Vegan parents, the battle for the AGM creche is on again

[Guest guest]

Were any of you planning on attending the Vegan Society AGM? We were

planning to and looking forward to the social afterwards, but now we

have a problem if both myself and my husband want to attend the AGM.

 

We had a vote on whether they should keep the AGM creche just a few

years ago, and the members (mostly non-parents) clearly and

overwhelmingly voted with us and against the council of the time,

that we should keep the creche to allow equal opportunities, so the

creche remained, but yet now they tell us there will be no creche

this year. We only missed one AGM recently and that was last year

just after the birth of my third child, otherwise I know that vegan

parents were very glad of the creche and did attend the AGM, we were

not the only ones using it.

Does the Vegan Society want to exclude parents from getting involved

because this is the perfect way to go about it?

 

I wonder how much of their revenue would be lost if all the families

who pay family membership in future protested against the loss of the

creche by either leaving the Society or just paid single membership

for one of them, since only one would be able to go and vote if they

had no childcare? I would have thought that the family membership

would cover the creche as a reasonable expense. What is family

membership for if not to cover extra expenses which are required to

help the Society make a little extra effort to include families?

 

I would urge Vegan Society members with children to go along to the

AGM with the children, even if they make a noise, in fact the noisier

the better, because that will make the point just how much the creche

is needed to make business run smoothly. If parents stay away because

of there being no creche, this is just allowing them to tell us that

our involvement is no longer important. As far as I am aware the vast

majority of council are non-parents and this would seem to normally

be the case because parents are too busy! The unfortunate consequence

is that the nuclear family is very poorly represented within the

Vegan Society.

 

I'm really shocked that they have done away with the creche as I

thought they were improving, what with the arrival of the new kids'

page in the magazine.

 

They fail to see that not everyone has an alternative childcare

arrangement available, so some of us have to miss out if there is no

creche. I don't think this is at all fair, because it is not as if we

have not tried hard to find childcare at various times, and it is not

our fault that none of our previous close friends from before we had

children turned out to be the type of people who would babysit for

us. Our family don't live near enough to do it unless it is at a time

when they are visiting. It must be even many times harder for many

single parents.

 

Lesley

[Guest guest]

>I would urge Vegan Society members with children to go along to the

>AGM with the children, even if they make a noise, in fact the noisier

>the better

--LD

 

I would like to say how much I disagree with everything Leslie says but I

can't.

 

BooooooooooooHooooooooooooooooooo!

 

--Slg

 

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[Guest guest]

Thanks, I think!

 

I'm just so sick of feeling that the vegan scene generally treats

parents as second class citizens, even when a vote has gone in our

favour it does not take long for council to forget the fact that the

members are generally happy to agree to extra support for vegan

parents to allow all to take part equally. I do not believe that of

the women on the council (who make these decisions) any of them are

actually mums, so they cannot empathise (you do see my point despite

not having kids, so these women have really no excuse and should

really try harder to imagine themselves in my position). I could be

wrong but I'm not aware of any mums on council and besides even if

some of them have kids, having a supportive extended family to help

is what makes all the difference for some parents.

 

There is actually a dad on the council, and one woman who was for a

few years a foster mum to older kids (which is rather different from

having completely dependent babies and toddlers).

 

Lesley

 

 

, " slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

> >I would urge Vegan Society members with children to go along to the

> >AGM with the children, even if they make a noise, in fact the

noisier

> >the better

> --LD

>

> I would like to say how much I disagree with everything Leslie says

but I

> can't.

>

> BooooooooooooHooooooooooooooooooo!

>

> --Slg

>

> _______________

> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

> http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

, " slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

 

> I would like to say how much I disagree with everything Leslie says

but I

> can't.

 

Why not?

 

xx

[Guest guest]

" slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

>I would like to say how much I disagree with everything Leslie says

>but I can't.

 

>>Why not?

 

 

Because, dear cleverthingies, either the Veg Soc should provide a creche so

EVERYONE can go to the AGM (if it matters) or everyone with kids should

bring them along and annoy the ass off those people who think mothers are

second class vegans!

 

Enough said.

 

Slg

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Don't forget fathers too! If it comes down to it, Paul will look

after the kids and I can go to occasional meetings and events on my

own, but why should one or other of us (not always me) ALWAYS be

forced to miss out just because we are parents? I believe that there

should be some legal right to a certain amount of childfree time for

parents together (not all of them have to take it of course if they

prefer not to, because I'm certainly not advocating enforced

separation of children and parents, but we are all individuals with

our own needs and if we need it fair enough). Parents don't get much

time off when the children are young and preschool age, and until

they are able to fend for themselves, there is still no time off at

weekends or evenings for both parents together (no time off at all

for some single parents, which must be intolerably stressful and

exhausting).

