Whenever you wish to eat a diary product, please remember that you are not alone

in these wishes. I'm there too! And I know it's agonizing and I wish I could

give you a hug right now and some ice cream from my freezer. It's all vegan ice

cream, and my husband, who is not vegan and who never liked ice cream, is now

addicted to my soy ice cream. We have almond milk that tastes delicious. My

husband's mother makes for him all the dishes, that were once made with meat,

with vegan alternatives and his whole family are just in love with it because it

tastes even better. Although non of them is vegetarian or vegan. The point

I'm trying to make here is that change is a chain reaction. I am vegan, my

husband is not, but he's almost vegan. His family is not vegetarian, but they

entertain the idea of eating vegetarian food. so the point is that, there is an

effect that is going beyond our personal lives only and that is the real victory

we are making. The victory is not by turning

all humanity into vegans over night, but rather by turning it one person at a

time.

 

Good luck on whatever choice you make.

 

Sincerely,

 

Suha

 

 

 

sometimesimcold <thatisthequestion wrote:

 

 

Hi all.

 

I am an adult woman with a child and husband. We have all been vegans

for many years. For some reason lately I have been questioning

veganism more. I know my husband has as well.

That's why I've decided to join all kinds of mailing lists to get all

kinds of perspectives on concerns or just feelings I have been having.

I will then post all relevant responses on a website if anyone is

interested.

 

Ok I think part of my questioning is for selfish reasons, mainly that

by even allowing myself to question veganism, I have opened myself up

to the possibility of eating dairy products again which is something I

have not done for years. By being in this frame of mine, I find

myself entertaining so many delicious possibilities for food choices

that I have not, nor never thought I would have again. When you

believe in what you are doing very strongly and don't even entertain

the possibility of anything else then it's not hard but like I said

that hasn't been the case lately.

 

I have started really absorbing the fact that to even exist, there is

no way to prevent contributing to animal cruelty because just about

every material possession we have probably in some way caused a living

being to suffer or die.

 

I also feel very badly for my child who has been a vegan for as long

as he can remember. I have tried to explain to him why we choose this

lifestyle but I know he still feels like an outsider in so many

situations. I know that sometimes in life, we have to sacrifice for

the greater good. Of course I know that. That's why I chose the

lifestyle I have, but I just don't know how much good I'm really doing

and I just don't know if the immense amount of inconvenience my family

and I have gone through is worth the amount of good we are doing.

 

My son is happy in many ways and I know he is lucky, especially in

comparison to so many animals that go through such horrific tragedies

because of the selfish human race. I don't want to be part of the

uncaring people who take part in their suffering but I don't believe I

can avoid it anyway so I find myself wondering what the hell I am

really doing.

 

If I could snap my fingers and make the entire meat/dairy industry go

away, I would do it in a minute. I would cut off a limb for that to

happen, I swear. It's not that I don't HATE it all. Like I said, I

just don't know if the small amount I'm probably contributing is worth

it all. And also, the arguments saying that eating the products I do

eat that I believe are more humane, actually contribute to animal

suffering in some way, really make me question the amount of good I'm

really doing.

 

I always thought that I would always be a vegan and that still may

very well be the case. Sometimes you just need a kick in the butt and

in some part that's what I'm reaching out for. But mainly, I'm

wanting to really truly examine my choices and see if I can in good

conscience choose a different lifestyle or to be convinced that this

is in fact making a difference and enough of a difference to continue on.

 

I will post this in different types of communities to get all sorts of

opinions.

I have so much more to say that has been running through my mind but

for some reason I'm drawing a blank at this particular moment so I'll

just let this email start it all off and add more as responses to

replies. I'm sure there will be plenty because like I said, I am going

to be posting this to many mailing lists.

 

 

Sincerely,

ExistingHuman

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Post message:

Subscribe: -

Un: -

List owner: -owner

 

Shortcut URL to this page:

/community/

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear ExistingHuman,

Having been a vegan for 22 years, and with 2 young vegan children, I can

sympathise with your dilemma. Often I too have questioned veganism and asked

myself 'what's the point??' (not an unhealthy thing to do, incidentally).

