Its possible to be a relatively ethical smoker. (don't think its OT)

[Guest guest]

I smoke, and most of the cigarettes I smoke, 95% of the time I smoke

them alone: either at home, or outdoors, which hardly affects non-

smokers, and compared to other forms of pollution (I don't drive a

car) hardly affects the environment. My justifaction for smoking and

not having the willpower to give up (sometimes i try) is that I live

in a meat dominated society and it gives me a bit of free space to

escape.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

First off, allot of vegans are smokers. And allot of

them struggle with addiction. Smoking is very hard to

beat- harder than heroine, I hear. You really have to

pick your battles. If you have too much stress in your

life to quit, and your not doing any harm to any one

else, then I dont see a problem with it.

 

 

 

Everything you'll ever need on one web page

from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts

http://uk.my.

[Guest guest]

Although when I go to the pub (I go seldomly), I inevitably join the

throngs of smokers who are the cause of the problems of passive

smokers, even if its just to cope with the smell of all the other

smokers (yes, sad but true, its a lot easier to function in a really

smoky environment if you are a smoker)?

 

, <ned_flagherty> wrote:

> Hi,

> First off, allot of vegans are smokers. And allot of

> them struggle with addiction. Smoking is very hard to

> beat- harder than heroine, I hear. You really have to

> pick your battles. If you have too much stress in your

> life to quit, and your not doing any harm to any one

> else, then I dont see a problem with it.

>

>

>

> Everything you'll ever need on one web page

> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts

> http://uk.my.

[Guest guest]

I thought you had given up, you said so the other day.

I have heard that Allen Carr's book is very good at motivating smokers to

quit for good.

 

Fortunately not all smokers are that considerate of those of us who get ill

around it. They are the ones I have the problem with. My mother always

smoked indoors and did not care that it made me ill - too addicted to care

about the effect on anyone else.

 

Lesley

 

 

 

geouze [djules_75]

27 March 2002 12:47

 

Its possible to be a relatively ethical smoker.

(don't think its OT)

 

 

I smoke, and most of the cigarettes I smoke, 95% of the time I smoke

them alone: either at home, or outdoors, which hardly affects non-

smokers, and compared to other forms of pollution (I don't drive a

car) hardly affects the environment. My justifaction for smoking and

not having the willpower to give up (sometimes i try) is that I live

in a meat dominated society and it gives me a bit of free space to

escape.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

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[Guest guest]

well, at least you are trying to stay in one place,

and show some respect for the non smokers by sticking

to your areas of those smoking....If I were a smoker,

Id be pretty uncomfortable lighting up in front of a

non smoker too....I mean you dont want any one

thinking you are trying to be rude.....

 

 

 

Everything you'll ever need on one web page

from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts

http://uk.my.

[Guest guest]

Lesley:

 

>Fortunately not all smokers are that considerate of those of us who

>get ill around it.

 

I don't usually hear anything as depressing or that makes me want to

give up smoking more than the above statement.

No, I haven't given up, I'm postponing it.

 

Ned:

 

>If I were a smoker,

>Id be pretty uncomfortable lighting up in front of a

>non smoker too....I mean you dont want any one

>thinking you are trying to be rude.....

 

Unusually, I have just did that in my break today with a small group

of non-smokers, and yes, they were all meat eaters, and yes, almost

everything I said implied either subtly or bluntly that I was a vegan

and they weren't, and YES i FEEL GUILTY FOR BEING A BAD EXAMPLE TO

VEGANISM BUT AM REPRESSING IT (the guilt) and there is nothing I can

do.

 

Punk and anarchy suck.

[Guest guest]

thats ok, they repress the guilt they feel when they

eat a burger in front of you. Take comfort in the

knowlege that they secretly know you are right, and

they are trying not to look embarrased eating meat!

 

 

 

Everything you'll ever need on one web page

from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts

http://uk.my.

[Guest guest]

i tried being a non-smoker for a few months ... i went to a hypnotherapist

.... it was fine ... pretty easy ... but i didn't get on with being a

non-smoker... i was too stressed ... and what caused me to take up smoking

in the first place had not been resolved ... os i found that after a few

months i slipped back into smoking ...

