no you should not leave!

[Guest guest]

*frown*

 

I know there's a limit, and I see why a more flexible approach makes

some sense ... but it isn't veganism.

 

(Me? I accept that there are probably some animal products that are

okay, but the state of animal farming is such that it's much easier to

throw my hands up in horror and avoid the whole dreadful mess than to

try to find some genuinely sanctuary eggs. I'm not with Rat on this.)

 

For clarity, one should try to use words the way everyone else (who uses

them) uses them.

 

--

Ian McDonald

 

http://www.mcdonald.me.uk/

[Guest guest]

Dont be silly. I dont think you should leave. Call yourself whatever you want. You dont have to fit into a category; in fact the best people cant be! i used to feel exactly the same as you; was veggie, but would not buy calves' milk products, but ate free range eggs. Now its for my health too that I'm completely vegan, but I always was vegan in principle. I can even excuse Meat eaters if its out of weakness, ie. they agree with veganism but just cant resist their cravings. None of us are perfect, some of us have stronger wills that others. Meat eaters who outwordly condone it/promote it is another matter; they should all be shot! but anyway they're all dying of bad karma = BSE, cancer, heart disease etc!

Pandora

tw0big8oo8s wrote:

I've just read the Bee's and Honey section in the Vegan Soc. web site. That's sick. Going to look at Manuka honey now. See you all soon. Love GenevieveThere are many sweeteners that can be used instead of honey e.g.maple syrup concentrated fruit juices golden syrup molasses sugar other syrups (eg corn, date) malt extracts~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

[Guest guest]

 

how can excuse someone who KNOWS that eating meat is wrong, but continues to do so, yet be appalled by someone who doesn't think ti's wrong?

there are NO excuses!...........RAT................

Dont be silly. I dont think you should leave. Call yourself whatever you want. You dont have to fit into a category; in fact the best people cant be! i used to feel exactly the same as you; was veggie, but would not buy calves' milk products, but ate free range eggs. Now its for my health too that I'm completely vegan, but I always was vegan in principle. I can even excuse Meat eaters if its out of weakness, ie. they agree with veganism but just cant resist their cravings. None of us are perfect, some of us have stronger wills that others. Meat eaters who outwordly condone it/promote it is another matter; they should all be shot! but anyway they're all dying of bad karma = BSE, cancer, heart disease etc! Pandora tw0big8oo8s wrote: I've just read the Bee's and Honey section in the Vegan Soc. web site. That's sick. Going to look at Manuka honey now. See you all soon. Love GenevieveThere are many sweeteners that can be used instead of honey e.g.maple syrup concentrated fruit juices golden syrup molasses sugar other syrups (eg corn, date) malt extracts~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

[Guest guest]

>Call yourself whatever you want. You dont have to fit into a category;

 

" Can be I giant Iranian lesbian then?

 

Seriously though, for some being vegan is a something-to-be, a label of

something with which they align themselves to. And to those I would

disagree because it builds up images of veganism that I myself do not agree

with, and so in that sense, yes, definitely, be yourself and don't try to

fit into a category though. But to me " vegan " is simply a description of

someone who, for whatever reason, does not use animal

products. Period. Full stop.

 

Don't confuse cultural labels with descriptions.

 

There are some who call themselves vegetarian but eat fish and

chicken. Would we really accept they are vegetarians? If we bought a

sandwich which said " suitable for vegetarians " and discovered it contained

chicken would we think " that's not vegetarian " , or would we be happy to

simply accept that the makers were just not fitting into a particular category?

 

" Vegan " needs to be a word which applies to the lowest common denominator

but retain it's core meaning. If someone says you are not a vegan because

of a political belief then feel free to ignore them because you really

don't have to fit in. But if you use animal products then you cannot be a

vegan any more than I can be a giant Iranian lesbian. "

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

I think that if meat eaters really knew all the facts

then (unless they are heartless) they would be veg*n.

I would like to think that it is only the people

ignorant to the suffering that eat meat & in time (and

a perfect world) they could be educated. Obviously

there are the evil hunter types, not quite sure what

to do with them!! (have a few ideas though lol! cough

'battery cages' cough cough!)

 

I couldn't condone someone with vegan beliefs who

still ate meat for selfish reasons. That is far worse

than eating meat because you know no better.

 

Genevieve - you are on the right track, doing as much

as you can for the animals & that's all anyone can do.

If you can look into it & find a way to eat eggs and

honey that doesn't harm the animals then that is cool.

There is no way we can all agree with each other all

the time but you are still one of the good guys!

