Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 where the hell do you get off being nasty to any one? bieng vegetarian, vegan, christian, buddhist, is a PERSONAL choice. SO, if you tell someone about jesus, and they still refuse to be a christian, does that give you the right to be nasty to them? What ever happened to hate the sin and not the sinner? Judge not lest ye be judged. NO, it is not ok to eat meat, no it is not ok to be cruel to animals. OR HUMANS. People sin, including you, and it is not your place to decide who to be nice to and who to be mean to. That is not loving kindness. How do you ever expect any one to follow your example, if your hateful to them? I sure as hell wouldnt want to follow in your footsteps if you were being nasty to me. And no, being vegan does not mean that you have to be an activist, (you already are) activism is a personal choice, and what we choose to do with our life is ours. What about the eskimoes- should they stop eating seals and concentrate on eating the snow instead? Bottom line is, it is not okay to discriminate against any one for any reason, no matter how wrong you think they are. Not everyone agrees with your views, or mine. that doesnt make them a bad person, and just because Im a vegetarian doesnt make me a better person. Angie said: think its ok to be nasty to animal eaters once you have told them about what they do ,because they can no longer plead ignorance . I'm lucky that the only animal eaters I know are colleagues at work or strangers who I meet doing stalls Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Of course a person who is not an accessory to murder is a better person than one who is! That should be pretty self-evident, so why can't we drop this politically correct pussyfooting around " must not be judgemental " bullcrap? Oh yes sorry we have, it's on VegansUncensored, but since you had a go at Angie on this group, I could not ignore your comments. I agree with Angie, adults who are animal-eaters in the affluent West (I'm not judging those in poor parts of the world such as Tibet where every day is a struggle to survive) know EXACTLY what they are doing and continue with it, so they are obviously not very kind people. It's Angie's personal choice not to make close friends of animal-eaters, it's my choice too, I don't feel happy having them as close friends if they can be so callous as to keep eating animals once they know what they have suffered and how horribly they were murdered, and besides you are being judgemental yourself, over the way we feel about animal-eaters, so you are no better than me or Angie when it comes to being non-judgemental! There's a paradox here, you judge people for being judgemental and it means you are judgemental yourself. Remember that, and understand that you have cast as many stones as Angie has! Lesley ned_flagherty [ned_flagherty] 25 March 2002 12:47 Angie where the hell do you get off being nasty to any one? bieng vegetarian, vegan, christian, buddhist, is a PERSONAL choice. SO, if you tell someone about jesus, and they still refuse to be a christian, does that give you the right to be nasty to them? What ever happened to hate the sin and not the sinner? Judge not lest ye be judged. NO, it is not ok to eat meat, no it is not ok to be cruel to animals. OR HUMANS. People sin, including you, and it is not your place to decide who to be nice to and who to be mean to. That is not loving kindness. How do you ever expect any one to follow your example, if your hateful to them? I sure as hell wouldnt want to follow in your footsteps if you were being nasty to me. And no, being vegan does not mean that you have to be an activist, (you already are) activism is a personal choice, and what we choose to do with our life is ours. What about the eskimoes- should they stop eating seals and concentrate on eating the snow instead? Bottom line is, it is not okay to discriminate against any one for any reason, no matter how wrong you think they are. Not everyone agrees with your views, or mine. that doesnt make them a bad person, and just because Im a vegetarian doesnt make me a better person. Angie said: think its ok to be nasty to animal eaters once you have told them about what they do ,because they can no longer plead ignorance . I'm lucky that the only animal eaters I know are colleagues at work or strangers who I meet doing stalls Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Who have I been nasty to ? I said I think its ok After all they are the ones killing I am simply saying it is ok to be nasty I didn't actually say I would be . Not being interested in religion I don't care about someones views only whether they cause the death of another unnecessarily Of course it is up to me to decide who I like/don't like and therefore up to me to choose to be nasty ( (I don't think I am anyway ) Your mail is far nastier than mine ! Of course activism is a choice but getting people to see what they are responsible for is a step forward /doing demos draws attention and people ask questions I am in the UK I'm talking about those I meet . I know nothing about the Inuits so would not judge them If they live in harsh conditions where there is no choice (what happens if one of them doesn't want that lifestyle after all we rejected the way we were brought up ?) We discriminate all the time when we use one health store/supermarket and not another Imo a veg/vegan is still a better person because in a vegans lifetime 2000 animals won't have to die. I'm entitled