Also, due to the poor example that some vegans give to the rest of the

community, I have at times wished I was not part of the 'vegan' sub-culture.

Unlike many vegans, I did enjoy meat, dairy and eggs when I used to eat

them, and I don't relish being different from the mainstream (although as a

vegan atheist, I suppose that's inevitable!).

 

Given that slaughterhouse by-products are all around us, in tyres, roads,

film, etc, does it matter if we boycott meat, eggs and dairy? Yes, a boycott

of animal products, where practical and possible, to satisfy your own

conscience and to provide a positive example is important, but not to a

totally obsessive degree. My rule of thumb is this: if a (mainly vegan) food

product contains a miniscule amount of whey powder, egg albumen, or

whatever, then eating it is ethical in the sense that it still constitutes a

boycott of animal industries. The tiny amount of dairy or other will not

sustain those industries. For example, a type of soy cheese with a small

amount of casein (milk protein) in it is still an ethical product by my

reckoning, since if (theoretically) everyone ate it instead of cow cheese,

then the casein alone would not sustain the dairy industry, and (eventually)

some casein substitute would be found. Also, if far more people chose mainly

non-animal alternatives, the market for them would skyrocket and make such

products cheaper and more accessible. Of course, what someone can personally

live with is up to them, but to me, the boycott of the key animal industries

(ie not eating meat, animal-milk, animal-cheese, eggs etc) is what really

counts, rather than obsessing about tiny amounts of by-products.

 

Do I think most people in countries like the US and Australia will go

vegetarian, let alone vegan in the forseeable future? No way! Do I think

change is possible? Certainly. Not politically, however - our conservative

Liberal (Liberal means conservative, not progressive, in Australia)

government (Prime Minister John Howard is a staunch Bush ally) was returned

in a recent general election with an increased majority, despite serious

concerns about our involvement in Iraq (yes, we Aussies are fully paid-up

members of the 'coalition of the willing'), treatment of refugees, and

woodchipping of old-growth forests (the Labor party here -they're a bit like

your Democrats- promised just prior to the election to halt cutting down of

old-growth forests in the (beautiful) wilderness areas of Tasmania (our most

southern island-state), and then promptly lost 2 key seats in that state as

timber unions sided with Howard and the Liberals). Our Green party, that

Peter Singer has been involved with, advocated eating less meat and more

tofu, and was mercilessly lampooned by our media here (example of one

'joke': " The Greens have recently been accused of tofu-barrelling! " -instead

of pork-barrelling, ....get it??) , and currently have only 3 senators in

government and no say in forming legislation.

 

So, given that Australia and the US are pretty conservative politically, is

vegan-ism a marketable commodity? Certainly not as 'veganism', or even

'vegetarianism', but as a healthy lifestyle option, definitely yes. One

example here in Australia is soy milk. Before 1986 no soymilk was produced

here, then our biggest health food company, Sanitarium (a bit like Loma

Linda in the US) brought out 'So Good' soymilk that has become a

market-leader in a very lucrative industry. Most people who now have soymilk

and other similar products are not vegans, or even vegetarians, but want a

healthier option, or without potential lactose intolerances associated with

cow milk.

 

My advice is 1. Don't try to 'convert' people to being veggie, but encourage

them to 'try' healthy, tasty options, and 2. Don't focus on the animal

cruelty aspect. In my experience, even decent, 'animal loving' people don't

really care enough about farm animals to not eat them. Give them something

that is similar to what they're used to (ie meat/milk substitutes), tastes

good, and is healthy, then they'll start to incorporate that into their

everyday lifestyle. Positively promoting non-animal food and other products

that appeal to people's self-interest is the only way to go, I believe, if

you're serious about having a real impact. If most people ate even a bit

more vegan food, it would have a huge impact, not only on the viability of

animal industries, but on the viability of non-animal products to compete.