--- " k@ " <kittyveg wrote: >

> how can excuse someone who KNOWS that eating meat

> is wrong, but continues

> to do so, yet be appalled by someone who doesn't

> think ti's wrong?

> there are NO

> excuses!...........RAT................

>

>

> Dont be silly. I dont think you should leave. Call

> yourself whatever you

> want. You dont have to fit into a category; in fact

> the best people cant be!

> i used to feel exactly the same as you; was veggie,

> but would not buy

> calves' milk products, but ate free range eggs. Now

> its for my health too

> that I'm completely vegan, but I always was vegan in

> principle. I can even

> excuse Meat eaters if its out of weakness, ie. they

> agree with veganism but

> just cant resist their cravings. None of us are

> perfect, some of us have

> stronger wills that others. Meat eaters who

> outwordly condone it/promote it

> is another matter; they should all be shot! but

> anyway they're all dying of

> bad karma = BSE, cancer, heart disease etc!

>

> Pandora

>

> tw0big8oo8s wrote:

>

> I've just read the Bee's and Honey section in

> the Vegan Soc. web

> site. That's sick. Going to look at Manuka honey

> now. See you all

> soon. Love Genevieve

>

> There are many sweeteners that can be used

> instead of honey e.g.

>

> maple syrup

> concentrated fruit juices

> golden syrup

> molasses

> sugar

> other syrups (eg corn, date)

> malt extracts

>

>

> ~~ info

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Please remember that the above is only the

> opinion of the author,

> there may be another side to the story you have

> not heard.

>

>

---------------------------

> Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was

> it snipped?

>

>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>

> Un: send a blank message to

> -

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 08:49:00 +0100 (BST), Victoria Froment

<veganvicky wrote:

 

>I think that if meat eaters really knew all the facts

>then (unless they are heartless) they would be veg*n.

 

I'm sure the vast majority of us are surrounded by carnivores and, in

my experience, the basic truth of the matter is that they either

simply don't want to know the facts, or they do know some (or even

many) of them but their love of eating meat outweighs any qualms they

might have about doing so. Heartless? I think so.

 

Ultimately, though, what can you realistically do without risking

falling out big time with family and friends?

 

Chris W

[Guest guest]

Just keep making comments and offer to cook for them and hope some compassion rubs off

 

I'm sure the vast majority of us are surrounded by carnivores and, inmy experience, the basic truth of the matter is that they eithersimply don't want to know the facts, or they do know some (or evenmany) of them but their love of eating meat outweighs any qualms theymight have about doing so. Heartless? I think so. Ultimately, though, what can you realistically do without riskingfalling out big time with family and friends?Chris W~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to -

[Guest guest]

I suppose its a case of out of sight out of mind. Once

that link was made (for me) between what was on my

plate & the cute little animals in the fields I

couldn't eat it. If there wasn't government propaganda

about how much we need meat, then people could make

their own informed decisions much easier! (don't mind

me - just rambling!)

 

Since becoming vegan my boyfriend has made me agree to

take vitamins so that he doesn't have to worry about

my premature death or something!! That comes from a

person who will only eat limited veggies (carrots,

sweetcorn and potatoes to be exact). When I cook for

him I have to hide green veg in there like you would a

child!!

 

Cooking for them definitely helps. Also sharing your

swedish glace too! I think if I could just inform him

about it he may think about going vegatarian at least.

The only problem is that I dislike getting on my soap

box as I don't want people to label me as a fanatic &

therefore disregard everything I say anyway. I find

(with friends and loved ones anyway) you have to wait

for them to ask about it & carefully spoon feed them

the info! I definitely hope the compassion rubs off

soon-ish!!

 

(apologies for my ramblings!)

 

--- Angie Wright <angiewright wrote: >

Just keep making comments and offer to cook for them

> and hope some

> compassion rubs off

>

> Angie

>

> I'm sure the vast majority of us are surrounded by

> carnivores and, in

> my experience, the basic truth of the matter is that

> they either

> simply don't want to know the facts, or they do know

> some (or even

> many) of them but their love of eating meat

> outweighs any qualms they

> might have about doing so. Heartless? I think so.

>

> Ultimately, though, what can you realistically do

> without risking

> falling out big time with family and friends?

>

> Chris W

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Don't appologise Ypur comments are as valid as anyone else's

 

I think your B/F is the one who needs to take vitamin tablets

 

 

Victoria Froment [veganvicky] 27 August 2002 10:40 Subject: RE: no you should not leave!Since becoming vegan my boyfriend has made me agree totake vitamins so that he doesn't have to worry aboutmy premature death or something!! That comes from aperson who will only eat limited veggies (carrots,sweetcorn and potatoes to be exact). When I cook forhim I have to hide green veg in there like you would achild!!The only problem is that I dislike getting on my soapbox as I don't want people to label me as a fanatic & therefore disregard everything I say anyway. I find(with friends and loved ones anyway) you have to waitfor them to ask about it & carefully spoon feed themthe info! I definitely hope the compassion rubs offsoon-ish!!(apologies for my ramblings!)