 

i think Michael would say that if you are a smoker and you go cold turkey

then Sartre would call that 'bad faith' ... :-) ... you are not being true

to yourself... (hmm doesn't that show how useless Sartre can be in laying

down an example... ?)

 

i felt like a non-smoking smoker... i never feel like a smoking

non-smoker...

 

ethical ? ... how much do south american tobacco harvesters get for their

long hours? what are their working conditions like?

 

a search on Google.com ... 'industry and ethics' gives 725,000 results of

which...

 

'computer industry ethics' gives 326,000 results...

'medical industry ethics' gives 283,000 results...

'car industry ethics' gives 113,000 results...

'electronics industry ethics' gives 51,800 results...

'tobacco industry ethics' gives 41,200 results...

'meat industry ethics' gives 24,900 results...

'milk industry ethics' gives 20,900 results...

'leather industry ethics' gives 9,010 results...

 

those are the only ones i tried...

 

 

>

> geouze [djules_75]

> Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:19 PM

>

> Re: Its possible to be a relatively ethical smoker.

> (don't think its OT)

>

>

> Lesley:

>

> >Fortunately not all smokers are that considerate of those of us who

> >get ill around it.

>

> I don't usually hear anything as depressing or that makes me want to

> give up smoking more than the above statement.

> No, I haven't given up, I'm postponing it.

>

> Ned:

>

> >If I were a smoker,

> >Id be pretty uncomfortable lighting up in front of a

> >non smoker too....I mean you dont want any one

> >thinking you are trying to be rude.....

>

> Unusually, I have just did that in my break today with a small group

> of non-smokers, and yes, they were all meat eaters, and yes, almost

> everything I said implied either subtly or bluntly that I was a vegan

> and they weren't, and YES i FEEL GUILTY FOR BEING A BAD EXAMPLE TO

> VEGANISM BUT AM REPRESSING IT (the guilt) and there is nothing I can

> do.

>

> Punk and anarchy suck.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

---I found giving up smoking one of the most difficult things I've

done(cold vegan turkey) but the best thing I've ever done,except

giving up eating animals for food and useing them for clothing

etc,which I didn't find that difficult in comparison to smoking!Now

both are vices in the past, thank God-ness.

SP,

 

 

 

n , Oliver Slay <oliver@l...> wrote:

> i tried being a non-smoker for a few months ... i went to a

hypnotherapist

> ... it was fine ... pretty easy ... but i didn't get on with being a

> non-smoker... i was too stressed ... and what caused me to take up

smoking

> in the first place had not been resolved ... os i found that after

a few

> months i slipped back into smoking ...

>

> i think Michael would say that if you are a smoker and you go cold

turkey

> then Sartre would call that 'bad faith' ... :-) ... you are not

being true

> to yourself... (hmm doesn't that show how useless Sartre can be in

laying

> down an example... ?)

>

> i felt like a non-smoking smoker... i never feel like a smoking

> non-smoker...

>

> ethical ? ... how much do south american tobacco harvesters get for

their

> long hours? what are their working conditions like?

>

> a search on Google.com ... 'industry and ethics' gives 725,000

results of

> which...

>

> 'computer industry ethics' gives 326,000 results...

> 'medical industry ethics' gives 283,000 results...

> 'car industry ethics' gives 113,000 results...

> 'electronics industry ethics' gives 51,800 results...

> 'tobacco industry ethics' gives 41,200 results...

> 'meat industry ethics' gives 24,900 results...

> 'milk industry ethics' gives 20,900 results...

> 'leather industry ethics' gives 9,010 results...

>

> those are the only ones i tried...

>

>

> >

> > geouze [djules_75]

> > Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:19 PM

> >

> > Re: Its possible to be a relatively ethical

smoker.

> > (don't think its OT)

> >

> >

> > Lesley:

> >

> > >Fortunately not all smokers are that considerate of those of us

who

> > >get ill around it.

> >

> > I don't usually hear anything as depressing or that makes me want

to

> > give up smoking more than the above statement.

