Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 sorry, but youll never convince me to be mean to anyone regardless of thier veganism or meat eating. I'd help, save, talk to, befreind, any one even , if they ate meat. youre preaching to the converted. Unless you get out there and befreind some meat eaters, be nice to them, not brash- how are you going to educate people? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 hmm.. is it possible to marry a meat-eater and still be vegan? - <ned_flagherty Monday, March 25, 2002 1:23 PM preaching to the converted..... > sorry, but youll never convince me to be mean to > anyone regardless of thier veganism or meat eating. > I'd help, save, talk to, befreind, any one even , if > they ate meat. > youre preaching to the converted. Unless you get out > there and befreind some meat eaters, be nice to them, > not brash- how are you going to educate people? > > > > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my. > > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 mu husband is a wonderful man, and does eat meat occasionally. Because I have been kind and patient towards him, never nasty, he now does not bring meat into the house, and he does not eat meat in front of me. I have showed him info about animal cruelty, and he now does not eat/drink/buy anything that was from an animal treated cruelly. He does, however, eat meat from a close freind if his who owns a farm. This is his decision, and I respect that.I have never tried to make him feel guilty or try to hound him about his choice. Thruogh loving kindness, he and I are coming to understandings about this. I married a man, a christian man. He is good and kind. He may be a meat eater, but so was Jesus. I am very happy. Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Why are you sitting in judgement on me ? You don't know that I don't help/ save /befriend anyone It just happens that after 35 years of veganism all my friends happen to be vegan I feel comfortable with them and v.v.. People I meet casually I am friendly with simply because I couldn't be anything else However they may chose to be rude about my veganism . That always happens before i'm nasty back in the same way that you were nasty to me first I meet loads of people doing stalls What do you do to meet new people ? - ned_flagherty Monday, March 25, 2002 1:23 PM preaching to the converted..... sorry, but youll never convince me to be mean toanyone regardless of thier veganism or meat eating. I'd help, save, talk to, befreind, any one even , ifthey ate meat. youre preaching to the converted. Unless you get outthere and befreind some meat eaters, be nice to them,not brash- how are you going to educate people?Everything you'll ever need on one web pagefrom News and Sport to Email and Music Chartshttp://uk.my.~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 I think we are getting off the topic of what your original statement was.... that you felt it was ok to be nasty to non vegans, and that you took preference to vegans who did activisms over those who dont. what you are saying now, contradicts your original statement, which is what I responded to. It seems like you are looking for an argument. What I do to meet people is not of issue here. Whether you think you have the right to be nasty to people for thier choices in veganism is. Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 "I married a man, a christian man. He is good and kind." In a christian point of view, how can you say that a man who keeps on eating animals and so who makes them die for his own pleasure, is "good and kind" ? Isn't it paradoxal ? "He may be a meat eater, but so was Jesus."Are you sure about it ? Wasn't Jesus an Essenian ? I think Essenian were vegans... ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 right ... "Five small loaves of bread and two fish" Z Snoocat [snoocat]Monday, March 25, 2002 4:48 PM Subject: Re: preaching to the converted..... "I married a man, a christian man. He is good and kind." In a christian point of view, how can you say that a man who keeps on eating animals and so who makes them die for his own pleasure, is "good and kind" ? Isn't it paradoxal ? "He may be a meat eater, but so was Jesus."Are you sure about it ? Wasn't Jesus an Essenian ? I think Essenian were vegans... ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 well, from a christian point of view, we are all sinners, and so is my husband. He knows that being cruel to animals is a sin, so he has stopped buying/eating/ etc. ANYTHING that comes from cruelty- shampoo, soap, egss, etc. BUT- he has not decided, in his own heart, if eating meat is fundementally wrong. he knows that the meat from say, ASDA is wrong to eat because the animal was treated cruelly...and he knows the industry is wrong. But as far as we can tell, it is a very confusing subject. If one looks at it biblically, Jesus ate fish on at least 2 occasions in the bible, and the new testiment gives us guidlines for eating meat. Beccause God saw that our hearts were hardened, and he gave us rules ( not eating meat with the life blood in it, etc). He is giving it much prayer. When I met my husband he ate bacon, beef. etc. Now he reads labels of shampoo bottles, and really is trying to do the Christian thing. Instead of condemning him for what he is still unsure of, I praise him for his efforts so far. The new testiment and the old testiment are a bit contradicting about this, and I am no expert! We just try to do what we can....without hate or judgement. Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 All animal slaughter for meat is cruel, why can't your husband see that? Maybe he does not want to see. Eating meat if it comes from an animal just dying naturally would not be wrong, but killing for meat is wrong. Even if the animal does not suffer, it is still losing a good amount of its natural lifetime! They are usually killed young. So most meat-eating is wrong. No-one sells meat from animals that just drop dead as it might be diseased, so there is really no such thing as cruelty-free meat. Your husband is deluding himself. Lesley ned_flagherty [ned_flagherty] 25 March 2002 17:09 Re: preaching to the converted..... well, from a christian point of view, we are all sinners, and so is my husband. He knows that being cruel to animals is a sin, so he has stopped buying/eating/ etc. ANYTHING that comes from cruelty- shampoo, soap, egss, etc. BUT- he has not decided, in his own heart, if eating meat is fundementally wrong. he knows that the meat from say, ASDA is wrong to eat because the animal was treated cruelly...and he knows the industry is wrong. But as far as we can tell, it is a very confusing subject. If one looks at it biblically, Jesus ate fish on at least 2 occasions in the bible, and the new testiment gives us guidlines for eating meat. Beccause God saw that our hearts were hardened, and he gave us rules ( not eating meat with the life blood in it, etc). He is giving it much prayer. When I met my husband he ate bacon, beef. etc. Now he reads labels of shampoo bottles, and really is trying to do the Christian thing. Instead of condemning him for what he is still unsure of, I praise him for his efforts so far. The new testiment and the old testiment are a bit contradicting about this, and I am no expert! We just try to do what we can....without hate or judgement. Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Leslie, I am not defending my husbands meat eating. He has to come around in his own time. I can't force him to do anything, nor would I try. I love him, and would never expect him to change his views if I attacked him. I find you get more flies with honey.... How can he be deluding himself of something he doesnt know? Dont you have to have a strong opinion or beliefe in order to be deluded by it? He has said that he doesn't know, and that he will give it study and prayer. I understand how frustrating it is to wait for a meat eater to see the light- and I keep saying to myself, its really simple if you just look at whats happening to the animals....and no matter how wrong I think it is, I have to be patient and let him do things his way. I know, if I were on the other side of the coin (and I was) that it makes more sense to do it this way. My husband is a strong christian, and I think you have to understand that he is taking a christain point of view on this. He is going to find his answers there, not from me or anything else. How can I be mad at him- he has come so far...Im not going to sit there and say 'its not enough,', I say 'its good that you did that'. Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 I still say its ok imo to be nasty to meat eaters It doesn't mean I am --(-unless they criticise my non killing life style ) They kill animals and know what they are doing in most cases Some vegans spend much of their time trying to get info out to people in the hope that more people will give up animal eating . Some do demos outside labs/factory farms etc on a regular basis . Some sab. hunts each week end I have the utmost respect for these people Others do nothing other than being vegan When one is newly vegan it takes up all ones time learning new foods etc but eventually ???? Some vegans have young children so don't have the freedom to do much , but kids grow up and then ???? So yes I prefer vegans who do their bit in whatever way over those who do nothing . Where I live there are two groups one of AR people who do something every Saturday at least, making the public aware . The other veg/vegan social group meets to socialise in the pub/cafe once a week . The public don't know about it ! - ned_flagherty Monday, March 25, 2002 4:37 PM Re: preaching to the converted..... Whether you think you have the right to be nasty topeople for thier choices in veganism is.Everything you'll ever need on one web pagefrom News and Sport to Email and Music Chartshttp://uk.my.~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 why don't we just agree to disagree Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 "Im not going to sit there and say 'its not enough,', I say 'its good that you did that'." Of course you're right ! For us, it feels so easy to consider animals as our brothers, but it's not... Christianism doesn't care about animals, in fact christianism says God made animals to be our servants... From this point of view, of course, your husband is great.Everything you'll ever need on one web pagefrom News and Sport to Email and Music Chartshttp://uk.my. ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 An animal doesn't give up its life willingly I don't need a god to tell me what I see as obvious . By taking its life , it is theft at the very least least with the animal being terrified and struggling to survive I get criticised for saying it is ok to be nasty to animal eaters Holding an animal down and slitting its throat is somehow not a problem ?????? ' Somewhere someone said thou shalt not kill christians conveniently forget that one . I despise religious people more than atheists/agnostics because they have a set of rules to live by which should make them more compassionate than non believers but they are not (with a few exceptions ) You can never drain all the blood out as I keep telling the JW 's who come to the door ned_flagherty Monday, March 25, 2002 5:09 PM Re: preaching to the converted..... ..BUT- he has not decided, in his own heart, if eatingmeat is fundementally wrong. he knows that the meatfrom say, ASDA is wrong to eat because the animal wastreated cruellyBut as far as we can tell, it is a very confusingsubject. If one looks at it biblically, Jesus ate fishon at least 2 occasions in the bible, and the newtestiment gives us guidlines for eating meat. BeccauseGod saw that our hearts were hardened, and he gave usrules ( not eating meat with the life blood in it,etc). He is giving it much prayer.bottles, and really is tryingto do the Christian thing. Instead of condemning himfor what he is still unsure of, I praise him for hisefforts so far. Everything you'll ever need on one web pagefrom News and Sport to Email and Music Chartshttp://uk.my.~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Im sorry angie but I cant see the point in continuing on with this with you... you have put words in my mouth, and accused me of views that I do not hold. My husband has never killed anything, and is a vegetarian. I dont judge him for not being vegan, you do. Ned... Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Are there any slaughter houses /factory farms where you live ?? - ned_flagherty Monday, March 25, 2002 5:32 PM RE: preaching to the converted..... He has said that he doesn't know, and that he willgive it study and prayer. I have to be patient and let him do things hisway.My husband is a strong christian, he is taking a christain point ofview on this. How can I be mad at him- he has come so far...Im notgoing to sit there and say 'its not enough,', I say'its good that you did that'.Everything you'll ever need on one web pagefrom News and Sport to Email and Music Chartshttp://uk.my.~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 OK - ned_flagherty Monday, March 25, 2002 5:52 PM Re: preaching to the converted..... why don't we just agree to disagreeEverything you'll ever need on one web pagefrom News and Sport to Email and Music Chartshttp://uk.my.~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 I appologise somewhere along the line I got the impression he ate meat when he was not in your house Perhaps I was talking to someone else and got the posts mixed up Why were we talking about taking life then Utterly confused Angie - ned_flagherty Monday, March 25, 2002 6:07 PM Re: preaching to the converted..... Im sorry angie but I cant see the point in continuingon with this with you...you have put words in my mouth, and accused me ofviews that I do not hold.My husband has never killed anything, and is avegetarian. I dont judge him for not being vegan, youdo.Ned...Everything you'll ever need on one web pagefrom News and Sport to Email and Music Chartshttp://uk.my.~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 Depends how deep you kiss... Cheers Viv " You'll Never Walk Alone with a Basenji " www.veganvillage.co.uk www.vegansociety.com http://VEGAN-info.com/index.htm Oliver Slay [oliver] Monday, March 25, 2002 1:54 PM Re: preaching to the converted..... hmm.. is it possible to marry a meat-eater and still be vegan? - <ned_flagherty Monday, March 25, 2002 1:23 PM preaching to the converted..... > sorry, but youll never convince me to be mean to > anyone regardless of thier veganism or meat eating. > I'd help, save, talk to, befreind, any one even , if > they ate meat. > youre preaching to the converted. Unless you get out > there and befreind some meat eaters, be nice to them, > not brash- how are you going to educate people? > > > > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my. > > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 I am confused as well.... Although he does not eat meat now, he does not know if it is a Sin. Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 I think so.....not that well be taking any tours! Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 do you despise everyone? ... if you despise one group MORE THAN another .. it implies that you despise both groups... and religous people v. atheists/agnostics doesn't leave much room for anyone else on the planet... i don't mean to pick on you ... but you speak too much of hate, despising and dislike... and this is not a compassionate stance... IF you hate ... you are more likely to be nasty without intending to be nasty ... you may not even notice how nasty some of your own actions might be ... namaste Z I despise religious people more than atheists/agnostics because they have a set of rules to live by which should make them more compassionate than non believers but they are not (with a few exceptions ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 eating meat is not a sin ... (which is why i previously brought up Tibetans... i do not think they sin... they get what they can from the little they have... that is hardly a sin...) cramp-farming animals and mass meat over-production and the large amount of wastage that comes from this .. for the purpose of economical gain and increased 'choice'... is more of a 'sin'... Z > > [ned_flagherty] > Monday, March 25, 2002 7:17 PM > > Re: preaching to the converted..... > > > I am confused as well.... > Although he does not eat meat now, he does not know if > it is a Sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 I wonder : Don't you think sometimes it's enough to be tolerant, patient, with what is untolerable ? Don't you think that there are situations and people which / who are truely despisable (hunters or vivisectionists for example) ? Even Gandhi was making a "value judgement" when he said "la grandeur d'une nation se mesure à la façon dont elle traite ses animaux" (sorry I can't translate but I suppose you all know this sentence)... In fact, I wonder if it's a real problem to hate, to despise, to dislike, to judge. You can feel this feelings and not to be violent of course. But when you feel this feelings, you act, you react, you do something ! Even in the Bible (I think), it's said that God doesn't like people too warm, he prefers "hot people"... - Oliver Slay ' ' Monday, March 25, 2002 8:49 PM RE: preaching to the converted..... do you despise everyone? ... if you despise one group MORE THAN another .. it implies that you despise both groups... and religous people v. atheists/agnostics doesn't leave much room for anyone else on the planet... i don't mean to pick on you ... but you speak too much of hate, despising and dislike... and this is not a compassionate stance... IF you hate ... you are more likely to be nasty without intending to be nasty ... you may not even notice how nasty some of your own actions might be ... namaste Z I despise religious people more than atheists/agnostics because they have a set of rules to live by which should make them more compassionate than non believers but they are not (with a few exceptions )~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 i agree... altho i think the Gandhi statement is taken out of context and therefore 'looks like' a 'value judgement' ... i do not think there are people who are despisable ... no ... i would try to understand why they do what they do ... but they have been 'educated' to do what they do ... who are they to argue with the massive authority of the academia ? .. and they have been taught from an early age that they should go to school and learn ... but what is this learning? ... and their parents have fed them meat throughout their childhood ... so it's got to be ok, right? ... and then ARP come along and tell them that every other person in authority in their lives has been leading them into acts of cruelty... that person is not to blame as an individual ... the whole society is at fault ... you can mock the person you can despise him .... but doing so will not change the society that created him.... God lived in the Middle East so he must have had a really social time of it ... :-) Z - Snoocat Monday, March 25, 2002 9:05 PM Re: preaching to the converted..... I wonder : Don't you think sometimes it's enough to be tolerant, patient, with what is untolerable ? Don't you think that there are situations and people which / who are truely despisable (hunters or vivisectionists for example) ? Even Gandhi was making a "value judgement" when he said "la grandeur d'une nation se mesure à la façon dont elle traite ses animaux" (sorry I can't translate but I suppose you all know this sentence)... In fact, I wonder if it's a real problem to hate, to despise, to dislike, to judge. You can feel this feelings and not to be violent of course. But when you feel this feelings, you act, you react, you do something ! Even in the Bible (I think), it's said that God doesn't like people too warm, he prefers "hot people"... - Oliver Slay ' ' Monday, March 25, 2002 8:49 PM RE: preaching to the converted..... do you despise everyone? ... if you despise one group MORE THAN another .. it implies that you despise both groups... and religous people v. atheists/agnostics doesn't leave much room for anyone else on the planet... i don't mean to pick on you ... but you speak too much of hate, despising and dislike... and this is not a compassionate stance... IF you hate ... you are more likely to be nasty without intending to be nasty ... you may not even notice how nasty some of your own actions might be ... namaste Z I despise religious people more than atheists/agnostics because they have a set of rules to live by which should make them more compassionate than non believers but they are not (with a few exceptions )~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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