Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 > and a bit of meat is cheaper than a bit of tofu... And vegetables without meat or tofu is cheaper still. Trump! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 my point wasn't about the cost of food ... it's about trying to teach people things that aren't important to them at the time... i'm not playing a game of oneupmanship ... either... - " Mavreela " <nec.lists Tuesday, March 26, 2002 9:32 AM Dietary costs (is nothing to do with Angie) > > > and a bit of meat is cheaper than a bit of tofu... > > And vegetables without meat or tofu is cheaper still. > > Trump! > > Michael > > > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 I would have thought that people who had suffered, poverty, deprivation, victims of bullying, etc, would be more likely to want to prevent suffering, and be more likely to identify with the animals, than rich and privileged people, just a thought. Lesley Oliver Slay [oliver] 26 March 2002 11:45 Re: Dietary costs (is nothing to do with Angie) my point wasn't about the cost of food ... it's about trying to teach people things that aren't important to them at the time... i'm not playing a game of oneupmanship ... either... - " Mavreela " <nec.lists Tuesday, March 26, 2002 9:32 AM Dietary costs (is nothing to do with Angie) > > > and a bit of meat is cheaper than a bit of tofu... > > And vegetables without meat or tofu is cheaper still. > > Trump! > > Michael > > > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 > my point wasn't about the cost of food ... it's about trying to teach people > things that aren't important to them at the time... So by saying that " a bit of meat is cheaper than a bit of tofu " you are saying that what is important to them is the cost of living, not animal welfare? But if the cost of a vegatable diet is cheaper than a meat or tofu one it is very relevant to them. Plus better health means less time off work without sick pay which is also very relevant to them. But then again does " what's important to you " really give you an exception from acting ethically? If the only way you can feed your family is to steal from other poor people who can't afford fancy alarms and security systems does that make it okay? It may be wrong to steal but can you teach that to someone when it isn't that important to them? the point about ethical vegetarianism is that it is EVERY BIT as immoral to eat animals as it is to steal or murder another human. Exceptions can be made for people in Tibet if there really is no choice, just like self defence can justify murder if it as as a last resort. But if somebody doesn't find something impotant it does not make them exmpt from being judged and criticized. And when I said trump I meant that a vegetable diet trumps the meat and tofus ones. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 > that important to them? the point about ethical vegetarianism is > that it is EVERY BIT as immoral to eat animals as it is to steal or > murder another human. Exceptions can be made for people in > Tibet if there really is no choice, just like self defence can justify > murder if it as as a last resort. But if somebody doesn't find > something impotant it does not make them exmpt from being > judged and criticized. well since I've been an ethical vegan for 8 years, i think i already understood what ethical vegetarianism is, thank you... i don't know any more about Brixton ... i only said what the dietician told me ... it's not about it being possible ... it's about it not being the firstmost concern of hers as a dietician ... where does someone get off making exceptions for people ? make an exception from what? from their own ideals in their own life so that they don't hate them? hate is such a wrong word to use here... hate can only exist where there are ideals... and ideals are bindings on personal/social growth ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 > i don't know any more about Brixton ... i only said what the dietician told > me ... it's not about it being possible ... it's about it not being the > firstmost concern of hers as a dietician ... Then maybe it should be a concern. > where does someone get off making exceptions for people ? And where fo you get off making exceptions for animals? You're the one who made the exception for people in Tibet and Brixton, not I. > make an exception > from what? from their own ideals in their own life so that they don't hate > them? So they don't hate who? Sorry, I don't understand. If you are saying that ethical veganism is all about " own ideals " then maybe you don't understand it. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2002 Report Share Posted March 26, 2002 > > i don't know any more about Brixton ... i only said what the > dietician told > > me ... it's not about it being possible ... it's about it not being > the > > firstmost concern of hers as a dietician ... > > Then maybe it should be a concern. before she met me she didn't know any vegans... her interest in nutrition led her to ask certain questions of me ... i answered to the best of my ability ... she is now familiar with it... i only met her twice... maybe she will change and maybe not... i do my bit... > > where does someone get off making exceptions for people ? > > And where fo you get off making exceptions for animals? i have not made any exceptions ... > You're the one who made the exception for people in Tibet and > Brixton, not I. right ... are you going to go out there to Tibet and see what it is like? .... how absurd it would be to even consider a vegan diet in those conditions... that is not an exception in my book ... it's not even a question of ethics... if you're stranded on a boat in the middle of the sea and you have a spear gun ... you have little water ... but you need food to survive more than 20-30 days ... ? are you going to spend your time trying to spear sea-weed or fish ... or would you let yourself die because you are vegan and you don't eat fish? > So they don't hate who? Sorry, I don't understand. If you are > saying that ethical veganism is all about " own ideals " then > maybe you don't understand it. yes.. i am saying ethical veganism is about ideals ... and i am saying that those ideals will break down when put to tests ... simply because you would not want to die if starving... and that self-interest of 'not-dying' would win over all other self-interests... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 It's not unknown for people to die for their ideals - that's what hunger strikes are about. Cheers Viv " You'll Never Walk Alone with a Basenji " www.veganvillage.co.uk www.vegansociety.com http://VEGAN-info.com/index.htm Oliver Slay [oliver] Tuesday, March 26, 2002 4:27 PM ' ' RE: Re: Dietary costs (is nothing to do with Angie) .... if you're stranded on a boat in the middle of the sea and you have a spear gun ... you have little water ... but you need food to survive more than 20-30 days ... ? are you going to spend your time trying to spear sea-weed or fish ... or would you let yourself die because you are vegan and you don't eat fish? > So they don't hate who? Sorry, I don't understand. If you are > saying that ethical veganism is all about " own ideals " then > maybe you don't understand it. yes.. i am saying ethical veganism is about ideals ... and i am saying that those ideals will break down when put to tests ... simply because you would not want to die if starving... and that self-interest of 'not-dying' would win over all other self-interests... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 isn't that when they are doing it for a greater cause... with greater publicity ? would they do it if they were in the middle of the ocean with nothing to prove to anyone? Z - " Viv " <Viv Wednesday, March 27, 2002 1:35 AM RE: Re: Dietary costs (is nothing to do with Angie) > It's not unknown for people to die for their ideals - that's what hunger > strikes are about. > > Cheers > > Viv > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2002 Report Share Posted March 29, 2002 Yes they're doing it for publicity but if they weren't committed to the cause they'd never be able to keep it going. And if you're in the middle of the ocean, or elsewhere, there's always yourself. Otherwise, ethical vegans could eat what they wanted indoors and only be vegan in public... Cheers Viv " You'll Never Walk Alone with a Basenji " www.veganvillage.co.uk www.vegansociety.com http://VEGAN-info.com/index.htm Oliver Slay [oliver] Wednesday, March 27, 2002 2:00 AM Re: Re: Dietary costs (is nothing to do with Angie) isn't that when they are doing it for a greater cause... with greater publicity ? would they do it if they were in the middle of the ocean with nothing to prove to anyone? Z - " Viv " <Viv Wednesday, March 27, 2002 1:35 AM RE: Re: Dietary costs (is nothing to do with Angie) > It's not unknown for people to die for their ideals - that's what hunger > strikes are about. > > Cheers > > Viv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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