Guest guest Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Hi List, Just wanted to give a quick health update to anyone on a vegan diet as I am. Here's the update, make sure you take plenty of sublingual B-12 every day. Also, make sure you take extra B-6, and extra Folic acid everyday as well. All three of the things can keep your heart healthy. Click link below to see why. Don't ignore this advice. It's very crucial for all vegans to be aware of this, as low B-12 levels can lead to heart disease! Gary Null pushes this big time too. Make sure and tell any other vegans you know about this also. Be a smart vegan, not a dumb vegan. (-: Click here > http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/hcy Peace, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2005 Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 Wait a minute!! I thought that Vitamin B12 is from an animal origin! Rick Stevens <ecology1st2004 wrote:Hi List, Just wanted to give a quick health update to anyone on a vegan diet as I am. Here's the update, make sure you take plenty of sublingual B-12 every day. Also, make sure you take extra B-6, and extra Folic acid everyday as well. All three of the things can keep your heart healthy. Click link below to see why. Don't ignore this advice. It's very crucial for all vegans to be aware of this, as low B-12 levels can lead to heart disease! Gary Null pushes this big time too. Make sure and tell any other vegans you know about this also. Be a smart vegan, not a dumb vegan. (-: Click here > http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/hcy Peace, Rick Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2005 Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 When the vitamin companies make it, they don't need to use animal sources to do so. So, it's still vegan. Take the sublingual form, it's the easiest to absorb. Rick , Suha Sleibi <tafraneh> wrote: > Wait a minute!! I thought that Vitamin B12 is from an animal origin! > > Rick Stevens <ecology1st2004> wrote:Hi List, > > Just wanted to give a quick health update to anyone on > a vegan diet as I am. Here's the update, make sure you > take plenty of sublingual B-12 every day. Also, make > sure you take extra B-6, and extra Folic acid everyday > as well. All three of the things can keep your heart > healthy. Click link below to see why. Don't ignore > this advice. It's very crucial for all vegans to be > aware of this, as low B-12 levels can lead to heart > disease! Gary Null pushes this big time too. Make sure > and tell any other vegans you know about this also. Be > a smart vegan, not a dumb vegan. (-: > > Click here > http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/hcy > > Peace, > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/ > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 >Suha Sleibi >Wait a minute!! I thought that Vitamin B12 is from an animal origin! Sublingual B12 supplements are produced in lab conditions by growing cyanobacteria on grasses. And I agree with what Rick said... it's essential for healthy vegetarians to supplement B12. Deborah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 B12 can be, and is, made sythentically. Most fortified foods that contain B12 are made from synthesized (ie non animal) B12 sources. If you don't eat B12, you are putting yourself at very serious risk. Read more here: http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm --- Suha Sleibi <tafraneh wrote: > Wait a minute!! I thought that Vitamin B12 is from > an animal origin! > > Rick Stevens <ecology1st2004 wrote:Hi > List, > > Just wanted to give a quick health update to anyone > on > a vegan diet as I am. Here's the update, make sure > you > take plenty of sublingual B-12 every day. Also, make > sure you take extra B-6, and extra Folic acid > everyday > as well. All three of the things can keep your heart > healthy. Click link below to see why. Don't ignore > this advice. It's very crucial for all vegans to be > aware of this, as low B-12 levels can lead to heart > disease! Gary Null pushes this big time too. Make > sure > and tell any other vegans you know about this also. > Be > a smart vegan, not a dumb vegan. (-: > > Click here > http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/hcy > > Peace, > > Rick > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection around > > > > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/ > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Thank you Falafel, Deborah and Rick for this info. I am pregnant now and my prenatal vitamins already contain vitamin B12. But I will make sure in the future to buy B12 supplements and fortified food that contain that vitamin. Thanx again, Suha Deborah Pageau <dpageau wrote: >Suha Sleibi >Wait a minute!! I thought that Vitamin B12 is from an animal origin! Sublingual B12 supplements are produced in lab conditions by growing cyanobacteria on grasses. And I agree with what Rick said... it's essential for healthy vegetarians to supplement B12. Deborah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 I've been a Vegan for 14 years, and I've read quite a lot about the B-12 issue (is synthetic B-12 as good as natural? Although Miso being made in wooden vats has b-12, made in steel vats does it give the same level? eating organic gives you enough because you're bound to eat something " buggy " , marmite/vegemite contains it.....etc. etc.). I've always felt that if I couldn't find it naturally in my diet, it would be a fairly " un-natural " thing to eat a synthetic version. It gives me the same (icky) feeling as when I've read science fiction that claims we'll be eating all of our meals in pill-form sometime in the far-off future. I think I'd rather eat cruelty-free eggs or milk than eat " chemicals " (fortunately, I haven't been forced to as my B-12 level has been ok just using diet). When I read the comments recently posted, that it's critical to supplement - I wonder whether I'm out in the wilderness on this. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I've been wondering about it for a while and don't have many other vegan friends to bounce it off of. Thanks in advance for your input. Keith > Message: 1 > Sat, 8 Jan 2005 20:53:35 -0800 (PST) > Suha Sleibi <tafraneh > Re: Health Alert For Vegans > > Wait a minute!! I thought that Vitamin B12 is from an animal origin! > > Rick Stevens <ecology1st2004 wrote:Hi List, > > Just wanted to give a quick health update to anyone on > a vegan diet as I am. Here's the update, make sure you > take plenty of sublingual B-12 every day. Also, make > sure you take extra B-6, and extra Folic acid everyday > as well. All three of the things can keep your heart > healthy. Click link below to see why. Don't ignore > this advice. It's very crucial for all vegans to be > aware of this, as low B-12 levels can lead to heart > disease! Gary Null pushes this big time too. Make sure > and tell any other vegans you know about this also. Be > a smart vegan, not a dumb vegan. (-: > > Click here > http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/hcy > > Peace, > > Rick > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 I'm under the impression that you can obtain B-12 from tempeh and sea vegetables...any thoughts on this? And I agree with you Keith about using natural means to get vitamins and minerals. I do think synthetic vitamins can be bad.. Janet KEITH LAWRANCE <keithlawrance wrote: I've been a Vegan for 14 years, and I've read quite a lot about the B-12 issue (is synthetic B-12 as good as natural? Although Miso being made in wooden vats has b-12, made in steel vats does it give the same level? eating organic gives you enough because you're bound to eat something " buggy " , marmite/vegemite contains it.....etc. etc.). I've always felt that if I couldn't find it naturally in my diet, it would be a fairly " un-natural " thing to eat a synthetic version. It gives me the same (icky) feeling as when I've read science fiction that claims we'll be eating all of our meals in pill-form sometime in the far-off future. I think I'd rather eat cruelty-free eggs or milk than eat " chemicals " (fortunately, I haven't been forced to as my B-12 level has been ok just using diet). When I read the comments recently posted, that it's critical to supplement - I wonder whether I'm out in the wilderness on this. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I've been wondering about it for a while and don't have many other vegan friends to bounce it off of. Thanks in advance for your input. Keith > Message: 1 > Sat, 8 Jan 2005 20:53:35 -0800 (PST) > Suha Sleibi > Re: Health Alert For Vegans > > Wait a minute!! I thought that Vitamin B12 is from an animal origin! > > Rick Stevens wrote:Hi List, > > Just wanted to give a quick health update to anyone on > a vegan diet as I am. Here's the update, make sure you > take plenty of sublingual B-12 every day. Also, make > sure you take extra B-6, and extra Folic acid everyday > as well. All three of the things can keep your heart > healthy. Click link below to see why. Don't ignore > this advice. It's very crucial for all vegans to be > aware of this, as low B-12 levels can lead to heart > disease! Gary Null pushes this big time too. Make sure > and tell any other vegans you know about this also. Be > a smart vegan, not a dumb vegan. (-: > > Click here > http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/hcy > > Peace, > > Rick > > > Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Hi Janet; B12 is a different case than with other vitamins and minerals. A synthetic form is actually the best. Tempeh and sea vegetables are NOT a reliable form. Obtaining B12 naturally can be done is several ways depending on the physiology of the animal. For example, cows have more than one stomach, so they naturally manufacture their own internally. Having only one stomach, we have to ingest it. In the wild, those of our primate ancestors who do not eat animal products, engage in coprophagy as a potent source of B12. That is a natural method of obtaining it, but I think taking a little pink tablet is a vastly preferrable alterntiave to THAT, even though that is a natural means of obtaining it. :-) Deborah I'm under the impression that you can obtain B-12 from tempeh and sea vegetables...any thoughts on this? And I agree with you Keith about using natural means to get vitamins and minerals. I do think synthetic vitamins can be bad.. Janet KEITH LAWRANCE <keithlawrance wrote: I've been a Vegan for 14 years, and I've read quite a lot about the B-12 issue (is synthetic B-12 as good as natural? Although Miso being made in wooden vats has b-12, made in steel vats does it give the same level? eating organic gives you enough because you're bound to eat something " buggy " , marmite/vegemite contains it.....etc. etc.). I've always felt that if I couldn't find it naturally in my diet, it would be a fairly " un-natural " thing to eat a synthetic version. It gives me the same (icky) feeling as when I've read science fiction that claims we'll be eating all of our meals in pill-form sometime in the far-off future. I think I'd rather eat cruelty-free eggs or milk than eat " chemicals " (fortunately, I haven't been forced to as my B-12 level has been ok just using diet). When I read the comments recently posted, that it's critical to supplement - I wonder whether I'm out in the wilderness on this. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I've been wondering about it for a while and don't have many other vegan friends to bounce it off of. Thanks in advance for your input. Keith > Message: 1 > Sat, 8 Jan 2005 20:53:35 -0800 (PST) > Suha Sleibi > Re: Health Alert For Vegans > > Wait a minute!! I thought that Vitamin B12 is from an animal origin! > > Rick Stevens wrote:Hi List, > > Just wanted to give a quick health update to anyone on > a vegan diet as I am. Here's the update, make sure you > take plenty of sublingual B-12 every day. Also, make > sure you take extra B-6, and extra Folic acid everyday > as well. All three of the things can keep your heart > healthy. Click link below to see why. Don't ignore > this advice. It's very crucial for all vegans to be > aware of this, as low B-12 levels can lead to heart > disease! Gary Null pushes this big time too. Make sure > and tell any other vegans you know about this also. Be > a smart vegan, not a dumb vegan. (-: > > Click here > http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/hcy > > Peace, > > Rick > > > Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Read this webpage > http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/vegansources report on ways to properly get B-12 in your system. Also go to their table of contents for more good info on B-12. It's got tons of B-12 info. Great site. Rick. , " KEITH LAWRANCE " <keithlawrance@r...