 

 

---

 

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002

[Guest guest]

My sentiments exactly!!

--- Angie Wright <angiewright wrote: >

Don't appologise Ypur comments are as valid as

> anyone else's

>

> I think your B/F is the one who needs to take

> vitamin tablets

>

> Angie

>

>

> Victoria Froment

> [veganvicky]

> 27 August 2002 10:40

>

> RE: no you should not leave!

>

>

> Since becoming vegan my boyfriend has made me agree

> to

> take vitamins so that he doesn't have to worry about

> my premature death or something!! That comes from a

> person who will only eat limited veggies (carrots,

> sweetcorn and potatoes to be exact). When I cook for

> him I have to hide green veg in there like you would

> a

> child!!

>

> The only problem is that I dislike getting on my

> soap

> box as I don't want people to label me as a fanatic

> &

> therefore disregard everything I say anyway. I find

> (with friends and loved ones anyway) you have to

> wait

> for them to ask about it & carefully spoon feed them

> the info! I definitely hope the compassion rubs off

> soon-ish!!

>

> (apologies for my ramblings!)

---

>

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system

> (http://www.grisoft.com).

> Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release

> 05/06/2002

>

>

 

 

 

Everything you'll ever need on one web page

from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts

http://uk.my.

[Guest guest]

, Chris W <chrisw@g...> wrote:

 

 

> Ultimately, though, what can you realistically do without risking

> falling out big time with family and friends?

>

 

My warmth for members of my family is very much affected by their

meat eating. I find it easier to accept with people outside the

genetic family. But I am not really a people person.

 

Andrew

[Guest guest]

I agree with you there. I find it hard to understand

how people that I love are:

a) are happy to remain a part of such a foul and cruel

industry.

b) blissfully unaware that meat, eggs and dairy are

NOT in fact healthy and they could be damaging their

health.

and c) they are often the people who criticise my

decision to be vegan when I rarely criticise their

diet.

 

With strangers it isn't so close to home. I hate the

way that loved ones are the first to criticise when

they should be the supportive ones!

 

--- virtuallyvegan <virtuallyvegan

wrote:

 

My warmth for members of my family is very much

affected by their meat eating. I find it easier to

accept with people outside the genetic family. But I

am not really a people person.

 

Andrew

 

 

 

Everything you'll ever need on one web page

from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts

http://uk.my.

[Guest guest]

>Since becoming vegan my boyfriend has made me agree to

>take vitamins so that he doesn't have to worry about

>my premature death or something!!

 

That's rather offensive, I do hope you force him to eat healthly because

the artery clogging effects of certain meats are very well known, I don't

want you to have to deal with the premature death of someone you love, and

I'm sure anyone who loves you wouldn't want you to go through that either.

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

He's not trying to be offensive, he has been bought up

believing the myth that you need meat/dairy etc to

survive (like most people). I just laugh it off. All I

can do is try to turn his way of thinking around - it

seems to be working a little. When I cook for him he

eats healthily, but that isn't all the time.

 

It does worry me. The next time he worries about my

diet I'll tell him why I worry about his! I may also

get some fact sheets ready from Viva or the Vegan

Society too. It is difficult when they (well, all of

us) have been brainwashed with false information all

their lives!

--- Mavreela <nec.lists wrote:

<HR>

<html><body>

 

 

<tt>

<BR>

& gt;Since becoming vegan my boyfriend has made me

agree to<BR>

& gt;take vitamins so that he doesn't have to worry

about<BR>

& gt;my premature death or something!!<BR>

<BR>

That's rather offensive, I do hope you force him to

eat healthly because <BR>

the artery clogging effects of certain meats are very

well known, I don't <BR>

want you to have to deal with the premature death of

someone you love, and <BR>

I'm sure anyone who loves you wouldn't want you to go

through that either.<BR>

<BR>

Michael<BR>

<BR>

</tt>

 

 

<br>

<tt>

~~ info

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>

Please remember that the above is only the opinion of

the author, <BR>

there may be another side to the story you have not

heard.<BR>

---------------------------<BR>

Was this message Off Topic? & nbsp; Did you know? & nbsp;

Was it snipped?<BR>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

<BR>

Guidelines: visit & lt;site temporarily offline & gt;<BR>

Un: send a blank message to

- </tt>

<br>

 

<br>

<tt>

[Guest guest]

, " virtuallyvegan " <virtuallyvegan> wrote:

>

> My warmth for members of my family is very much affected by their

> meat eating. I find it easier to accept with people outside the

> genetic family. But I am not really a people person.

