Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 ok .. so you take the definition of right ... 'to be in accordance with a rule, law or truth' ... and you say that all that that fits to that definition is right ... and all that doesn't fit into that definition is wrong... i don't think you will find the ultimate right and wrong to have an anthropodic definition ... and it definitely won't be vegan when the world collapses into a dense point before it bursts... (killing all of us and all the animals too)... > We can only hope to do what is right based on our > desire to do right! and when a person thinks that they are right to teach their child a lesson by stabbing her in the hand with a carving knife... because they desire to do right? when a person thinks it is all right to eat meat ... ? > > vegicate1 [simonpjones] > Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:52 PM > > Re: Hate (was tibetans vegan?) [OT]right and > wrong,{OT} > > > ---I use the words right and wrong, good and bad and love and hate as > dictionaries define the words, as opposites, how we decide what is > right and wrong in the real world can be diffcult in the mixed up > state it is in at the moment!I believe there is a ultimate right and > wrong which is true regardless of what we pathetic,arrogant humans at > times might decide.We can only hope to do what is right based on our > desire to do right! thats why a little bit of an awareness, that we > are not greater then that which made us! whether you believe in God > or some dead consciousless matter that came to life and just happened > to evolve living creatures through a mixture of different matter, > which just happened to exit anyway.There could be planets out there > the size of marbles with life similiar to ours in it!or insects on > planets with eyeballs the size of Jupiter!I find it to hard to > believe that there no conscious creator! whatever the case! > sp, > > > > > In , Oliver Slay <oliver@l...> wrote: > > love and hate are not opposites ... and right and wrong are not > opposites... > > > > when someone loves completely with their whole body ... there is no > room for > > hate... can you hate someone you love? ... someone you really > love... can > > you hate them? ... is there room for it? > > > > subjectively speaking, right and wrong for you are opposites... > and right > > and wrong for me might be opposites... but what you call right and > wrong, > > and what i call right and wrong, are not the same ... will never be > the > > same... so why not question whether right and wrong are > opposites... let's > > question whether opposite is the right word to be using here... > > > > what is the wrong way to do something ? ... is the wrong way to do > something > > the way that i have been educated to do it? ... are you going to > stand in > > front of someone and tell them that? > > > > let's use a little science knowledge ... if you are doing an > experiment ... > > to test your theory ... most results fit your theory ... but there > are some > > results that do not fit ... are they wrong? ... or is your initial > theory > > wrong? ... it's a 'sin' (hamartia) when the results do not fit 100% > with > > your theories... and in order to repent (metanoia) you must adjust > your own > > theories until the results fit ... > > > > so you have values... you have values that you have created in your > lifetime > > due to the (relatively) immediate environment in which you live ... > the > > village the town the area... the society .. the country ... the > continent > > ... > > > > and yet we place these values on the universe ... a universe where > there is > > no mercy for any part... stars die just because they might get > sucked into a > > black hole ... stars are born ... some plastic surgery and some > stars are > > reborn ... where tidal waves kill people ... and tornadoes rip up > homes... > > (don't you just hate tidal waves?) > > > > so what is right and what is wrong? ... in 15th century Korea boys > of 9 > > years old were married to 14 year old girls... you might say that is > > wrong... but 4-20 million Koreans would have put you in the corner > and > > laughed at you for being so silly... they don't do it now ... > because some > > self-righteous missionaries came along and told them they shouldn't > do it > > because it was wrong... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vegicate1 [simonpjones@o...] > > > Wednesday, March 27, 2002 11:59 AM > > > > > > Re: Hate (was tibetans vegan?) [OT] > > > > > > > > > ---Love and hate are opposite entities,like right and wrong!If we > > > love what is right and hate what is wrong,then surely we will > surly > > > win the battle! > > > SP, > > > > > > > > > In , " Oliver Slay " <oliver@l...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Maybe without hate there could be no love. And as easy as it > is > > > > > to love everyone through understanding it makes us vulnerable > > > > > while it is hate that installs in us the doubt that protects > us. > > > The > > > > > questions is not whether we should hate, but that we should > > > > > learn to use it and channel it better. > > > > > > > > what?! ... where there is love there can be no hate.... ! > > > > > > > > is this not clear enough? > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 ---I think the best hope we have to know what is right from wrong is through sincere desire to find that ultimate right, If we don't believe there is a right or wrong and we dont seek to live by it what hope can there be in improveming life on earth! SP, In , Oliver Slay <oliver@l...> wrote: > ok .. so you take the definition of right ... 