> wrote: > I've been a Vegan for 14 years, and I've read quite a lot about the B-12 > issue (is synthetic B-12 as good as natural? Although Miso being made in > wooden vats has b-12, made in steel vats does it give the same level? eating > organic gives you enough because you're bound to eat something " buggy " , > marmite/vegemite contains it.....etc. etc.). > > I've always felt that if I couldn't find it naturally in my diet, it would > be a fairly " un-natural " thing to eat a synthetic version. It gives me the > same (icky) feeling as when I've read science fiction that claims we'll be > eating all of our meals in pill-form sometime in the far-off future. I think > I'd rather eat cruelty-free eggs or milk than eat " chemicals " (fortunately, > I haven't been forced to as my B-12 level has been ok just using diet). > > When I read the comments recently posted, that it's critical to supplement - > I wonder whether I'm out in the wilderness on this. > > Does anyone have any opinions on this? I've been wondering about it for a > while and don't have many other vegan friends to bounce it off of. Thanks in > advance for your input. > > Keith > > > > Message: 1 > > Sat, 8 Jan 2005 20:53:35 -0800 (PST) > > Suha Sleibi <tafraneh> > > Re: Health Alert For Vegans > > > > Wait a minute!! I thought that Vitamin B12 is from an animal origin! > > > > Rick Stevens <ecology1st2004> wrote:Hi List, > > > > Just wanted to give a quick health update to anyone on > > a vegan diet as I am. Here's the update, make sure you > > take plenty of sublingual B-12 every day. Also, make > > sure you take extra B-6, and extra Folic acid everyday > > as well. All three of the things can keep your heart > > healthy. Click link below to see why. Don't ignore > > this advice. It's very crucial for all vegans to be > > aware of this, as low B-12 levels can lead to heart > > disease! Gary Null pushes this big time too. Make sure > > and tell any other vegans you know about this also. Be > > a smart vegan, not a dumb vegan. (-: > > > > Click here > http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/hcy > > > > Peace, > > > > Rick > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Only a rare type of tempeh made in Asia has B-12 in it. You cant get it from the tempehs in U.S. stores. Rick , Fluff <flufff_00> wrote: > I'm under the impression that you can obtain B-12 from tempeh and sea vegetables...any thoughts on this? > And I agree with you Keith about using natural means to get vitamins and minerals. I do think synthetic vitamins can be bad.. Janet > > KEITH LAWRANCE <keithlawrance@r...> wrote: > > I've been a Vegan for 14 years, and I've read quite a lot about the B-12 > issue (is synthetic B-12 as good as natural? Although Miso being made in > wooden vats has b-12, made in steel vats does it give the same level? eating > organic gives you enough because you're bound to eat something " buggy " , > marmite/vegemite contains it.....etc. etc.). > > I've always felt that if I couldn't find it naturally in my diet, it would > be a fairly " un-natural " thing to eat a synthetic version. It gives me the > same (icky) feeling as when I've read science fiction that claims we'll be > eating all of our meals in pill-form sometime in the far-off future. I think > I'd rather eat cruelty-free eggs or milk than eat " chemicals " (fortunately, > I haven't been forced to as my B-12 level has been ok just using diet). > > When I read the comments recently posted, that it's critical to supplement - > I wonder whether I'm out in the wilderness on this. > > Does anyone have any opinions on this? I've been wondering about it for a > while and don't have many other vegan friends to bounce it off of. Thanks in > advance for your input. > > Keith > > > > Message: 1 > > Sat, 8 Jan 2005 20:53:35 -0800 (PST) > > Suha Sleibi > > Re: Health Alert For Vegans > > > > Wait a minute!! I thought that Vitamin B12 is from an animal origin! > > > > Rick Stevens wrote:Hi List, > > > > Just wanted to give a quick health update to anyone on > > a vegan diet as I am. Here's the update, make sure you > > take plenty of sublingual B-12 every day. Also, make > > sure you take extra B-6, and extra Folic acid everyday > > as well. All three of the things can keep your heart > > healthy. Click link below to see why. Don't ignore > > this advice. It's very crucial for all vegans to be > > aware of this, as low B-12 levels can lead to heart > > disease! Gary Null pushes this big time too. Make sure > > and tell any other vegans you know about this also. Be > > a smart vegan, not a dumb vegan. (-: > > > > Click here > http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/hcy > > > > Peace, > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Experts generally agree that humans cannot get enough B12 from tempeh and sea vegetables unless large amounts are eaten on a regular basis. On the subject of natural vs. synthetic: we're talking abount a microscopic amount of synthetic entering your system. You most likley breathe in more carbon monoxide walking down the street than what you would ingest in synthetic B12. A vivid imagination is great for science fiction books stories but can damage your health with hypersensitivity. Eat some marmite and be healthy. --- Fluff <flufff_00 wrote: > I'm under the impression that you can obtain B-12 > from tempeh and sea vegetables...any thoughts on > this? > And I agree with you Keith about using natural means > to get vitamins and minerals. I do think synthetic > vitamins can be bad.. Janet > > KEITH LAWRANCE <keithlawrance wrote: > > I've been a Vegan for 14 years, and I've read quite > a lot about the B-12 > issue (is synthetic B-12 