>

> Andrew

 

 

 

Snap on all counts. I avoid the meateaters in my family and Steve's

(not always easy) as far as possible, because I simply don't enjoy

being with people with such low moral standards. Sounds very

condescending, I know, but I wonder how comfortable they would be

sharing a meal with cannibals, even if the cannibals generously

cooked them a non-human dish.

 

There are so few veggies in my life that I prefer to avoid human

company as far as possible. (How I cope with doing stalls I will

never know)

 

Cathy

[Guest guest]

I feel the same and It has got stronger the longer I am vegan I can put it to the back of my mind when doing stalls ,especially if the topic is not the

food industry. But luckily I never have to eat around animal eaters and never do so (but then I know many vegans (and some veggies possibly )

 

It is so isolating being an only vegan

 

 

cathyjupp [cj] 31 August 2002 08:26 Subject: Re: no you should not leave!Snap on all counts. I avoid the meateaters in my family and Steve's (not always easy) as far as possible, because I simply don't enjoy being with people with such low moral standards. Sounds very condescending, I know, but I wonder how comfortable they would be sharing a meal with cannibals, even if the cannibals generously cooked them a non-human dish.There are so few veggies in my life that I prefer to avoid human company as far as possible. (How I cope with doing stalls I will never know)Cathy

 

 

---

 

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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[Guest guest]

, " Angie Wright " <angiewright@n...> wrote:

>

> It is so isolating being an only vegan

>

> Angie

 

The (mildly) worrying part is that I actually don't much care

anymore. I prefer isolation. I shall turn into a mad old woman any

day now.

Cathy

 

ps Anyone going to the anti-viviseciton march in London next week? If

so, you do know that it now starts from the BBC end, right?

pps - Viv - where shall we meet? I have a small surprise for you, so

you'd better still be going.

[Guest guest]

I shall turn into a mad old woman any day now.

--Cathy

 

Moooooooooooooo!!!

 

Have you read my story yet, COWWWWWWWW!

 

Why not???

 

Edith

--back to the last day of summer party

 

_______________

Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Shall ?

 

> It is so isolating being an only vegan > > The (mildly) worrying part is that I actually don't much care anymore. I prefer isolation. I shall turn into a mad old woman any day now.Cathy

 

 

---

 

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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[Guest guest]

Too late - you are already!

Left yourself wide open to that one...

And seems the only surprises I get these days are small ones ;-)

 

 

cathyjupp [cj]Saturday, August 31, 2002 8:51 PM Subject: Re: no you should not leave!Cathyps Anyone going to the anti-viviseciton march in London next week? If so, you do know that it now starts from the BBC end, right?pps - Viv - where shall we meet? I have a small surprise for you, so you'd better still be going.

[Guest guest]

I don't think he's being offensive at all,

As long as he's not trying to stop you from going your own way, that

means he's already trying to be supportive. Furthermore, only people

who really care about will say things like that...

I think mutual understanding is more important than trying to

challenge each others ideas...

My friends are mostly meat-eaters, but doesn't mean they're brutal

because they also hate to kill animals themselves...but it's just

unfortunate that so many people are used to the taste of meat and

also seeing so many meat on menu that they are used to the 'sight' of

meat and think they just have to accept it. They also love eating

vegetables and accept me as a vegetarian...I think mutual

understanding is more important, for me, because I can't bear

isolation from loved ones and friends!!

 

To take both sides equally, sure people who eat a chiefly meat-based

diet are un-healthy, but aren't vegans also have to be careful about

calcium, iron and B12, etc too? Sure you can get them via veggie

based diet, but just need to be able to eat a good variety of stuff!!

 

 

 

 

 

, Victoria Froment <veganvicky> wrote:

> He's not trying to be offensive, he has been bought up

> believing the myth that you need meat/dairy etc to

> survive (like most people). I just laugh it off. All I

> can do is try to turn his way of thinking around - it

> seems to be working a little. When I cook for him he

> eats healthily, but that isn't all the time.

>

> It does worry me. The next time he worries about my

> diet I'll tell him why I worry about his! I may also

> get some fact sheets ready from Viva or the Vegan

> Society too. It is difficult when they (well, all of

> us) have been brainwashed with false information all

> their lives!