> > No, I haven't given up, I'm postponing it.

> >

> > Ned:

> >

> > >If I were a smoker,

> > >Id be pretty uncomfortable lighting up in front of a

> > >non smoker too....I mean you dont want any one

> > >thinking you are trying to be rude.....

> >

> > Unusually, I have just did that in my break today with a small

group

> > of non-smokers, and yes, they were all meat eaters, and yes,

almost

> > everything I said implied either subtly or bluntly that I was a

vegan

> > and they weren't, and YES i FEEL GUILTY FOR BEING A BAD EXAMPLE

TO

> > VEGANISM BUT AM REPRESSING IT (the guilt) and there is nothing I

can

> > do.

> >

> > Punk and anarchy suck.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Oops I meant unfortunately.

 

Lesley

 

 

Lesley Dove [Lesley]

27 March 2002 13:34

 

RE: Its possible to be a relatively ethical smoker.

(don't think its OT)

 

 

 

I thought you had given up, you said so the other day.

I have heard that Allen Carr's book is very good at motivating smokers to

quit for good.

 

Fortunately not all smokers are that considerate of those of us who get ill

around it. They are the ones I have the problem with. My mother always

smoked indoors and did not care that it made me ill - too addicted to care

about the effect on anyone else.

 

Lesley

 

 

 

geouze [djules_75]

27 March 2002 12:47

 

Its possible to be a relatively ethical smoker.

(don't think its OT)

 

 

I smoke, and most of the cigarettes I smoke, 95% of the time I smoke

them alone: either at home, or outdoors, which hardly affects non-

smokers, and compared to other forms of pollution (I don't drive a

car) hardly affects the environment. My justifaction for smoking and

not having the willpower to give up (sometimes i try) is that I live

in a meat dominated society and it gives me a bit of free space to

escape.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author,

there may be another side to the story you have not heard.

---------------------------

Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>

Un: send a blank message to -

 

 

[Guest guest]

I always have hated smoke, so it was never a vice of mine.

It amazes me how many people can even tolerate smoke, let alone actually

want to breathe it in in concentrated amounts. I can't even breathe properly

around second-hand smoke. I even find incense sticks cause me catarrh and

phlegm, so it's not confined to tobacco.

I was in a local chinese takeaway the other week and someone started smoking

and I had to go outside, I was unable to breathe properly, and a man stopped

and called out an ambulance. The smoking man was really nasty, he came out

with his food (probably some poor dead animal) and said I should be in a

psychiatric hospital for having a go at him in the takeaway! I was sitting

outside struggling to breathe, so I don't understand why he thought I was

mentally ill, as he was the one who was doing the harm to himself and

others. I thought that being a danger to self or others was a possible

grounds for sectioning, but my breathing problems are not good grounds for

considering me mentally ill. It's not psychosomatic because I get breathing

trouble sometimes, and then only after I've started with it do I smell or

see someone is smoking nearby. I suppose it counts as self-harming if I go

out at all and the smoking man expected people who get ill from second-hand

smoke to be total recluses [sarcasm].

 

Lesley

 

 

 

vegicate1 [simonpjones]

27 March 2002 16:12

 

Re: Its possible to be a relatively ethical smoker.

(don't think its OT)

 

 

---I found giving up smoking one of the most difficult things I've

done(cold vegan turkey) but the best thing I've ever done,except

giving up eating animals for food and useing them for clothing

etc,which I didn't find that difficult in comparison to smoking!Now

both are vices in the past, thank God-ness.

SP,

 

 

 

n , Oliver Slay <oliver@l...> wrote:

> i tried being a non-smoker for a few months ... i went to a

hypnotherapist

> ... it was fine ... pretty easy ... but i didn't get on with being a

> non-smoker... i was too stressed ... and what caused me to take up

smoking

> in the first place had not been resolved ... os i found that after

a few

> months i slipped back into smoking ...

>

> i think Michael would say that if you are a smoker and you go cold

turkey

> then Sartre would call that 'bad faith' ... :-) ... you are not

being true

> to yourself... (hmm doesn't that show how useless Sartre can be in

laying

> down an example... ?)

