Guest guest Posted May 27, 2002 Report Share Posted May 27, 2002 Hiya Ian Asking raw vegans *where do you get your B12 from* is like meat eaters asking veggies *where do you get your protein from*. The best answer to that is *what is protein?!*. That always makes them squirm, as most people ask that stupid question without even knowing what protein is. LOL! Anyway, I attach an excellent answer about B12 from Dr Robert Sniadach, DC. I hope this helps. Basically, as with all vitamins and minerals, cooking depletes them. You don't lose anything when eating raw, but you know that anyway! Here's his answer on B12:- "A common question regarding the living food diet is the issue of vitamin B12. This concern arises because we have been told that this vitamin is only found in animal products. Old myths die hard and unfortunately, this one has been passed around for so long, the concern of vitamin B12 deficiency is almost synonymous with vegetarianism. It ranks right up there with “Where do you get your protein? And where do you get your calcium?”. Vitamin B12, also known as cobalamin, is a water soluble vitamin and functions as a coenzyme in metabolism. It’s necessary for the growth of all cells, for DNA synthesis and for the absorption of other nutrients through the intestines. It is especially important for the nervous system. A vitamin B12 deficiency causes macrocytic anemia, and/or lesions of the nervous system.The only biologically useful type of B12 is made by bacteria. B12 from sea vegetables and other “green” foods (dulse, nori, blue-green algae, etc.) are not physiologically useful to the body. The B12 from these sources are called B12 analogs, meaning that the molecules are very similar to the B12 that we really need, but not exactly the same. What happens is that the cells of the body will allow these imposters to latch onto their surface, but then nothing actually happens because they are not shaped quite right. So we not only do not get the B12 we need, but now these imposters are blocking the very doorway where the real B12 can get in! Fortunately, we only need a tiny amount of B12, and the body stores it for quite a while, so it takes several years for deficiencies to develop. In a healthy intestine and colon, our bodies would actually make B12 from healthy bacteria. The problem is that nearly all of the B12 is made in the large intestine (colon), with very little, if any, made in our small intestine. And B12 is only absorbed in the small intestine, as far as we currently know. So this is another complication.You may ask, “So how did people get enough B12 way back when?” Vitamin B12 is normally found in the soil. Micro-organisms usually cling to the fruits and vegetables and make their way onto roots and into the plants before harvest. The B12 present in meat is due to the grass and other plant matter the animal ate, not something inherent to the animal itself.Humans originally picked and ate their food directly from nature. When this was so, they were also getting bits of dirt and soil and bugs and things along with their food. These contaminants carried plenty of B12-producing bacteria along with them. Since we only need a tiny, tiny amount of B12 each day (1 microgram), and since we can store lots of it in our liver, we easily got all we needed just from natural foods and the “contaminants” that were present with them. It should also be noted that vitamin B12 breaks down very quickly when heated, as do most nutrients, another reason to consume your food raw.There are other considerations. The fact is, not only a few vegans, but a large percentage of the meat-eating population have low levels of B12, or are actually deficient in it. The concern should not be whether the diet provides B12, but is the body able to absorb the nutrients that you consume?The raw food/healthy living community is pretty split on this issue of B12 supplementation. Some say supplementation is not needed, others say one should supplement. Studies seem to say that most people will do just fine and there’s no need to worry about it. However, if you have a history of intestinal problems or blood disorders, such as a tendency toward anemia, you may want to consider supplementing as “insurance.” If you choose to use supplements, look closely at the actual B12 ingredients. The one you want is called methylcobalamin. This type is absorbed much better than the commonly used cyanocobalamin. By far the first and best thing you can do if you are concerned about vitamin B12, or any other vitamin deficiency, is to eat a primarily raw diet consisting of raw fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds. When we consume food in accordance with the laws of nature, we remove the obstructions that keep our bodies from functioning optimally. Our bodies do not have to suffer disease and illness, nor do we need to worry that we are not eating the proper nutrients, nature has taken care of that for us. Dr Robert Sniadach, DCPresidentTransformation Institute" Janey x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2002 Report Share Posted May 27, 2002 Hiya Ian, It's all in Paula Radcliffe: *Marathan Vegan* (Superwoman, sigh! Like the way she does her hair and bobs her head.) about > " Janey " <janey > > > Rawfoodies & B12 / Dr Ian >Mon, 27 May 2002 09:31:15 +0100 > >Hiya Ian > >Asking raw vegans *where do you get your B12 from* is like meat eaters >asking veggies *where do you get your protein from*. The best answer to >that is *what is protein?!*. That always makes them squirm, as most people >ask that stupid question without even knowing what protein is. LOL! > >Anyway, I attach an excellent answer about B12 from Dr Robert Sniadach, DC. >I hope this helps. > >Basically, as with all vitamins and minerals, cooking depletes them. You >don't lose anything when eating raw, but you know that anyway! Here's his >answer on B12:- > > " A common question regarding the living food diet is the issue of vitamin >B12. This concern arises because we have been told that this vitamin is >only found in animal products. Old myths die hard and unfortunately, this >one has been passed around for so long, the concern of vitamin B12 >deficiency is almost synonymous with vegetarianism. It ranks right up there >with “Where do you get your protein? And where do you get your calcium?”