Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia, peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper' food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters, because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. I'm staying vegetarian for a while, until I know what is wrong with me, in the meantime I'm going to read a few more books on nutrition and learn a few recipes, and maybe think about getting a tatoo for when I go vegan again, I don't know. I'm just letting you know because I'm staying on this list, and the questionnaire when one signs up asks one whether one is vegan or not. Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 Just because he is a teacher and just because the animal product eaters are the majority, doesn't mean they are right. He had no right to tell you that vegan food is not proper food, that is offensive and I would be most likely to complain about him pushing his views onto me if I were you! Plenty of people would complain to the head if a teacher was pushing veganism at the pupils after all, so likewise we should complain if animal-eating is pushed at us by someone in a position of authority, such as a teacher. Play them at their own game and don't give in. Look at some pictures of how the chickens suffer if you need a reminder of why you went vegan. The only thing that is wrong with you is a lack of vegan peer group in your real life, I reckon. That is easy enough for a single childless person to remedy, unless you really live out in the sticks I would have thought. I always mixed with lots of vegans before I had kids, now it is harder to meet up, but I remain strong in my veganism, despite loneliness. Don't bow to peer pressure, when you know that they are wrong, and that is weak. All you have proved is that they cannot take you and your ethics seriously from now on, and you surely don't want that. You will end up hating the animal eaters even more because you will blame them for stopping you being true to yourself. Take full responsibility for your lapse. You will get very sick if you eat mainly animal products regardless of your blood group, even many animal eaters eat mostly vegan food, if you actually look at what they eat, the meat and dairy only make up a small part, otherwise they get ill. Even experts advocating meat and dairy do not generally advocate it in large amounts these days. Lesley djules_75 [djules_75] 18 April 2002 11:19 Public opinion has affected me Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia, peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper' food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters, because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. I'm staying vegetarian for a while, until I know what is wrong with me, in the meantime I'm going to read a few more books on nutrition and learn a few recipes, and maybe think about getting a tatoo for when I go vegan again, I don't know. I'm just letting you know because I'm staying on this list, and the questionnaire when one signs up asks one whether one is vegan or not. Jules ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 Sad bastard. > " djules_75 " <djules_75 > > > Public opinion has affected me >Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:18:33 -0000 > >Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia, >peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper' >food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my >blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think >I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too >hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to >myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and >to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters, >because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. _______________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 That's a little harsh from you, since you ate actual dead animal bits when you got pissed once, after being vegan. I am pretty sad and appalled that Jules would bow to peer pressure, but so did you so that one time with your animal eating friends, so maybe you should understand him! Being stubborn has its advantages, NO WAY would I have bowed to the peer pressure of meat-eating friends even when I did mix with such people. In fact any pressure from them to conform just made me even more determined to stay vegan, because I believed it was right! Lesley slg edith [slgedith] 18 April 2002 14:02 Re: Public opinion has affected me Sad bastard. > " djules_75 " <djules_75 > > > Public opinion has affected me >Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:18:33 -0000 > >Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia, >peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper' >food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my >blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think >I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too >hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to >myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and >to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters, >because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. _______________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 i don't find talking about animal suffering very useful when talking to meat-eaters... simply because animals suffering is so so distant from their small lives... they can't empathise at all... much better to find out exactly what it is they are eating ... and put it in human terms... eggs - not sure about this ... but it's like menstrual fluids... and after-birth ...? .... all wrapped up in a shell ... most adult humans feel sick when you talk about fried chicken menstruation ... bovine mammary excretions.... BME ... apparently you can't get BSE from BME .... the fact that meat is called meat makes it even further from people's minds what it actually is .... thus i am often calling pork ... dead pig ... and beef is dead cow ... mincemeat or burgers are basically mashed up cows ... i think it brings the idea of what 'meat' actually is closer to people's minds... some people remain oblivious ... some people throw up ... it's not a gender thing .. and it's not an age thing ... at least vegetables can be called vegetables, we're not guilty... (that's a good reply... to killing plants) a carrot's a carrot ... a potato's a potato ... but ground up mutilated dead cow removed from its extended family and fed on dead sheep and growth hormone.... now that's called beef! > > Lesley Dove [Lesley] > Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:40 AM > > RE: Public opinion has affected me > > > > Just because