>

> i felt like a non-smoking smoker... i never feel like a smoking

> non-smoker...

>

> ethical ? ... how much do south american tobacco harvesters get for

their

> long hours? what are their working conditions like?

>

> a search on Google.com ... 'industry and ethics' gives 725,000

results of

> which...

>

> 'computer industry ethics' gives 326,000 results...

> 'medical industry ethics' gives 283,000 results...

> 'car industry ethics' gives 113,000 results...

> 'electronics industry ethics' gives 51,800 results...

> 'tobacco industry ethics' gives 41,200 results...

> 'meat industry ethics' gives 24,900 results...

> 'milk industry ethics' gives 20,900 results...

> 'leather industry ethics' gives 9,010 results...

>

> those are the only ones i tried...

>

>

> >

> > geouze [djules_75]

> > Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:19 PM

> >

> > Re: Its possible to be a relatively ethical

smoker.

> > (don't think its OT)

> >

> >

> > Lesley:

> >

> > >Fortunately not all smokers are that considerate of those of us

who

> > >get ill around it.

> >

> > I don't usually hear anything as depressing or that makes me want

to

> > give up smoking more than the above statement.

> > No, I haven't given up, I'm postponing it.

> >

> > Ned:

> >

> > >If I were a smoker,

> > >Id be pretty uncomfortable lighting up in front of a

> > >non smoker too....I mean you dont want any one

> > >thinking you are trying to be rude.....

> >

> > Unusually, I have just did that in my break today with a small

group

> > of non-smokers, and yes, they were all meat eaters, and yes,

almost

> > everything I said implied either subtly or bluntly that I was a

vegan

> > and they weren't, and YES i FEEL GUILTY FOR BEING A BAD EXAMPLE

TO

> > VEGANISM BUT AM REPRESSING IT (the guilt) and there is nothing I

can

> > do.

> >

> > Punk and anarchy suck.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> i think Michael would say that if you are a smoker and you go

cold turkey

> then Sartre would call that 'bad faith' ... :-) ... you are not being

true

> to yourself... (hmm doesn't that show how useless Sartre can

be in laying

> down an example... ?)

 

But if you are choosing not to be a smoker then there is no bad

faith. Bodily reactions are facticity and what matters is how you

react to them.

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

Yeah but I'm still doing myself harm, whereas when they eat meat its

still mildly beneficial to them. It feels like even though I am not

playing any games, or competing, they are still winning.

 

I suppose if I smoked while meat eaters were eating meat, that would

be perfect equilibrium. DAMN it. The canteen is non-smoking.

 

, <ned_flagherty> wrote:

> thats ok, they repress the guilt they feel when they

> eat a burger in front of you. Take comfort in the

> knowlege that they secretly know you are right, and

> they are trying not to look embarrased eating meat!

>

>

>

> Everything you'll ever need on one web page

> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts

> http://uk.my.

[Guest guest]

I have no problem with smokers. Can appreciate how people on low incomes

smoke because it's possibly their only pleasure in life. I don't smoke but I

shop - and giving that up is extremely difficult tho have been trying for

ages now. To give an idea of the problem, my debts are now as much as three

quarters of the price I paid for my flat 8 years ago...

So you enjoy your smoking. You'll know when it's time to give up, when

you're able to.

 

 

Cheers

 

Viv

 

" You'll Never Walk Alone with a Basenji "

www.veganvillage.co.uk

www.vegansociety.com

http://VEGAN-info.com/index.htm

 

 

 

geouze [djules_75]

Wednesday, March 27, 2002 12:47 PM

 

Its possible to be a relatively ethical smoker.

(don't think its OT)

 

 

I smoke, and most of the cigarettes I smoke, 95% of the time I smoke

them alone: either at home, or outdoors, which hardly affects non-

smokers, and compared to other forms of pollution (I don't drive a

car) hardly affects the environment. My justifaction for smoking and

not having the willpower to give up (sometimes i try) is that I live

in a meat dominated society and it gives me a bit of free space to

escape.