Apart from the fact that this issue affects dads too, I couldn't have

put it better myself, it's all a matter of equal opportunities. Many

of the vegan mums I know would be really the most wonderful and

valuable contributors to the vegan movement if they were encouraged

and trained in getting involved in promoting veganism, for instance

within schools, playgroups and other places where parents and

children are to be found. I believe that there is such huge potential

for families to contribute to the promotion of veganism and making it

mainstream.

No-one in paid work would be expected to accept never having time off

at an evening or a weekend to do their own thing, so why should

parents be forced to accept this situation, every weekend of the year

and every evening of the year for many years?

No-one who is doing probably the hardest job in the world with the

longest hours should be treated with such disrespect, parents deserve

better and kids deserve better, because parents are able to do a far

better job of taking good care of their children if they have some

respite time for themselves, and can feel refreshed and rested and

feel that they have met some of their own needs for a change.

We don't ask for very much time off together, a few hours once a

month would be nice though.

 

I get so fed up of explaining this very basic need for " time off for

parents " to non-parents (I would never have found it so hard to

understand and always saw it as a reasonable provision before I had

children of my own, it was obvious to me that parents had their own

needs as people and I did babysit occasionally before I had my own

children). The fact is most parents need their own time for the sake

of their own sanity, in order to be happy and so as to be good

parents. How many people could do their paid job properly without

proper time off? Very few and yet we expect parents to just go on and

on like the Duracell Bunny, even on very little sleep a lot of the

time. I get so snappy with the kids when I go for months on end

without any actual quality time together with Paul, this weekend I

have been the mother from hell because of the anxiety associated with

suddenly finding out that we will not have our AGM time when we can

leave the kids in the creche, which is on my birthday too, because

the prospect of having to possibly cause a disruption and upset

people in order to get our point across actually causes me such great

anxiety. It is not easy for me to have to cause a confrontation even

when I know I am in the right! It is very embarrassing and upsetting

to have to make a fuss, but it is because I believe so strongly in

the potential for contribution to the Vegan Society and the future of

veganism that vegan families can make, that I have to take a public

stand at the AGM for parents' right to participate fully. This stress

on me is not fair to the kids, but I am so upset for myself too, as

the AGM is the one time we have always had some time to participate

in something without one or other of the children disturbing us. It

doesn't even matter if the AGM is a bit boring (that can actually be

relaxing for parents with the kids safely in the creche), and

sometimes there is some interesting discussion, and even if there is

quite heated discussion it is still our choice whether to get

involved or not, and it is still much more relaxing than to have to

constantly attend to the kids' demands. You seem to get it Edith, how

extreme the stress can be on parents. It is indeed a shame that Cathy

doesn't get it but some people are just somewhat empathically

challenged I suppose, unless the one they are expected to empathise

with is a non-human animal.

 

I was really looking forward to the social after the AGM, with the

kids of course, as the creche only ever covers the actual AGM itself,

but now I am wondering if anyone will even be speaking to me or Paul

by the time the AGM is over (because of the noise our kids might make

in there) so I can't even be sure I have anything pleasant to look

forward to!

 

Thanks Edith, wish you would be there to support us when we get

booted out! I really don't want us to be booted out but I could see

it happening, from previous experience with London Vegans.

 

Lesley

 

 

, " slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

> " slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

> >I would like to say how much I disagree with everything Leslie says

> >but I can't.

>

> >>Why not?

>

>

> Because, dear cleverthingies, either the Veg Soc should provide a

creche so

> EVERYONE can go to the AGM (if it matters) or everyone with kids

should

> bring them along and annoy the ass off those people who think

mothers are

> second class vegans!

>

> Enough said.

>

> Slg

>

>

>

>

> _______________

> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

[Guest guest]

, " slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

> " slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

> >I would like to say how much I disagree with everything Leslie says

> >but I can't.

>

> >>Why not?

>

>

> Because, dear cleverthingies, either the Veg Soc should provide a

creche so

> EVERYONE can go to the AGM (if it matters) or everyone with kids

should

> bring them along and annoy the ass off those people who think

mothers are

> second class vegans!

 

 

 

Oh, I see. I thought perhaps it was because Michael won't let you

say f*ck.