as good as natural? > Although Miso being made in > wooden vats has b-12, made in steel vats does it > give the same level? eating > organic gives you enough because you're bound to eat > something " buggy " , > marmite/vegemite contains it.....etc. etc.). > > I've always felt that if I couldn't find it > naturally in my diet, it would > be a fairly " un-natural " thing to eat a synthetic > version. It gives me the > same (icky) feeling as when I've read science > fiction that claims we'll be > eating all of our meals in pill-form sometime in the > far-off future. I think > I'd rather eat cruelty-free eggs or milk than eat > " chemicals " (fortunately, > I haven't been forced to as my B-12 level has been > ok just using diet). > > When I read the comments recently posted, that it's > critical to supplement - > I wonder whether I'm out in the wilderness on this. > > Does anyone have any opinions on this? I've been > wondering about it for a > while and don't have many other vegan friends to > bounce it off of. Thanks in > advance for your input. > > Keith > > > > Message: 1 > > Sat, 8 Jan 2005 20:53:35 -0800 (PST) > > Suha Sleibi > > Re: Health Alert For Vegans > > > > Wait a minute!! I thought that Vitamin B12 is from > an animal origin! > > > > Rick Stevens wrote:Hi List, > > > > Just wanted to give a quick health update to > anyone on > > a vegan diet as I am. Here's the update, make sure > you > > take plenty of sublingual B-12 every day. Also, > make > > sure you take extra B-6, and extra Folic acid > everyday > > as well. All three of the things can keep your > heart > > healthy. Click link below to see why. Don't ignore > > this advice. It's very crucial for all vegans to > be > > aware of this, as low B-12 levels can lead to > heart > > disease! Gary Null pushes this big time too. Make > sure > > and tell any other vegans you know about this > also. Be > > a smart vegan, not a dumb vegan. (-: > > > > Click here > http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/hcy > > > > Peace, > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 After testing, my level s were low pills made no difference, shots were time wasting, so they taught me to inject myself. Easiest solution. By the way, the compound is synthetic. We can give ourselves shots, they try and make it voodo, it's simple. MrFalafel wrote: > Experts generally agree that humans cannot get enough > B12 from tempeh and sea vegetables unless large > amounts are eaten on a regular basis. > > On the subject of natural vs. synthetic: we're talking > abount a microscopic amount of synthetic entering your > system. You most likley breathe in more carbon > monoxide walking down the street than what you would > ingest in synthetic B12. A vivid imagination is great > for science fiction books stories but can damage your > health with hypersensitivity. Eat some marmite and be > healthy. > > > --- Fluff <flufff_00 wrote: > > > I'm under the impression that you can obtain B-12 > > from tempeh and sea vegetables...any thoughts on > > this? > > And I agree with you Keith about using natural means > > to get vitamins and minerals. I do think synthetic > > vitamins can be bad.. Janet > > > > KEITH LAWRANCE <keithlawrance wrote: > > > > I've been a Vegan for 14 years, and I've read quite > > a lot about the B-12 > > issue (is synthetic B-12 as good as natural? > > Although Miso being made in > > wooden vats has b-12, made in steel vats does it > > give the same level? eating > > organic gives you enough because you're bound to eat > > something " buggy " , > > marmite/vegemite contains it.....etc. etc.). > > > > I've always felt that if I couldn't find it > > naturally in my diet, it would > > be a fairly " un-natural " thing to eat a synthetic > > version. It gives me the > > same (icky) feeling as when I've read science > > fiction that claims we'll be > > eating all of our meals in pill-form sometime in the > > far-off future. I think > > I'd rather eat cruelty-free eggs or milk than eat > > " chemicals " (fortunately, > > I haven't been forced to as my B-12 level has been > > ok just using diet). > > > > When I read the comments recently posted, that it's > > critical to supplement - > > I wonder whether I'm out in the wilderness on this. > > > > Does anyone have any opinions on this? I've been > > wondering about it for a > > while and don't have many other vegan friends to > > bounce it off of. Thanks in > > advance for your input. > > > > Keith > > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > Sat, 8 Jan 2005 20:53:35 -0800 (PST) > > > Suha Sleibi > > > Re: Health Alert For Vegans > > > > > > Wait a minute!! I thought that Vitamin B12 is from > > an animal origin! > > > > > > Rick Stevens wrote:Hi List, > > > > > > Just wanted to give a quick health update to > > anyone on > > > a vegan diet as I am. Here's the update, make sure > > you > > > take plenty of sublingual B-12 every day. Also, > > make > > > sure you take extra B-6, and extra Folic acid > > everyday > > > as well. All three of the things can keep your > > heart > > > healthy. Click link below to see why. Don't ignore > > > this advice. It's very crucial for all vegans to > > be > > > aware of this, as low B-12 levels can lead to > > heart > > > disease! Gary Null pushes this big time too. Make > > sure > > > and tell any other vegans you know about this > > also. Be > > > a smart vegan, not a dumb vegan. (-: > > > > > > Click here > http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/hcy > > > > > > Peace, > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Post message: > > Subscribe: - > > Un: - > > List owner: -owner > > > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > /community/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 Bob, what dosage did you use with the pills? The research I have done on this topic indicates that it is important to take a large enough dosage... *minimum* 250 mcg. Anything less than that can fail to provide enough absorption. Did you use sublingual? ... or at least chew up the tablet in your mouth? Apparently, with swallowing a tablet whole ... especially those " time release " ones... there is a substantial risk