 

As far as kids are concerned, yes, that is a toughie. However, I must say

that my three (nearly four) year-old daughter already understands about

animals being killed for food, and is stricter than my wife or me when it

comes to not having anything that's not 100% vegan! All you can do is

provide a good example to your kids, educate them (appropriately) about why

you're vegan, and encourage them to make up their own mind. Forcing them (or

anyone) to be vegan doesn't ultimately work, but I believe if they gradually

become aware of the vileness of animal industries they will choose to be at

least vegetarian, if not vegan. For some articles written by my wife Kerryn

about raising a baby as a vegan, go to this part of my website:

http://www.vegecentric.com.au/clubveg.htm -see 'Having My (vegan) Baby'

articles linked to that web page.

 

Anyway, best of luck with your veganism, and remember, even if you stray a

bit now and then, don't beat yourself up about it too much. As long as

you're generally consistent with your own ethics, and avoid most animal

products, that's great. People should be encouraged to do as much as they

can do in a practical sense, rather than be berated for not being 'pure'

enough.

 

Best wishes,

Tom Perry

www.vegecentric.com.au

 

 

-

" sometimesimcold " <thatisthequestion

 

Sunday, October 17, 2004 3:36 AM

Questioning Vegan

 

 

>

>

>

> Hi all.

>

> I am an adult woman with a child and husband. We have all been vegans

> for many years. For some reason lately I have been questioning

> veganism more. I know my husband has as well.

> That's why I've decided to join all kinds of mailing lists to get all

> kinds of perspectives on concerns or just feelings I have been having.

> I will then post all relevant responses on a website if anyone is

> interested.

>

> Ok I think part of my questioning is for selfish reasons, mainly that

> by even allowing myself to question veganism, I have opened myself up

> to the possibility of eating dairy products again which is something I

> have not done for years. By being in this frame of mine, I find

> myself entertaining so many delicious possibilities for food choices

> that I have not, nor never thought I would have again. When you

> believe in what you are doing very strongly and don't even entertain

> the possibility of anything else then it's not hard but like I said

> that hasn't been the case lately.

>

> I have started really absorbing the fact that to even exist, there is

> no way to prevent contributing to animal cruelty because just about

> every material possession we have probably in some way caused a living

> being to suffer or die.

>

> I also feel very badly for my child who has been a vegan for as long

> as he can remember. I have tried to explain to him why we choose this

> lifestyle but I know he still feels like an outsider in so many

> situations. I know that sometimes in life, we have to sacrifice for

> the greater good. Of course I know that. That's why I chose the

> lifestyle I have, but I just don't know how much good I'm really doing

> and I just don't know if the immense amount of inconvenience my family

> and I have gone through is worth the amount of good we are doing.

>

> My son is happy in many ways and I know he is lucky, especially in

> comparison to so many animals that go through such horrific tragedies

> because of the selfish human race. I don't want to be part of the

> uncaring people who take part in their suffering but I don't believe I

> can avoid it anyway so I find myself wondering what the hell I am

> really doing.

>

> If I could snap my fingers and make the entire meat/dairy industry go

> away, I would do it in a minute. I would cut off a limb for that to

> happen, I swear. It's not that I don't HATE it all. Like I said, I

> just don't know if the small amount I'm probably contributing is worth

> it all. And also, the arguments saying that eating the products I do

> eat that I believe are more humane, actually contribute to animal

> suffering in some way, really make me question the amount of good I'm

> really doing.

>

> I always thought that I would always be a vegan and that still may

> very well be the case. Sometimes you just need a kick in the butt and

> in some part that's what I'm reaching out for. But mainly, I'm

> wanting to really truly examine my choices and see if I can in good

> conscience choose a different lifestyle or to be convinced that this

> is in fact making a difference and enough of a difference to continue on.

>

> I will post this in different types of communities to get all sorts of

> opinions.

