Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 On 7/10/02 10:06 am, " Cathy Jupp (BR) " <cjbr wrote: It is being alleged on a vegan email list that the Vegan Society is refusing to have a creche at its AGM, despite the fact that a member has offered to pay for it. I would be interested to know if this is true, and if so, the Society's reasons for this decision. Many thanks Cathy Jupp Dear Cathy The Vegan Society has run a creche for many years at its AGM but the maximum take up has never exceeded 6 children; last year there were just two children. I would hope everyone can appreciate that the elected Trustees of the Vegan Society have to decide whether spending nearly £200 of the charity's hard-pressed resources is well-spent in providing a creche at the AGM. This year because ISIS, the previous creche providers, have ceased trading and because of the lack of demand year on year, the Trustees decided against organising a creche. Kind regards Rick Savage Chief Executive – Vegan Society Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 cathyjupp wrote: > <Rick Savage snipped> Thanks, Cathy. That's exactly what we need to know to be able to consider the issue in a balanced way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Thanks for sharing Cathy. Janey x - cathyjupp Monday, October 07, 2002 12:27 PM The vegan society has its say. On 7/10/02 10:06 am, "Cathy Jupp (BR)" <cjbr wrote:It is being alleged on a vegan email list that the Vegan Society is refusing to have a creche at its AGM, despite the fact that a member has offered to pay for it. I would be interested to know if this is true, and if so, the Society's reasons for this decision.Many thanksCathy JuppDear CathyThe Vegan Society has run a creche for many years at its AGM but the maximum take up has never exceeded 6 children; last year there were just two children. I would hope everyone can appreciate that the elected Trustees of the Vegan Society have to decide whether spending nearly £200 of the charity's hard-pressed resources is well-spent in providing a creche at the AGM. This year because ISIS, the previous creche providers, have ceased trading and because of the lack of demand year on year, the Trustees decided against organising a creche.Kind regardsRick SavageChief Executive – Vegan Society~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 , Ian McDonald <ian@m...> wrote: > > > cathyjupp wrote: > > > <Rick Savage snipped> > > Thanks, Cathy. That's exactly what we need to know to be able to > consider the issue in a balanced way. Yes, thanks to Cathy for showing the CEO of the Vegan Society to be not a million miles from Michael Howard in his penchant for dodging the actual question, you know the one about my husband's ongoing offer to actually PAY the £200. Tell ya what, I'll be Jeremy Paxman! Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 > Lesley Dove > > Yes, thanks to Cathy for showing the CEO of the Vegan Society to be > not a million miles from Michael Howard in his penchant for dodging > the actual question, you know the one about my husband's ongoing > offer to actually PAY the £200. Tell ya what, I'll be Jeremy Paxman! > Errrm... No dodging the question, he said there weren't enough people affected by it... 2 kids using the creche that's errrm... a maximum of 4 people not at the AGM without it... and a cost of £100 per kid to do a creche. Why not just arrange it yourself outside the auspices of the Vegan Soc ? Arrange a creche for that day somewhere nearby and let people know it's running ? Steve W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 > > Why not just arrange it yourself outside the auspices of the Vegan Soc ? > > Arrange a creche for that day somewhere nearby and let people know it's > running ? > > Steve W There's a nice little park right outside the Conway Hall, why not arrange one of your vegan picnics for the kids? There y'go, there's one positive idea already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 , " Steve Welburn " <@s...> wrote: > Why not just arrange it yourself outside the auspices of the Vegan Soc ? > > Arrange a creche for that day somewhere nearby and let people know > it's running ? This sounds like a good idea, and I would have thought it would be cheaper than £200. Isn't this what you would have to do on other occasions, like going to the cinema, restaurant etc without taking your children with you? -- Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Picnics are fine for whole families, but as we are looking for someone else to take care of them while the parents attend the AGM, who do you suggest to take them for the picnic? Lesley , " quercusrobur2002 " <grahamburnett@b...> wrote: > > > > > Why not just arrange it yourself outside the auspices of the Vegan > Soc ? > > > > Arrange a creche for that day somewhere nearby and let people know > it's > > running ? > > > > Steve W > > There's a nice little park right outside the Conway Hall, why not > arrange one of your vegan picnics for the kids? > > There y'go, there's one positive idea already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 The only time we get out without them is when grandparents visit and look after them for a few hours (a very rare occurrence). Since having the baby we cannot find anyone who can babysit all three. Our last babysitter had a bad back and cannot cope with the baby as well as the other two. Lesley , " spacevegan " <rob@z...> wrote: > , " Steve Welburn " <@s...> wrote: > > Why not just arrange it yourself outside the auspices of the Vegan > Soc ? > > > > Arrange a creche for that day somewhere nearby and let people know > > it's running ? > > This sounds like a good idea, and I would have thought it would be > cheaper than £200. Isn't this what you would have to do on other > occasions, like going to the cinema, restaurant etc without taking > your children with you? > > -- > Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 I'm not going to the AGM and have never been before. Am I missing out on something - sounds like it???! Janey Picnics are fine for whole families, but as we are looking for someone else to take care of them while the parents attend the AGM, who do you suggest to take them for the picnic?Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Sometimes it's really boring, other times something interesting gets discussed, no prizes for guessing what one of the dominant topics is likely to be on this occasion. My husband is getting well-prepared to speak up for vegan parents and the way that by removing the creche, our important role in bringing veganism into mainstream life such as schools and playgroups is being underestimated and undervalued. I seriously like to go almost every year even if it is a bit boring sometimes, it's just nice and quite relaxing for us both to sit and take part in a meeting with other vegans without having to worry about the kids for once, and we look forward to socialising afterwards. We also go in order to make sure there is some demand for the creche, so that is not removed, so that more vegan families will be persuaded to get involved, because I believe that vegan families are so much of key importance to getting veganism into mainstream life. Lesley , " Janey " <janey@p...> wrote: > I'm not going to the AGM and have never been before. Am I missing out on something - sounds like it???! > > Janey > > > > Picnics are fine for whole families, but as we are looking for > someone else to take care of them while the parents attend the AGM, > who do you suggest to take them for the picnic? > > Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 I'm not a member of the vegan society and I have no children so please continue to ignore me, but... Maybe the Vegan Society should talk to it's members rather than relying on someone on a mailing list having to ask them in response to something someone said on the internet? I would also think that if the organization had taken a vote on the running of a creche they should take the issue back to the members and put it to another vote citing the new circumstances and allowing the members to make up their own mind? Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 >We also go in order to make sure there is some demand for the creche, >so that is not removed, so that more vegan families will be persuaded >to get involved, because I believe that vegan families are so much of >key importance to getting veganism into mainstream life. From that it appears that the only issue facing vegan families at this AGM is the need for a cheche so that vegan families can get involved in the ensuring that there is a creche...? Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Yes, this bit about talking to members is one of the points I raised today in an email to the CEO and others on council, that they could have just TALKED to me and I would have made enquiries about alternatives to the creche that had ceased. If none of them had the time to investigate new creche providers in London, fair enough, but they need to learn to delegate to people not on council who are known to have a particular interest. Quite simply they have a communication problem. The solution might have been simple but they didn't even try the obvious! I also agree that it should have been put to the vote at this AGM or the last one even, if they were considering not running the creche any more. Lesley , Mavreela <nec.lists@m...> wrote: > I'm not a member of the vegan society and I have no children so please > continue to ignore me, but... > > Maybe the Vegan Society should talk to it's members rather than relying on > someone on a mailing list having to ask them in response to something > someone said on the internet? > > I would also think that if the organization had taken a vote on the running > of a creche they should take the issue back to the members and put it to > another vote citing the new circumstances and allowing the members to make > up their own mind? > > Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 No not at all, we think parents are likely to be interested generally in being involved in their Vegan Society, but first we have to convince the Vegan Society council of the need for a creche to be a definite commitment (we thought we had succeeded in that already actually). Lesley , Mavreela <nec.lists@m...> wrote: > > >We also go in order to make sure there is some demand for the creche, > >so that is not removed, so that more vegan families will be persuaded > >to get involved, because I believe that vegan families are so much of > >key importance to getting veganism into mainstream life. > > From that it appears that the only issue facing vegan families at this AGM > is the need for a cheche so that vegan families can get involved in the > ensuring that there is a creche...? > > Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 , " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote: > > Yes, this bit about talking to members is one of the points I raised > today in an email to the CEO and others on council, that they could > have just TALKED to me and I would have made enquiries about > alternatives to the creche that had ceased. If none of them had the > time to investigate new creche providers in London, fair enough, but > they need to learn to delegate to people not on council who are known > to have a particular interest. > Quite simply they have a communication problem. The solution might > have been simple but they didn't even try the obvious! Doesn't that work both ways? Couldn't you have talked to the vegan society and worked towards a resolution with some positive suggestions rather than posting all this stuff here about anti-vegan parent prejudice and generally getting everyone in a lather, which actually doesn't do anything constructive or solve the situation but just causes division and friction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 >Doesn't that work both ways? Couldn't you have talked to the vegan >society and worked towards a resolution with some positive >suggestions... If someone acts unilaterally is it really 'going both ways' to then say to them " why can't we discuss it first? " Michael (who does go both ways) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 But didn't Rick Savage imply that no one really wanted the creche? Are you the only ones who have asked? Is there no one you could ask at home so that you and Paul could go to the AGM on your own without having to worry about a creche? I understand why you and Paul want to go and I agree that it is refreshing to go to an event purely for vegans (as I found out at the festival last week!) but its a shame that the creche issue is spoiling it for you. Janey Sometimes it's really boring, other times something interesting gets discussed, no prizes for guessing what one of the dominant topics is likely to be on this occasion. My husband is getting well-prepared to speak up for vegan parents and the way that by removing the creche, our important role in bringing veganism into mainstream life such as schools and playgroups is being underestimated and undervalued. I seriously like to go almost every year even if it is a bit boring sometimes, it's just nice and quite relaxing for us both to sit and take part in a meeting with other vegans without having to worry about the kids for once, and we look forward to socialising afterwards.We also go in order to make sure there is some demand for the creche, so that is not removed, so that more vegan families will be persuaded to get involved, because I believe that vegan families are so much of key importance to getting veganism into mainstream life.Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Fair point Michael. :-) Janey I'm not a member of the vegan society and I have no children so please continue to ignore me, but...Maybe the Vegan Society should talk to it's members rather than relying on someone on a mailing list having to ask them in response to something someone said on the internet?I would also think that if the organization had taken a vote on the running of a creche they should take the issue back to the members and put it to another vote citing the new circumstances and allowing the members to make up their own mind?Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 or tie them to the American Embassy with a banner saying "Don't kill our brothers and sisters - Bush get out of our hair" you could pick them up from the station later... spacevegan [rob]This sounds like a good idea, and I would have thought it would be cheaper than £200. Isn't this what you would have to do on other occasions, like going to the cinema, restaurant etc without taking your children with you?--Rob~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard.---------------------------Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline>Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 So we'd heard... Viv "You'll Never Walk Alone with a Basenji" www.veganvillage.co.uk www.vegansociety.com Mavreela [nec.lists]Monday, October 07, 2002 8:31 PM Subject: Re: Re: The vegan society has its say.Michael (who does go both ways) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 Lesley (and others!) I have been reading all the messages (!) and feel that it is really important that Vegan families are encouraged and supported in every way. I do hope that the AGM this time will have a separate item headed 'Creche' and will actively discuss ways of providing a creche (and let those members present have their say - although there may not be time for all that!) Vegan children are the future, if they continue being raised vegan then hopefully they will carry on and encourage others to do the same. So, on one hand I agree with Rick Savage i.e. that unless the demand is there £200 is a waste of money. On the other hand, unless Vegan Soc members get the chance to actively vote (at the AGM) for/against a creche then where is the democracy? Of course members could vote (but then be outvoted by those who don't support children) So I think the Veg Soc should send out a questionnaire well in advance - say 4 months - asking members if they want a creche - maybe if members have to specify on the membership form whether they are raising children vegan then the Soc can just send out questionnaires to those people? Difficult and confusing situation really as there are so many factors....this is probably a load of old waffle but at least I am not posting 1000 times!! (not meant as a criticism directed at anyone) Regards, Nick Abbott Lesley Dove [Lesley] 07 October 2002 18:08 Re: The vegan society has its say. Sometimes it's really boring, other times something interesting gets discussed, no prizes for guessing what one of the dominant topics is likely to be on this occasion. My husband is getting well-prepared to speak up for vegan parents and the way that by removing the creche, our important role in bringing veganism into mainstream life such as schools and playgroups is being underestimated and undervalued. I seriously like to go almost every year even if it is a bit boring sometimes, it's just nice and quite relaxing for us both to sit and take part in a meeting with other vegans without having to worry about the kids for once, and we look forward to socialising afterwards. We also go in order to make sure there is some demand for the creche, so that is not removed, so that more vegan families will be persuaded to get involved, because I believe that vegan families are so much of key importance to getting veganism into mainstream life. Lesley , " Janey " <janey@p...> wrote: > I'm not going to the AGM and have never been before. Am I missing out on something - sounds like it???! > > Janey > > > > Picnics are fine for whole families, but as we are looking for > someone else to take care of them while the parents attend the AGM, > who do you suggest to take them for the picnic? > > Lesley ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, there may be another side to the story you have not heard. --------------------------- Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> Un: send a blank message to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 Like Michael said, they acted unilaterally, moved the goalposts all of a sudden after telling us just a few years ago that the creche was secure and would be funded by them. They didn't give us the opportunity to look into positive solutions, did not let us know anything had changed, and now it may be too late for this year, because we were kept in the dark. As far as I knew there was no problem to resolve until I found out on Saturday! Am I meant to mind read now as well? Lesley , " quercusrobur2002 " <grahamburnett@b...