to my views too . and you can disagree without being unpleasant especially as you were criticising me for that I don't think I have been unpleasant I certainly didn't mean to be and appologise if it came over that way - ned_flagherty Monday, March 25, 2002 12:46 PM Angie where the hell do you get off being nasty to any one?bieng vegetarian, vegan, christian, buddhist, is aPERSONAL choice. .to and who to be mean to. That is not loving kindness.How do you ever expect any one to follow your example,if your hateful to them? I sure as hell wouldnt wantto follow in your footsteps if you were being nasty tome.And no, being vegan does not mean that you have to bean activist, (you already are) activism is a personalchoice, and what we choose to do with our life isours.What about the eskimoes- should they stop eating sealsand concentrate on eating the snow instead? Bottom line is, it is not okay to discriminate againstany one for any reason, no matter how wrong you thinkthey are. Not everyone agrees with your views, ormine. that doesnt make them a bad person, and justbecause Im a vegetarian doesnt make me a betterperson. Angie said:think its ok to be nasty to animal eaters once youhave told them about what they do ,because they can nolonger plead ignorance .I'm lucky that the only animal eaters I know arecolleagues at work or strangers who I meet doingstallsAngieEverything you'll ever need on one web pagefrom News and Sport to Email and Music Chartshttp://uk.my.~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 so, I suppose that you only vote for, buy from, take cable tv, internet, e mail, clothing, airtravel, etc from vegans? Vegan is a funny word, And no matter how hard one tries, we will still, in one way or another, be using animal products, or compaines that are involved in non vegan practices. Unless you go out and research every thing you come into contact with, and avoid all the companies that dont mesh with your beliefs, until you BECOME perfect- you have no right to judge any one. I take my guidance from God, and the bible. People who become hateful and prejudice in their cause are worse than the cause itself. And I never said I wasnt judgemental- I said it was wrong. So what if I had a go at Angie-- she has a go at people every day- shes nasty to people every day because they eat meat.... Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Thanks Lesley I thought I was on my own . Got to go now to see Peter Pan with Robert !!!---- " Lesley Dove " <Lesley Monday, March 25, 2002 1:18 PM RE: Angie > > Of course a person who is not an accessory to murder is a better person than > one who is! That should be pretty self-evident, so why can't we drop this > politically correct pussyfooting around " must not be judgemental " bullcrap? > Oh yes sorry we have, it's on VegansUncensored, but since you had a go at > Angie on this group, I could not ignore your comments. I agree with Angie, > adults who are animal-eaters in the affluent West (I'm not judging those in > Angie said: > >http://us.click./BgmYkB/VovDAA/ySSFAA/PVjolB/TM > ---~-> > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Angie, My appologoes for being unpleasant. I got the impression that yuo were being purposfully mean to meat eaters. And, IMO that is wrong. the idea that vegans are better than meat eaters is a nice one- but not true. Only God can decide who has forgiveness. Your uninterest in religion does not make me think you are a worse person that me...I am a christian, and you are not. That does not make me a better person. You are a vegan, and some of the people you come into contact with are not. That does not make you a better person. You still have to keep respect for every one. If you take a negative attitude about your work, then people will not follow... Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 you answered your own question ... they have no choice... if they want to give up their lifestyle then they move to America... we rejected our way because we had choice... Z I am in the UK I'm talking about those I meet . I know nothing about the Inuits so would not judge them If they live in harsh conditions where there is no choice (what happens if one of them doesn't want that lifestyle after all we rejected the way we were brought up ?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Do you know me ? Can you understand what you read ? Have I said ,I or anyone else is 100% vegan . We can only do our best and like everyone I shop where it is ethical but also near home and not too expensive . We don't need to worry about vivisectionists or hunters criticising us when we have our own doing it . That is why originally I said I would support vegans . It is a pity some vegans do not see the value in that . Infiltrators sometimes come on these boards to cause trouble and arguments ,but we don't need that because you are doing a good job instead I am a free person and have every right to judge . Since I don't believe in /respect your god I don't have to follow oany rules laid down by that god or its believers I have no wish to continue talking to you as you criticise me for things which you admit you do yourself which means you are just being difficult and nasty !!! - ned_flagherty Monday, March 25, 2002 1:28 PM RE: Angie Vegan is a funny word, And no matter how hard onetries, we will still, in one way or another, be usinganimal products, or compaines that are involved in nonvegan practices. Unless you go out and research everything you come into contact with, and avoid all thecompanies that dont mesh with your beliefs, until youBECOME perfect- you have no right to judge any one. I take my guidance from God, and the bible. People whobecome hateful and prejudice in their cause are worsethan the cause itself.And I never said I wasnt judgemental- I said it waswrong.So what if I had a go at Angie-- she has a go atpeople every day- shes nasty to people every daybecause they eat meat....Everything you'll ever need on one web pagefrom News and Sport to Email and Music Chartshttp://uk.my.