> I have so much more to say that has been running through my mind but

> for some reason I'm drawing a blank at this particular moment so I'll

> just let this email start it all off and add more as responses to

> replies. I'm sure there will be plenty because like I said, I am going

> to be posting this to many mailing lists.

>

>

> Sincerely,

> ExistingHuman

>

 

> Post message:

> Subscribe: -

> Un: -

> List owner: -owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /community/

>

[Guest guest]

A moment of faith. Of temptation. Its your choice. You might want to

explore more soy products.

 

For you child, you've given them a gift of being a part of the world,

and a healthier life. In counties where they don't drink milk there is

no osteoporosis. Reduced cancer later in life. Much less hormones that

does who knows what.

And are we sure we don't have made cow disease in milk> Do you trust

the FDA.

It's very contaminated. You've done something wonderful

 

I miss spinich pizza. I probably miss other things that are bad for

me. Some drugs would also be fun.

 

Choices. You've done great.

 

sometimesimcold wrote:

 

>

>

> Hi all.

>

> I am an adult woman with a child and husband. We have all been vegans

> for many years. For some reason lately I have been questioning

> veganism more. I know my husband has as well.

> That's why I've decided to join all kinds of mailing lists to get all

> kinds of perspectives on concerns or just feelings I have been having.

> I will then post all relevant responses on a website if anyone is

> interested.

>

> Ok I think part of my questioning is for selfish reasons, mainly that

> by even allowing myself to question veganism, I have opened myself up

> to the possibility of eating dairy products again which is something I

> have not done for years. By being in this frame of mine, I find

> myself entertaining so many delicious possibilities for food choices

> that I have not, nor never thought I would have again. When you

> believe in what you are doing very strongly and don't even entertain

> the possibility of anything else then it's not hard but like I said

> that hasn't been the case lately.

>

> I have started really absorbing the fact that to even exist, there is

> no way to prevent contributing to animal cruelty because just about

> every material possession we have probably in some way caused a living

> being to suffer or die.

>

> I also feel very badly for my child who has been a vegan for as long

> as he can remember. I have tried to explain to him why we choose this

> lifestyle but I know he still feels like an outsider in so many

> situations. I know that sometimes in life, we have to sacrifice for

> the greater good. Of course I know that. That's why I chose the

> lifestyle I have, but I just don't know how much good I'm really doing

> and I just don't know if the immense amount of inconvenience my family

> and I have gone through is worth the amount of good we are doing.

>

> My son is happy in many ways and I know he is lucky, especially in

> comparison to so many animals that go through such horrific tragedies

> because of the selfish human race. I don't want to be part of the

> uncaring people who take part in their suffering but I don't believe I

> can avoid it anyway so I find myself wondering what the hell I am

> really doing.

>

> If I could snap my fingers and make the entire meat/dairy industry go

> away, I would do it in a minute. I would cut off a limb for that to

> happen, I swear. It's not that I don't HATE it all. Like I said, I

> just don't know if the small amount I'm probably contributing is worth

> it all. And also, the arguments saying that eating the products I do

> eat that I believe are more humane, actually contribute to animal

> suffering in some way, really make me question the amount of good I'm

> really doing.

>

> I always thought that I would always be a vegan and that still may

> very well be the case. Sometimes you just need a kick in the butt and

> in some part that's what I'm reaching out for. But mainly, I'm

> wanting to really truly examine my choices and see if I can in good

> conscience choose a different lifestyle or to be convinced that this

> is in fact making a difference and enough of a difference to continue on.

>

> I will post this in different types of communities to get all sorts of

> opinions.

> I have so much more to say that has been running through my mind but

> for some reason I'm drawing a blank at this particular moment so I'll

> just let this email start it all off and add more as responses to

> replies. I'm sure there will be plenty because like I said, I am going

> to be posting this to many mailing lists.

>

>

> Sincerely,

> ExistingHuman

 

> Post message:

> Subscribe: -

> Un: -

> List owner: -owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /community/

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have sometimes questioned whether it's worth it to me too.