'to be in accordance with a > rule, law or truth' ... and you say that all that that fits to that > definition is right ... and all that doesn't fit into that definition is > wrong... > > i don't think you will find the ultimate right and wrong to have an > anthropodic definition ... > > and it definitely won't be vegan when the world collapses into a dense point > before it bursts... (killing all of us and all the animals too)... > > > We can only hope to do what is right based on our > > desire to do right! > > and when a person thinks that they are right to teach their child a lesson > by stabbing her in the hand with a carving knife... because they desire to > do right? > > when a person thinks it is all right to eat meat ... ? > > > > > > > > > vegicate1 [simonpjones@o...] > > Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:52 PM > > > > Re: Hate (was tibetans vegan?) [OT]right and > > wrong,{OT} > > > > > > ---I use the words right and wrong, good and bad and love and hate as > > dictionaries define the words, as opposites, how we decide what is > > right and wrong in the real world can be diffcult in the mixed up > > state it is in at the moment!I believe there is a ultimate right and > > wrong which is true regardless of what we pathetic,arrogant humans at > > times might decide.We can only hope to do what is right based on our > > desire to do right! thats why a little bit of an awareness, that we > > are not greater then that which made us! whether you believe in God > > or some dead consciousless matter that came to life and just happened > > to evolve living creatures through a mixture of different matter, > > which just happened to exit anyway.There could be planets out there > > the size of marbles with life similiar to ours in it!or insects on > > planets with eyeballs the size of Jupiter!I find it to hard to > > believe that there no conscious creator! whatever the case! > > sp, > > > > > > > > > > In , Oliver Slay <oliver@l...> wrote: > > > love and hate are not opposites ... and right and wrong are not > > opposites... > > > > > > when someone loves completely with their whole body ... there is no > > room for > > > hate... can you hate someone you love? ... someone you really > > love... can > > > you hate them? ... is there room for it? > > > > > > subjectively speaking, right and wrong for you are opposites... > > and right > > > and wrong for me might be opposites... but what you call right and > > wrong, > > > and what i call right and wrong, are not the same ... will never be > > the > > > same... so why not question whether right and wrong are > > opposites... let's > > > question whether opposite is the right word to be using here... > > > > > > what is the wrong way to do something ? ... is the wrong way to do > > something > > > the way that i have been educated to do it? ... are you going to > > stand in > > > front of someone and tell them that? > > > > > > let's use a little science knowledge ... if you are doing an > > experiment ... > > > to test your theory ... most results fit your theory ... but there > > are some > > > results that do not fit ... are they wrong? ... or is your initial > > theory > > > wrong? ... it's a 'sin' (hamartia) when the results do not fit 100% > > with > > > your theories... and in order to repent (metanoia) you must adjust > > your own > > > theories until the results fit ... > > > > > > so you have values... you have values that you have created in your > > lifetime > > > due to the (relatively) immediate environment in which you live ... > > the > > > village the town the area... the society .. the country ... the > > continent > > > ... > > > > > > and yet we place these values on the universe ... a universe where > > there is > > > no mercy for any part... stars die just because they might get > > sucked into a > > > black hole ... stars are born ... some plastic surgery and some > > stars are > > > reborn ... where tidal waves kill people ... and tornadoes rip up > > homes... > > > (don't you just hate tidal waves?) > > > > > > so what is right and what is wrong? ... in 15th century Korea boys > > of 9 > > > years old were married to 14 year old girls... you might say that is > > > wrong... but 4-20 million Koreans would have put you in the corner > > and > > > laughed at you for being so silly... they don't do it now ... > > because some > > > self-righteous missionaries came along and told them they shouldn't > > do it > > > because it was wrong... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vegicate1 [simonpjones@o...] > > > > Wednesday, March 27, 2002 11:59 AM > > > > > > > > Re: Hate (was tibetans vegan?) [OT] > > > > > > > > > > > > ---Love and hate are opposite entities,like right and wrong! If we > > > > love what is right and hate what is wrong,then surely we will > > surly > > > > win the battle! > > > > SP, > > > > > > > > > > > > In , " Oliver Slay " <oliver@l...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe without hate there could be no love. And as easy as it > > is > > > > > > to love everyone through understanding it makes us vulnerable > > > > > > while it is hate that installs in us the doubt that protects > > us. > > > > The > > > > > > questions is not whether we should hate, but that we should > > > > > > learn to use it and channel it better. > > > > > > > > > > what?! ... where there is love there can be no hate.... ! > > > > > > > > > > is this not clear enough? > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 perhaps it is just vain and arrogant to think one can improve life on earth... we see that we can can be good and we have projected that to it's extreme and so there must be an 'ultimate good' ... science pins its hopes on an 'ultimate objective reality' one that can account for all subjective reality as well... you are looking for an 'ultimate right' ... if there is to be an ultimate right ... then this will apply to not just where we want our universe to be ... but it would apply to where our universe is right now... and thus it would contain all those acts that you consider to be wrong... > > vegicate1 [simonpjones] > Wednesday, March 27, 2002 5:19 PM > > Re: [OT] RIGHT and wrong,{OT} > > > ---I think the best hope we have to know what is right from wrong is > through sincere desire to find that ultimate right, If we don't > believe there is a right or wrong and we dont seek to live by it what > hope can there be in improveming life on earth! > SP, > > > > In , Oliver Slay <oliver@l...