 

As you know, I think that people should provide their own childcare.

No such thing as a second class citizen/vegan. But why should

everyone else pay for people's decision to breed? Maybe Leslie could

volunteer to pay the cost of a qualified childminder for the day?

 

Cleverwhatever.

xx

[Guest guest]

cathyjupp wrote:

>

> , " slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

> > " slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

> > >I would like to say how much I disagree with everything Leslie says

> > >but I can't.

> >

> > >>Why not?

> >

> >

> > Because, dear cleverthingies, either the Veg Soc should provide a

> creche so

> > EVERYONE can go to the AGM (if it matters) or everyone with kids

> should

> > bring them along and annoy the ass off those people who think

> mothers are

> > second class vegans!

>

> Oh, I see. I thought perhaps it was because Michael won't let you

> say f*ck.

>

> As you know, I think that people should provide their own childcare.

> No such thing as a second class citizen/vegan. But why should

> everyone else pay for people's decision to breed? Maybe Leslie could

> volunteer to pay the cost of a qualified childminder for the day?

>

> Cleverwhatever.

> xx

 

In principle, I could point to anything I need to do (work on my

business, say) that makes it hard to get to the AGM and expect other

people to pay for it. But the fact is that childminding is different -

without families, society (in general, not the vegan society) has no

future, so society makes special allowances and provision for families.

 

On the other hand, creches in these regulated times are expensive things

and it might simply and sadly not be worth the cost. (BTW, contrary to

what Lesley said, families pay no more in membership than households w/o

children.) I don't know the numbers, so can't make the call.

[Guest guest]

Ahh, but Cathy cleverboots would clearly be happy enough if no-one

had children, and for there to be no human future, because she

singlemindedly cares for animals, so that is probably why she is not

in favour of society's quite reasonable special provisions and

allowances for families, which seem to be getting eroded at every

turn already. She wants it made even harder for people to cope with

having children, and so fewer poeple will have them, can you see

that? Our birth rate is well down below replacement level already

because there is so little support for families, with many of us

nowhere near to any extended family support, and no halfway adequate

low cost, short notice, easily accessible childcare provision to

replace that.

 

Since she does not believe in investing in supporting those who are

raising the next generation, maybe she will just lay down and die

when she gets old and frail and not expect the younger generation to

care for her or have any respect for her, as she had no consideration

for them and their parents. Society has to work both ways supporting

both the young and old, so that the immediate family who cannot

always do it all, do not have to try to take on the total burden, and

some day Cathy might be glad that someone young shows her more human

compassion than she has shown for the likes of them or their parents.

 

What she shortsightedly fails to see is that if vegan-raised children

grow up with an unfriendly impression of the vegan movement, if they

see their parents struggling for acceptance and are not embraced and

welcomed wholeheartedly by the movement, they will not grow up to

feel a part of it and will be less likely to remain vegan.

 

She shortsightedly fails to see the importance of the role of vegan

parents in bringing veganism to the mainstream of society.

I despair and worry that my children are treated so much better by

animal eaters than they are by vegans in general and other than us,

have only people to relate to who are not even veggie.

 

The Vegan Society occasionally show some sparks of family awareness,

such as the new kids page by Bronwyn and Aisha in the magazine btw,

and my daughter has written in and drawn a picture of a sad cow whose

baby has been taken away by the nasty farmer!

My daughter also tells off other kids at school when they

deliberately squash daddy long legs insects for fun.

 

I want us as a whole family to feel like part of the vegan community,

when is this going to happen? Never with attitudes like Cathy's.

I felt much more part of it before I had kids, and I am still the

same old me, I don't think I have changed that much deep down, just

gained family reponsibilities.

 

I understand the cost but since the membership were in favour and it

should be only about £200, it should be no problem.

 

Lesley

 

 

, Ian McDonald <ian@m...> wrote:

>

>

> cathyjupp wrote:

> >

> > , " slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

> > > " slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

> > > >I would like to say how much I disagree with everything Leslie

says

> > > >but I can't.

> > >

> > > >>Why not?

> > >

> > >

> > > Because, dear cleverthingies, either the Veg Soc should provide

a

> > creche so

> > > EVERYONE can go to the AGM (if it matters) or everyone with kids

> > should

> > > bring them along and annoy the ass off those people who think

> > mothers are

> > > second class vegans!

> >

> > Oh, I see. I thought perhaps it was because Michael won't let you

> > say f*ck.