 

And I have actually at times, permitted myself to taste the food item tempting

me, rarely, because it has only convinced me all the more that maintaining a

low-fat, whole foods vegan lifestyle is right for me.

 

Once many year ago, I had a spoonful of a shrimp bisque (a creamy soup). It was

tastey in a way, but nothing like as delectable as I had been hoping... and then

the thought of what I was attempting to eat repulsed me. It was easy to stop

and return to the low-fat, whole foods vegan diet.

 

I've been eating a low-fat whole foods vegan diet for about 20 years now. Just

this past week actually, I tried a bite of an east Indian dessert made with

milk. That bite was all I could manage. It was delicious... *TOO* delicious.

The intense sweet, rich flavour was amazing but every cell of my being was

screaming at me about how bad it was for me. I had to stop after that one bite.

It was just too much. I was easily able to put the rest aside, more satisfied

than ever that I am making the right choice for myself, eating a low-fat whole

foods vegan diet. It is what is kindest and more gentle for me.

 

It's just so cool that the diet that is healthiest for humans is also the

kindest to animals.

 

I raised my daughter from the age of about 2 years old vegan. She was often

sick before we started the low-fat vegan diet, and RARELY after that. It's

worth it, just for the health advantage alone, in addition to the fact that it

is also the most ethical and most ecological way to eat.

 

In any case, you really must do what you feel is right for you.

 

Do you take a sufficient source of vitamin B12? I have often found that after a

number of years of NOT taking it, that in itself seems to be a very important

issue that tempts people back to animal products. Please ensure you are getting

a proper intake and maintaining a good blood level of B12, and I think your

cravings for animal products MIGHT disappear.

 

Best wishes...

 

Deborah

 

 

> Hi all.

>

> I am an adult woman with a child and husband. We have all been vegans

> for many years. For some reason lately I have been questioning

> veganism more. I know my husband has as well. <snip>

> Sincerely,

> ExistingHuman

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

First, of all, I admire the fact that you’ve even opened yourself up to

explore these questions. It’s a true sign of strength AND courage. It

sounds that you are just wanting a bit of reaffirmation of your lifestyle

decision.

 

 

 

It all goes to your core values and what is important to you and your

contribution to the world. So now after many years, you have a bit of

doubt of your decision. If we all looked at the world and got REAL about

how we affect things, some would just give up. The problems looks too big

and overwhelming and one person (it seems) will not even make a dent into

the solution of the problem… ah ha…that’s where individuals in society make

their mistake.

 

 

 

For you see, that which we CAN control IS our personal lifestyle and the

“world” in which we make a huge impact is in our own homes. And that

cohesiveness of value and lifestyle is like a ROCK in the middle of the

pond…creating an impact that is to be felt and the ripple effect WILL affect

the entire world. Gently, little by little the ripple effect continues

until it’s felt and experienced by all. So, the impact of your decision

is important. #1 to you and then to your family and it goes from there.

 

 

 

There are lots of reasons to avoid meat/dairy…many diseases linked to

steroids and other drugs being fed to animals..dead animal by-products being

fed back to animals…totally gross stuff. And anybody who doesn’t think

that practice isn’t going to come back to bite us in the backside…is grossly

mistaken. Even our water supply is compromised.

 

 

 

What goes around, comes around. Whatever WE put out into the universe will

come back to us. “Do unto others as we want done unto us” is an age-old

teaching that seems to sum it all up. You’ve made a decision to sustain

yourself through those foods/products that do not harm animals. It takes

great courage and strength to stand for something….even if it seems you are

alone. And there is consolation in knowing that you ARE making a

difference and you are not truly alone in your beliefs.

 

 

 

Did I help?

 

 

 

 

 

Charlene Malsom, I.C. Executive Dist Manager

 

v.m. cell: 303-906-6072

 

Visit my website: <http://www.deogracias.myarbonne.com>

www.deogracias.myarbonne.com

 

Call <http://www.deogracias.myarbonne.com/> Arbonne Sizzle Call

(prerecorded) 732-463-6380 Box #190-

Call today. The recording is only 8 minutes long but could change your life

 

forever!