~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 >...why can't we drop this >politically correct pussyfooting around " must not be judgemental " bullcrap? >Oh yes sorry we have, it's on VegansUncensored, but since you... No, no no no no no no. (There's a tune to that which I just can't reflect in an email, but you get the drift) Actually Lesley said nothing wrong but just to ensure there is no ambiguity I will say now that I will not tolerate a " they started it " argument. The fact is that the majority of members are still on both lists (although it is beginning to change), but if anyone must say something without holding back then do so on the other list and just say on here that that is where you have replied. >...and besides you are being judgemental yourself, over the way we >feel about animal-eaters, so you are no better than me or Angie when it >comes to being non-judgemental... Quite. Anyone who says " you cannot dictate how others should... " is in doing so dictating how others should do something (in this case dictate). So to end this sermon I will say what is meant by being non judgmental. You can feel free to say that " I think everyone should... " and in response people may say why you can't make whatever claim you did. That is stating your opinion. Being judgmental is to be critical of someone for holding a particular view rather than being critical of the view itself. It really isn't that hard to distinguish between the two. Michael List owner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 >So what if I had a go at Angie-- she has a go at >people every day- shes nasty to people every day >because they eat meat.... No, she said it is okay to be nasty, not that she was nasty. I'm trying to be flexible in moderating this list because I don't want to be constantly jumping on people but it is certainly not okay to have a go at people on this list, regardless of whether they are nasty to people everyday. Michael List owner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 you shouldnt make statements you are not willing to defend. name calling and accusations on your part are immature and not neccasarry. I dont force you to talk to me, or to reply to me posts. that is your choice. You judge people, without knowing them- you admit to this too...being nasty to meat eaters... and Im the nasty one. Its no wonder you don't believe in God- you don't need to...you do all the judging yourself. Christians prefer to leave that up to God and live peacefully and productivley... Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Exactly and its us I'm talking about !!! We have a choice and animal eaters can choose not to kill 2000 in each persons lifetime You confused the issue with Tibetans!!! - Oliver Slay Monday, March 25, 2002 1:53 PM Re: Angie you answered your own question ... they have no choice... if they want to give up their lifestyle then they move to America... we rejected our way because we had choice... Z I am in the UK I'm talking about those I meet . I know nothing about the Inuits so would not judge them If they live in harsh conditions where there is no choice (what happens if one of them doesn't want that lifestyle after all we rejected the way we were brought up ?)~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 I have already appologized to angie... I told her how I took her post, and why I replied the way I did...and then I appologized. I DONT think it is OK to be nasty to any one, or to discriminate. I think I have the right to express this. If not, then I will happily leave the group.... NED Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 i spoke to a dietician some time ago who was not familiar with the vegan diet ... she works with really poor people in Brixton in London ... she told me there's absolutely no way you can go around preaching even vegetarianism to people who don't even have enough money to feed their kids a healthy diet... her aim with most of them can only be to get them on a reasonably nutritional diet which is within their reach... and a bit of meat is cheaper than a bit of tofu... again ... i am off the mark ... i forget you are talking about people with choice... Z Angie Wright [angiewright]Monday, March 25, 2002 5:16 PM Subject: Re: Angie Exactly and its us I'm talking about !!! We have a choice and animal eaters can choose not to kill 2000 in each persons lifetime You confused the issue with Tibetans!!! - Oliver Slay Monday, March 25, 2002 1:53 PM Re: Angie you answered your own question ... they have no choice... if they want to give up their lifestyle then they move to America... we rejected our way because we had choice... Z I am in the UK I'm talking about those I meet . I know nothing about the Inuits so would not judge them If they live in harsh conditions where there is no choice (what happens if one of them doesn't want that lifestyle after all we rejected the way we were brought up ?)