> >

> > As you know, I think that people should provide their own

childcare.

> > No such thing as a second class citizen/vegan. But why should

> > everyone else pay for people's decision to breed? Maybe Leslie

could

> > volunteer to pay the cost of a qualified childminder for the day?

> >

> > Cleverwhatever.

> > xx

>

> In principle, I could point to anything I need to do (work on my

> business, say) that makes it hard to get to the AGM and expect other

> people to pay for it. But the fact is that childminding is

different -

> without families, society (in general, not the vegan society) has no

> future, so society makes special allowances and provision for

families.

>

> On the other hand, creches in these regulated times are expensive

things

> and it might simply and sadly not be worth the cost. (BTW, contrary

to

> what Lesley said, families pay no more in membership than

households w/o

> children.) I don't know the numbers, so can't make the call.

[Guest guest]

Much as I empathise with your rant Lesley, it probably comes down to

the fact that nobody has volunteered to do the creche. The Vegan

Society is, AFAIK, a financialy unsupported organisation that

doesnt get grants to fund creches, so if nobody comes forward to do

it voluntarily, it won't happen, No amount of ranting that 'it's not

fair' will change that fact, positive ideas are called for, not

blame and name calling.

[Guest guest]

What is the legal position with creches? I wouldn't be surprised if

it is pretty much the same as everywhere else, ie, anybody working

with children in any context, voluntary or otherwise, needs to be

police-checked (a process which takes upwards of 3 months, and that

you have to pay ten pounds for the 'priviledge' of having somebody

rake through your criminal record, including your bind overs for

breach of the peace whist out sabbing). Could be that we are living

in a time of cultural hysteria, but if I either was a Vegan Society

organiser, or a potential volunteer, I'd veer on the side of

caution...

 

Constructive solutions, rather than 'why oh why', please, on a

postcard to the Vegan Society...

[Guest guest]

, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

>

it

> should be only about £200, it should be no problem.

>

> Lesley

 

That's only about £67 for each of your children and you've already

said that you consider your husband to be overpaid, so no, it

shouldn't be a problem for you to put your hand into your own pocket

instead of other peoples'.

 

Cathy

[Guest guest]

They have enough money for reasonable expenses and paid for it before.

 

Lesley

 

, " quercusrobur2002 " <grahamburnett@b...> wrote:

> Much as I empathise with your rant Lesley, it probably comes down

to

> the fact that nobody has volunteered to do the creche. The Vegan

> Society is, AFAIK, a financialy unsupported organisation that

> doesnt get grants to fund creches, so if nobody comes forward to do

> it voluntarily, it won't happen, No amount of ranting that 'it's

not

> fair' will change that fact, positive ideas are called for, not

> blame and name calling.

[Guest guest]

, " cathyjupp " <cj@r...> wrote:

> , " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

> >

> it

> > should be only about £200, it should be no problem.

> >

> > Lesley

>

> That's only about £67 for each of your children and you've already

> said that you consider your husband to be overpaid, so no, it

> shouldn't be a problem for you to put your hand into your own

pocket

> instead of other peoples'.

>

> Cathy

 

Did I ever say my husband had not offered them the money to keep it

going?

 

Lesley

[Guest guest]

, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

 

 

> > > should be only about £200, it should be no problem.

> > > Lesley

>

> Did I ever say my husband had not offered them the money to keep it

> going?

>

> Lesley

 

 

Well if he has then your suggestion (above) that money was the issue

is clearly illogical.

 

I wonder why it is that they are refusing to allow a creche that

would be organised and paid for by one of their members? Lack of

facilities maybe?

 

Cathy

[Guest guest]

You are so good at constructive solutions, what would yours be?

People who become parents don't need police checks after all and yet

we often have sole charge of our children in the early years with no

help at all, and I am certainly of the opinion that there is a

climate of cultural hysteria. It is still, despite the handful of

high profile cases in the media, very rare for children to be

abducted and murdered, I heard it was statistically rarer than it

used to be in the days when there was less awareness and less

hysteria. That does not stop me being quite overprotective and my 9

year old has still not been allowed to venture to the park on his

own, for fear of who might be around, but I would instinctively tend

to trust people I thought of as friends to look after my kids from

time to time, without all this police-checking formality! In my

opinion, if the extreme strictness of the law makes it harder to

arrange even just a couple of hours of on-site childcare for a

meeting, then it is a bad and unworkable law, which instead of

protecting children, just makes life harder for parents.