he is a teacher and just because the animal > product eaters are > the majority, doesn't mean they are right. He had no right to > tell you that > vegan food is not proper food, that is offensive and I would > be most likely > to complain about him pushing his views onto me if I were > you! Plenty of > people would complain to the head if a teacher was pushing > veganism at the > pupils after all, so likewise we should complain if > animal-eating is pushed > at us by someone in a position of authority, such as a > teacher. Play them at > their own game and don't give in. > Look at some pictures of how the chickens suffer if you need > a reminder of > why you went vegan. > The only thing that is wrong with you is a lack of vegan peer > group in your > real life, I reckon. > That is easy enough for a single childless person to remedy, > unless you > really live out in the sticks I would have thought. I always > mixed with lots > of vegans before I had kids, now it is harder to meet up, but I remain > strong in my veganism, despite loneliness. > Don't bow to peer pressure, when you know that they are > wrong, and that is > weak. > All you have proved is that they cannot take you and your > ethics seriously > from now on, and you surely don't want that. You will end up > hating the > animal eaters even more because you will blame them for > stopping you being > true to yourself. Take full responsibility for your lapse. > You will get very > sick if you eat mainly animal products regardless of your > blood group, even > many animal eaters eat mostly vegan food, if you actually > look at what they > eat, the meat and dairy only make up a small part, otherwise > they get ill. > Even experts advocating meat and dairy do not generally > advocate it in large > amounts these days. > > Lesley > > > > djules_75 [djules_75] > 18 April 2002 11:19 > > Public opinion has affected me > > > Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia, > peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper' > food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my > blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think > I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too > hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to > myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and > to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters, > because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. I'm staying > vegetarian for a while, until I know what is wrong with me, in the > meantime I'm going to read a few more books on nutrition and learn a > few recipes, and maybe think about getting a tatoo for when I go > vegan again, I don't know. I'm just letting you know because I'm > staying on this list, and the questionnaire when one signs up asks > one whether one is vegan or not. > > Jules > > > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to > - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 Don't worry Jules...you just ain't vegan yet...thats it...people who relapse never got the point in the first place. I never knew any vegans at all when I became vegan. I just got the point, bought the animal free shopper, and then took it from there. Maybe one day, when you are big enough to reason and make your own choices, you'll realise what a silly boy you've been. Pr D.C.Talking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 Why don't you give your ass a rest, Leslie? > " Lesley Dove " <Lesley > > >RE: Public opinion has affected me >Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:31:33 +0100 > >That's a little harsh from you, since you ate actual dead animal bits when >you got pissed once, after being vegan. I am pretty sad and appalled that >Jules would bow to peer pressure, but so did you so that one time with your >animal eating friends, so maybe you should understand him! >Being stubborn has its advantages, NO WAY would I have bowed to the peer >pressure of meat-eating friends even when I did mix with such people. In >fact any pressure from them to conform just made me even more determined to >stay vegan, because I believed it was right! > >Lesley > > > >slg edith [slgedith] >18 April 2002 14:02 > >Re: Public opinion has affected me > > >Sad bastard. > > > > " djules_75 " <djules_75 > > > > > > Public opinion has affected me > >Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:18:33 -0000 > > > >Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia, > >peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper' > >food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my > >blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think > >I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too > >hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to > >myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and > >to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters, > >because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. > > >_______________ >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > >~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, >there may be another side to the story you have not heard. >--------------------------- >Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> >Un: send a blank message to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 >Sad bastard. I'd be a very bad impartial moderator to say that's a fair comment, but that kind of talk's not welcome on here so don't do it again. People shouldn't be called names just because they ate something non-vegan because of circumstance. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 >at least vegetables can be called vegetables, we're not guilty... (that's a >good reply... to killing plants) Tell that to a fruitarian. Still you're right about t'other stuff. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 > >Sad bastard. > > I'd be a very bad impartial moderator to say that's a fair > comment, but i interpret this as 'That's a fair comment' > that kind of talk's not welcome on here so don't do it again. > > People shouldn't be called names just because they ate > something non-vegan > because of circumstance. > > Michael can we call it non-vegan? ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 my sentiments exactly....RAT..... That's a little harsh from you, since you ate actual dead animal bits when you got pissed once, after being vegan. I am pretty sad and appalled that Jules would bow to peer pressure, but so did you so that one time with your animal eating friends, so maybe you should understand him! Being stubborn has its advantages, NO WAY would I have bowed to the peer pressure of meat-eating friends even when I did mix with such people. In fact any pressure from them to conform just made me even more determined to stay vegan, because I believed it was right! Lesley slg edith [slgedith] 18 April 2002 14:02 Re: Public opinion has affected me Sad bastard. > " djules_75 " <djules_75 > > > Public opinion has affected me >Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:18:33 -0000 > >Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia, >peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper' >food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my >blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think >I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too >hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to >myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and >to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters, >because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. _______________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 I like your honesty Jules and I'm glad you could share this with us. Although this personally wouldn't happen to me - the longer I've been vegan the stronger and more determined I've become - I can understand your reasons. I hope you find the answers to the questions you're asking yourself and become a vegan again soon. Once you've read more about animal cruelty and just how bad animal meats and products are for you (and how much cholesterol is in eggs as well!!!) you'll soon be glad that you're not a vegetarian anymore! There's no pressure though. Just don't let people bully you into not being a vegan. If that was the case I guess a lot of us on this list wouldn't be vegans anymore either! I'm glad that I have a lot of knowledge which I've built up on animal issues and if anyone starts criticising me for being a vegan it all comes pouring out and they wish they hadn't mention it! Knowledge is power! Knowledge also saves animals lives! Good luck. Janey x - " djules_75 " <djules_75 Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:18 AM Public opinion has affected me > Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia, > peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper' > food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my > blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think > I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too > hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to > myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and > to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters, > because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. I'm staying > vegetarian for a while, until I know what is wrong with me, in the > meantime I'm going to read a few more books on nutrition and learn a > few recipes, and maybe think about getting a tatoo for when I go > vegan again, I don't know. I'm just letting you know because I'm > staying on this list, and the questionnaire when one signs up asks > one whether one is vegan or not. > > Jules > > > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 Your memory has let you down again I see! I don't remember anyone calling you a sad bastard when you lapsed due to peer pressure, or drunkiness or whatever. Janey x - " slg edith " <slgedith Thursday, April 18, 2002 2:02 PM Re: Public opinion has affected me > Sad bastard. > > > > " djules_75 " <djules_75 > > > > > > Public opinion has affected me > >Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:18:33 -0000 > > > >Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia, > >peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper' > >food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my > >blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think > >I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too > >hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to > >myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and > >to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters, > >because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. > > > _______________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 I agree Lesley. I get even stronger if people give me any pressure. But nothing or nobody would make me eat meat or dairy. Janey x - " Lesley Dove " <Lesley Thursday, April 18, 2002 2:31 PM RE: Public opinion has affected me > That's a little harsh from you, since you ate actual dead animal bits when > you got pissed once, after being vegan. I am pretty sad and appalled that > Jules would bow to peer pressure, but so did you so that one time with your > animal eating friends, so maybe you should understand him! > Being stubborn has its advantages, NO WAY would I have bowed to the peer > pressure of meat-eating friends even when I did mix with such people. In > fact any pressure from them to conform just made me even more determined to > stay vegan, because I believed it was right! > > Lesley > > > > slg edith [slgedith] > 18 April 2002 14:02 > > Re: Public opinion has affected me > > > Sad bastard. > > > > " djules_75 " <djules_75 > > > > > > Public opinion has affected me > >Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:18:33 -0000 > > > >Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia, > >peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper' > >food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my > >blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think > >I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too > >hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to > >myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and > >to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat-eaters, > >because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. > > > _______________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 Yes, I do this! My colleague always eats ham sandwiches and I always call them dead pig sandwiches. I now have the Vegan Society membership renewal postcard on my office wall - the one with the poor calf with the slogan *Live A Cruelty Free Life - Go Vegan!