. > >Vitamin B12, also known as cobalamin, is a water soluble vitamin and >functions as a coenzyme in metabolism. It’s necessary for the growth of all >cells, for DNA synthesis and for the absorption of other nutrients through >the intestines. It is especially important for the nervous system. A >vitamin B12 deficiency causes macrocytic anemia, and/or lesions of the >nervous system. >The only biologically useful type of B12 is made by bacteria. B12 from sea >vegetables and other “green” foods (dulse, nori, blue-green algae, etc.) >are not physiologically useful to the body. The B12 from these sources are >called B12 analogs, meaning that the molecules are very similar to the B12 >that we really need, but not exactly the same. What happens is that the >cells of the body will allow these imposters to latch onto their surface, >but then nothing actually happens because they are not shaped quite right. >So we not only do not get the B12 we need, but now these imposters are >blocking the very doorway where the real B12 can get in! > >Fortunately, we only need a tiny amount of B12, and the body stores it for >quite a while, so it takes several years for deficiencies to develop. In a >healthy intestine and colon, our bodies would actually make B12 from >healthy bacteria. The problem is that nearly all of the B12 is made in the >large intestine (colon), with very little, if any, made in our small >intestine. And B12 is only absorbed in the small intestine, as far as we >currently know. So this is another complication. >You may ask, “So how did people get enough B12 way back when?” Vitamin B12 >is normally found in the soil. Micro-organisms usually cling to the fruits >and vegetables and make their way onto roots and into the plants before >harvest. The B12 present in meat is due to the grass and other plant matter >the animal ate, not something inherent to the animal itself. >Humans originally picked and ate their food directly from nature. When this >was so, they were also getting bits of dirt and soil and bugs and things >along with their food. These contaminants carried plenty of B12-producing >bacteria along with them. > >Since we only need a tiny, tiny amount of B12 each day (1 microgram), and >since we can store lots of it in our liver, we easily got all we needed >just from natural foods and the “contaminants” that were present with them. > >It should also be noted that vitamin B12 breaks down very quickly when >heated, as do most nutrients, another reason to consume your food raw. >There are other considerations. The fact is, not only a few vegans, but a >large percentage of the meat-eating population have low levels of B12, or >are actually deficient in it. The concern should not be whether the diet >provides B12, but is the body able to absorb the nutrients that you >consume? >The raw food/healthy living community is pretty split on this issue of B12 >supplementation. Some say supplementation is not needed, others say one >should supplement. Studies seem to say that most people will do just fine >and there’s no need to worry about it. However, if you have a history of >intestinal problems or blood disorders, such as a tendency toward anemia, >you may want to consider supplementing as “insurance.” If you choose to use >supplements, look closely at the actual B12 ingredients. The one you want >is called methylcobalamin. This type is absorbed much better than the >commonly used cyanocobalamin. > >By far the first and best thing you can do if you are concerned about >vitamin B12, or any other vitamin deficiency, is to eat a primarily raw >diet consisting of raw fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds. When we consume >food in accordance with the laws of nature, we remove the obstructions that >keep our bodies from functioning optimally. Our bodies do not have to >suffer disease and illness, nor do we need to worry that we are not eating >the proper nutrients, nature has taken care of that for us. > >Dr Robert Sniadach, DC >President >Transformation Institute " > >Janey >x > _______________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Share Posted June 4, 2002 > Janey wrote: > > Hiya Ian > > Asking raw vegans *where do you get your B12 from* is like meat eaters > asking veggies *where do you get your protein from*. Unfortunately, there is much more evidence of protein in the veggie diet than there is of B12 in the raw food diet. > The best answer > to that is *what is protein?!*. That always makes them squirm, as > most people ask that stupid question without even knowing what protein > is. LOL! In the case of B12, a water-soluble vitamin whose role in methylation cycles makes it critical in cell division and repair. > Anyway, I attach an excellent answer about B12 from Dr Robert > Sniadach, DC. I hope this helps. > Basically, as with all vitamins and minerals, cooking depletes them. > You don't lose anything when eating raw, but you know that anyway! > Here's his answer on B12:- Well, that's true. Not that there's much B12 there to deplete. Some processed foods are fortified with B12, of course. > " A common question regarding the living food diet is the issue of > vitamin B12. This concern arises because we have been told that this > vitamin is only found in animal products. Old myths die hard and > unfortunately, this one has been passed around for so long, the > concern of vitamin B12 deficiency is almost synonymous with > vegetarianism. It ranks right up there with “Where do you get your > protein? And where do you get your calcium?”