 

Lesley - the voice of reason

 

, " quercusrobur2002 " <grahamburnett@b...> wrote:

> What is the legal position with creches? I wouldn't be surprised if

> it is pretty much the same as everywhere else, ie, anybody working

> with children in any context, voluntary or otherwise, needs to be

> police-checked (a process which takes upwards of 3 months, and that

> you have to pay ten pounds for the 'priviledge' of having somebody

> rake through your criminal record, including your bind overs for

> breach of the peace whist out sabbing). Could be that we are living

> in a time of cultural hysteria, but if I either was a Vegan Society

> organiser, or a potential volunteer, I'd veer on the side of

> caution...

>

> Constructive solutions, rather than 'why oh why', please, on a

> postcard to the Vegan Society...

[Guest guest]

They would have to organise it as with previous years, but he did say

that he was willing to pay to keep it going if necessary, and they

did not approach him to say they were no longer prepared to fund it,

and did he want to pay for it. Maybe they forgot about his ongoing

offer. I find such incompetence almost as worrying as actual malice

against vegans who have children, and at this stage we assume

incompetence, until my husband has got some answers out of council

members as to why he was not approached.

 

They just have some regular local creche workers brought in, no

problem with facilities, plenty of room at Conway Hall, never been a

problem before.

 

Lesley

 

, " cathyjupp " <cj@r...> wrote:

> , " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

>

>

> > > > should be only about £200, it should be no problem.

> > > > Lesley

> >

> > Did I ever say my husband had not offered them the money to keep

it

> > going?

> >

> > Lesley

>

>

> Well if he has then your suggestion (above) that money was the

issue

> is clearly illogical.

>

> I wonder why it is that they are refusing to allow a creche that

> would be organised and paid for by one of their members? Lack of

> facilities maybe?

>

> Cathy

[Guest guest]

The Vegan Society never bother to ask via their magazine for creche

volunteers, and yet it always used to run fine with volunteers as I

recall. I was one of the volunteers in '88 with other London Vegan

people in the days when some of them were more family-friendly.

I'm interested in positive ideas but the Vegan Society won't take the

trouble to ask the members to help!

 

Lesley

 

, " quercusrobur2002 " <grahamburnett@b...> wrote:

> Much as I empathise with your rant Lesley, it probably comes down

to

> the fact that nobody has volunteered to do the creche. The Vegan

> Society is, AFAIK, a financialy unsupported organisation that

> doesnt get grants to fund creches, so if nobody comes forward to do

> it voluntarily, it won't happen, No amount of ranting that 'it's

not

> fair' will change that fact, positive ideas are called for, not

> blame and name calling.

[Guest guest]

Have you phoned The Vegan Society to discuss it with them? Maybe they aren't aware of how you feel??? It may be more constructive to air your views with them? Just a suggestion ...

 

Janey

 

The Vegan Society never bother to ask via their magazine for creche volunteers, and yet it always used to run fine with volunteers as I recall. I was one of the volunteers in '88 with other London Vegan people in the days when some of them were more family-friendly.I'm interested in positive ideas but the Vegan Society won't take the trouble to ask the members to help!Lesley

[Guest guest]

My husband is emailing several council members today about it.

 

Lesley

 

, " Janey " <janey@p...> wrote:

> Have you phoned The Vegan Society to discuss it with them? Maybe

they aren't aware of how you feel??? It may be more constructive to

air your views with them? Just a suggestion ...

>

> Janey

>

>

> The Vegan Society never bother to ask via their magazine for

creche

> volunteers, and yet it always used to run fine with volunteers as

I

> recall. I was one of the volunteers in '88 with other London

Vegan

> people in the days when some of them were more family-friendly.

> I'm interested in positive ideas but the Vegan Society won't take

the

> trouble to ask the members to help!

>

> Lesley

[Guest guest]

, " cathyjupp " <cj@r...> wrote:

> , " slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

> > " slg edith " <slgedith@h...> wrote:

> > >I would like to say how much I disagree with everything Leslie

says

> > >but I can't.

> >

> > >>Why not?

> >

> >

> > Because, dear cleverthingies, either the Veg Soc should provide a

> creche so

> > EVERYONE can go to the AGM (if it matters) or everyone with kids

> should

> > bring them along and annoy the ass off those people who think

> mothers are

> > second class vegans!

>

>

>

> Oh, I see. I thought perhaps it was because Michael won't let you

> say f*ck.

>

> As you know, I think that people should provide their own

childcare.