of the tablet passing through the digestive tract still intact, with also reduces absorption. As someone else has already said, sublingual tablets... usually 1000 or 2000 mcg... have been shown in controlled studies to have excellent results, at least as good as shots; and better in that it is a more " user friendly " method. Deborah After testing, my level s were low pills made no difference, shots were time wasting, so they taught me to inject myself. Easiest solution. By the way, the compound is synthetic. We can give ourselves shots, they try and make it voodo, it's simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 MrFallafel wrote: >Eat some marmite and be healthy. While Marmite is a good source of the other B vitamins, unless it is fortified with B12 and has how much per serving listed on it's label, I think it would fall into the catagory as an " unreliable " source of B12. Nor can it be thought of as a " natural " source... so how about just taking a sublingual supplement and be sure? Deborah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Wishing you all the best, Suha! Deborah Thank you Falafel, Deborah and Rick for this info. I am pregnant now and my prenatal vitamins already contain vitamin B12. But I will make sure in the future to buy B12 supplements and fortified food that contain that vitamin. Thanx again, Suha Deborah Pageau <dpageau wrote: >Suha Sleibi >Wait a minute!! I thought that Vitamin B12 is from an animal origin! Sublingual B12 supplements are produced in lab conditions by growing cyanobacteria on grasses. And I agree with what Rick said... it's essential for healthy vegetarians to supplement B12. Deborah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 I do not know if anyone else had this question; however, I started taking B12 in a B complex vitamin and I am also taking a multivitamin. I wanted to know if, like iron, a person could take too much B12. Below is an interesting article that I found in regards to this http://health.allrefer.com/alternative-medicine/vita-b-twelve-8.html Deborah Pageau <dpageau wrote: Bob, what dosage did you use with the pills? The research I have done on this topic indicates that it is important to take a large enough dosage... *minimum* 250 mcg. Anything less than that can fail to provide enough absorption. Did you use sublingual? ... or at least chew up the tablet in your mouth? Apparently, with swallowing a tablet whole ... especially those " time release " ones... there is a substantial risk of the tablet passing through the digestive tract still intact, with also reduces absorption. As someone else has already said, sublingual tablets... usually 1000 or 2000 mcg... have been shown in controlled studies to have excellent results, at least as good as shots; and better in that it is a more " user friendly " method. Deborah After testing, my level s were low pills made no difference, shots were time wasting, so they taught me to inject myself. Easiest solution. By the way, the compound is synthetic. We can give ourselves shots, they try and make it voodo, it's simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, spring muller wrote: > The research I have done on this topic indicates that it is important to > take a large enough dosage... *minimum* 250 mcg. Anything less than > that can fail to provide enough absorption. I swallow whole vegan multivitamin tablets that contain 25 (not 250) mcg., and my vitamin B12 level was normal in a blood test. Jim Sinclair jisincla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Hi Spring; >I do not know if anyone else had this question; however, I started taking B12 in a B complex >vitamin and I am also taking a multivitamin. I wanted to know if, like iron, a person could >take too much B12. Apparently not, primarily because there are a lot of factors that LIMIT it's absorption. The issue with B12 really is making sure to get enough. Deborah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 The issue with B-12 is that your intrinsic factor in your guy is broken from being inoculated. Ann Wigmore was right on talking about fermented foods. Read this article and you'll understand. A lot of the PhD's would tell me that raw foodists couldn't get enough B12 from their food and had to eat meat. I kept asking why and none of them could answer the question. So, I keep digging until I found someone who could answer the question. When in doubt go dig it up for yourself because most people with a degree get book stuck and will go no further than what they were taught. When a man says he is wise...he is in essence foolish because he has stopped learning. We need to bee seeking the truth constantly in all things while our lungs are still breathing.. Read this and make your own decision. Vitamin B12 / Cyanocobalamin (Page 1) Excerpt from and my appreciation to: The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001. http://www.bartleby.com/65/vi/vitamin.html vitamin: A group of organic substances that are required in the diet of humans and animals for normal growth, maintenance of life, and normal reproduction... If viewed at above web-page linked above, scroll down to section #16 to see Vitamin B12 Vitamin B12 The molecular structure of vitamin B12 vitamin. B12 (cobalamin), the most complex of all known vitamins, was announced in 1955 by several scientists, including British biochemists A. R. Todd and Dorothy Hodgkin. In 1973 the vitamin was reported to have been synthesized by organic chemists. Vitamin B12 and closely related cobalamins are necessary for folic acid to fulfill its role; both are involved in the synthesis of proteins. American physicians G. R. Minot and W. P. Murphy in 1926 fed large amounts of liver to patients with pernicious anemia and cured them; the curative substance in this case was probably vitamin B12. However, pernicious anemia in humans is caused not by a vitamin B12 deficiency in the diet but rather the absence of a substance called the intrinsic factor, ordinarily secreted by the stomach and responsible for facilitating the absorption of B12 from the intestine. When a person's body cannot produce the intrinsic factor, the standard treatment today