. > > Vitamin B12, also known as cobalamin, is a water soluble vitamin and > functions as a coenzyme in metabolism. It’s necessary for the growth > of all cells, for DNA synthesis and for the absorption of other > nutrients through the intestines. It is especially important for the > nervous system. A vitamin B12 deficiency causes macrocytic anemia, > and/or lesions of the nervous system. This is all good, informative stuff. > The only biologically useful type of B12 is made by bacteria. B12 from > sea vegetables and other “green” foods (dulse, nori, blue-green algae, > etc.) are not physiologically useful to the body. The B12 from these > sources are called B12 analogs, meaning that the molecules are very > similar to the B12 that we really need, but not exactly the same. What > happens is that the cells of the body will allow these imposters to > latch onto their surface, but then nothing actually happens because > they are not shaped quite right. So we not only do not get the B12 we > need, but now these imposters are blocking the very doorway where the > real B12 can get in! As is this. > Fortunately, we only need a tiny amount of B12, and the body stores it > for quite a while, so it takes several years for deficiencies to > develop. In a healthy intestine and colon, our bodies would actually > make B12 from healthy bacteria. The problem is that nearly all of the > B12 is made in the large intestine (colon), with very little, if any, > made in our small intestine. And B12 is only absorbed in the small > intestine, as far as we currently know. So this is another > complication. Yup. There is compelling evidence that well before we develop deficiency symptoms, depleted B12 causes increased risks of heart disease, stroke, and pregnancy complications. > You may ask, “So how did people get enough B12 way back when?” They weren't vegan. > Vitamin > B12 is normally found in the soil. Micro-organisms usually cling to > the fruits and vegetables and make their way onto roots and into the > plants before harvest. The B12 present in meat is due to the grass and > other plant matter the animal ate, not something inherent to the > animal itself. This claim is simply not true. Many animals have a separate stomach in which B12-producing bacteria (amongst other things) live. If you munch your way through a patch of clover and accidently eat an ant, most of the B12 will be in the ant. > Humans originally picked and ate their food directly from nature. When > this was so, they were also getting bits of dirt and soil and bugs and > things along with their food. These contaminants carried plenty of > B12-producing bacteria along with them. Mainly the bugs, though. That's not very vegan. > Since we only need a tiny, tiny amount of B12 each day (1 microgram), > and since we can store lots of it in our liver, we easily got all we > needed just from natural foods and the “contaminants” that were > present with them. Actually, 1.5 micrograms. And we need to eat rather more than that to absorb it. > It should also be noted that vitamin B12 breaks down very quickly when > heated, as do most nutrients, another reason to consume your food raw. > There are other considerations. The fact is, not only a few vegans, > but a large percentage of the meat-eating population have low levels > of B12, or are actually deficient in it. Actually, unless you're talking about health-conscious seventh day adventists, studies have shown far lower levels of B12 in vegans than in the population as a whole. More anecdotally, I can think of vegans of my acquaintance with deficiency symptoms. Dr. Steven Walsh was motivated to research B12 because every time he ran a vegan camp, he found that one of the campers had B12 deficiency symptoms. > The concern should not be > whether the diet provides B12, but is the body able to absorb the > nutrients that you consume? Whever someone says " the question is " , they are usually trying to divert attention. We need to look at both. > The raw food/healthy living community is pretty split on this issue of > B12 supplementation. Some say supplementation is not needed, others > say one should supplement. Studies seem to say that most people will > do just fine and there’s no need to worry about it. What studies? I'm aware of a couple of B12 studies in raw food communities, that resulted in the raw food communities taking B12 supplements. Janey, if I got the references for those studies, would it help convince you to take supplements? > However, if you > have a history of intestinal problems or blood disorders, such as a > tendency toward anemia, you may want to consider supplementing as > “insurance.” If you choose to use supplements, look closely at the > actual B12 ingredients. The one you want is called methylcobalamin. > This type is absorbed much better than the commonly used > cyanocobalamin. Chewing them helps, too. > By far the first and best thing you can do if you are concerned about > vitamin B12, or any other vitamin deficiency, is to eat a primarily > raw diet consisting of raw fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds. By far the first and best thing you can do if you are concerned about your vitamin B12 level is, and I think that this is self-evident, buy some B12 and eat it. Fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds are very good for you in the round, but do not contain significant B12. > When we > consume food in accordance with the laws of nature, we remove the > obstructions that keep our bodies from functioning optimally. Our > bodies do not have to suffer disease and illness, nor do we need to > worry that we are not eating the proper nutrients, nature has taken > care of that for us. Unfortunately, disease and illness are part of nature. As is eating meat. It is lucky that the only species that can think through the ethical consequences of being omnivorous is in a position to choose to be vegan. > Dr Robert Sniadach, DC Does " DC " stand for " Doctor of Chiropracty " ? > President > Transformation Institute " > -- Ian McDonald http://www.mcdonald.me.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2002 Report Share Posted June 5, 2002 what about the sublingual B12 tablets you can get? (Solgar 1000mg) ... or the B12 mouth sprays? Ian McDonald [ian]By far the first and best thing you can do if you are concerned aboutyour vitamin B12 level is, and I think that this is self-evident, buysome B12 and eat it. Fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds are very goodfor you in the round, but do not contain significant B12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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