> wrote: > , " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote: > > > > Yes, this bit about talking to members is one of the points I > raised > > today in an email to the CEO and others on council, that they could > > have just TALKED to me and I would have made enquiries about > > alternatives to the creche that had ceased. If none of them had the > > time to investigate new creche providers in London, fair enough, > but > > they need to learn to delegate to people not on council who are > known > > to have a particular interest. > > Quite simply they have a communication problem. The solution might > > have been simple but they didn't even try the obvious! > > Doesn't that work both ways? Couldn't you have talked to the vegan > society and worked towards a resolution with some positive > suggestions rather than posting all this stuff here about anti- vegan > parent prejudice and generally getting everyone in a lather, which > actually doesn't do anything constructive or solve the situation but > just causes division and friction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 There really is no-one locally who can look after the kids, as I explained about our last babysitter and her bad back, and besides she would probably not do the whole day. Lesley , " Janey " <janey@p...> wrote: > > But didn't Rick Savage imply that no one really wanted the creche? Are you the only ones who have asked? Is there no one you could ask at home so that you and Paul could go to the AGM on your own without having to worry about a creche? I understand why you and Paul want to go and I agree that it is refreshing to go to an event purely for vegans (as I found out at the festival last week!) but its a shame that the creche issue is spoiling it for you. > > Janey > > > > Sometimes it's really boring, other times something interesting gets > discussed, no prizes for guessing what one of the dominant topics is > likely to be on this occasion. My husband is getting well- prepared to > speak up for vegan parents and the way that by removing the creche, > our important role in bringing veganism into mainstream life such as > schools and playgroups is being underestimated and undervalued. I > seriously like to go almost every year even if it is a bit boring > sometimes, it's just nice and quite relaxing for us both to sit and > take part in a meeting with other vegans without having to worry > about the kids for once, and we look forward to socialising > afterwards. > > We also go in order to make sure there is some demand for the creche, > so that is not removed, so that more vegan families will be persuaded > to get involved, because I believe that vegan families are so much of > key importance to getting veganism into mainstream life. > > Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 Thanks for the support, my hubby and I will be making sure it gets discussed, I worry like crazy that the vegans we know are mostly giving my kids a bad impression of vegans, by their attitude of not having much time for kids. All the people who are nice to our kids, apart from us of course, are meat-eaters, at their school, etc. They need more vegans who are child-friendly in their lives so as to get a positive impression! The vast majority of the Vegan Society council are of course not parents themselves. Lesley , " Nick Abbott " <nabbott@p...> wrote: > Lesley (and others!) > > I have been reading all the messages (!) and feel that it is really > important that Vegan families are encouraged and supported in every way. > > I do hope that the AGM this time will have a separate item headed 'Creche' > and will actively discuss ways of providing a creche (and let those members > present have their say - although there may not be time for all that!) > > Vegan children are the future, if they continue being raised vegan then > hopefully they will carry on and encourage others to do the same. So, on one > hand I agree with Rick Savage i.e. that unless the demand is there £200 is a > waste of money. On the other hand, unless Vegan Soc members get the chance > to actively vote (at the AGM) for/against a creche then where is the > democracy? Of course members could vote (but then be outvoted by those who > don't support children) So I think the Veg Soc should send out a > questionnaire well in advance - say 4 months - asking members if they want a > creche - maybe if members have to specify on the membership form whether > they are raising children vegan then the Soc can just send out > questionnaires to those people? Difficult and confusing situation really as > there are so many factors....this is probably a load of old waffle but at > least I am not posting 1000 times!! (not meant as a criticism directed at > anyone) > > Regards, > > Nick Abbott > > > Lesley Dove [Lesley@v...] > 07 October 2002 18:08 > > Re: The vegan society has its say. > > > > Sometimes it's really boring, other times something interesting gets > discussed, no prizes for guessing what one of the dominant topics is > likely to be on this occasion. My husband is getting well-prepared to > speak up for vegan parents and the way that by removing the creche, > our important role in bringing veganism into mainstream life such as > schools and playgroups is being underestimated and undervalued. I > seriously like to go almost every year even if it is a bit boring > sometimes, it's just nice and quite relaxing for us both to sit and > take part in a meeting with other vegans without having to worry > about the kids for once, and we look forward to socialising > afterwards. > > We also go in order to make sure there is some demand for the creche, > so that is not removed, so that more vegan families will be persuaded > to get involved, because I believe that vegan families are so much of > key importance to getting veganism into mainstream life. > > Lesley > > , " Janey " <janey@p...> wrote: > > I'm not going to the AGM and have never been before. Am I missing > out on something - sounds like it???! > > > > Janey > > > > > > > > Picnics are fine for whole families, but as we are looking for > > someone else to take care of them while the parents attend the AGM, > > who do you suggest to take them for the picnic? > > > > Lesley > > > > ~~ info ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Please remember that the above is only the opinion of the author, > there may be another side to the story you have not heard. > --------------------------- > Was this message Off Topic? Did you know? Was it snipped? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Guidelines: visit <site temporarily offline> > Un: send a blank message to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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