is to inject vitamin B12 directly into the bloodstream. Minot and Murphy's therapy worked because the liver they fed their patients contained such large quantities of B12 that sufficient amounts of the vitamin were absorbed without the assistance of the intrinsic factor. Inadequate absorption of B12 causes pernicious anemia, nervous system degeneration, and amenorrhea. The only site of cobalamin synthesis in nature appears to be in microorganisms*; neither animals nor higher plants are capable of making these vitamin B12 derivatives. Nevertheless, such animal tissues as the liver, kidney, and heart of ruminants contain relatively large quantities of vitamin B12; the vitamin stored in these organs was originally produced by the (Cyano-) bacteria in the ruminant gut. Bivalves (clams or oysters), which siphon microorganisms* from the sea, are also good sources. Plants, on the other hand, are poor sources of (concentrated)** vitamin B12. The recommended daily dietary allowance for adults is 3 (? see all below) micrograms. Inoculations destroy the Stomach and GI Track and cause Intrisic factor. My notes and added information for above: microorganisms* * Cyanocobalamin - Vitamin B12 producing bacteria are in the Cyanobacterium (algae, moses) family. This class of microorganisms are bacteria that generally require and live in the sunlight and/or oxygenated environment of the plant surfaces, roots, upper soils and in the waters (near surface). They do not survive in the black dark anaerobic environment of interior animal tissues -- though their exo- and endo-compounds (metabolic excretions), including the vitamin B12 compound group, do and is accumulated and concentrated in the herbivorous (plant material consuming) animal (in fecal material, intestines, hence delivered into all body tissues, blood, muscles, entrails, esp. liver and kidneys) and is also expressed (to manage internal tissue levels) through and in body fluids (milk, mucus, urine) or ova (eggs). There is some presumptions of data that pro ports they (Cyanocobalamin bacteria) have some survival and production activity in the (dissolved oxygen and plant nutrient available) gut (primarily gullet and lower intestine) of herbivores / ruminants (e.g. cow, goat, horse, etc.) animals. But it is well understood that the critically important source of B12 in livestock (gen. ruminant) production is in your (unwashed, untreated) silage (corn, grains, beet pulp, ferments) along with alfalfa and hay, wheat grass, barley grass, where these plant loving cyano-bacteria flourish, then enter into the consuming animal! (concentrated**) -- my insertion to the Columbia Encyclopedia's text, 2nd to last line above. God and nature has made no mistakes in providing sufficient Vitamin B12 to billions of herbivorous animals over millions of millennia - including the vegetarian primates (our biologically nearest creational equivalents) and man! -- if he (man) makes the right dietary choices and nourishes himself the way he was originally designed! -- that is: in and from the garden! -- the perfect home of pure, uncontaminated, light, oxygen and vegetation loving Cyanocobalamin in correct bounty, in low concentrations, but sufficient for our needs!-- Not extorted from defiled, destroyed, killed, disease hosting, disease transmitting and B12 hyper-concentrating animals -- especially carnivorous animals (as poultry, pork, fish, etc.) which accumulate and concentrate even more B12 in their tissue, fluids and ova at levels above and higher than the herbivorous animals and/or the insects which they consume. Hence carnivores (including man when he chooses to be such) do ultra-concentrate B12 in their tissues! Hence in carnivorous man, a falsely high mean standard of B12 levels is accumulated in phlebotomy data and is accepted as the human norm! -- Not good or honest science!!! And that false high standard precipitates wrong diagnosis! that is, lower test values of accumulated serum*** B12 levels -- which are naturally less in non-carnivorous humans and their dependent nursing infants! They then are endangered with the unnecessary administrations of (the sewage and/or animal harvested and formulated) B12 injections and/or tablets, with their plethora of contraindications (ill side affects) possible in many recipient patients or wrongly treated victims! *** serum (blood stream) levels of B12 is not always a good indication of true internal, intra-/inter-cellular, metabolic, B12 functional levels. It is also (now) known that the cells are very conservative with B12; keeping appropriate stores of it within the cells themselves, recycling it within the intra-cellular (inside) chemistry and allowing only what is necessary in inter-cellular (between cells) chemistry to be exported, hence not requiring (as was previously presumed) high levels of B12 to be carried in blood flow to replenish it. -- tlr 7/3/03 Standard medicine has seriously erred in violation of honored Koch postulates and true scientific method, by producing unnatural high average blood level standards for B12, and assuming them as the correct human mean -- based upon hematological data accumulated and calculated in the cross-section of primarily heavily carnivorous USA/Industrial world humans! Not a true or honest measure for serum B12 levels for all of humanity, nor for creation's biologically intended, apparent and correct human nutrition, chemistry and physiology! The original concern over Vitamin B12 deficiency (based on research started before three quarters of a century ago and completed over a half century ago) was a perceived relationship in poor health conditions called " pernicious anima " (and other closely related neurological and physiological malfunctions). It now has been established that the true cause of this group of maladies is a failure in the bodies own ability to produce its own correct " intrinsic factor " , a compound associated with B12's intra/intercellular transport and use -- which is ill-formed in a hydrochloric acid and bile abused (a condition specifically triggered by the corrosive digestion required for complex, high molecular weight, dense animal proteins and fats within