*. My colleague complained that the picture upset her (guilty conscience???!) and she wanted me to take it down, but I refused! I get upset when she eats dead pig sandwiches so I guess we're quits. Anyway, lots of my colleagues see my Vegan Society postcard so that's good! Also my colleague used to put her sandwich wrappers in the bin by my desk. I told her the other day that if her sandwiches were dead pig then she was to put her wrapper in someone else's bin. It worked too! Janey x > the fact that meat is called meat makes it even further from people's minds > what it actually is .... thus i am often calling pork ... dead pig ... and > beef is dead cow ... mincemeat or burgers are basically mashed up cows .... Oliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 I don't understand this Michael? Why say *tell that to a fruitarian*??? Fruitarians eat greens too you know, but their diet is mainly made up of fruits. Janey x > > >at least vegetables can be called vegetables, we're not guilty... (that's a > >good reply... to killing plants) > > Tell that to a fruitarian. > > Still you're right about t'other stuff. > > Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 I'm not *sad* and *appalled*. Its all part of learning and perhaps this will help Jules to understand veganism and how to deal with others a bit more now. Janey x <snipped> < I am pretty sad and appalled that > Jules would bow to peer pressure, > > Lesley > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 Don't listen to him Jules!!! Edith proved that you can be a vegan and then go out and eat meat, but pctalking likes her and I'm sure he still considers her a vegan! Or maybe he doesn't consider her a vegan. Who cares?! I'm sure you'll find your feet eventually and become a vegan again. Nobody's perfect. Glad you could share it with us. Janey x > Don't worry Jules...you just ain't vegan yet...thats it...people who > relapse never got the point in the first place. I never knew any > vegans at all when I became vegan. I just got the point, bought the > animal free shopper, and then took it from there. > > Maybe one day, when you are big enough to reason and make your own > choices, you'll realise what a silly boy you've been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2002 Report Share Posted April 19, 2002 >I like your honesty Jules and I'm glad you could share this with us. Quite. People should be able to feel free to admit things like that here, this is not some kind of vegan police state but meant to be a supportive group (ha ha?). People stop being vegan, or have lapses, for various reasons and it would be nice if they could feel they could come here for help. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2002 Report Share Posted April 19, 2002 I don't understand how anyone can lapse so easily, just because of a load of idiots in their real life, when they know that it is most likely only a matter of time before they will find some vegan (or at least vegetarians who are supportive of veganism) real-life friends, and meanwhile there is the online vegan community, which is certainly better than nothing. It's not as if it is hard for single childless people like Jules to find ways to meet up with other real-life vegans, to consider as his real peers. I stay vegan despite it isolating me from other mums around here, so no peer group for me. I'd rather not have a peer group than have one that tries to destroy my veganism (not that they would succeed!). Even when I was in nurse training, long before I was a mum, I was a bit of a loner in my training group, didn't mix with them much or consider them my peers, but preferred in my own time to get involved in the AR group in Reading and London Vegans and Young Vegetarians. I was always off to London or Reading (not too difficult on the train from Bracknell, where I lived at the time). I did recently go a couple of times to a local mums and toddlers group with Lucy, it was OK, but haven't met any other vegans or vegetarians there. Anyway I will probably concentrate more on making friends once we have moved (Ashford/Staines/Feltham area). Pretty much given up on Harrow. I hate not having many friends because of my beliefs, and because the responsibility of the kids prevents me from getting out to groups the way I did before, so I am longing for the freedom to join veg/AR groups and be more involved in the whole scene again once the kids are older. There is very likely much more opportunity for vegan/veggie students like Jules to find like-minded peers than there is for vegan mums like me (all the other veg families who are really keen to do things live so far away so we rarely meet up), so he should think himself lucky! Sorry feeling a bit more isolated and depressed than usual as I have had one or other of the kids off school with conjunctivitis all week. Can't go out much as it is quite contagious, although they seem quite untroubled by it really, and it looks worse than it feels for them. My recommendation to Jules would be to surround himself by like-minded friends as much as he can in his free time, should be easy for a young person with no family responsibilities. If he wants help, he could start by taking this advice on board! Once he does this, the toxic influence of his college relationships will mean less to him. Lesley Mavreela [nec.lists] 19 April 2002 09:49 Re: Public opinion has affected me >I like your honesty Jules and I'm glad you could share this with us. Quite. People should be able to feel free to admit things like that here, this is not some kind of vegan police state but meant to be a supportive group (ha ha?). People stop being vegan, or have lapses, for various reasons and it would be nice if they could feel they could come here for help. Michael ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2002 Report Share Posted April 19, 2002 >I don't understand how anyone can lapse so easily... Damn, this is going to sound nasty but isn't meant that way... Lesley, there is a lot you don't understand. I mean such as my attitude to life, or those who do not think abortion bad, or those who do not feel they should cut off access with non-vegans etc. In this case I don't see how anyone can be truly committed to being a vegan and lapse in such a way either, but I don't think we can condemn Jules for it. Like with everyone there is more to him than just being a vegan and so there are any number of reasons that could have lead to what he did. Maybe it will make him come to realize something about himself that means he would never do anything like it again, and wouldn't that be a good thing? It's all too easy to condemn people for not acting in the same way that we would, but people learn from their mistakes. If we start condemning people who slip up then we are more likely to push them away because they'd up feeling as alienated from the vegan community as they feel from the general social one. >meanwhile there is the >online vegan community, which is certainly better than nothing. The difference between knowing people in the real world and online is vast, and you really can't compare the two. An online community is something but it can't even began to compensate for the lack of something more real. >It's not as if it is hard for single childless people like Jules to find >ways to meet up with other