~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Well, I wish that we could all be so (self) righteous, Ned...with all due respect. It's difficult. If you are able to avoid discriminating against anyone at anytime then you are a far more evolved person than I. xxk@xx ned_flagherty [ned_flagherty]25 March 2002 12:47 Subject: Angiewhere the hell do you get off being nasty to any one?bieng vegetarian, vegan, christian, buddhist, is aPERSONAL choice. SO, if you tell someone about jesus,and they still refuse to be a christian, does thatgive you the right to be nasty to them? What everhappened to hate the sin and not the sinner? Judge notlest ye be judged.NO, it is not ok to eat meat, no it is not ok to becruel to animals. OR HUMANS. People sin, includingyou, and it is not your place to decide who to be niceto and who to be mean to. That is not loving kindness.How do you ever expect any one to follow your example,if your hateful to them? I sure as hell wouldnt wantto follow in your footsteps if you were being nasty tome.And no, being vegan does not mean that you have to bean activist, (you already are) activism is a personalchoice, and what we choose to do with our life isours.What about the eskimoes- should they stop eating sealsand concentrate on eating the snow instead? Bottom line is, it is not okay to discriminate againstany one for any reason, no matter how wrong you thinkthey are. Not everyone agrees with your views, ormine. that doesnt make them a bad person, and justbecause Im a vegetarian doesnt make me a betterperson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Who eats tofu ? Most people are not living in Brixton or struggling to feed their kids Some maybe but then if they don't buy meat and convenience foods and don't smoke it will be easier . However one has to get the people to understand For that they have to be able to understand the discussion and live in Nottingham . Why do you bring up the extremes I won't be able to convert the Royal family either !!!! But that doesn't mean I won't keep trying in Nottingham . There are still loads of people to get thro' to If you helped instead of looking for situations where I can't succeed I'd have an easier Job What about a stall in Brixton ? - Oliver Slay ' ' Monday, March 25, 2002 7:23 PM RE: Angie i spoke to a dietician some time ago who was not familiar with the vegan diet ... she works with really poor people in Brixton in London ... she told me there's absolutely no way you can go around preaching even vegetarianism to people who don't even have enough money to feed their kids a healthy diet... her aim with most of them can only be to get them on a reasonably nutritional diet which is within their reach... and a bit of meat is cheaper than a bit of tofu... again ... i am off the mark ... i forget you are talking about people with choice... Z Angie Wright [angiewright]Monday, March 25, 2002 5:16 PM Subject: Re: Angie Exactly and its us I'm talking about !!! We have a choice and animal eaters can choose not to kill 2000 in each persons lifetime You confused the issue with Tibetans!!! - Oliver Slay Monday, March 25, 2002 1:53 PM Re: Angie you answered your own question ... they have no choice... if they want to give up their lifestyle then they move to America... we rejected our way because we had choice... Z I am in the UK I'm talking about those I meet . I know nothing about the Inuits so would not judge them If they live in harsh conditions where there is no choice (what happens if one of them doesn't want that lifestyle after all we rejected the way we were brought up ?)~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 Sorry but this is rubbish, poor people in Brixton are a world apart from people in Tibet or the Inuits. Fresh fruits and vegetables are cheaper than processed foods and animal products, and you can get protein without tofu. I really don't buy it that poor people in the UK cannot easily be vegan or at least vegetarian, and are especially better off for it as cheap meat in poor areas is often unsafe (anyone see the Money Programme covering the cheap meat trade?) Lesley Oliver Slay [oliver]25 March 2002 19:24' 'RE: Angie i spoke to a dietician some time ago who was not familiar with the vegan diet ... she works with really poor people in Brixton in London ... she told me there's absolutely no way you can go around preaching even vegetarianism to people who don't even have enough money to feed their kids a healthy diet... her aim with most of them can only be to get them on a reasonably nutritional diet which is within their reach... and a bit of meat is cheaper than a bit of tofu... again ... i am off the mark ... i forget you are talking about people with choice... Z Angie Wright [angiewright]Monday, March 25, 2002 5:16 PM Subject: Re: Angie Exactly and its us I'm talking about !!! We have a choice and animal eaters can choose not to kill 2000 in each persons lifetime You confused the issue with Tibetans!!! - Oliver Slay Monday, March 25, 2002 1:53 PM Re: Angie you answered your own question ... they have no choice... if they want to give up their lifestyle then they move to America... we rejected our way because we had choice... Z I am in the UK I'm talking about those I meet . I know nothing about the Inuits so would not judge them If they live in harsh conditions where there is no choice (what happens if one of them doesn't want that lifestyle after all we rejected the way we were brought up ?)~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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