a) malnourished, malfunctioning, or chemically damaged (or rarely, a genetically flawed) intestinal tract -- rather than the old belief that the cause was (as presumed) a Vitamin B12 intake or (a test determined*) serum level deficiency! -- This error in perception, diagnoses and treatment does persist, even to date among too many non-current or incompletely educated health practitioners, their older peers, administrations and dependent government health and welfare agencies! -- tlr 7/2/03 *Remember, these test protocols and standards were determined over a half century year ago, and also were based on generally highly carnivorous, western human models. ---------- ---- Personal references: Veterinary & Human Biology & Pathology education and reference books / personal Human, Animal, Livestock and Marine (algae) research and experience -- and required knowledge for good livestock production and profit -- in my past. I will try to improve upon and expand this page later as my resources/time allow. In the meantime, you may see a reference to intestinal (microvilli) repair at LDSVeg.org/Raw.htm#microvilli, and other intestine and whole body healing and nutritional information on LifeSave.org, VeganCowboy.org, WaterAndLife.org and our other subject specific sites (listed on Lifesave.org and VeganCowboy.org) TLR. 7/1/03 Appreciation to my wife and family: Constructing this page has taken more than three full days away from family and real income producing work (which also goes to cover this labors total costs including the necessary ongoing internet debts). This required the confirming in all my old references, personal texts and notes from forty years education and experience back; then the time and concentration to ponder, recheck my supporting data, organize, write, edit, rewrite re-edit -- and I am probably still not finished with refining it for you! My hope is you will be benefited, have correct knowledge, prove it yourself as is possible, and that you will appreciate this labor and sacrifice (especially that which affects and leaves my family short) for you, the reader! -- tlr Page created July 1, 03. Visitors since counter reset Nov 5, 03. .... LifeSave.org . B12 page 2 . Manufactures data. Pathophysiology Text: 194-6 . 215-6 . 470-2 . Letter Case: Family Vs State & Medical error over Vitamin B12! -- The senseless bases for a nursing baby's removel: His Mom's blood & milk levels. - Any struggling infant's best form and supply!!! Deborah Pageau [dpageau] Wednesday, January 19, 2005 2:06 PM Re: Re:Health Alert For Vegans Hi Spring; >I do not know if anyone else had this question; however, I started taking B12 in a B complex >vitamin and I am also taking a multivitamin. I wanted to know if, like iron, a person could >take too much B12. Apparently not, primarily because there are a lot of factors that LIMIT it's absorption. The issue with B12 really is making sure to get enough. Deborah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Jim Sinclair wrote: >I swallow whole vegan multivitamin tablets that contain 25 (not 250) mcg., >and my vitamin B12 level was normal in a blood test. That's good that you got tested Jim. There are a number of factors that can limit absorption of B12, which are relatively common. I'm glad for your sake that you are able to get what you need from a smaller dose. I've seen people get into trouble taking small-ish doses, assuming they are absorbing enough B12. I think it's smart to get tested periodically (every few years or so) if one is relying on just supplemental foods or a small dose like that. Deborah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Hi Steven; >The issue with B-12 is that your intrinsic factor in your guy is broken from >being inoculated. Lack of intrinsic factor is certainly a common possible limiting factors on absorption of B12. There are others also possible though. As to why an individual lacks Intrinsic Factor, if inoculation were the cause, I think we would see more cases of lack of Intrinsic Factor in countries where inoculation is popular; and beginning in childhood. However, my understanding is that it has been documented world-wide and quite commonly shows up only in adulthood. According to the report made in 2004 to the Annual Review of Nutrition by researches SP Stabler and RH Allen from the University of Colorado, Pernicious Anemia (resulting from lack of intrinsic factor), is " common ....throughout the world " . >-- my insertion to the Columbia Encyclopedia's text, 2nd to >last line above. God and nature has made no mistakes in providing sufficient >Vitamin B12 to billions of herbivorous animals over millions of millennia - >including the vegetarian primates (our biologically nearest creational >equivalents) and man! -- if he (man) makes the right dietary choices and >nourishes himself the way he was originally designed! -- that is: in and >from the garden! -- the perfect home of pure, uncontaminated, light, oxygen >and vegetation loving Cyanocobalamin in correct bounty, in low >concentrations, but sufficient for our needs! I agree with your premise that animals in their natural environment have methods of obtaining enough B12. And while primates tend to eat a mostly vegan diet, please let us be clear that they do consume animal products at times. Chimpanzees have been seen to hunt in organized groups and consume their prey. They also eat (whole!) insects and engage in coprophagy (the eating of excrement), both of which provide suitable quantities of B12. And let us bear in mind, if an individual is born without enough production of intrinsic factor or some other biological limitation on their ability to absorb, recycle or utitilize B12, low concentrations (those found naturally in the wild) fail to meet their needs. In the wild, they either die young and/or fail to reproduce successfully. Either way, they fail to pass on defective genetive material. Therefore, primates in the wild that survive to reproduce, do so because the mechanisms provided by Nature, are sufficient to their needs. Natural selection matches the specie to the diet, as much as the diet is matched to the specie. In human populations however, we do our best