> --- Mavreela <nec.lists@m...> wrote:

> <HR>

> <html><body>

>

>

> <tt>

> <BR>

> & gt;Since becoming vegan my boyfriend has made me

> agree to<BR>

> & gt;take vitamins so that he doesn't have to worry

> about<BR>

> & gt;my premature death or something!!<BR>

> <BR>

> That's rather offensive, I do hope you force him to

> eat healthly because <BR>

> the artery clogging effects of certain meats are very

> well known, I don't <BR>

> want you to have to deal with the premature death of

> someone you love, and <BR>

> I'm sure anyone who loves you wouldn't want you to go

> through that either.<BR>

> <BR>

> Michael<BR>

> <BR>

> </tt>

>

>

> <br>

> <tt>

> ~~ info

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>

> Please remember that the above is only the opinion of

> the author, <BR>

> there may be another side to the story you have not

> heard.<BR>

> ---------------------------<BR>

> Was this message Off Topic? & nbsp; Did you know? & nbsp;

> Was it snipped?<BR>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> <BR>

> Guidelines: visit & lt;site temporarily offline & gt;<BR>

> Un: send a blank message to

> -</tt>

> <br>

>

> <br>

> <tt>

[Guest guest]

, " aurora62581 " <cyfis@h...> wrote:

 

 

> To take both sides equally, sure people who eat a chiefly meat-

based

> diet are un-healthy, but aren't vegans also have to be careful

about

> calcium, iron and B12, etc too? Sure you can get them via veggie

> based diet, but just need to be able to eat a good variety of

stuff!!

>

 

 

We have been well-indoctrinated by the meat and dairy industries to

believe that it is we eschew these " food " groups who need to be

careful about our diet. The truth (to the best of my belief,

following much reading of the subject) is that we who follow a plant-

based diet need to worry *LESS* about such things than those who

believe what the financially-motivated meat and milk marketing

associations tell them. I'm sure that the man in question is sincere

in his concern - just misled. I have a friend who has been vegan for

over twenty years. She is fine and healthy. I have many

acquaintances who are omnivorouas and *FAR* from being either. To

me, health is a bonus. My concern is for the animals and if I were

to discover that veganism was unhealthy I would stil pursue it. But

for those who are motivated by concerns for fellow-humans - they need

to be advocating a vegan diet, for the sake of those they love.

Cathy

[Guest guest]

There is no problem with calcium and iron Veg produce are rich in them . The enemy just like to frighten us because they are sad individuals with nothing better to do or are arrogant to think they know more than those who have been veggie for years

 

I was told I'd be dead on a vegan diet I'm still here 35 years later and having produced 4 life vegans and worked as a teacher for all 30 years

 

 

aurora62581 [cyfis] 01 September 2002 14:29 Subject: Re: no you should not leave!To take both sides equally, sure people who eat a chiefly meat-based diet are un-healthy, but aren't vegans also have to be careful about calcium, iron and B12, etc too? Sure you can get them via veggie based diet, but just need to be able to eat a good variety of stuff!!

 

 

---

 

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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[Guest guest]

Me too!

 

--- cathyjupp <cj wrote:

To me, health is a bonus. My concern is for the

animals and if I were to discover that veganism was

unhealthy I would stil pursue it.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

--- aurora62581 <cyfis wrote:

I don't think he's being offensive at all, As long as

he's not trying to stop you from going your own way,

that means he's already trying to be supportive.

Furthermore, only people who really care about will

say things like that... I think mutual understanding

is more important than trying to challenge each others

ideas...

 

- He is just worrying about me because he has been

misled all his life into thinking you need meat, eggs,

dairy to survive and be healthy. I think its sweet in

a way! If I argue about it he isn't going to listen. I

am working to make him understand & give him the info.

He still thinks the vitamins are a good idea though.

To be honest they can't hurt can they?

 

My friends are mostly meat-eaters, but doesn't mean

they're brutal because they also hate to kill animals

themselves...but it's just unfortunate that so many

people are used to the taste of meat and also seeing

so many meat on menu that they are used to the 'sight'

of meat and think they just have to accept it. They

also love eating vegetables and accept me as a

vegetarian...I think mutual understanding is more

important, for me, because I can't bear isolation from

loved ones and friends!!

 

- Most of my friends are meat-eaters too. I don't

think they are evil because to them it's " the norm " .

For them it is strange NOT to eat meat etc. They don't

challenge my choice & I don't challenge theirs. They

will have to make the choice for themselves or they

won't stick at it anyway. There isn't any point

pushing my views upon them at a cost of our friendship

if it isn't going to change their minds anyway. I

couldn't bear to be isolated either. :-)

 

 

 

Everything you'll ever need on one web page

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