real-life vegans, to consider as his real peers. This is the point I was making earlier, that being a vegan isn't everything to a person. Should my peers be people who are also vegan, share my sexuality, both? Both are important to who I am, and shape my outlook on everything. Include all the other things that are essential to being 'me' and it would be very unlikely that there would be many people who could qualify as my peers, never mind the chance to come across them. >I'd rather not have a peer group than have one that tries to >destroy my veganism (not that they would succeed!). Ditto. >There is very likely much more opportunity for vegan/veggie students like >Jules to find like-minded peers... so he should think himself lucky! Only lucky if that's what he wants. That said the idea that there are student societies for everything, and that there are lots of vegans is somewhat a myth based on my experience. I'm not saying there aren't any but you only really get to come across extremists and not everyone shares the same active political/ecological/AR position. And if you don't you are likely to be made to feel a lot worse about yourself by them than you are by those who don't understand veganism. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2002 Report Share Posted April 19, 2002 Jules doesn't sound like he's old enough to be able to shrug off pressure from others, especially when some of that pressure is coming from someone older and who he has been led to believe is wiser. I know that in the early days of my veganism, I had a few lapses too - cheese sandwiches and yoghurts (but not together, coz that'd be wierd.) Maybe he'll come to realise, like me, that beliefs are worth having. When I get a cold, despite a colleague blaming it on the lack of meat in my diet, I know that I'm no more unhealthy than I was all those years ago when (I can hardly bear to write this!!!) I ate meat. I'm actually better off being vegan, especially as I have an intolerance to milk which causes severe stomach cramps (how long have we been told we should drink more milk?) Jules shouldn't listen to other people, he should live his life the way he wants to live it. If he decides veganism isn't for him regardless of what other people say, then that's his decision, but he mustn't let others make that decision for him. Chris x , " djules_75 " <djules_75> wrote: > Well I just ate a fried chicken's egg today, because of paranoia, > peer pressure, my physics teacher telling me I should eat 'proper' > food, I also read from two sources that according to scientists my > blood group (0) means I should be eating mainly meat + dairy. I think > I've been getting a bit religious about veganism recently, and too > hung up about superstition, I wanted to eat the egg to prove to > myself that I still have the choice, and to see what it was like, and > to throw off any hatred that I still keep inside against meat- eaters, > because I sometimes find it very hard to live with them. I'm staying > vegetarian for a while, until I know what is wrong with me, in the > meantime I'm going to read a few more books on nutrition and learn a > few recipes, and maybe think about getting a tatoo for when I go > vegan again, I don't know. I'm just letting you know because I'm > staying on this list, and the questionnaire when one signs up asks > one whether one is vegan or not. > > Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2002 Report Share Posted April 19, 2002 , " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote: > > Just because he is a teacher and just because the animal product eaters are > the majority, doesn't mean they are right. He had no right to tell you that > vegan food is not proper food, that is offensive and I would be most likely > to complain about him pushing his views onto me if I were you! To be fair to my physics teacher, I think he was genuinely worried about me. I'd turned up to the first physics lesson completrely drugged out of my head, and had to hide it because its illegal, he thought it was because of my food, and this was a severe blow to me because the whole class was listening and I was giving veganism a bad name. Plenty of > people would complain to the head if a teacher was pushing veganism at the > pupils after all, so likewise we should complain if animal-eating is pushed > at us by someone in a position of authority, such as a teacher. Play them at > their own game and don't give in. > Look at some pictures of how the chickens suffer if you need a reminder of > why you went vegan. > The only thing that is wrong with you is a lack of vegan peer group in your > real life, I reckon. Yeah you're right. I'm going to try harder to find some real friends, and stop trying to escape from everything. > All you have proved is that they cannot take you and your ethics seriously > from now on, and you surely don't want that. Yeah, sad to say it, but that has already happened. You will end up hating the > animal eaters even more because you will blame them for stopping you being > true to yourself. I'm not blaming them, I am going to stop hating them, hate is getting me nowhere. Take full responsibility for your lapse. You will get very > sick if you eat mainly animal products regardless of your blood group, even > many animal eaters eat mostly vegan food, if you actually look at what they > eat, the meat and dairy only make up a small part, otherwise they get ill. I don't know about that... > Even experts advocating meat and dairy do not generally advocate it in large > amounts these days. > > Lesley > > Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2002 Report Share Posted April 19, 2002 , " slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote: > Sad bastard. Yeah. I'm depressed and my parents weren't married when I was born. This makes me a sad bastard. Do you deny that you're an abusive, uncompassionate, unsympathetic vegan? I think you are, you're no less of a hypocrite than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2002 Report Share Posted April 19, 2002 , " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote: > That's a little harsh from you, since you ate actual dead animal bits when > you got pissed once, after being vegan. I am pretty sad and appalled that > Jules would bow to peer pressure, It wasn't just peer pressure, it was lots of other things. Mainly my problem was that I was getting too religious about my veganism, causing me to hate everyone who wasn't vegan, it was turnoing me into a prime time dickhead, I was losing hair, and getting fanatical and scared of meat-eaters. Peer pressure was the wrong thing to call it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.