> No such thing as a second class citizen/vegan. But why should

> everyone else pay for people's decision to breed? Maybe Leslie

could

> volunteer to pay the cost of a qualified childminder for the day?

>

> Cleverwhatever.

> xx

 

Why should my husband have to pay ridiculous amounts of money for me

and him to have some time off together? He is willing to pay it but

only because he can, bear in mind that not all parents can afford to,

should they get no breaks then? Do you have to pay to have time off

for yourself from work? Why should poor parents have to find the

money to pay for time off? It should be a right not a privilege.

And have you any idea how little money parents get in child benefit?

It's a total joke.

As for breeding being a choice, it is not always the case. What would

you do if you had an accidental pregnancy and did not know you were

pregnant until it was too late even by your own pro-choice standards

to abort it (ie, I would guess once it got to the developmental stage

where you were sure it was a sentient being)? Some mothers don't even

know they are pregnant until really late on.

Just wondering, because unless you are celibate, you could

accidentally breed yourself, and then I can guarantee you would be

the first one whinging about the lack of supportive friends and

family to babysit so that you and Steve can both have some time to do

your own thing.

Or would you place it for adoption, and not accept any responsibility

for your own child? What would Steve want to do? I'm curious how a

militant childfree like you would handle accidentally becoming a

mother, and if you would feel differently if you were thrust into the

position of having very few options, a position I feel my husband and

I have been in these last few years.

I feel that we have simply struggled to handle having three children,

the last one unplanned, the best we can, and because our old friends

obviously had your kind of attitude, it has had to be without much

help from anyone, other than the school system.

 

Lesley

[Guest guest]

> Don't forget fathers too! If it comes down to it, Paul will look

> after the kids and I can go to occasional meetings and events on my

> own, but why should one or other of us (not always me) ALWAYS be

> forced to miss out just because we are parents?

 

Errrrm... but you're not *always* forced to miss out... didn't you say this

was the first year for several years without the creche ?

 

Steve W

[Guest guest]

, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

>

> You are so good at constructive solutions, what would yours be?

> People who become parents don't need police checks after all and

yet

> we often have sole charge of our children in the early years with

no

> help at all, and I am certainly of the opinion that there is a

> climate of cultural hysteria.

 

Well it so happens that I agree with you. But it doesn't matter what

I *think*, the fact is that we are currently living in a time of

paranoia and compensation culture, and everybody is covering their

backs at the moment.

 

I wonder why the firm that previously did the creeche had to cease

trading? I wouldn't be surprised if it was for either the police

checks reason, or having their public liability insurance premiuims

escalated to unaffordable levels, as is happening following the

recent series of accidents on school trips, etc.

[Guest guest]

We have been forced to miss out socially and on an awful lot of other

events such as London Vegans meetings because no-one helps with

childcare, and this just adds insult to injury.

Besides we intend to go and have the kids in the meeting with us and

have no intention of letting the anti-parents brigade force us out.

 

Lesley

 

, " Steve Welburn " <@s...> wrote:

> > Don't forget fathers too! If it comes down to it, Paul will look

> > after the kids and I can go to occasional meetings and events on

my

> > own, but why should one or other of us (not always me) ALWAYS be

> > forced to miss out just because we are parents?

>

> Errrrm... but you're not *always* forced to miss out... didn't you

say this

> was the first year for several years without the creche ?

>

> Steve W

[Guest guest]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if the regulations had made the business

unworkable, anyway I just emailed the organisers of the Anarchist

Bookfair as I noticed that they have a professionally run creche for

their event, so I have asked them who they use. I know you think I

moan a lot, but I am also willing to do constructive things to try

and solve the problem, even if too late for this year, for future

years AGMs.

 

Lesley

 

 

, " quercusrobur2002 " <grahamburnett@b...> wrote:

> , " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

> >

> > You are so good at constructive solutions, what would yours be?

> > People who become parents don't need police checks after all and

> yet

> > we often have sole charge of our children in the early years with

> no

> > help at all, and I am certainly of the opinion that there is a

> > climate of cultural hysteria.

>

> Well it so happens that I agree with you. But it doesn't matter

what

> I *think*, the fact is that we are currently living in a time of

> paranoia and compensation culture, and everybody is covering their

> backs at the moment.

>

> I wonder why the firm that previously did the creeche had to cease

> trading? I wouldn't be surprised if it was for either the police

> checks reason, or having their public liability insurance premiuims

> escalated to unaffordable levels, as is happening following the

> recent series of accidents on school trips, etc.