> wrote: > > ok .. so you take the definition of right ... 'to be in accordance > with a > > rule, law or truth' ... and you say that all that that fits to that > > definition is right ... and all that doesn't fit into that > definition is > > wrong... > > > > i don't think you will find the ultimate right and wrong to have an > > anthropodic definition ... > > > > and it definitely won't be vegan when the world collapses into a > dense point > > before it bursts... (killing all of us and all the animals too)... > > > > > We can only hope to do what is right based on our > > > desire to do right! > > > > and when a person thinks that they are right to teach their child a > lesson > > by stabbing her in the hand with a carving knife... because they > desire to > > do right? > > > > when a person thinks it is all right to eat meat ... ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vegicate1 [simonpjones@o...] > > > Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:52 PM > > > > > > Re: Hate (was tibetans vegan?) [OT]right and > > > wrong,{OT} > > > > > > > > > ---I use the words right and wrong, good and bad and love and > hate as > > > dictionaries define the words, as opposites, how we decide what > is > > > right and wrong in the real world can be diffcult in the mixed up > > > state it is in at the moment!I believe there is a ultimate right > and > > > wrong which is true regardless of what we pathetic,arrogant > humans at > > > times might decide.We can only hope to do what is right based on > our > > > desire to do right! thats why a little bit of an awareness, that > we > > > are not greater then that which made us! whether you believe in > God > > > or some dead consciousless matter that came to life and just > happened > > > to evolve living creatures through a mixture of different matter, > > > which just happened to exit anyway.There could be planets out > there > > > the size of marbles with life similiar to ours in it!or insects > on > > > planets with eyeballs the size of Jupiter!I find it to hard to > > > believe that there no conscious creator! whatever the case! > > > sp, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In , Oliver Slay <oliver@l...> wrote: > > > > love and hate are not opposites ... and right and wrong are not > > > opposites... > > > > > > > > when someone loves completely with their whole body ... there > is no > > > room for > > > > hate... can you hate someone you love? ... someone you really > > > love... can > > > > you hate them? ... is there room for it? > > > > > > > > subjectively speaking, right and wrong for you are > opposites... > > > and right > > > > and wrong for me might be opposites... but what you call right > and > > > wrong, > > > > and what i call right and wrong, are not the same ... will > never be > > > the > > > > same... so why not question whether right and wrong are > > > opposites... let's > > > > question whether opposite is the right word to be using here... > > > > > > > > what is the wrong way to do something ? ... is the wrong way to > do > > > something > > > > the way that i have been educated to do it? ... are you going > to > > > stand in > > > > front of someone and tell them that? > > > > > > > > let's use a little science knowledge ... if you are doing an > > > experiment ... > > > > to test your theory ... most results fit your theory ... but > there > > > are some > > > > results that do not fit ... are they wrong? ... or is your > initial > > > theory > > > > wrong? ... it's a 'sin' (hamartia) when the results do not fit > 100% > > > with > > > > your theories... and in order to repent (metanoia) you must > adjust > > > your own > > > > theories until the results fit ... > > > > > > > > so you have values... you have values that you have created in > your > > > lifetime > > > > due to the (relatively) immediate environment in which you > live ... > > > the > > > > village the town the area... the society .. the country ... the > > > continent > > > > ... > > > > > > > > and yet we place these values on the universe ... a universe > where > > > there is > > > > no mercy for any part... stars die just because they might get > > > sucked into a > > > > black hole ... stars are born ... some plastic surgery and some > > > stars are > > > > reborn ... where tidal waves kill people ... and tornadoes rip > up > > > homes... > > > > (don't you just hate tidal waves?) > > > > > > > > so what is right and what is wrong? ... in 15th century Korea > boys > > > of 9 > > > > years old were married to 14 year old girls... you might say > that is > > > > wrong... but 4-20 million Koreans would have put you in the > corner > > > and > > > > laughed at you for being so silly... they don't do it now ... > > > because some > > > > self-righteous missionaries came along and told them they > shouldn't > > > do it > > > > because it was wrong... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vegicate1 [simonpjones@o...] > > > > > Wednesday, March 27, 2002 11:59 AM > > > > > > > > > > Re: Hate (was tibetans vegan?) [OT] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---Love and hate are opposite entities,like right and wrong! > If we > > > > > love what is right and hate what is wrong,then surely we will > > > surly > > > > > win the battle! > > > > > SP, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In , " Oliver Slay " <oliver@l...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe without hate there could be no love. And as easy > as it > > > is > > > > > > > to love everyone through understanding it makes us > vulnerable > > > > > > > while it is hate that installs in us the doubt that > protects > > > us. > > > > > The > > > > > > > questions is not whether we should hate, but that we > should > > > > > > > learn to use it and channel it better. > > > > > > > > > > > > what?! ... where there is love there can be no hate.... ! > > > > > > > > > > > > is this not clear enough? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.