 

 

4GR8SKIN - Get Arbonne! Certified Vegan Skin Care!

 

What do you want more, better or different? Call me now and ask how!

 

 

 

_____

 

On

Behalf Of Bob C

Monday, July 11, 2005 8:02 PM

 

Re: Questioning Vegan

 

 

 

 

A moment of faith. Of temptation. Its your choice. You might want to

explore more soy products.

 

For you child, you've given them a gift of being a part of the world,

and a healthier life. In counties where they don't drink milk there is

no osteoporosis. Reduced cancer later in life. Much less hormones that

does who knows what.

And are we sure we don't have made cow disease in milk> Do you trust

the FDA.

It's very contaminated. You've done something wonderful

 

I miss spinich pizza. I probably miss other things that are bad for

me. Some drugs would also be fun.

 

Choices. You've done great.

 

sometimesimcold wrote:

 

>

>

> Hi all.

>

> I am an adult woman with a child and husband. We have all been vegans

> for many years. For some reason lately I have been questioning

> veganism more. I know my husband has as well.

> That's why I've decided to join all kinds of mailing lists to get all

> kinds of perspectives on concerns or just feelings I have been having.

> I will then post all relevant responses on a website if anyone is

> interested.

>

> Ok I think part of my questioning is for selfish reasons, mainly that

> by even allowing myself to question veganism, I have opened myself up

> to the possibility of eating dairy products again which is something I

> have not done for years. By being in this frame of mine, I find

> myself entertaining so many delicious possibilities for food choices

> that I have not, nor never thought I would have again. When you

> believe in what you are doing very strongly and don't even entertain

> the possibility of anything else then it's not hard but like I said

> that hasn't been the case lately.

>

> I have started really absorbing the fact that to even exist, there is

> no way to prevent contributing to animal cruelty because just about

> every material possession we have probably in some way caused a living

> being to suffer or die.

>

> I also feel very badly for my child who has been a vegan for as long

> as he can remember. I have tried to explain to him why we choose this

> lifestyle but I know he still feels like an outsider in so many

> situations. I know that sometimes in life, we have to sacrifice for

> the greater good. Of course I know that. That's why I chose the

> lifestyle I have, but I just don't know how much good I'm really doing

> and I just don't know if the immense amount of inconvenience my family

> and I have gone through is worth the amount of good we are doing.

>

> My son is happy in many ways and I know he is lucky, especially in

> comparison to so many animals that go through such horrific tragedies

> because of the selfish human race. I don't want to be part of the

> uncaring people who take part in their suffering but I don't believe I

> can avoid it anyway so I find myself wondering what the hell I am

> really doing.

>

> If I could snap my fingers and make the entire meat/dairy industry go

> away, I would do it in a minute. I would cut off a limb for that to

> happen, I swear. It's not that I don't HATE it all. Like I said, I

> just don't know if the small amount I'm probably contributing is worth

> it all. And also, the arguments saying that eating the products I do

> eat that I believe are more humane, actually contribute to animal

> suffering in some way, really make me question the amount of good I'm

> really doing.

>

> I always thought that I would always be a vegan and that still may

> very well be the case. Sometimes you just need a kick in the butt and

> in some part that's what I'm reaching out for. But mainly, I'm

> wanting to really truly examine my choices and see if I can in good

> conscience choose a different lifestyle or to be convinced that this

> is in fact making a difference and enough of a difference to continue on.

>

> I will post this in different types of communities to get all sorts of

> opinions.

> I have so much more to say that has been running through my mind but

> for some reason I'm drawing a blank at this particular moment so I'll

> just let this email start it all off and add more as responses to

> replies. I'm sure there will be plenty because like I said, I am going

> to be posting this to many mailing lists.

>

>

> Sincerely,

> ExistingHuman

 

> Post message:

> Subscribe: -

> Un: -

> List owner: -owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /community/

>

>

>