to care for those whose needs require special attention. > -- Not extorted from defiled, >destroyed, killed, disease hosting, disease transmitting and B12 >hyper-concentrating animals -- especially carnivorous animals (as poultry, >pork, fish, etc.) which accumulate and concentrate even more B12 in their >tissue, fluids and ova at levels above and higher than the herbivorous >animals and/or the insects which they consume. Hence carnivores (including >man when he chooses to be such) do ultra-concentrate B12 in their tissues! I agree with you that we can do much BETTER for ourselves than eating flesh for B12. That being said, I think it's fair to say that your claim about flesh being a " hyper " or " ultra " concentration is rather an exaggeration. In a 3 ounce portion of animal muscle tissue, one can expect to get approximately 1 to 3 micrograms. That's really only JUST meeting daily need, if (and only if!) one absorbs it all. A primate engaging in coprophagy ingests approximately 5 micrograms of B12. Animal organs are richer sources of B12 than muscle tissue, but even so, nothing close to extremely concentrated in terms of human need. Three ounces of liver only offers about 95 micrograms. And if an individual lacks intrinsic factor, even that amount will fail to meet their need. In such cases, sufficient absorption has been shown to occur passively with the *minimum* of 250 micrograms per day. As far as I know, this level of concentration is available only in a supplement. >Hence in carnivorous man, a falsely high mean standard of B12 levels is >accumulated in phlebotomy data and is accepted as the human norm! -- Not >good or honest science!!! And that false high standard precipitates wrong >diagnosis! that is, lower test values of accumulated serum*** B12 levels -- >which are naturally less in non-carnivorous humans and their dependent >nursing infants! They then are endangered with the unnecessary >administrations of (the sewage and/or animal harvested and formulated) B12 >injections and/or tablets, with their plethora of contraindications (ill >side affects) possible in many recipient patients or wrongly treated >victims! Observation of large numbers of humans over many years has shown that a certain range of B12 in the blood is associated with the best health. Below that level, the rate of a rather wide variety of ill conditions begin to manifest. One of the problems commonly associated with low B12, is neurological impairment and mental illness of various sorts. This webpage addresses some of the more widely documented health issues associated with B12 deficiency. http://www.scienzavegetariana.it/rubriche/cong2002/vegcon_B12_en.html These illnesses and health issues related to B12 deficiency are far more than mere perception. They are regretably, very real. >*** serum (blood stream) levels of B12 is not always a good indication of >true internal, intra-/inter-cellular, metabolic, B12 functional levels. It >is also (now) known that the cells are very conservative with B12; keeping >appropriate stores of it within the cells themselves, recycling it within >the intra-cellular (inside) chemistry and allowing only what is necessary in >inter-cellular (between cells) chemistry to be exported, hence not requiring >(as was previously presumed) high levels of B12 to be carried in blood flow >to replenish it. -- tlr 7/3/03 Yes. This is why other tests have been developed, other than blood tests, in diagnosing B12 status. If your blood tests show low B12 and you have any doubt about the risk to your health, you can ask for some of these other tests to be done as follow-up. They will indicate the state of your deficiency more clearly. >Standard medicine has seriously erred in violation of honored Koch >postulates and true scientific method, by producing unnatural high average >blood level standards for B12, and assuming them as the correct human mean >-- based upon hematological data accumulated and calculated in the >cross-section of primarily heavily carnivorous USA/Industrial world humans! >Not a true or honest measure for serum B12 levels for all of humanity, nor >for creation's biologically intended, apparent and correct human nutrition, >chemistry and physiology! Please note, the B12 serum levels of healthy primates captured from the wild has been documented to be within the range of what science considers normal and safe for human beings. >Case: Family Vs State & Medical error over Vitamin B12! -- The senseless >bases for a nursing baby's removel: > >His Mom's blood & milk levels. - Any struggling infant's best form and >supply!!! Ah, a very difficult situation! Rather than taking the child away from it's mother's milk, I would hope that the parents would agree to supplement the mother herself which would take care of both her own health as well as that of the baby. If taking a B12 supplement offends the beliefs of the family, I would hope that an education program would help. However, I know it can be a sticky issue because one of the complicating factors is that impaired neurological function is one of the costs of B12 deficiency. Maybe at least a temporary supplementation agreement could be worked out, which might then lead to a more permanent arrangement once the parents are thinking more clearly. I myself was adamently against B12 supplementation for my first 15 years of being vegan, when I was under the false impression that our primate ancestors did not consume reliable sources of B12. I believed that the trace amounts on unwashed fruits and vegetables or some internal production method, were how they (and we) got enough. Once I'd investigated these ideas and saw how they were fantasies, I became convinced that taking a regular B12 supplement was actually a reflection of our NATURAL behavior, and therefore essential. I'm fortunate that I live in a part of the world where I have access to this option, so that I got started soon enough to stop the tremor on my right side from getting any worse. I'd like EVERY vegan to supplement with sufficient B12, including you Steven. Deborah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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